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Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??

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  • Tom Schum
    I took an extended vacation from this group, but the topics are too interesting for me so I am back. Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2008
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      I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are too
      interesting for me so I am back.

      Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
      digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use of
      microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.

      In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
      ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru the
      center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can store
      or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do it
      again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense line).
      Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting lots
      of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded thru
      the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
      done by hand, under microscopes.

      The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
      produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and reverse
      the magnetization.

      So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
      material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the video.

      The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
      reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any other
      means?"

      The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
      reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when the
      domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).

      Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of uses
      could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
      difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.

      Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.

      Tom Schum

      --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "tallex2002"
      <altenergynetwork@...> wrote:
      >
      > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
      >
      >
      > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on and
      > off and can keep either state without external power.
      >
      >
      > http://eusaj.notlong.com
      >
      > http://www.alternate-energy.net/Z/video/0/video/magnetic%
      > 20pulser/DGab9-zDUb8.html
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
      > thousands of news sources
      >
      > http://blog.alternate-energy.net/tags.php
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
      > technology videos
      >
      > http://www.alternate-energy.net/RES/index.php
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
      >
      > http://www.alternate-energy.net/vidpicks08.html
      >
    • Dick Seegers
      Hi Tom,   In that case it would be simple to overcome the sticky point in whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn t it? Fact remains of course what you
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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        Hi Tom,
         
        In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
        Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad idea to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current from it.
        It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could be easily measured.

        --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
        From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
        Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
        To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM

        I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are too
        interesting for me so I am back.

        Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
        digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use of
        microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.

        In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
        ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru the
        center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can store
        or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do it
        again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense line).
        Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting lots
        of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded thru
        the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
        done by hand, under microscopes.

        The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
        produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and reverse
        the magnetization.

        So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
        material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the video.

        The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
        reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any other
        means?"

        The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
        reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when the
        domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).

        Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of uses
        could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
        difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.

        Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.

        Tom Schum

        --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
        <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
        >
        >
        > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on and
        > off and can keep either state without external power.
        >
        >
        > http://eusaj. notlong.com
        >
        > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
        > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
        > thousands of news sources
        >
        > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
        > technology videos
        >
        > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
        >
        > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
        >


      • Tom Schum
        Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking point in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less powerful than neodymium
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
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          Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking point
          in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
          powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
          the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive coil
          has resistance so power losses are going to be large and unavoidable.

          There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
          plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up against
          the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.

          If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then remove
          the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first step.

          Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a little
          lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
          and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is already
          solved.
          http://www.kanetec.com/products/magneticbase/index.shtml

          Tom Schum

          --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Tom,
          >  
          > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in
          whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
          > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
          output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad idea
          to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
          permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
          from it.
          > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could
          be easily measured.
          >
          > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
          > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
          > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are
          too
          > interesting for me so I am back.
          >
          > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
          > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use of
          > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
          >
          > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
          > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru
          the
          > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
          store
          > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do
          it
          > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense line).
          > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
          lots
          > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded thru
          > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
          > done by hand, under microscopes.
          >
          > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
          > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
          reverse
          > the magnetization.
          >
          > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
          > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
          video.
          >
          > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
          > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any other
          > means?"
          >
          > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
          > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when the
          > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
          >
          > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of
          uses
          > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
          > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
          >
          > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
          >
          > Tom Schum
          >
          > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
          > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
          > >
          > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
          > >
          > >
          > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on
          and
          > > off and can keep either state without external power.
          > >
          > >
          > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
          > >
          > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
          > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
          > > thousands of news sources
          > >
          > > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
          > > technology videos
          > >
          > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
          > >
          > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
          > >
          >
        • Mohammed Alkhamis
          Hello, This is an advertisement ... From: Tom Schum Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real?? To:
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment

            Hello,

            This is an advertisement

            --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
            From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
            Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
            To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 1:45 PM

            Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking point
            in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
            powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
            the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive coil
            has resistance so power losses are going to be large and unavoidable.

            There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
            plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up against
            the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.

            If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then remove
            the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first step.

            Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a little
            lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
            and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is already
            solved.
            http://www.kanetec. com/products/ magneticbase/ index.shtml

            Tom Schum

            --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@. ..>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Tom,
            >  
            > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in
            whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
            > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
            output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad idea
            to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
            permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
            from it.
            > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could
            be easily measured.
            >
            > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...>
            > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
            > To: free_energy@ yahoogroups. com
            > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are
            too
            > interesting for me so I am back.
            >
            > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
            > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use of
            > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
            >
            > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
            > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru
            the
            > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
            store
            > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do
            it
            > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense line).
            > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
            lots
            > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded thru
            > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
            > done by hand, under microscopes.
            >
            > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
            > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
            reverse
            > the magnetization.
            >
            > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
            > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
            video.
            >
            > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
            > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any other
            > means?"
            >
            > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
            > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when the
            > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
            >
            > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of
            uses
            > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
            > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
            >
            > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
            >
            > Tom Schum
            >
            > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
            > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
            > >
            > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
            > >
            > >
            > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on
            and
            > > off and can keep either state without external power.
            > >
            > >
            > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
            > >
            > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
            > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
            > > thousands of news sources
            > >
            > > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
            > > technology videos
            > >
            > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
            > >
            > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
            > >
            >


          • Tom Schum
            That s interesting. I had no intention of doing advertizing on this forum. I was mentioning a commercial product that is doing what some would like to do in
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              That's interesting. I had no intention of doing advertizing on this
              forum.

              I was mentioning a commercial product that is doing what some would
              like to do in free-energy: turn a permanent magnet on and off easily.

              Tom Schum

              --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, Mohammed Alkhamis
              <moh_alkhamis@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello,
              > This is an advertisement
              >
              > --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
              > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
              > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 1:45 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking
              point
              > in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
              > powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
              > the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive coil
              > has resistance so power losses are going to be large and
              unavoidable.
              >
              > There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
              > plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up
              against
              > the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.
              >
              > If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then remove
              > the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first step.
              >
              > Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a
              little
              > lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
              > and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is already
              > solved.
              > http://www.kanetec. com/products/ magneticbase/ index.shtml
              >
              > Tom Schum
              >
              > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@ ..>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Tom,
              > >  
              > > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in
              > whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
              > > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
              > output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad
              idea
              > to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
              > permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
              > from it.
              > > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could
              > be easily measured.
              > >
              > > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...> wrote:
              > >
              > > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...>
              > > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for
              real??
              > > To: free_energy@ yahoogroups. com
              > > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are
              > too
              > > interesting for me so I am back.
              > >
              > > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
              > > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use
              of
              > > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
              > >
              > > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
              > > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru
              > the
              > > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
              > store
              > > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do
              > it
              > > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense
              line).
              > > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
              > lots
              > > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded
              thru
              > > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
              > > done by hand, under microscopes.
              > >
              > > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
              > > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
              > reverse
              > > the magnetization.
              > >
              > > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
              > > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
              > video.
              > >
              > > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
              > > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any
              other
              > > means?"
              > >
              > > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
              > > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when
              the
              > > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
              > >
              > > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of
              > uses
              > > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
              > > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
              > >
              > > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
              > >
              > > Tom Schum
              > >
              > > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
              > > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on
              > and
              > > > off and can keep either state without external power.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
              > > >
              > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
              > > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
              > > > thousands of news sources
              > > >
              > > > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
              > > > technology videos
              > > >
              > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
              > > >
              > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Tom Schum
              Here at work we use Thorlabs MB175 magnetic bases. They have a holding force of 175 lbs when resting against 1/4 steel. I can tell you it is almost impossible
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Here at work we use Thorlabs MB175 magnetic bases.
                They have a holding force of 175 lbs when resting against 1/4" steel.

                I can tell you it is almost impossible to move this thing when the
                magnet is "on".

                To turn off the magnet you just rotate a knob using very little
                torque. It really is quite amazing, to control that much force with
                such a smooth-operating knob. I am guessing that with a few
                refinements the knob could operate more smoothly since I think they
                want to protect the user from accidentally turning off the magnet.

                Using something like this in a motor application might actually be
                feasible.

