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RE: [free_energy] Re: Gardner Watts Thermal Energy Cell

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  • Umshaad Trivates
    I think you have misinterpretted my attempt to propagate some peace betwen certain skeptics and certain believers/promoters/developers. While most of us seem
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 1, 2004
      I think you have misinterpretted my attempt to propagate some peace betwen
      certain skeptics and certain believers/promoters/developers.

      While most of us seem to be civilized in this pursuit, there are those who
      seem to become unjustifiably angered by the skepticism of those who would
      keep the science behind these developments intact.

      That is not to say that developers need not be professional scientists, mind
      you, but the more "educated" a person becomes, the more likely they are to
      fall into the mainstream. It's all probability.

      It is not just an urban legend that most earth-shattering developments have
      been accomplished by "unusual" individuals. The simple state of being
      ingenious enough to invent something revolutionary, whether one displays a
      Ph.D on their wall, is a highschool drop out, works for a multi-billion
      dollar corporation with millions of dollars behind their research, or just
      does "weird experiments" in their backyard or garage, implies that the
      individual is unusual in some way. Whether or not that is reflected in their
      respective social lives, varies from individual to individual.

      I have no predjudice that i know of. Just a keen perception.

      But sometimes the senses make fools of us. I have been wrong before. Edison
      was wrong over 1000 times before he made his lightbulb work.

      So watch your tongue. There is no need to go lippin' at people because in
      YOUR SINGULAR PERCEPTION, that person is wrong.

      Umshaad Trivates
      www.ardam.com

      -----Original Message-----
      From: tomcat5611 [mailto:tomcat5611@...]
      Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:05 PM
      To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [free_energy] Re: Gardner Watts Thermal Energy Cell

      Ridiculous! According to this "logic", none of the scientists
      involved in developing new technology were/are skeptics. A skeptic
      is simply one who maintains a questioning attitude to claims that
      contradict current theories. There is simply no evidence to support
      the prejudiced opinion that all those inventors lacked this healthy
      attitude. It's just an urban legend like the belief that all new
      technologies were invented by loners who were oppressed by
      mainstream scientists. Bullshit!

      If you're going to pretend to mediate betweem skeptics and true-
      believers, you need to drop your own prejudice.

      Tom Catskill



      ---
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    • tomcat5611
      ... skeptics ... skeptic ... that ... Good point. A true skeptic is willing to question even currently accepted theories. But he/she would say this is the
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 1, 2004
        --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Budmont El Rayo Everett III"
        <geb353@y...> wrote:
        > tom wrote:
        >
        > reply to> > Believers/promoters/developers have TONS of ideas, and
        skeptics
        > > >have NONE.
        >
        > > Ridiculous! According to this "logic", none of the scientists
        > > involved in developing new technology were/are skeptics. A
        skeptic
        > > is simply one who maintains a questioning attitude to claims
        that
        > > contradict current theories.
        >
        > A true crackpot is one who is skeptical ABOUT current theories...?


        Good point. A true skeptic is willing to question even currently
        accepted theories. But he/she would say "this is the theory that
        best fits the data, so it looks like our best bet for now", and
        would focus on countering the outright nonsense that scammers and
        the knowledge-impaired try to pass off as science. The true skeptic
        tries to abide by the purest meaning of the scientific method.
        Always demand empirical proof, but remember that certainty is always
        contingent, and a matter of degree.

        Question everything, but most of all question claims that have the
        least empirical support.

