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Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

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  • Keith Murphy
    This is not at all core FSP infrastructure, but simply a private email list. It isn t even run off the FSP server, but instead is run off of the Yahoo
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
      This is not at all "core" FSP infrastructure, but simply a private
      email list. It isn't even run off the FSP server, but instead is run
      off of the Yahoo servers. It would be like a Sierra Club member
      operating a yahoo group for like-minded environmentalists. Surely
      501(c)3 doesn't prohibit members of organizations PRIVATELY supporting
      certain legislation or candidates. As long as FSP resources (which
      doesn't include this list) aren't used to further candidates or
      legislation then we should be fine.

      Nevertheless, to avert the perceived conflict, I will not post anything
      else related to campaigns or legislation to this list. Have a good
      day.


      On Apr 1, 2004, at 3:47 AM, simplulo wrote:

      > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
      > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
      > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which is
      > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care what
      > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
      > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is not
      > an FSP function.
      >
      > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
      > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally doing
      > everything we can to recruit new members.
    • Michelle
      From where I sit (which happens to be NH), I see individual FSP **members** becoming more active and trying to influence legislation. The core FSP
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
        From where I sit (which happens to be NH), I see individual FSP
        **members** becoming more active and trying to influence
        legislation. The core FSP infrastructure has **nothing** to do with
        it and I can't understand how anyone would see it as either a
        violation of 501(c)3 rules or a distraction from the FSP mission.

        In fact, far from being a distraction, I believe the exact opposite.
        If only a handful of real activists begin to have a positive impact
        in NH (and we already are!!), it will dramatically accelerate FSP
        recruitment.

        Michelle

        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, simplulo <no_reply@y...>
        wrote:
        > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
        > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
        > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which
        is
        > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care
        what
        > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
        > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is
        not
        > an FSP function.
        >
        > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
        > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally
        doing
        > everything we can to recruit new members.
      • Adam W. Gonnerman
        I disagree wholeheartedly. Individual members can use the contacts we ve made for political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP and the FSP can
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
          I disagree wholeheartedly. Individual members can use the contacts we've made for political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP and the FSP can report on it as an update on member activity without violating the beast's tax law. Yes, we should and are seeking new members, but we also want our future home to be as worth moving to as possible. Some have already made the move, others will soon and some of us will be a little longer. Should those who are there do nothing? And what about us who are in temporary exile out here?

          Adam G.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: simplulo [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
          Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2004 08:47 AM
          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

          Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
          try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
          501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which is
          to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care what
          happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
          and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is not
          an FSP function.

          Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
          editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally doing
          everything we can to recruit new members.

          --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
          <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
          > OK, here's where we stand on Senate Bill 454:
          >
          > From what I understand, most of the testimony today was in favor
          of the
          > bill -- approximately a dozen FSP members showed up, along with
          > representatives from the NHLA and the LPNH.  The opposition
          continues
          > to be from the NH police chiefs, who are loath to give up their
          power
          > in deciding who is worthy to carry a concealed firearm.  The next
          step
          > is the committee vote, which will likely be held on 23 April.
          >
          > That gives us three more weeks to persuade those that need to be
          > persuaded.  The committee has 21 members, and we need 11 votes to
          pass
          > the motion to give the bill an "ought to pass" label.
          >
          > Eight of the 21 representatives have made it clear that they will
          > either support the bill or oppose it, regardless of our efforts. 
          Those
          > in favor are representatives Bicknell, Welch, and Kennedy.  Those
          > opposed are representatives Robertson, Gilbert, Bemis, Knowles,
          and
          > Callaghan.  WE SHOULD NOT WASTE TIME AND EFFORT WITH THESE
          > REPRESENTATIVES!!!
          >
          > The other thirteen representatives have not yet indicated,
          directly or
          > indirectly, whether they will support or oppose SB 454.  Those
          > representatives are:
          >
          > Tholl (leaning NO)
          > Fesh
          > Nedeau (leaning NO)
          > Weare
          > Fish
          > Oliver
          > Winchell
          > Smith
          > Pentelakos
          > Stevens
          > Jones
          > Berube
          > Movsesian
          >
          > Here's what you can do:  Each of us, every single day for the next
          20
          > days, should send a letter AND an email to each of these
          > representatives.  It can obviously be the same letter and email
          to
          > each.  Your communication should be friendly and informative,
          polite
          > and concise.  At all costs avoid an argumentative, defensive tone. 
          >
          > Please don't make phone calls -- the NHLA has a lobbyist dedicated
          to
          > working this bill with face-to-face contact.  Focus on the
          thirteen
          > undecided representatives -- they will decide whether this bill
          passes
          > or dies. 
          >
          > In the event that you get a response from one of these
          representatives,
          > indicating whether he/she intends to support or oppose the
          legislation,
          > please post it here so the rest of us can adjust our efforts
          > accordingly.  To find the addresses of the members of the
          committee, go
          > here:
          >
          > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/billstatus/commdetails.asp?
          > txtcommcode=H26
          >
          > LET'S GET TO WORK, PEOPLE!!!  TIME TO BE ACTIVISTS!!!
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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        • Adam W. Gonnerman
          Keith, Send to me and I ll post anything pertaining to campaigns and legislation in NH on the FSP Christians, FSP States Rights, FSP Believers Church and FSP
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 1, 2004
            Keith,