                What follows is not advertizing, but is presented to give you some
                idea how they look and some idea of the cost.

                Thorlabs sells this item for $48, and they are available from other
                sources for even less. Thorlabs states: "In order to make this
                product appropriate for optical bench applications (as opposed to its
                intended machine shop use) we have precision-ground the two bottom
                mating surfaces."

                It is about 50mm x 59mm x 55mm in size (about a 2" cube) and are
                pretty heavy for their size.

                The website www.thorlabs.com seems to be unavailable to me from this
                workstation at the moment, or I would give you a link.

                Tom Schum

                --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Schum" <thomasjschum@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > That's interesting. I had no intention of doing advertizing on
                this
                > forum.
                >
                > I was mentioning a commercial product that is doing what some would
                > like to do in free-energy: turn a permanent magnet on and off
                easily.
                >
                > Tom Schum
                >
                > --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, Mohammed Alkhamis
                > <moh_alkhamis@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello,
                > > This is an advertisement
                > >
                > > --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@> wrote:
                > >
                > > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@>
                > > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for
                real??
                > > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
                > > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 1:45 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking
                > point
                > > in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
                > > powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
                > > the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive
                coil
                > > has resistance so power losses are going to be large and
                > unavoidable.
                > >
                > > There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
                > > plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up
                > against
                > > the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.
                > >
                > > If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then
                remove
                > > the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first
                step.
                > >
                > > Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a
                > little
                > > lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
                > > and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is
                already
                > > solved.
                > > http://www.kanetec. com/products/ magneticbase/ index.shtml
                > >
                > > Tom Schum
                > >
                > > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Dick Seegers
                <xingu1306@ ..>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Tom,
                > > >  
                > > > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point
                in
                > > whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
                > > > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
                > > output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad
                > idea
                > > to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
                > > permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
                > > from it.
                > > > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output
                could
                > > be easily measured.
                > > >
                > > > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...>
                > > > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for
                > real??
                > > > To: free_energy@ yahoogroups. com
                > > > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics
                are
                > > too
                > > > interesting for me so I am back.
                > > >
                > > > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of
                the
                > > > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known
                use
                > of
                > > > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
                > > >
                > > > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind
                of
                > > > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire
                thru
                > > the
                > > > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
                > > store
                > > > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you
                do
                > > it
                > > > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense
                > line).
                > > > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
                > > lots
                > > > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded
                > thru
                > > > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was
                all
                > > > done by hand, under microscopes.
                > > >
                > > > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
                > > > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
                > > reverse
                > > > the magnetization.
                > > >
                > > > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same
                ferrite
                > > > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
                > > video.
                > > >
                > > > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
                > > > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any
                > other
                > > > means?"
                > > >
                > > > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
                > > > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when
                > the
                > > > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
                > > >
                > > > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots
                of
                > > uses
                > > > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
                > > > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
                > > >
                > > > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
                > > >
                > > > Tom Schum
                > > >
                > > > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
                > > > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned
                on
                > > and
                > > > > off and can keep either state without external power.
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
                > > > >
                > > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
                > > > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
                > > > > thousands of news sources
                > > > >
                > > > > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
                > > > > technology videos
                > > > >
                > > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
                > > > >
                > > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • murilo filo
                Hello guys! Nice to hear again Tom and Moh! Mohammed, pls take a look at the matter in this link, that also has its english version: http://www.cuerdaco
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello guys!
                  Nice to hear again Tom and Moh!
                  Mohammed, pls take a look at the matter in this link, that also has its english version:

                  http://www.cuerdaco ntinua.com/ cuerdacontinua/ web_po/index. html

                  Better is to check if these projects have nothing to see with your ideas.
                   
                  Bets regards.
                  Murilo SP nov/03




                  To: thomasjschum@...
                  CC: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
                  From: moh_alkhamis@...
                  Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 20:51:27 -0800
                  Subject: Re: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??


                  Hello,

                  This is an advertisement



                  --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
                  From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
                  Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                  To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 1:45 PM

                  Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking point
                  in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
                  powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
                  the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive coil
                  has resistance so power losses are going to be large and unavoidable.