        Tom Catskill



        >
        > >There is simply no evidence to support
        > > the prejudiced opinion that all those inventors lacked this
        healthy
        > > attitude.
        >
        > You're even skeptical about this well-known myth; a very tough
        case haaaa.
        >
        > >It's just an urban legend like the belief that all new
        > > technologies were invented by loners who were oppressed by
        > > mainstream scientists. Bullshit!
        >
        > Just the good stuff; the rest is mindlessly ground-out 9-5 in well-
        financed labs with
        > qualified personell - so the results can be 'buried' to conceal
        free energy secrets
        > from the little guy ---
        > Only in the basements, garages and kitchens of the lone wolf
        inventor can
        > anyone expect truly ground-breaking scientific research these days.
        > While bottle-throwing mobs of overexcited 'real' scientists carry
        blazing torches
        > outside the independent researcher's compound, threatening to
        storm it and steal all
        > his hard-earned secrets, he toils on through the night, resolute.
        > What thanks does he get?
        > Nothing, nada, nups.
        > A smartass wiseacre like myself, carelessly wrecking his hard-
        earned reputation for
        > success upon success, is the best he can possibly hope for; and
        the satisfaction of
        > providing some entertainment for others.
        > No financing, no fancy lab-jackets, no peer review is coming his
        way.
        > I get a big fat check from Eric every time I spout off on these
        forums but I feel
        > sorry for the hapless targets...<G>
        > It is a testament to the iron will of these firebrand mavericks
        that they soldier-on
        > in the face of insurmountable odds, usually battling substance
        abuse, galloping mental
        > illness and trash-cluttered balconies alone - completely ignorant
        of even basic science
        > but still able to thrill us with fantastic claims and anecdotal
        evidence.
        > cheers -----
        > BuddyRay
      • tomcat5611
        ... peace betwen ... those who ... who would ... scientists, mind ... they are to ... developments have ... Why don t you name some specific examples of these
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 1, 2004
          --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Umshaad Trivates"
          <freezerboy@k...> wrote:
          > I think you have misinterpretted my attempt to propagate some
          peace betwen
          > certain skeptics and certain believers/promoters/developers.
          >
          > While most of us seem to be civilized in this pursuit, there are
          those who
          > seem to become unjustifiably angered by the skepticism of those
          who would
          > keep the science behind these developments intact.
          >
          > That is not to say that developers need not be professional
          scientists, mind
          > you, but the more "educated" a person becomes, the more likely
          they are to
          > fall into the mainstream. It's all probability.
          >
          > It is not just an urban legend that most earth-shattering
          developments have
          > been accomplished by "unusual" individuals.



          Why don't you name some specific examples of these "unusual"
          (working in their garage) individuals? I will then name even more
          examples of mainstream individuals that have contributed new
          technological innovations.




          The simple state of being
          > ingenious enough to invent something revolutionary, whether one
          displays a
          > Ph.D on their wall, is a highschool drop out, works for a multi-
          billion
          > dollar corporation with millions of dollars behind their research,
          or just
          > does "weird experiments" in their backyard or garage, implies that
          the
          > individual is unusual in some way. Whether or not that is
          reflected in their
          > respective social lives, varies from individual to individual.
          >
          > I have no predjudice that i know of.



          Of course everyone thinks that they have no prejudices. This is one
          of the major weaknesses of human nature. Even extremists think they
          can rationalize there beliefs and are therefore justified.



          >Just a keen perception.



          Yea, I think I have a keen perception too, and no prejudices. And
          my great keeness qualifies me to make error-free judgements about my
          own personality. And I can lift myself up by my own bootstraps.



          >
          > But sometimes the senses make fools of us. I have been wrong
          before. Edison
          > was wrong over 1000 times before he made his lightbulb work.
          >
          > So watch your tongue. There is no need to go lippin' at people
          because in
          > YOUR SINGULAR PERCEPTION, that person is wrong.


          If you don't want me to go lippin' at you, stop lippin' at
          mainstream science and propagating myths.

