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Re: to Bob Dubner

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  • Bob Lerwill
    To MCarp This cannot go unchallenged. Apart from the obvious hyperbole of 531,216,934 victories, 0 defeats is also questionable. I too enjoy Bob s responses. I
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 1, 2001
      To MCarp

      This cannot go unchallenged. Apart from the obvious hyperbole of
      531,216,934 victories, 0 defeats is also questionable.

      I too enjoy Bob's responses. I too hope he will not cease. However
      can I remind you that this is primarily a group for sceptics. If you
      are certain that free energy is impossible, there is no place for you
      here. Please tell me this is not your position.

      I have posted two ideas for perpetual motion. I have had intelligent
      but unconvincing responses from a very few about one idea, and no
      responses from anyone (including you Mr Carp) about the other (the
      simpler one detailed in posts 2182 and 2189). Bob himself has
      responded to the more complicated and less useful one (post 1869) and
      said that firstly that he does not know enough about Physics to
      comment, secondly that he does not have the time to investigate
      (unless I pay for his time, which I would be quite willing to do; if
      he claimed to be competent in the field), and thirdly that he does
      not understand the point anyway. This is all perfectly reasonable,
      but I am sure Bob would be the first to adnmit this hardly consitutes
      a rebuttal.

      I have not had time to go through all the posts before I joined, but
      I am confident that I am not the only one in that position. I have
      never seen any comment about the dark-light project for example.
      There have been many ignorant claims and a few possibly fraudulant
      claims, but do not promulgate the notion that all claims have been
      roundly dismissed.

      Bob Lerwill.

      P.S. I recognise that the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but
      sometimes it is worth checking the recipe before you spend money on
      the ingredients. If you address the question to a group of people who
      believe that all puddings taste foul, you will not get a useful
      answer. On the other hand if you address the question to a group of
      people who believe all puddings taste wonderful even if they have
      never eaten one, the answer is equally unuseful. Where are the people
      who appreciate the value of open, informed and inquisitive minds (and
      extended metaphores)?

      --- In free_energy@y..., mcarp@m... wrote:
      > I have felt throughout my time on this list that your responses
      nail down many more flaws in much more elegant tones than almost all
      of the other posts. dhowe17 seems to do a good job too. I
      especially liked some stuff from Tom Napier, where ever he is.....
      anway, I wish you would continue to post your long and technical
      responses to the nincompoop claims as said claims are shot down quite
      well by said responses. I have archived all the free_energy
      messages. Its getting quite large now :) I'm not an engineer. I do
      have some pretty good understanding of basic physics and maths and
      your posts usually confirm my position on these matters.
      >
      > Again, please continue to post. You may be bored, but I think its
      worth it. I certainly am not bored by reading your posts.
      >
      > Bob Dubner: 531,216,934
      > Free Energy Inventors: -0-
    • Charles Ford
      At 12:30 AM 10/27/01 -0400, mcarp@mcarp.org wrote: I have felt throughout my time on this list that your responses nail down many more flaws in much more
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 1, 2001
        At 12:30 AM 10/27/01 -0400, mcarp@... wrote:
        >I have felt throughout my time on this list that your responses nail down
        >many more flaws in much more elegant tones than almost all of the other
        >posts. dhowe17 seems to do a good job too. I especially liked some stuff
        >from Tom Napier, where ever he is..... anway, I wish you would continue
        >to post your long and technical responses to the nincompoop claims as said
        >claims are shot down quite well by said responses. I have archived all
        >the free_energy messages. Its getting quite large now :) I'm not an
        >engineer. I do have some pretty good understanding of basic physics and
        >maths and your posts usually confirm my position on these matters.
        >
        >Again, please continue to post. You may be bored, but I think its worth
        >it. I certainly am not bored by reading your posts.
        >
        >Bob Dubner: 531,216,934
        >Free Energy Inventors: -0-


        That is an impressive score :-)

        I do however offer a positive note for the "nincompoop claims" Some of
        these are rather clever. If you drop the basic background rules and go
        searching for the actual mechanism of failure it is frequently quite dificult.