            Send to me and I'll post anything pertaining to campaigns and legislation in NH on the FSP Christians, FSP States Rights, FSP Believers Church and FSP Pro-Immigration list (so long as it doesn't directly conflict with the aims of a particular list).

            Adam G.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Keith Murphy [mailto:keithrmurphy@...]
            Sent: Thursday, April 1, 2004 03:07 PM
            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

            This is not at all "core" FSP infrastructure, but simply a private
            email list. It isn't even run off the FSP server, but instead is run
            off of the Yahoo servers. It would be like a Sierra Club member
            operating a yahoo group for like-minded environmentalists. Surely
            501(c)3 doesn't prohibit members of organizations PRIVATELY supporting
            certain legislation or candidates. As long as FSP resources (which
            doesn't include this list) aren't used to further candidates or
            legislation then we should be fine.

            Nevertheless, to avert the perceived conflict, I will not post anything
            else related to campaigns or legislation to this list. Have a good
            day.


            On Apr 1, 2004, at 3:47 AM, simplulo wrote:

            > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
            > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of the
            > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which is
            > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care what
            > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
            > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is not
            > an FSP function.
            >
            > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
            > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally doing
            > everything we can to recruit new members.




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            To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          • Steve
            That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the FSP was founded here, and
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
              That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
              origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
              FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
              discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
              tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
              very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
              functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
              at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
              collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
              where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.

              The group moderators
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
              are mostly from the leadership, including directors.

              Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
              group's home page:

              "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
              or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
              mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
              lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
              have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
              almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
              http://forum.freestateproject.org ."

              This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
              list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
              reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
              with them.

              --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, Keith Murphy
              <keithrmurphy@c...> wrote:
              > This is not at all "core" FSP infrastructure, but simply a
              private
              > email list. It isn't even run off the FSP server, but instead is
              run
              > off of the Yahoo servers. It would be like a Sierra Club member
              > operating a yahoo group for like-minded environmentalists. Surely
              > 501(c)3 doesn't prohibit members of organizations PRIVATELY
              supporting
              > certain legislation or candidates. As long as FSP resources
              (which
              > doesn't include this list) aren't used to further candidates or
              > legislation then we should be fine.
              >
              > Nevertheless, to avert the perceived conflict, I will not post
              anything
              > else related to campaigns or legislation to this list. Have a
              good
              > day.
              >
              >
              > On Apr 1, 2004, at 3:47 AM, simplulo wrote:
              >
              > > Am I on drugs, or do I see people using core FSP infrstructure to
              > > try to influence legislation? Not only is this a violation of
              the
              > > 501(c)3 rules, it is a distraction from the FSP's mission, which
              is
              > > to get 20K libertarians to move to New Hampshire. I don't care
              what
              > > happens in NH now if we don't get 20K people signed up. Go ahead
              > > and work privately with the porcs and others in NH, but this is
              not
              > > an FSP function.
              > >
              > > Each of us, every single day, should be writing letters to the
              > > editor and posting in non-FSP discussion forums and generally
              doing
              > > everything we can to recruit new members.
            • Steve
              ... Just not in this Yahoo group, on the FSP web site, or in any way that falsely suggests FSP endorsement.
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
                I agree wholeheartedly:

                >Individual members can use the contacts we've made for
                >political (or any other) activity not endorsed by the FSP

                Just not in this Yahoo group, on the FSP web site, or in any way
                that falsely suggests FSP endorsement.
              • Adam W. Gonnerman
                Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass muster,
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
                  Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass muster, Steve?