          Tom Catskill



          >
          > Umshaad Trivates
          > www.ardam.com
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: tomcat5611 [mailto:tomcat5611@y...]
          > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:05 PM
          > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [free_energy] Re: Gardner Watts Thermal Energy Cell
          >
          > Ridiculous! According to this "logic", none of the scientists
          > involved in developing new technology were/are skeptics. A skeptic
          > is simply one who maintains a questioning attitude to claims that
          > contradict current theories. There is simply no evidence to
          support
          > the prejudiced opinion that all those inventors lacked this healthy
          > attitude. It's just an urban legend like the belief that all new
          > technologies were invented by loners who were oppressed by
          > mainstream scientists. Bullshit!
          >
          > If you're going to pretend to mediate betweem skeptics and true-
          > believers, you need to drop your own prejudice.
          >
          > Tom Catskill
          >
          >
          >
          > ---
          > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
          > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
          > Version: 6.0.569 / Virus Database: 360 - Release Date: 1/26/2004
        • Umshaad Trivates
          This is the last time I will address this topic. 1) The Wright Brothers, working independently, challeneged the mainstream and proved once and for all, that
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 2, 2004
            This is the last time I will address this topic.

            1) The Wright Brothers, working independently, challeneged the mainstream
            and proved once and for all, that heavier-than-air flight was possible.
            Albert Einstein wasn't even working in the field of science when he came up
            with relativity. Thomas Edison wasn't much of a scholar either. Most people
            thought he was a moron before he invented the lightbulb and started GE.

            Admittedly, it was a team developers at AT&T Bell laboratories who invented
            the solar cell. They invented it because they needed a way to power some
            part of their infrastructure in remote areas. In the mainstream, it is
            usually necessity that begets invention. Garages and backyards however, are
            where unexpected developments take place, like the aeroplane.

            Disclaimer: these are generalizations and do not necessarily reflect all
            those who develop new technologies. It is equally possible for an engineer
            working for energizer to come up with an inexhaustible power source as it is
            for a beatnik on disability pension to accidently invent a way to levitate
            heavy objects. WHich is likely to become more popular though? Energizer
            would lose a lot of money if an inexhaustible power source existed.

            2) I will admit to two predjudices: I do not like people who bicker
            needlessly and people who actively try to deceive others.

            3) Amazing! Can you teach us how you do this amazing bootstrap levitation
            trick? Perhaps we can use it to design a nifty space craft! Comon now, you
            gotta back up your claim with some evidence!

            4) What Myths? I offer only my own observation. Most people find my insight
            helpful. If you do not, that is your own opinion. You could be friendlier in
            your expression of it is all.

            Now if you're finished your little tantrum, can we continue being civilized
            human beings again?

            Thank you.

            Umshaad Trivates
            www.ardam.com

            -----Original Message-----
            From: tomcat5611 [mailto:tomcat5611@...]
            Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:19 PM
            To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com

            Why don't you name some specific examples of these "unusual"
            (working in their garage) individuals? I will then name even more
            examples of mainstream individuals that have contributed new
            technological innovations.

            Of course everyone thinks that they have no prejudices. This is one
            of the major weaknesses of human nature. Even extremists think they
            can rationalize there beliefs and are therefore justified.

            Yea, I think I have a keen perception too, and no prejudices. And
            my great keeness qualifies me to make error-free judgements about my
            own personality. And I can lift myself up by my own bootstraps.

            If you don't want me to go lippin' at you, stop lippin' at
            mainstream science and propagating myths.

