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Re: [fred_harvey] Re: Goldthwaite, Texas

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  • sfrr@aol.com
    Harvey History is filled with many holes. As I have stated on occasion, there is a wealth of information available but it has to be researched. I ran through
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 1, 2011
      Harvey History is filled with many holes.  As I have stated on occasion, there is a wealth of information available but it has to be researched.  I ran through some of my Official Guide to the Railway books recently and found many references to Harvey lunchrooms that are not listed in the books on the Harvey Empire.

      On of my favorites is Ripley, OK. Somewhere in this group archive is my description. 

      There are also references to Fred Harvey on other railroads outside of the Santa Fe. I found an advertisement for a Harvey operation on the Katy that I saved.  I think it really calls for an extensive, documented search, such as what Michael has done. 

      Evan Stair



      -----Original Message-----
      From: harvey_house <harvey_house@...>
      To: fred_harvey@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 9:37 am
      Subject: [fred_harvey] Re: Goldthwaite, Texas

       
      Three Fourth of Julys ago, I was at the Mills County Museum in Goldthwaite, Texas [see email below] asking about any possible Harvey House there. They have a set of copper pots and pans that say "SANTA FE" on them and are said to be from a Harvey House, which would make sense, with that sort of stamp. But which one? The lady I talked to wasn't aware of a Harvey House there.

      Well, this month, I get a letter from her, after discovering my business card cleaning house, saying she found a history book of the area with a reference to a harvey House there for nine years! I'm hoping she will re-locate the book and send me a scan of the reference. I don't know if there are any more details given beside that. It would be nice.

      I of course told her people sometimes used the term "Harvey House" generically to refer to any railroad eatery. But, there are those two hazy references in the Harvey books...

      If I hear anything, I'll let you know.

      --Michael

      --- In fred_harvey@yahoogroups.com, "Michael McMillan" <harvey_house@...> wrote:
      >
      > Goldthwaite is a Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe Railway town named after
      > a railroad official.
      >
      > Goldthwaite is listed in both "The Harvey House Cookbook" and "Meals
      > by Fred Harvey." But nothing else is given, no dates or anything.
      > There is even a question mark after the town's name in "Meals by Fred
      > Harvey."
      >
      > We generally go through Goldthwaite on the 6-hr drive down to my
      > father's. This past Easter, I stopped to try to locate where the old
      > depot was and see if the Mills County Museum was open. I think I
      > could find remains of the passenger platform, and there is a RR sign
      > with the town's name on it at that location. The museum a block away
      > was closed, but I left my card in the door.
      >
      > Well, we went back down over the weekend for the Fourth of July. This
      > time the museum was open. Walking in the door, I told the lady in the
      > museum I was interested in anything about the railroad. The first
      > thing she said was, did I see the pots and pans from a Harvey House?
      > This was before I mentioned Fred Harvey, so that was quite a surprise.
      >
      > They have one display with a ATSF baggage cart that has some old
      > luggage on it and some very heavy old copper pots. There is a rack
      > with copper pans hanging behind this and above the rack is a big old
      > Santa Fe blueprint of the town.
      >
      > The kitchen pots do say "SANTA FE" on them, but there is no sign or
      > description of what they are or where they came from. The woman
      > didn't know anything about Fred Harvey being in Goldthwaite. She gave
      > me the number of someone else to contact about all this.
      >
      > See my photo of these pots and pans in the "Harvey Restaurant" Album.
      >
      > The museum display had pictures of the old wooden depot and the newer
      > masonry one (neither are still there). The blueprint showed where
      > they were. I believe the original wooden depot later became
      > known/used as the freight depot, based upon how some of the pictures
      > were labelled. I had guessed right on the location of the masonry
      > depot. From the picture I could tell it was "I" shaped. Going back to
      > the site, I could actually see the foundation that has been
      > incorporated into the newer foundation of a larger pecan warehouse.
      > The wider ends of the depot's foundation can be seen sticking out
      > from the side of the warehouse's longer foundation.
      >
      > Neither depot looked big enough from the pictures to have a Harvey
      > eating establishment. If anything, perhaps there was a News Stand in
      > the later depot, but one wasn't visible in the picture they had,
      > though there was a large set of trackside windows that looked like
      > they could be used as such.
      >
      > There was a hotel or two next to these depots, but I don't know
      > anything about those. A picture in the museum called the hotel behind
      > the old depot the "Allen Hotel," saying it burnt in 1910. Here is a
      > poor, supposedly 1921 picture of a "depot hotel" with the old depot
      > in the distance:
      >
      > http://www.atsfry.com/EasternArchive/Photo/database/000717.htm
      >
      > The newer depot would later be built in the right foreground, I don't
      > know when, or perhaps is just out of view to the right. Judging from
      > the dates, the "depot hotel" in this picture cannot be the "Allen
      > Hotel" in the picture at the museum.
      >
      > Hope everyone had a safe and happy Fourth.
      >
      > --Michael
      >

    • Michael McMillan
      ... Evan--   It would be neat to hear where some of those lost Harvey Houses were. Where was the Katy one? I remember your telling us about Ripley.  
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 1, 2011
        > I ran through some of my Official Guide to the Railway books recently and found many references to Harvey lunchrooms that are not listed in the books on the Harvey Empire.
        Evan--
         
        It would be neat to hear where some of those "lost" Harvey Houses were. Where was the Katy one? I remember your telling us about Ripley.
         
