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Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Keith Murphy
    This is not at all core FSP infrastructure, but simply a private email list. It isn t even run off the FSP server, but instead is run off of the Yahoo
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
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      This is not at all "core" FSP infrastructure, but simply a private
      email list. It isn't even run off the FSP server, but instead is run
      off of the Yahoo servers. It would be like a Sierra Club member
      operating a yahoo group for like-minded environmentalists. Surely
      501(c)3 doesn't prohibit members of organizations PRIVATELY supporting
      certain legislation or candidates. As long as FSP resources (which
      doesn't include this list) aren't used to further candidates or
      legislation then we should be fine.

      Nevertheless, to avert the perceived conflict, I will not post anything
      else related to campaigns or legislation to this list. Have a good
      day.


      On Apr 1, 2004, at 3:47 AM, simplulo wrote:

      > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
      > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
      > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which is
      > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care what
      > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
      > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is not
      > an FSP function.
      >
      > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
      > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally doing
      > everything we can to recruit new members.
    • Adam W. Gonnerman
      I disagree wholeheartedly. Individual members can use the contacts we ve made for political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP and the FSP can
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
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        I disagree wholeheartedly. Individual members can use the contacts we've made for political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP and the FSP can report on it as an update on member activity without violating the beast's tax law. Yes, we should and are seeking new members, but we also want our future home to be as worth moving to as possible. Some have already made the move, others will soon and some of us will be a little longer. Should those who are there do nothing? And what about us who are in temporary exile out here?

        Adam G.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: simplulo [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
        Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2004 08:47 AM
        To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

        Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
        try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
        501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which is
        to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care what
        happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
        and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is not
        an FSP function.

        Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
        editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally doing
        everything we can to recruit new members.

        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
        <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
        > OK, here's where we stand on Senate Bill 454:
        >
        > From what I understand, most of the testimony today was in favor
        of the
        > bill -- approximately a dozen FSP members showed up, along with
        > representatives from the NHLA and the LPNH.  The opposition
        continues
        > to be from the NH police chiefs, who are loath to give up their
        power
        > in deciding who is worthy to carry a concealed firearm.  The next
        step
        > is the committee vote, which will likely be held on 23 April.
        >
        > That gives us three more weeks to persuade those that need to be
        > persuaded.  The committee has 21 members, and we need 11 votes to
        pass
        > the motion to give the bill an "ought to pass" label.
        >
        > Eight of the 21 representatives have made it clear that they will
        > either support the bill or oppose it, regardless of our efforts. 
        Those
        > in favor are representatives Bicknell, Welch, and Kennedy.  Those
        > opposed are representatives Robertson, Gilbert, Bemis, Knowles,
        and
        > Callaghan.  WE SHOULD NOT WASTE TIME AND EFFORT WITH THESE
        > REPRESENTATIVES!!!
        >
        > The other thirteen representatives have not yet indicated,
        directly or
        > indirectly, whether they will support or oppose SB 454.  Those
        > representatives are:
        >
        > Tholl (leaning NO)
        > Fesh
        > Nedeau (leaning NO)
        > Weare
        > Fish
        > Oliver
        > Winchell
        > Smith
        > Pentelakos
        > Stevens
        > Jones
        > Berube
        > Movsesian
        >
        > Here's what you can do:  Each of us, every single day for the next
        20
        > days, should send a letter AND an email to each of these
        > representatives.  It can obviously be the same letter and email
        to
        > each.  Your communication should be friendly and informative,
        polite
        > and concise.  At all costs avoid an argumentative, defensive tone. 
        >
        > Please don't make phone calls -- the NHLA has a lobbyist dedicated
        to
        > working this bill with face-to-face contact.  Focus on the
        thirteen
        > undecided representatives -- they will decide whether this bill
        passes
        > or dies. 
        >
        > In the event that you get a response from one of these
        representatives,
        > indicating whether he/she intends to support or oppose the
        legislation,
        > please post it here so the rest of us can adjust our efforts
        > accordingly.  To find the addresses of the members of the
        committee, go
        > here:
        >
        > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/billstatus/commdetails.asp?
        > txtcommcode=H26
        >
        > LET'S GET TO WORK, PEOPLE!!!  TIME TO BE ACTIVISTS!!!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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      • Adam W. Gonnerman
        Keith, Send to me and I ll post anything pertaining to campaigns and legislation in NH on the FSP Christians, FSP States Rights, FSP Believers Church and FSP
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
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          Keith,

          Send to me and I'll post anything pertaining to campaigns and legislation in NH on the FSP Christians, FSP States Rights, FSP Believers Church and FSP Pro-Immigration list (so long as it doesn't directly conflict with the aims of a particular list).