        Bravo Bob :-)


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      • paul@wayxcable.com
        Bob Dubner: 531,216,934 Free Energy Inventors: -0- you guys are funny. but you will change as needed. wont you. you will suck up to what ever the norm
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 1, 2001
          Bob Dubner: 531,216,934
          Free Energy Inventors: -0-

          you guys are funny.
          but you will change as needed. wont you.
          you will suck up to what ever the norm becomes.
          until then you will cling to what your norm is now.
          I can almost see you now standing in a dark corner somewhere
          watching and listening for the results then you will know
          just what your peers are thinking and if they change then
          you will change also like a puppy following his master.
          free energy / overunity is in now.
          and being used now.

          its a little new and still being tested and tuned but working well.
          so if you cling to your current ideas then you may find yourself
          refered to as the crackpots in the physics community.
          the new found knowledge demonstrated by the new breed of students in
          physics. points to a denial of belief in the current norm of physics
          theory mainly the theory of the laws of physics that have been so
          cleverly manuvered by those who have a interest in the sale of energy.
          these student do not look to words they look to thought.
          they apply a combination of math and thought.
          not just math and repeated words someone else wrote.
          they are not limited to what they can achieve.
          as you are.
          they / you laughed and scoffed at many.
          its easy to laugh and scoff . its also easy to lurk in corners.
          its hard to try new things when there are so many old things
          in your way. bob lerwill just doesnt understand yet that there
          really is a dark or evil force that prevents free energy from
          being used as many now do. try it yourself just try to get funding
          for a free energy device other than radiant energy from the sun.
          you want proof just take a water pump apart and examine the size and
          diameter of the impeller use your physics skills and determine if
          this impeller would pump more water were it a different design.
          youve got a massive potential centrifugal force that is swept clean
          by design.
          youve got such a small vacume producing area that the pump
          relies on that almost all of the pumps back up your theorys.
          the best machine to use to back up your theories is the gas engine.
          you use a explosion to propel a piston then you stop it and reverse
          its direction can anybody say waste energy?
          you can call this dark or evil force what you want I call it greed.
          not need. whos pockets are lined by the sale of fuel?
          how many people are currently using free energy to
          power part or all of their energy needs?
          how many people are keeping quiet about it?
        • Bob Dubner
          ... Paul, you are absolutely correct. I am no genius. The ideas I ve had have not been world changing. I never claimed they were. World-changing ideas tend
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 2, 2001
            > you guys are funny.
            > but you will change as needed. wont you.
            > you will suck up to what ever the norm becomes.
            > until then you will cling to what your norm is now.

            Paul, you are absolutely correct. I am no genius. The ideas I've had have
            not been world changing. I never claimed they were.

            World-changing ideas tend to look wacky at first, true. But that doesn't
            mean that all wacky ideas are world-changing, the vast majority of them are
            just wacky.

            If you've read my posts carefully, you've seen that I don't say that
            inexpensive energy is impossible. I do say that it will require new
            principles, and that it will be very interesting to see how any new
            principles incorporate the current "Laws of Thermodynamics" as a possible
            limiting case.

            Meanwhile, when I see a mechanical gadget of any kind of ordinary table-top
            dimensions, I know that it is bound by the laws of thermodynamics. I know
            that just like I know that a race car, no matter how fast, will never behave
            in a way that requires the General Theory of Relativity to analyze.
            Newton's principles will work just fine.

            Meanwhile, you are right about reciprocating internal combustion engines.
            Turbines of various kinds are more efficient. But it isn't an evil
            conspiracy that maintains the momentum of the RIC engine. We have a hundred
            year's worth of development invested in them; engineers and mechanics and
            the buying public all understand them. Gasoline doesn't work so well in gas
            turbines, and it works even worse in steam engines, which are my personal
            favorite. Turbines sound different, and behave differently when they start
            and when they accelerate. Switching over to the "better" technology would
            be a cast iron bitch, which would involve tremendous costs, which would take
            so long to recoup that we are kind of stuck with what we have.

            But the economics dictate the situation, not a "star chamber" of some kind.
          • Heli
            Hi Paul, Your previous post finally did it! I have been a member of this group for over 9 months now, and you have inspired me to write my first post.
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 2, 2001
              Hi Paul,
              Your previous post finally did it! I have been a member of this
              group for over 9 months now, and you have inspired me to write my
              first post.
              Presently the USA imports over 50% of the petroleum we use from
              abroad. That's right, over 50%.
              There has been a tranfer of weatlth of hundreds of billions of
              dollars from the USA to these mid east oil producing countries, and
              it continues every day.
              If as you said below, that overunity devices exist today, then
              there would be thousands of them in peoples basements heating our
              homes, running our refrigerators, powering these computers that we
              use to communicate on the internet, and I would have one in the trunk
              of my car to produce free energy to power it.
              Instead of driving all around the country trying to lure
              investors, you and your pals should start making them available Right
              Now! That would enable us to eliminate our dependence on mideast
              oil. If you did that, You would go down in the History of the World
              as being more famous that Osama BinLaden. That way we could tell all
              those mid east countries to use their oil to irrigate their crops in
              their desserts, or use it to oil their wooden wagon wheels.
              So Paul, it is now time, you can become one of the biggest Heros
              and Patriots in American History. Not only that, you would become
              a "gazillionaire", and with your math experience, only you will know
              how much that is.
              Let's get these devices in production and in everyone's basements
              and small businesses.
              We're all counting on you and your pals!!!
              Heli M.