                  Adam G.

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
                  Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                  To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                  That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                  origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                  FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                  discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
                  tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                  very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                  functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
                  at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                  collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                  where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.

                  The group moderators
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                  are mostly from the leadership, including directors.

                  Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                  group's home page:

                  "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                  or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                  mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                  lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                  have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                  almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                  http://forum.freestateproject.org ."

                  This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
                  list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                  reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                  with them.
                • Lady Liberty
                  on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@burntmail.com ... Steve isn t stifling activism. He s got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3 status
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
                    on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                    wrote:

                    > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                    > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                    > muster, Steve?

                    Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
                    status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
                    might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
                    to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
                    it's obtained.

                    Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
                    the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
                    <cough>

                    Yours for freedom,
                    Lady Liberty

                    "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
                    active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
                    Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                  • Philip L. Welch
                    ... Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved? Philip L. Welch
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
                      > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                      > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                      > FSP was founded here

                      Wait a minute. You founded the Free State Project on
                      freestateproject@yahoogroups.com? Is there time travel involved?

                      Philip L. Welch
                      http://www.philwelch.net/
                      http://www.PetitionOnline.com/philscar/petition.html


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Alan R. Weiss
                      My dear Adam, Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle activism? All he is saying is not on THIS particular list , and not in a place
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 2, 2004
                        My dear Adam,

                        Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                        activism?

                        All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                        place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                        indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                        does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                        commitment?

                        Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                        mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                        are. :-)

                        WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                        dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                        term will not be a crisis-issue.

                        OK, fellow Porcupines?

                        With regards to both,

                        Alan R. Weiss
                        Austin
                        Member, FSP



                        --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                        <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                        > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                        an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                        that not pass muster, Steve?
                        >
                        > Adam G.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                        > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                        > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                        >
                        > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                        > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                        > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                        > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                        on
                        > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                        > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                        > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                        links
                        > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                        > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                        > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                        >
                        > The group moderators
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                        > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                        >
                        > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                        > group's home page:
                        >
                        > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                        > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                        > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                        > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                        > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                        > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                        > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                        >
                        > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                        mailing
                        > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                        > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                        > with them.
                      • Tim Condon
                        Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you re trying to advance the movement with
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                          Now, now, guys. Relax, Adam. Steve is trying to protect the Free
                          State Project in sounding his concerns, just as you're trying to advance
                          the movement with your call to activism. No need to get acidic. ---Tim Condon


                          At 06:16 PM 4/2/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                          >Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                          >activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                          >muster, Steve?
                          >
                          >Adam G.
                          >
                          >-----Original Message-----
                          >From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@...]
                          >Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                          >To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                          >
                          >That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                          >origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                          >FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                          >discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off on
                          >tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                          >very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                          >functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware links
                          >at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                          >collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                          >where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                          >
                          >The group moderators
                          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                          >are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                          >
                          >Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                          >group's home page:
                          >
                          >"This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                          >or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                          >mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                          >lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                          >have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                          >almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                          >http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                          >
                          >This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP mailing
                          >list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                          >reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                          >with them.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Adam W. Gonnerman
                          The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list. Adam G. ... From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@ebenchmarks.com] Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                            The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                            Adam G.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                            Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                            To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                            My dear Adam,

                            Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                            activism?

                            All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                            place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                            indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                            does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                            commitment?

                            Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                            mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                            are. :-)

                            WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                            dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                            term will not be a crisis-issue.

                            OK, fellow Porcupines?