        Happy Fourth,
         
        Michael

        From: "sfrr@..." <sfrr@...>
        To: fred_harvey@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 7:58 AM
        Subject: Re: [fred_harvey] Re: Goldthwaite, Texas

         
        Harvey History is filled with many holes.  As I have stated on occasion, there is a wealth of information available but it has to be researched.  I ran through some of my Official Guide to the Railway books recently and found many references to Harvey lunchrooms that are not listed in the books on the Harvey Empire.

        On of my favorites is Ripley, OK. Somewhere in this group archive is my description. 

        There are also references to Fred Harvey on other railroads outside of the Santa Fe. I found an advertisement for a Harvey operation on the Katy that I saved.  I think it really calls for an extensive, documented search, such as what Michael has done. 

        Evan Stair



        -----Original Message-----
        From: harvey_house <harvey_house@...>
        To: fred_harvey@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 9:37 am
        Subject: [fred_harvey] Re: Goldthwaite, Texas

         
        Three Fourth of Julys ago, I was at the Mills County Museum in Goldthwaite, Texas [see email below] asking about any possible Harvey House there. They have a set of copper pots and pans that say "SANTA FE" on them and are said to be from a Harvey House, which would make sense, with that sort of stamp. But which one? The lady I talked to wasn't aware of a Harvey House there.

        Well, this month, I get a letter from her, after discovering my business card cleaning house, saying she found a history book of the area with a reference to a harvey House there for nine years! I'm hoping she will re-locate the book and send me a scan of the reference. I don't know if there are any more details given beside that. It would be nice.

        I of course told her people sometimes used the term "Harvey House" generically to refer to any railroad eatery. But, there are those two hazy references in the Harvey books...

        If I hear anything, I'll let you know.

        --Michael

        --- In fred_harvey@yahoogroups.com, "Michael McMillan" <harvey_house@...> wrote:
        >
        > Goldthwaite is a Gulf, Colorado & Santa Fe Railway town named after
        > a railroad official.
        >
        > Goldthwaite is listed in both "The Harvey House Cookbook" and "Meals
        > by Fred Harvey." But nothing else is given, no dates or anything.
        > There is even a question mark after the town's name in "Meals by Fred
        > Harvey."
        >
        > We generally go through Goldthwaite on the 6-hr drive down to my
        > father's. This past Easter, I stopped to try to locate where the old
        > depot was and see if the Mills County Museum was open. I think I
        > could find remains of the passenger platform, and there is a RR sign
        > with the town's name on it at that location. The museum a block away
        > was closed, but I left my card in the door.
        >
        > Well, we went back down over the weekend for the Fourth of July. This
        > time the museum was open. Walking in the door, I told the lady in the
        > museum I was interested in anything about the railroad. The first
        > thing she said was, did I see the pots and pans from a Harvey House?
        > This was before I mentioned Fred Harvey, so that was quite a surprise.
        >
        > They have one display with a ATSF baggage cart that has some old
        > luggage on it and some very heavy old copper pots. There is a rack
        > with copper pans hanging behind this and above the rack is a big old
        > Santa Fe blueprint of the town.
        >
        > The kitchen pots do say "SANTA FE" on them, but there is no sign or
        > description of what they are or where they came from. The woman
        > didn't know anything about Fred Harvey being in Goldthwaite. She gave
        > me the number of someone else to contact about all this.
        >
        > See my photo of these pots and pans in the "Harvey Restaurant" Album.
        >
        > The museum display had pictures of the old wooden depot and the newer
        > masonry one (neither are still there). The blueprint showed where
        > they were. I believe the original wooden depot later became
        > known/used as the freight depot, based upon how some of the pictures
        > were labelled. I had guessed right on the location of the masonry
        > depot. From the picture I could tell it was "I" shaped. Going back to
        > the site, I could actually see the foundation that has been
        > incorporated into the newer foundation of a larger pecan warehouse.
        > The wider ends of the depot's foundation can be seen sticking out
        > from the side of the warehouse's longer foundation.
        >
        > Neither depot looked big enough from the pictures to have a Harvey
        > eating establishment. If anything, perhaps there was a News Stand in
        > the later depot, but one wasn't visible in the picture they had,
        > though there was a large set of trackside windows that looked like
        > they could be used as such.
        >
        > There was a hotel or two next to these depots, but I don't know
        > anything about those. A picture in the museum called the hotel behind
        > the old depot the "Allen Hotel," saying it burnt in 1910. Here is a
        > poor, supposedly 1921 picture of a "depot hotel" with the old depot
        > in the distance:
        >
        > http://www.atsfry.com/EasternArchive/Photo/database/000717.htm
        >
        > The newer depot would later be built in the right foreground, I don't
        > know when, or perhaps is just out of view to the right. Judging from
        > the dates, the "depot hotel" in this picture cannot be the "Allen
        > Hotel" in the picture at the museum.
        >
        > Hope everyone had a safe and happy Fourth.
        >
        > --Michael
        >



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