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Re: [FSP] Re: Membership

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  • Damian
    I do. I have personally enlisted members to the FSP. ... From: Damian To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:59 AM Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 19, 2003
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      I do.
      I have personally enlisted members to the FSP.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Damian
      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:59 AM
      Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: Membership


      Yes, this is true...not mant people have an idea of what this list is all about. Maybe this is the problem, I lead a full life and can't keep up with your rhetoric. Why don't you start focusing on Philosophy and individual rights? I am an individualist and am outraged at the current govt. of the US.

      Live free...and let others live free!

      Damian FSP member # 2460
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Tim Condon
      To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:18 AM
      Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: Membership



      >Begin promoting the current state of NH politics as a great start: Benson,
      >the house bills this year (CACR 25, HB 1271, HB 1193, HCR 21, and
      >especially HCR 11) What other state would even have these bills introduced???

      Who knows, since few or no one on this list has any idea what they
      say or what they're about....




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    • Bill Alleman
      [Moderator sez: This is useful and valuable information for NH politics. If there is an FSP-related list for NH activism, this should go there. If not, one
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 20, 2003
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        [Moderator sez: This is useful and valuable information for NH politics. If there is an FSP-related list for NH activism, this should go there. If not, one probably should be created for this sort of information and exchange. Thanks, PXB.]

        Seth Cohn wrote on 12/18/2003, 10:56 PM:

        > HB 1271 would eliminate the requirement for New Hampshire residents
        > to obtain a license from the chief of police to carry a concealed
        > firearm. This is known as the "Vermont-style" carry law which means
        > a person can simply carry a concealed weapon without getting anyone's
        > permission.
        > http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HB1271.html


        According to a friend of mine here in NH, well-versed in the politics
        (as well as the function and history) of firearms, the original bill,
        crafted by people with good intentions, but not necessarily
        knowledgeable in the subtleties involved, proposed "Vermont-style." That
        would leave us with no CCW license at all, optional or otherwise, which
        would mean no reciprocity except with Vermont and Alaska. My friend said
        that once this was pointed out to the authors, the re-crafting began,
        the result more closely to resemble "Alaska-style," where you can obtain
        a permit if you wish, thus giving less-enlightened states something
        concrete to reciprocate. That's what he said...
        --

        BikerBill==- ©¿©¬
        allemanse.com==-
      • Rick LaPoint
        Get used to it... for a state which has no mandatory seat-belt, helmet, or compulsory motor-vehicle insurance laws (for adults or those 12 or older), they
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 20, 2003
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          Get used to it... for a state which has no mandatory seat-belt, helmet,
          or compulsory motor-vehicle insurance laws (for adults or those 12 or
          older), they continue to be on the cutting-edge of personal liberty...
          hence it's selection as the "free-state".

          Yes, there is already a contingent of what I call the "ruby ridge" crowd
          active in NH politics... to be expected when you have 400+ elected state
          reps and all kinds of wilderness. Our ability to work together toward
          REAL governmental reform will be the litmus test after 2007, though.

          Right now, I'd take all the crazies currently involved in NH politics
          with a grain of salt. We will soon have 20k activists on the ground
          goading already fiercely independent NH folks toward self-sovereignty,
          and all indications point toward the fact that it's going to be a blast
          to participate in. I cannot wait for the weekly meetings at Cheers in
          Concord (Cheers Downtown Grille & Bar, 17 Depot St - 603.228.0180)

          You are going to have activist meetings, right Michelle?

          If not, I will after I arrive. :D

          In the meantime (as always) pay no attention to the man behind the
          curtain...

          ;)

          rick

          -----Original Message-----
          From: G Triest [mailto:garyonthenet@...]
          Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 12:26 AM
          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [FSP] Re: Membership

          These are amazing and inspiring Bills before the NH legislature. Almost
          too amazing.
          My first gut reaction is that they have been put there by some Montana
          Militiamen, or other extremist that no one would take seriously.
          Who again put them forth? Are they viewed with guarded bemusement by the
          bulk of the legislature?
          That is pretty serious stuff, and certainly on the seemingly unreachable
          wish-list of constitutional freedom seekers, and there it is out in the
          open.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Seth Cohn
          To: freestateproject@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 10:56 PM
          Subject: [FSP] Re: Membership


          Tim wrote:
          >
          > Begin promoting the current state of NH politics as a great start:
          > Benson,
          > the house bills this year (CACR 25, HB 1271, HB 1193, HCR 21, and
          > especially HCR 11) What other state would even have these bills
          > introduced???
          >
          > Who knows, since few or no one on this list has any idea
          > what they say or what they're about....

          Disclaimer: I'm well aware of the FAQ:
          Q. Is the FSP a political organization?
          A. No, the Free State Project is a nonprofit corporation, organized
          for the public benefit and performing educational and charitable
          functions. We do not endorse candidates or legislation. The goals of
          the Free State Project as an organization can be accomplished without
          the election of any candidates or the passage of any legislation: the
          Free State Project's purpose is simply to get 20,000 classical
          liberals and libertarians into a single state of the U.S. What
          happens next is up to those 20,000. Much political planning is
          already being done by FSP members;

          So I want to make clear: By promoting "the current state of politics
          in NH" as liberty-friendly, that is neither endorsing candidates nor
          legislation, including the Governor. An official endorsement isn't
          the answer, but education is. For example...