                  There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
                  plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up against
                  the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.

                  If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then remove
                  the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first step.

                  Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a little
                  lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
                  and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is already
                  solved.
                  http://www.kanetec. com/products/ magneticbase/ index.shtml

                  Tom Schum

                  --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@. ..>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Tom,
                  >  
                  > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in
                  whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
                  > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
                  output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad idea
                  to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
                  permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
                  from it.
                  > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could
                  be easily measured.
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...>
                  > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                  > To: free_energy@ yahoogroups. com
                  > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are
                  too
                  > interesting for me so I am back.
                  >
                  > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
                  > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use of
                  > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
                  >
                  > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
                  > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru
                  the
                  > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
                  store
                  > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do
                  it
                  > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense line).
                  > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
                  lots
                  > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded thru
                  > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
                  > done by hand, under microscopes.
                  >
                  > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
                  > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
                  reverse
                  > the magnetization.
                  >
                  > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
                  > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
                  video.
                  >
                  > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
                  > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any other
                  > means?"
                  >
                  > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
                  > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when the
                  > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
                  >
                  > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of
                  uses
                  > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
                  > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
                  >
                  > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
                  >
                  > Tom Schum
                  >
                  > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
                  > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on
                  and
                  > > off and can keep either state without external power.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
                  > >
                  > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
                  > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
                  > > thousands of news sources
                  > >
                  > > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
                  > > technology videos
                  > >
                  > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
                  > >
                  > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
                  > >
                  >


                • Dick Seegers
                  Do you have any idea wether the Halbach array is used in this system? ... From: Tom Schum Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Do you have any idea wether the Halbach array is used in this system?

                    --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
                    From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
                    Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                    To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 10:45 PM

                    Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking point
                    in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
                    powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
                    the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive coil
                    has resistance so power losses are going to be large and unavoidable.

                    There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
                    plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up against
                    the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.

                    If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then remove
                    the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first step.

                    Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a little
                    lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
                    and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is already
                    solved.
                    http://www.kanetec. com/products/ magneticbase/ index.shtml

                    Tom Schum

                    --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@. ..>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Tom,
                    >  
                    > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in
                    whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
                    > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
                    output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad idea
                    to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
                    permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
                    from it.
                    > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could
                    be easily measured.
                    >
                    > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...>
                    > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                    > To: free_energy@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are
                    too
                    > interesting for me so I am back.
                    >
                    > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
                    > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use of
                    > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
                    >
                    > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
                    > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru
                    the
                    > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
                    store
                    > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do
                    it
                    > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense line).
                    > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
                    lots
                    > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded thru
                    > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
                    > done by hand, under microscopes.
                    >
                    > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
                    > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
                    reverse
                    > the magnetization.
                    >
                    > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
                    > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
                    video.
                    >
                    > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
                    > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any other
                    > means?"
                    >
                    > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
                    > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when the
                    > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
                    >
                    > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of
                    uses
                    > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
                    > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
                    >
                    > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
                    >
                    > Tom Schum
                    >
                    > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
                    > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on
                    and
                    > > off and can keep either state without external power.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
                    > >
                    > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
                    > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Tag keyword alternative energy article search - find and read
                    > > thousands of news sources
                    > >
                    > > http://blog. alternate- energy.net/ tags.php
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Advanced video archive search - alternative energy and green
                    > > technology videos
                    > >
                    > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/RES/index. php
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Updated alternative energy+green tech videos
                    > >
                    > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/vidpicks08. html
                    > >
                    >


                  • Tom Schum
                    I ve ordered one of these magnetic base devices, and will attempt to take it apart when I receive it. This might take a week (ups ground shipping and so on).
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 3, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I've ordered one of these magnetic base devices, and will attempt to
                      take it apart when I receive it.

                      This might take a week (ups ground shipping and so on).

