- From: "Eric" <ubavontuba@y...>

Date: Tue Feb 1, 2005 4:16 am

Subject: Re: Free energy, or not?

>I couldn't have tread on eggshells more gingerly.

Chaos has nothing to do with it.

>

>Of course you are right in that the conservation laws are upheld.

>

>You are also right in knowing that there must be chaotic differences

>to both pushes.

Consider the orientation of the contact surface over the duration of

the "push". Resolve the force into components normal and parallel to

this surface. If you consider sliding motion along this surface, you

can even account for the work that's converted to heat via friction.

If you consider the rotation of the "pushee", and the possibility

that the moment arm length goes to zero before the desired amount of

momentum is imparted you can explain all the issues raised here

(somebody mentioned a glancing blow and the "efficiency" (sic) of the

push).

A free-body diagram and writing out the equations of motion works

wonders.

>Chaotic differences abound in anything more complicated than a

Even in impacts with highly plastic deformations, no chaos theory is

>perfect BB gently nudging a perfectly smooth wall (I did write a bit

>about chaos awhile back).

required. Consider elasticity, plasticity, hysteresis, adhesion,

changes in coefficient of friction with force/speed, etc. Nothing

we've talked about in the physical interactions of macro scale

physical bodies requires the introduction of chaos theory. - --- In free_energy@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. J" <jaemsjohn@y...> wrote:
>

The light is on. More information without geometry. Look, there are

> >

> > No, "information" is not geometry. My car is silver.

>

> that paint has a geometry that will interact with

> light.

>

zillions of examples of information that is not dimensional or

geometry related.

>

Numbers as used here are conceptual. Maybe there are no "things" being

> > Information

> > without geometry. Two plus two is four. More

>

> two + two is 4.. 4 of what? what is the shape of 2,

> how do you know it is two?

>

counted, only conepts. Maybe philosophies that fit a certain

description, maybe states of information available in a binary bit.

None of these are geometric.

> > information without

There you go, power is non-directional, it is the rate of energy over

> > geometry. The light bulb uses 100 watts. Even more.

>

time.

> > Mass has a location, but its size, etc, are really

But these are probabilities over time. I know quantum mechanics isn't

> > only probabilities

> > at very small scales. A proton doesn't have a

> > "shape" in the

> > conventional sense.

>

> True it probably has shapes.. propbably waves

> interacting in patterns.. patterns are geometry

>

easy, but at very small scales geometry isn't as concrete as it is at

our scales. Combining motion with position gets VERY fuzzy, in a

probablistic way. For example, atoms would not "look" like little

billiard balls, but would be better represented by foggy, wispy clouds

with no real hard shape. Those orbiting electrons do not follow paths

as we know them on our scales, but sort of exist with different

likelihoods at different places.

>

Did you see that? Units of mass are also scalar quantities.

> >

> > Anyway, mass, too, is a scalar quantity. "Kilograms"

> > has no

> > directionality, so both sides of the equation,

> > e=mc^2, are scalar

> > (which is a good thing).

> >

> > quantities). But integrate the a over time to get v

It may seem wrong to you, but it isn't. The equations work on our

> > and you maintain

> > its directionality. But SQUARE the v, as in

> > E=0.5mv^2, and you lose

> > its vector. See, even if v was a negative number it

> > will square to the

> > same value. So energy cannot express direction.

>

> true and that seems wrong to me. It has to.. just

> because the equations cancel it out don't meant they

> are perfect.

>

ordinary scales and, at relativistic scales, can be corrected to work.

The energy of a bowling ball rolling toward the pins has NO

directionality. The ball's momentum does, of course, but its energy

does not. It would have the same energy even if it was rolling away

from the pins at the same speed.