                            With regards to both,

                            Alan R. Weiss
                            Austin
                            Member, FSP



                            --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                            <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                            > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                            an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                            that not pass muster, Steve?
                            >
                            > Adam G.
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                            > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                            > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                            >
                            > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                            > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                            > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                            > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                            on
                            > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                            > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                            > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                            links
                            > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                            > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                            > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                            >
                            > The group moderators
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                            > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                            >
                            > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                            > group's home page:
                            >
                            > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                            > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                            > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                            > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                            > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                            > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                            > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                            >
                            > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                            mailing
                            > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                            > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                            > with them.



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                          • Oliver Dyer
                            Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 3, 2004
                              Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                              get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                              sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think ANYONE in
                              the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                              you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                              organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you go the
                              501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                              not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.

                              Lady Liberty wrote:

                              > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up an FSP
                              > > activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does that not pass
                              > > muster, Steve?
                              >
                              > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the 501(c)3
                              > status and whether or not a list labeled as "official business" for the FSP
                              > might likely be subject to 501(c)3 requirements - and if a failure to adhere
                              > to the requirements on such a list might jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once
                              > it's obtained.
                              >
                              > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3 status in
                              > the first place never even THOUGHT that something like this might come up...
                              > <cough>
                              >
                              > Yours for freedom,
                              > Lady Liberty
                              >
                              > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the
                              > active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                              > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              > News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe.
                              > Visit http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                              >
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Rick LaPoint
                              Why in the hell are we having this discussion? On this list? Have we not learned to ignore convention yet? Anarchists, denite! rick ... From: Adam W. Gonnerman
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                                Why in the hell are we having this discussion?

                                On this list?

                                Have we not learned to ignore convention yet?

                                Anarchists, denite!

                                rick

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Adam W. Gonnerman [mailto:freestatepatriot@...]
                                Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:36 AM
                                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update

                                The only good alternative, then, is that I leave this list.

                                Adam G.

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Alan R. Weiss [mailto:alan@...]
                                Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 11:21 PM
                                To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update


                                My dear Adam,

                                Do you *really* think, in your heart, that Steve wants to stifle
                                activism?

                                All he is saying is "not on THIS particular list", and "not in a
                                place that can jeopardize the status of the FSP." We both know,
                                indeed everyone knows, that you support the mission of the FSP (as
                                does Steve). How can anyone who has read your words not know your
                                commitment?

                                Lets save our vitriol, bile, rejectionism, nastiness, and general
                                mayhem for the REAL enemies of liberty and seek to remember who WE
                                are. :-)

                                WE are better than them. WE treat each other with respect and
                                dignity. Most of all, WE don't eat our own over what in the long-
                                term will not be a crisis-issue.

                                OK, fellow Porcupines?

                                With regards to both,

                                Alan R. Weiss
                                Austin
                                Member, FSP



                                --- In freestateproject@yahoogroups.com, "Adam W. Gonnerman"
                                <freestatepatriot@b...> wrote:
                                > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting up
                                an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                                that not pass muster, Steve?
                                >
                                > Adam G.
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Steve [mailto:simplulo@y...]
                                > Sent: Friday, April 2, 2004 10:41 AM
                                > To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update
                                >
                                > That this group has over 13K messages should be a clue as to its
                                > origins. If you go back to the beginning, all will be clear: the
                                > FSP was founded here, and the primary purpose of this forum remains
                                > discussion of FSP business, though we do sometimes tend to go off
                                on
                                > tangents (I think a recent post of mine was moderated). It was a
                                > very long time before we opened the web site, and even then, some
                                > functions were never duplicated: if you click on the groupware
                                links
                                > at the left (files, photos, etc) you will see how we used to
                                > collaborate, and still occasionally do. There is no other place
                                > where any member can upload files for sharing with the others.
                                >
                                > The group moderators
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freestateproject/members?group=mod
                                > are mostly from the leadership, including directors.
                                >
                                > Anyone who is still uncertain should read the statement on this
                                > group's home page:
                                >
                                > "This group/list is moderated and is for discussion of FSP business
                                > or FSP-specific issues or questions. This is the only official e-
                                > mail discussion list run by the Free State Project; other email
                                > lists are unofficial and run by FSP members or supporters. We also
                                > have a new web community that we invite everyone to join to discuss
                                > almost any topic under the sun on various boards:
                                > http://forum.freestateproject.org ."
                                >
                                > This is indeed a private e-mail list--a private official FSP
                                mailing
                                > list--and a good deal more. Anything said or done here should
                                > reflect and further the FSP's goals, and certainly not interfere
                                > with them.