                      Tom


                      --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Do you have any idea wether the Halbach array is used in this
                      system?
                      >
                      > --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@...>
                      > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                      > To: free_energy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 10:45 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Sure, you could use reversible magnets to overcome the sticking
                      point
                      > in a rotary motor, but this sort of magnetic material is far less
                      > powerful than neodymium or maybe even alnico. It has to be, since
                      > the drive coil has to be able to reverse its field. The drive coil
                      > has resistance so power losses are going to be large and
                      unavoidable.
                      >
                      > There might be a better way to do it: some sort of field-shunting
                      > plate that moves in front of the neo magnet. We are still up
                      against
                      > the same problem: moving that shunting plate takes energy.
                      >
                      > If one could shunt the field of a permanent magnet and then remove
                      > the shunt with minimal energy, that would be a very good first step.
                      >
                      > Machinists' clamps contain permanent magnets. You just move a
                      little
                      > lever to attach or release them. These are commercially available
                      > and have lots of holding power. Maybe the basic problem is already
                      > solved.
                      > http://www.kanetec. com/products/ magneticbase/ index.shtml
                      >
                      > Tom Schum
                      >
                      > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, Dick Seegers <xingu1306@ ..>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Tom,
                      > >  
                      > > In that case it would be simple to overcome the 'sticky' point in
                      > whatever motor- or generatordesign, wouldn't it?
                      > > Fact remains of course what you already suggested, wether the
                      > output surpasses the input in strength. And maybe it isn't a bad
                      idea
                      > to have t(w)o seperate circuits. One for feeding the 'reversible
                      > permanent' magnets and the other one taking the generated current
                      > from it.
                      > > It even makes measurements pretty easy. Input versus output could
                      > be easily measured.
                      > >
                      > > --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > From: Tom Schum <thomasjschum@ ...>
                      > > Subject: [free_energy] Re: A reversible permanent magnet..for
                      real??
                      > > To: free_energy@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 5:08 PM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I took an extended "vacation" from this group, but the topics are
                      > too
                      > > interesting for me so I am back.
                      > >
                      > > Reversible permanent magnets have been used since the dawn of the
                      > > digital age as core memory, not to mention a more well-known use
                      of
                      > > microscopic reversible magnets, in audio tape.
                      > >
                      > > In data storage, this involves a very small donut of some kind of
                      > > ferrite that has a big retentitivity, so when you run a wire thru
                      > the
                      > > center of the donut and hit it with a pulse of current, you can
                      > store
                      > > or "write" a bit of data in the core. To read the data out you do
                      > it
                      > > again and look at the reaction with a second wire (the sense
                      line).
                      > > Then when you get done you have to write the bit again. Putting
                      > lots
                      > > of these into an array involves additional wires, all threaded
                      thru
                      > > the hole in the donut. In the 1960s and 1970s this wiring was all
                      > > done by hand, under microscopes.
                      > >
                      > > The core is a reversible permanent magnet. The pulse of current
                      > > produces magnetic effects that overwhelm the retentivity and
                      > reverse
                      > > the magnetization.
                      > >
                      > > So, you could apply this same technology and use the same ferrite
                      > > material to make a reversible permanent magnet as seen in the
                      > video.
                      > >
                      > > The big question here is probably "does it take more energy to
                      > > reverse the magnetization than you could get out of it by any
                      other
                      > > means?"
                      > >
                      > > The answer to this is that it probably DOES take more energy to
                      > > reverse the magnetization, and this energy is lost as heat when
                      the
                      > > domains in the material are forcibly realigned (or un-aligned).
                      > >
                      > > Reversible magnets are great up to a point, and I'm sure lots of
                      > uses
                      > > could be found for them. I don't think it would be particularly
                      > > difficult to make them "shut off" as well as reverse, too.
                      > >
                      > > Probably not particularly useful for energy generation, though.
                      > >
                      > > Tom Schum
                      > >
                      > > --- In free_energy@ yahoogroups. com, "tallex2002"
                      > > <altenergynetwork@ ...> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > A reversible permanent magnet..for real??
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > A reversible permanent magnet is a magnet that can be turned on
                      > and
                      > > > off and can keep either state without external power.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > http://eusaj. notlong.com
                      > > >
                      > > > http://www.alternat e-energy. net/Z/video/ 0/video/magnetic %
                      > > > 20pulser/DGab9- zDUb8.html
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
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