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Re: [FSP] Excited, Worried

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  • G Triest
    Mike: While NH is likely to experience even more growth than it already enjoys (the only growing population in the Northeastern US) I didn t know that NH was
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 6, 2004
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      Mike:

      "While NH is likely to experience even
      more growth than it already enjoys (the only growing population in the
      Northeastern US)"

      I didn't know that NH was the only growing population in the NE US.
      Interesting.

      Gary T.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mike Lorrey
      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 4:04 PM
      Subject: Re: [FSP] Excited, Worried



      --- wolzybk <boncer@...> wrote:
      > This is not necessarily a troll question. It is, I think, a
      > legitimate question that we need to be able to respond intelligently
      > to.
      >
      > Answer #1 has to do with property rights. In a free state, people
      > will have rights to their property, and will therefore have control
      > over the preservation of their villages and vistas. No eminent
      > domain for the benefit of large corporations (and the politicians
      > they donate to). Some areas, primarily those already urbanized, will
      > experience high growth, and surrounding suburbanization. But this
      > will be localized to those areas where this is most efficient for the
      > people concerned. Hong Kong is a very small area, even compared to
      > Hew Hampshire, with a huge amount of business (caused by the lack of
      > free business areas in the whole region). There is no reason to
      > expect that sort of intense urbanization in most of New Hampshire.

      NH is far larger in area than Hong Kong, and gained its prominence as
      the sole far east trade center for a global trade empire under British
      rule, interfacing as the closest contiguous freedtrade area with the
      most populated nation on earth. While NH is likely to experience even
      more growth than it already enjoys (the only growing population in the
      Northeastern US), both in population and economically speaking, neither
      Canada nor the US are in any way as big or as bad as China is, as
      oppressive statist nations go.

      >
      > Answer #2 has also to do with property rights. The government will
      > not have the power to sell the timber to the highest contributor; the
      > fate of the wilds will be determined by the owners of such property.
      > Since clear-cutting timber from a piece of scenic land drastically
      > reduces its resale value, the owners of such land will be not very
      > likely to do so. The timber companies, faced with the actual cost of
      > destroying land value, will either develop methods that do not
      > destroy the land, or (more likely) go strip "public" land in states
      > where the government gives them permission to do so.

      What they have already done, instead, is sell the land to non-profit
      charity environmental groups (thus removing the land from the property
      tax rolls altogether, increasing everybody else's taxes) and giving
      those groups long term contracts to supply their paper mills in Maine
      and lumber mills in Canada. The environmental groups that the original
      writer seems to be representing (if he or she is a troll) are the ones
      doing the logging now. Tree huggers killing trees. Quite a picture.

      >
      > Answer #3 has also (surprise!) to do with property rights. In a free
      > state, people (and corporations) will be held responsible for their
      > actions. A company (or individual) who dumps toxic waste that
      > affects anyone without that person's consent will be liable for the
      > consequent damages.

      Some environmental laws are quite libertarian, especially the ones that
      allow a person to sue another for their negative externalities. Some
      property rights proponents of the 'screw you I got mine' variety may
      not like it, but such laws are legitimate from a libertarian
      perspective. I suggest the original writer actually research
      libertarian environmentalism, especially works by David Friedman.

      =====
      Mike Lorrey
      "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
      - Gen. John Stark
      "Fascists are objectively pro-pacifist..."
      - Mike Lorrey
      Do not label me, I am an ism of one...
      Sado-Mikeyism: http://mikeysoft.zblogger.com

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    • Mike Lorrey
      ... Actually, let me rephrase that. NH is the only northeast state with positive immigration and has the highest population growth rate in the NE. The other NE
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 6, 2004
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        --- G Triest <garyonthenet@...> wrote:
        > Mike:
        >
        > "While NH is likely to experience even
        > more growth than it already enjoys (the only growing population in
        > the
        > Northeastern US)"
        >
        > I didn't know that NH was the only growing population in the NE US.
        > Interesting.

        Actually, let me rephrase that. NH is the only northeast state with
        positive immigration and has the highest population growth rate in the
        NE. The other NE states have grown in population, but at much smaller
        rates than NH, and all NE states are seeing their residents move to NH.

        NH increased by 126,000 between 1990 and 2000. Connecticut has
        increased by 130,000, but is already three times larger than NH. Mass
        increased by 300,000, but is six times larger than NH. Maine increased
        by 47,000 and is about the same size as NH. New York increased by just
        under a million, but is 15 times larger. Rhode Island increased by
        45,000 and is only slightly smaller than NH. Vermont increased by
        46,000 and is about half the size of NH.

        All other NH states are growing in population at ~1/3-1/2 the rate of
        NH, with the exception of Vermont, which had about 2/3 of NH's growth.

        Generally speaking, a state must sustain a higher than average
        population growth in order to gain congressional seats and electoral
        votes over time. The following map:

        http://www.ameristat.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Ameristat/Topics1/2000Census1/Growth_by_State__U_S__Population_Winners_in_the_1990s.htm

        demonstrates that the states which gained seats in congress were those
        with sustained population growth over 10%. While one can see the
        population growth in the southeast and soutwest is not significantly
        draining population from other states (it is generally high hispanic
        immigration from the south and low migration of young and old at a rate
        below that needed to sustain population in their home states)

        =====
        Mike Lorrey
        "Live Free or Die, Death is not the Worst of Evils."
        - Gen. John Stark
        "Fascists are objectively pro-pacifist..."
        - Mike Lorrey
        Do not label me, I am an ism of one...
        Sado-Mikeyism: http://mikeysoft.zblogger.com

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      • Tim Condon
        ... That s not true. Every state in the Northeast has growing populations, and others are growing as fast or faster than New Hampshire.
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 6, 2004
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          >Mike: "While NH is likely to experience even more growth than it already
          >enjoys (the only growing population in the Northeastern US)"
          >
          >I didn't know that NH was the only growing population in the NE US.
          >Interesting.
          >Gary T.

          That's not true. Every state in the Northeast has growing
          populations, and others are growing as fast or faster than New Hampshire.
          http://www.census.gov/population/projections/state

          Tim Condon - 813-251-2626 - Tampa, FL - tim@...
          Want Liberty in Your Lifetime? - http://www.freestateproject.org


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