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                              • Mary Lou Seymour
                                Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP applied for c3 status last time, it s certainly possible they d want email postings. (and
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 4, 2004
                                  Since the IRS wanted transcripts of radio interviews when the FSP
                                  applied for c3 status last time, it's certainly possible they'd want
                                  email postings. (and have the RIGHT to them, BTW). Posts labeled "SB
                                  454 update" on the official email list would obviously be a red flag.
                                  (The invasion of privacy aspect is only one of the many reasons i've
                                  always opposed c3, of course.)
                                  (And no, I don't read this list much anymore, just when people ask me
                                  to "look at what's going on now".)

                                  On 2 Apr 2004 at 17:47, Lady Liberty wrote:

                                  > on 4/2/04 2:16 PM, Adam W. Gonnerman at freestatepatriot@...
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Great Steve, stifle activism. Nice. How about someone setting
                                  up
                                  > > an FSP activists list? FSP could list it on their site. Or does
                                  > > that not pass muster, Steve?
                                  >
                                  > Steve isn't stifling activism. He's got some valid concerns re: the
                                  > 501(c)3 status and whether or not a list labeled as "official
                                  > business" for the FSP might likely be subject to 501(c)3
                                  requirements
                                  > - and if a failure to adhere to the requirements on such a list
                                  might
                                  > jeopardize the 501(c)3 status once it's obtained.
                                  >
                                  > Of course, I and the people like me who were against the 501(c)3
                                  > status in the first place never even THOUGHT that something like
                                  this
                                  > might come up... <cough>
                                  >
                                  > Yours for freedom,
                                  > Lady Liberty
                                  >
                                  > "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the
                                  vigilant,
                                  > the active, the brave." Patrick Henry
                                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  --
                                  > ------ News, commentary, and a patriotic goodie shoppe. Visit
                                  > http://www.ladylibrty.com today!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  ====================

                                  My alternate email address is
                                  libertymls@...

                                  If you email me and I don't respond within 12 hours,
                                  please resend to the alternate address.
                                • Tim Condon
                                  Oliver, it s not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we re not a political
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                                    Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the
                                    hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because we're
                                    not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                                    organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                                    engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In the
                                    meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                                    together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then pull
                                    the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,
                                    FSP member services


                                    At 02:08 PM 4/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
                                    >Hey folks, I monitor your chat as an interested man ready to go BUT you gotta
                                    >get off this government priviledge deal. The 501 (c)3 status is for government
                                    >sanctioned organizations meaning they can regulate you. I don't think
                                    >ANYONE in
                                    >the FSP frame of mind wants that. As for the people who will not contribute if
                                    >you're not going to be a dedutable expense; forget them and move on. The
                                    >organization will suffer sabotoge at the hands of the contributors if you
                                    >go the
                                    >501c3 route. Just quit now before everyone gets their feelings hurt if you're
                                    >not going to do it right. Oliver, in what I wish was a fsp state; Texas.
                                  • Mike Denny
                                    Exactly Tim....politics will come later. Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in the Free State. Mike Denny
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 5, 2004
                                      Exactly Tim....politics will come later.



                                      Greetings from San Francisco....looking forward to being with you all in
                                      the Free State.



                                      Mike Denny





                                      ________________________________

                                      From: Tim Condon [mailto:tim@...]
                                      Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:17 AM
                                      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: SB 454 Update



                                      Oliver, it's not possible for the FSP to suffer sabotage at the

                                      hands of contributors when we have our 501(c)(3) status. Why? Because
                                      we're
                                      not a political organization; we're a recruiting and migration-sparking
                                      organization. Once in the Free State, it will be up to everyone how to
                                      engage in activism to get to a drastically reduced state government. In
                                      the
                                      meantime, however, the only job of the Free State Project is to gather
                                      together 20,000 people who promise to move to the Free State, and then
                                      pull
                                      the trigger (so to speak) on the migration. That's all. ---Tim Condon,

                                      FSP member services
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