          Knowing the Governor joined as a friend of FSP is a great point, and
          it's in the archive, but the casual browser would miss it. Seeing
          that the Governor of the state we're planning on working in 'endorse'
          the project goes a long way toward 'perceptional legitimacy' in the
          minds of those unsure.

          So regarding the "current state of NH politics" - education points:

          NH has made great strides in trying to pass a Jury Nullification Bill
          twice. How many other states have come so close?

          For the next few, this is from Rep. Dave Buhlman, (Dist.66, Hudson)'s
          own comments @ http://www.nh-inews.org/articles/03/12/031206d.html

          CACR 25 (CACR means Constitutional Amendment Concurrent Resolution)
          proposes an amendment to the state constitution so that "no tax on
          personal income shall be levied in the State of New Hampshire."
          http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/CACR0025.html

          HB 1271 would eliminate the requirement for New Hampshire residents
          to obtain a license from the chief of police to carry a concealed
          firearm. This is known as the "Vermont-style" carry law which means
          a person can simply carry a concealed weapon without getting anyone's
          permission.
          http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HB1271.html

          HB 1193 seeks to establish "a committee to study the
          constitutionality of the federal income tax and constitutional abuses
          in the collection of the income tax and its effects on New Hampshire
          citizens." This committee would be made up of state representatives
          and state senators.
          http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HB1193.html


          HCR 21 seeks to petition the Congress to reduce the federal tax on
          gas and diesel fuel, thereby allowing the states to increase their
          taxes on this commodity. The premise behind this bill is that the
          state of New Hampshire can do a better job on transportation projects
          without the involvement of the federal government.
          http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HCR0021.html

          And finally and maybe most importantly:
          HCR 11
          [This doesn't match the official introduced text @
          http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2003/HCR0011.html
          but is revised current text courtesy of Rich Tomasso @
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nhlibertarians/message/1401

          The most important bits:

          " That, from this day forward, the State of New Hampshire as
          representative of the people thereof shall deem and treat as null,
          void, and in legal contemplation as inoperative as though it had
          never been issued any and every statute, executive order, judicial
          decision, or other mandate of whatsoever title, description, or
          nature, purportedly emanating from the Government of United States of
          America, or any Branch, Department, or officer thereof, that violates
          the Constitution of the United States of America, by exceeding the
          powers or disregarding the disabilities set out explicitly or
          implicitly therein, or in any other way; and

          That, from this day forward, whenever any statute, executive
          order, judicial decision, or other mandate of whatsoever title,
          description, or nature, purportedly emanating from the Government of
          United States of America, or any Branch, Department, or officer
          thereof, shall violate the Constitution of the United States of
          America, by exceeding the powers or disregarding the disabilities set
          out explicitly or implicitly therein, or in any other way, and shall
          thereby infringe upon the sovereignty, powers, and rights reserved to
          and retained by the State of New Hampshire and the people thereof, as
          explicitly recognized in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the
          Constitution, New Hampshire may, as circumstances warrant, exercise
          its constitutional privilege to bring a case, on behalf of itself and
          the people it represents, challenging such statute, executive order,
          judicial decision, or other mandate, in the original jurisdiction of
          the Supreme Court of the United States, pursuant to Article III,
          Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution of the United States; and

          That, should the Supreme Court of the United States uphold on
          grounds manifestly inconsistent with the Constitution of the United
          States of America the supposed validity of any statute, executive
          order, judicial decision, or other mandate of whatsoever title,
          description, or nature, purportedly emanating from the Government of
          United States of America, or any Branch, Department, or officer
          thereof, and challenged as to its unconstitutionality by the State of
          New Hampshire as aforesaid, then New Hampshire shall consider itself
          free to take whatever other action, in the exercise of its sovereign
          discretion, it determines shall comport with the Constitution of the
          United States of America, in order to interpose itself between the
          people of New Hampshire and the enforcement of such unconstitutional
          statute, executive order, judicial decision, or other mandate, or any
          judicial decision purportedly upholding the same."

          Think about that one, people... Name me another state that would even
          get this on the docket...

          and this is BEFORE the FSP lands 20,000 liberty-minded activists on
          NH's soil.

          I'm impressed, and no other states I'm aware of come close to having
          this sort of positive liberty-minded politics even being _discussed_
          within the legislatures.

          FSP doesn't have to _endorse_ any of these bills, but by pointing to
          them as just some examples of NH's current liberty friendliness, the
          goal of a free state seems much closer (to me at least).

          Making the goal seem attainable is important! There are plenty of
          people I know to whom moving is just too much of a committment, but
          some percentage of them _will_ be convinced if it looks like it's not
          tilting at windmills, but truly within an arm's grasp.




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