          Adam G.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Keith Murphy [mailto:keithrmurphy@...]
          Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2004 03:07 PM
          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

          This is not at all "core" FSP infrastructure, but simply a private
          email list. It isn't even run off the FSP server, but instead is run
          off of the Yahoo servers. It would be like a Sierra Club member
          operating a yahoo group for like-minded environmentalists. Surely
          501(c)3 doesn't prohibit members of organizations PRIVATELY supporting
          certain legislation or candidates. As long as FSP resources (which
          doesn't include this list) aren't used to further candidates or
          legislation then we should be fine.

          Nevertheless, to avert the perceived conflict, I will not post anything
          else related to campaigns or legislation to this list. Have a good
          day.


          On Apr 1, 2004, at 3:47 AM, simplulo wrote:

          > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
          > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
          > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which is
          > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care what
          > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
          > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is not
          > an FSP function.
          >
          > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
          > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally doing
          > everything we can to recruit new members.




          ------------------------------------------------------------
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          To visit your group on the web, go to:
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        • Steve
          That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the FSP was founded here, and
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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            That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
            origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
            FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
            discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
            tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
            very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
            functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
            at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
            collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
            where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.

            The group moderators
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
            are mostly from the leadership, including directors.

            Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
            group's home page:

            "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
            or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
            mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
            lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
            have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
            almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
            http://forum.freestateproject.org ."

            This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
            list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
            reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
            with them.

            --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
            <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
            > This is not at all "core" FSP infrastructure, but simply a
            private
            > email list. It isn't even run off the FSP server, but instead is
            run
            > off of the Yahoo servers. It would be like a Sierra Club member
            > operating a yahoo group for like-minded environmentalists. Surely
            > 501(c)3 doesn't prohibit members of organizations PRIVATELY
            supporting
            > certain legislation or candidates. As long as FSP resources
            (which
            > doesn't include this list) aren't used to further candidates or
            > legislation then we should be fine.
            >
            > Nevertheless, to avert the perceived conflict, I will not post
            anything
            > else related to campaigns or legislation to this list. Have a
            good
            > day.
            >
            >
            > On Apr 1, 2004, at 3:47 AM, simplulo wrote:
            >
            > > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
            > > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of
            the
            > > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which
            is
            > > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care
            what
            > > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
            > > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is
            not
            > > an FSP function.
            > >
            > > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
            > > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally
            doing
            > > everything we can to recruit new members.
          • Steve
            ... Just not in this Yahoo group, on the FSP web site, or in any way that falsely suggests FSP endorsement.
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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              I agree wholeheartedly:

              >Individual members can use the contacts we've made for
              >political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP

              Just not in this Yahoo group, on the FSP web site, or in any way
              that falsely suggests FSP endorsement.
            • Adam W. Gonnerman
              Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass muster,
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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                Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass muster, Steve?

                Adam G.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
                Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
                tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
                at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.

                The group moderators
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                are mostly from the leadership, including directors.

                Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                group's home page:

                "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                http://forum.freestateproject.org ."

                This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
                list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                with them.
              • Lady Liberty
                on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@burntmail.com ... Steve isn t stifling activism. He s got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3 status
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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                  on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                  wrote:

                  > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                  > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                  > muster, Steve?

                  Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
                  status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
                  might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
                  to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
                  it's obtained.

                  Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
                  the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
                  <cough>

                  Yours for freedom,
                  Lady Liberty

                  "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
                  active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
                  Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                • Philip L. Welch
                  ... Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved? Philip L. Welch
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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                    > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                    > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                    > FSP was founded here

                    Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on
                    freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved?

                    Philip L. Welch
                    http://www.philwelch.net/
                    http://www.PetitionOnline.com/philscar/petition.html


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Alan R. Weiss
                    My dear Adam, Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle activism? All he is saying is not on THIS particular list , and not in a place
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
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                      My dear Adam,

                      Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                      activism?

                      All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                      place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                      indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                      does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                      commitment?

                      Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                      mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                      are. :-)

                      WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                      dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                      term will not be a crisis-issue.

                      OK, fellow Porcupines?