            ---
            Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
            Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
            Version: 6.0.569 / Virus Database: 360 - Release Date: 1/26/2004
          • tomcat5611
            ... mainstream ... possible. ... came up ... Most people ... GE. ... invented ... some ... is ... however, are ... reflect all ... engineer ... as it is ...
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 2, 2004
              --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Umshaad Trivates"
              <freezerboy@k...> wrote:
              > This is the last time I will address this topic.
              >
              > 1) The Wright Brothers, working independently, challeneged the
              mainstream
              > and proved once and for all, that heavier-than-air flight was
              possible.
              > Albert Einstein wasn't even working in the field of science when he
              came up
              > with relativity. Thomas Edison wasn't much of a scholar either.
              Most people
              > thought he was a moron before he invented the lightbulb and started
              GE.
              >
              > Admittedly, it was a team developers at AT&T Bell laboratories who
              invented
              > the solar cell. They invented it because they needed a way to power
              some
              > part of their infrastructure in remote areas. In the mainstream, it
              is
              > usually necessity that begets invention. Garages and backyards
              however, are
              > where unexpected developments take place, like the aeroplane.
              >
              > Disclaimer: these are generalizations and do not necessarily
              reflect all
              > those who develop new technologies. It is equally possible for an
              engineer
              > working for energizer to come up with an inexhaustible power source
              as it is
              > for a beatnik on disability pension to accidently invent a way to
              levitate
              > heavy objects. WHich is likely to become more popular though?
              Energizer
              > would lose a lot of money if an inexhaustible power source existed.
              >
              > 2) I will admit to two predjudices: I do not like people who bicker
              > needlessly and people who actively try to deceive others.
              >
              > 3) Amazing! Can you teach us how you do this amazing bootstrap
              levitation
              > trick? Perhaps we can use it to design a nifty space craft! Comon
              now, you
              > gotta back up your claim with some evidence!
              >
              > 4) What Myths? I offer only my own observation. Most people find my
              insight
              > helpful. If you do not, that is your own opinion. You could be
              friendlier in
              > your expression of it is all.
              >
              > Now if you're finished your little tantrum, can we continue being
              civilized
              > human beings again?


              Umshaad,

              "Tantrum", eh? You couldn't resist throwing in one more stab, could
              you, even as you seemed to try to be somewhat conciliatory.
              Are "bickering" and "tantrum" words that you apply to everyone who
              disagrees with you? And you imply my replies were "uncivilized"?
              What an ego! This is an international site buddy, you'd better get
              used to a wider range of communication styles. And, duh, the
              bootstrap comment parodied your "no prejudices, keen perception" self
              assessment.

              Here's a long list of American inventors and their backgrounds.
              Anyone can read some of the descriptions and decide for themselves if
              most inventors did their magic in the garage, or in mainstream
              industrial and academic labs. The site also lists inventors from the
              rest of the world.


              --Tom Catskill


              American Inventors:

              http://inventors.about.com/library/bl_by_state_inventors.htm

              Inventors Worldwide:

              http://inventors.about.com/cs/famousinventors/



              >
              > Thank you.
              >
              > Umshaad Trivates
              > www.ardam.com
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: tomcat5611 [mailto:tomcat5611@y...]
              > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:19 PM
              > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Why don't you name some specific examples of these "unusual"
              > (working in their garage) individuals? I will then name even more
              > examples of mainstream individuals that have contributed new
              > technological innovations.
              >
              > Of course everyone thinks that they have no prejudices. This is one
              > of the major weaknesses of human nature. Even extremists think they
              > can rationalize there beliefs and are therefore justified.
              >
              > Yea, I think I have a keen perception too, and no prejudices. And
              > my great keeness qualifies me to make error-free judgements about my
              > own personality. And I can lift myself up by my own bootstraps.
              >
              > If you don't want me to go lippin' at you, stop lippin' at
              > mainstream science and propagating myths.
              >
              > ---
              > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
              > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
              > Version: 6.0.569 / Virus Database: 360 - Release Date: 1/26/2004
            • Umshaad Trivates
              Tom, please accept my call of stalemate and request for a cease-fire. You may have the last stab . Obviously, if one of us does not concede this verbal
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 3, 2004
                Tom, please accept my call of stalemate and request for a cease-fire. You
                may have the "last stab". Obviously, if one of us does not concede this
                verbal battle, it will go on forever.

                You and I seem equally matched in the realm of "aggreesive debating".
                Furthermore, you and I may have more in common than you are prepared to
                admit. Your arguments make a lot of sense and are difficult to rebut. Even I
                have had to laugh at the way some of my statements come out! Not the way I
                had expected, I'll tell you that! I mean nothing but well for the world, and
                someone still misinterprets what I say! As good as I am at public speaking
                and presentation writing, it would seem I still need an advisor. Thank you
                for imparting this insight!

                On that note, Tom, I think we should join forces!
                Tell me, have you been to my website, Tom?