              ========================================================

              --- In free_energy@y..., paul@w... wrote:
              > overunity is in now.
              > and being used now.
              > its a little new and still being tested and tuned but working well.
              > how many people are currently using free energy to
              > power part or all of their energy needs?
              > how many people are keeping quiet about it?
            • paul@wayxcable.com
              Hello Heli thank you for that input its nice to see that someone in this group cares enough to have the courage to let his or her opinion of the mass of energy
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 4, 2001
                Hello Heli
                thank you for that input its nice to see that someone in this group
                cares enough to have the courage to let his or her opinion of the
                mass of energy we import and burn be voiced.
                I alone produce over 13,000 pounds of the various polutants per year.
                it seems that the polutants produced from generating electricity is
                over a thousand pounds per thousand killo watt hours!!!!
                weve come a long way baby.

                http://www.cleanerandgreener.org/pollution-from-electricity.htm

                heres the beef.

                Oil and natural gas are the dominant fuels in the U.S.economy
                ( note the statement U.S. economy )
                providing
                ( 62 percent )
                of the nations energy and
                ( almost 100 percent of its transportation fuels)
                By 2020 the Energy Information Administration expects the

                United States will need about ( 50 percent more )
                natural gas and one-third more oil to meet demand.

                U.S.oil production is expected to decline over the next two
                decades.Over the same period demand for natural gas will
                most likely continue to outpace domestic production.
                As a result the United States will rely increasingly on imports of
                both natural gas and oil from Canada and imports of
                oil and liquefied natural gas from producers across the globe.

                look at figure 5.5 on the below page
                http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy/Chapter5.pdf

                the stressed point I make here is that it will be the burning of
                fuels that power our nation and since it is a proffiteering situation
                and the reduction of polution cost money then the reduction will be
                slim to none as it is today.

                why I ask with the massive force of ocean waves and wind power and
                solar power and power from the flows of water is the green renewable
                line horizontal?

                the answer money....you caint sell waves, sun light , wind , gravity.
                but you can sell pollution in massive quanities.

                money...money...money...money............................MONEY.

                and dont expect our fine department of energy or epa to help.
                its that simple.its where they get their money. make sence?

                I am having visions of a wearable air supply system for the future
                and I can sell fresh air to those who want to venture outside for
                some ungodly reason. I figure $10.00 per minute would be a reasonable
                price after all it cost a lot to extract oxygen from water.
                there are some shops already set up that sell oxygen to the public
                kind of like a coffee shop. wow think of what meat will cost when the
                farmers have to buy oxygen for the livestock to keep them alive long
                enough to butcher them. and vegetables. we sure better be capable of
                selling alot of pollution to cover all that cost.

                I for one will keep on keepin on . and if I mispell something Im sure
                that someone will correct it for me.
                after all spelling is more important just like profit is more
                important. right?




                --- In free_energy@y..., "Heli" <Heli21@h...> wrote:
                > Hi Paul,
                > Your previous post finally did it! I have been a member of this
                > group for over 9 months now, and you have inspired me to write my
                > first post.
                > Presently the USA imports over 50% of the petroleum we use from
                > abroad. That's right, over 50%.
                > There has been a tranfer of weatlth of hundreds of billions of
                > dollars from the USA to these mid east oil producing countries, and
                > it continues every day.
                > If as you said below, that overunity devices exist today, then
                > there would be thousands of them in peoples basements heating our
                > homes, running our refrigerators, powering these computers that we
                > use to communicate on the internet, and I would have one in the
                trunk
                > of my car to produce free energy to power it.
                > Instead of driving all around the country trying to lure
                > investors, you and your pals should start making them available
                Right
                > Now! That would enable us to eliminate our dependence on mideast
                > oil. If you did that, You would go down in the History of the
                World
                > as being more famous that Osama BinLaden. That way we could tell
                all
                > those mid east countries to use their oil to irrigate their crops
                in
                > their desserts, or use it to oil their wooden wagon wheels.
                > So Paul, it is now time, you can become one of the biggest Heros
                > and Patriots in American History. Not only that, you would become
                > a "gazillionaire", and with your math experience, only you will
                know
                > how much that is.
                > Let's get these devices in production and in everyone's
                basements
                > and small businesses.
                > We're all counting on you and your pals!!!
                > Heli M.
                >
                > ========================================================
                >
                > --- In free_energy@y..., paul@w... wrote:
                > > overunity is in now.
                > > and being used now.
                > > its a little new and still being tested and tuned but working
                well.
                > > how many people are currently using free energy to
                > > power part or all of their energy needs?
                > > how many people are keeping quiet about it?
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