                      With regards to both,

                      Alan R. Weiss
                      Austin
                      Member, FSP



                      --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                      <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                      > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                      an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                      that not pass muster, Steve?
                      >
                      > Adam G.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                      > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                      > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                      >
                      > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                      > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                      > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                      > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                      on
                      > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                      > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                      > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                      links
                      > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                      > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                      > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                      >
                      > The group moderators
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                      > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                      >
                      > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                      > group's home page:
                      >
                      > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                      > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                      > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                      > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                      > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                      > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                      > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                      >
                      > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                      mailing
                      > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                      > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                      > with them.
                    • Tim Condon
                      Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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                        Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
                        State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
                        the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


                        At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                        >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                        >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                        >muster, Steve?
                        >
                        >Adam G.
                        >
                        >-----Original Message-----
                        >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
                        >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                        >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                        >
                        >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                        >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                        >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                        >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
                        >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                        >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                        >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
                        >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                        >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                        >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                        >
                        >The group moderators
                        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                        >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                        >
                        >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                        >group's home page:
                        >
                        >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                        >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                        >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                        >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                        >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                        >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                        >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                        >
                        >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
                        >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                        >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                        >with them.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Adam W. Gonnerman
                        The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                          Adam G.

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                          Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                          My dear Adam,

                          Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                          activism?

                          All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                          place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                          indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                          does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                          commitment?

                          Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                          mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                          are. :-)

                          WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                          dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                          term will not be a crisis-issue.

                          OK, fellow Porcupines?

                          With regards to both,

                          Alan R. Weiss
                          Austin
                          Member, FSP



                          --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                          <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                          > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                          an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                          that not pass muster, Steve?
                          >
                          > Adam G.
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                          > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                          > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                          >
                          > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                          > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                          > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                          > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                          on
                          > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                          > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                          > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                          links
                          > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                          > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                          > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                          >
                          > The group moderators
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                          > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                          >
                          > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                          > group's home page:
                          >
                          > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                          > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                          > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                          > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                          > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                          > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                          > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                          >
                          > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                          mailing
                          > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                          > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                          > with them.



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                        • Oliver Dyer
                          Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
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                            Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                            get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                            sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
                            the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                            you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                            organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
                            501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                            not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

                            Lady Liberty wrote:

                            > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                            > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                            > > muster, Steve?
                            >
                            > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
                            > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
                            > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
                            > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
                            > it's obtained.
                            >
                            > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
                            > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
                            > <cough>
                            >
                            > Yours for freedom,
                            > Lady Liberty
                            >
                            > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
                            > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                            > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
                            > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Rick LaPoint
                            Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

                              On this list?

                              Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

                              Anarchists, denite!

                              rick

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
                              Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
                              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                              The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                              Adam G.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                              Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                              To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                              My dear Adam,

                              Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                              activism?

                              All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                              place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                              indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                              does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                              commitment?

                              Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                              mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                              are. :-)

                              WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                              dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                              term will not be a crisis-issue.

                              OK, fellow Porcupines?

                              With regards to both,

                              Alan R. Weiss
                              Austin
                              Member, FSP



                              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                              <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                              > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                              an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                              that not pass muster, Steve?
                              >
                              > Adam G.
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                              > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                              > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                              > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                              >
                              > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                              > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                              > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                              > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                              on
                              > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                              > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                              > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                              links
                              > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                              > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                              > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                              >
                              > The group moderators
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                              > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                              >
                              > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                              > group's home page:
                              >
                              > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                              > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                              > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                              > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                              > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                              > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                              > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                              >
                              > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                              mailing
                              > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                              > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                              > with them.



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                            • Mary Lou Seymour
                              Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
                                applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
                                email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
                                454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
                                (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
                                always opposed c3, of course.)
                                (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
                                to "look at what's going on now".)

                                On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

                                > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                                > wrote:
                                >
                                > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
                                up
                                > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                                > > that not pass muster, Steve?
                                >
                                > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
                                > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
                                > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
                                requirements
                                > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
                                might
                                > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
                                >
                                > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
                                > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
                                this
                                > might come up... <cough>
                                >
                                > Yours for freedom,
                                > Lady Liberty
                                >
                                > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
                                vigilant,
                                > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                --
                                > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
                                > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                ====================

                                My alternate email address is
                                libertymls@...

                                If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
                                please resend to the alternate address.
                              • Tim Condon
                                Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                                  hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                                  not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                                  organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                                  engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                                  meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                                  together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                                  the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                                  FSP member services


                                  At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                                  >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                                  >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                                  >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                                  >ANYONE in
                                  >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                                  >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                                  >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                                  >go the
                                  >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                                  >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
                                • Mike Denny
                                  Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
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                                    Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                                    Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                                    the Free State.



                                    Mike Denny





                                    ________________________________

                                    From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                                    Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                                    To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                                    Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                                    hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                                    we're
                                    not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                                    organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                                    engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                                    the
                                    meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                                    together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                                    pull
                                    the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                                    FSP member services
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