                In the midst of this argument, for which I duly apologize (the aim of the
                original post that sparked this debate was aimed at calming relations
                between skeptics and believers, not start a war between me and Tom here)
                I've completely forgotten what a Gardner Watts Thermal Energy Cell is
                supposed to be anyway. Does this have something to do with the
                Thermophotovoltaics discussion we had a while back?

                Umshaad Trivates
                www.ardam.com

                --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Umshaad Trivates"
                <freezerboy@k...> wrote:
                > This is the last time I will address this topic.
                >
                > 1) The Wright Brothers, working independently, challeneged the
                mainstream
                > and proved once and for all, that heavier-than-air flight was
                possible.
                > Albert Einstein wasn't even working in the field of science when he
                came up
                > with relativity. Thomas Edison wasn't much of a scholar either.
                Most people
                > thought he was a moron before he invented the lightbulb and started
                GE.
                >
                > Admittedly, it was a team developers at AT&T Bell laboratories who
                invented
                > the solar cell. They invented it because they needed a way to power
                some
                > part of their infrastructure in remote areas. In the mainstream, it
                is
                > usually necessity that begets invention. Garages and backyards
                however, are
                > where unexpected developments take place, like the aeroplane.
                >
                > Disclaimer: these are generalizations and do not necessarily
                reflect all
                > those who develop new technologies. It is equally possible for an
                engineer
                > working for energizer to come up with an inexhaustible power source
                as it is
                > for a beatnik on disability pension to accidently invent a way to
                levitate
                > heavy objects. WHich is likely to become more popular though?
                Energizer
                > would lose a lot of money if an inexhaustible power source existed.
                >
                > 2) I will admit to two predjudices: I do not like people who bicker
                > needlessly and people who actively try to deceive others.
                >
                > 3) Amazing! Can you teach us how you do this amazing bootstrap
                levitation
                > trick? Perhaps we can use it to design a nifty space craft! Comon
                now, you
                > gotta back up your claim with some evidence!
                >
                > 4) What Myths? I offer only my own observation. Most people find my
                insight
                > helpful. If you do not, that is your own opinion. You could be
                friendlier in
                > your expression of it is all.
                >
                > Now if you're finished your little tantrum, can we continue being
                civilized
                > human beings again?


                Umshaad,

                "Tantrum", eh? You couldn't resist throwing in one more stab, could
                you, even as you seemed to try to be somewhat conciliatory.
                Are "bickering" and "tantrum" words that you apply to everyone who
                disagrees with you? And you imply my replies were "uncivilized"?
                What an ego! This is an international site buddy, you'd better get
                used to a wider range of communication styles. And, duh, the
                bootstrap comment parodied your "no prejudices, keen perception" self
                assessment.

                Here's a long list of American inventors and their backgrounds.
                Anyone can read some of the descriptions and decide for themselves if
                most inventors did their magic in the garage, or in mainstream
                industrial and academic labs. The site also lists inventors from the
                rest of the world.


                --Tom Catskill


                American Inventors:

                http://inventors.about.com/library/bl_by_state_inventors.htm

                Inventors Worldwide:

                http://inventors.about.com/cs/famousinventors/



                >
                > Thank you.
                >
                > Umshaad Trivates
                > www.ardam.com
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: tomcat5611 [mailto:tomcat5611@y...]
                > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 2:19 PM
                > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Why don't you name some specific examples of these "unusual"
                > (working in their garage) individuals? I will then name even more
                > examples of mainstream individuals that have contributed new
                > technological innovations.
                >
                > Of course everyone thinks that they have no prejudices. This is one
                > of the major weaknesses of human nature. Even extremists think they
                > can rationalize there beliefs and are therefore justified.
                >
                > Yea, I think I have a keen perception too, and no prejudices. And
                > my great keeness qualifies me to make error-free judgements about my
                > own personality. And I can lift myself up by my own bootstraps.
                >
                > If you don't want me to go lippin' at you, stop lippin' at
                > mainstream science and propagating myths.
                >
                > ---
                > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
                > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
                > Version: 6.0.569 / Virus Database: 360 - Release Date: 1/26/2004



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