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Re: Denison Fred Harvey operation?

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  • harvey_house
    ... Did that go back to the era of the Lunch Counter Card? My guess is about 1905-1912. ... Good question, Dennis! ... Thanks for the Katy waitresses picture,
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 1, 2010
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      > Hospitality magazine, a hotel/food service trade magazine

      Did that go back to the era of the Lunch Counter Card? My guess is about 1905-1912.

      > When did the Frisco contract systemwide with the Fred Harvey Company for dining car and depot food service?

      Good question, Dennis!

      ~~~~

      > Here is a link showing the uniforms worn by the Katy waitresses.

      Thanks for the Katy waitresses picture, Chris. Definitely different than all the Harvey ones I've seen. And the postcard uniforms are more Harvey-looking.

      > "The Denison Hotel is operated by the M.K.& T. Hotel and Eating House System, Frank E. Miller, Superintendent."

      What is the age of that brochure? Do you have any scans of the Denison dining facilities?

      ~~~~

      While we're in NE Texas, I'm curious about Paris. There was obviously a news stand -- it's still there. But some early Harvey postcard maps show a red circle, which means you could eat there, too. It is not marked on the earliest postcard map I have, which doesn't show Houston, Slaton or Sweetwater, either. But it is on two others, which interestingly also circle Oklahoma City. Those two cities are only shown on those two map cards. I don't know if it is an error, or what. Is dining ever mentioned on the timetables for Paris or Oklahoma City?

      --Michael


      --- In fred_harvey@yahoogroups.com, CCruz74583@... wrote:
      >
      > Yes, there is reason to be cautious in regards to Denison as a Fred Harvey
      > operation. First of all, post cards CAN be labeled incorrectly! When one
      > looks at that card, it exudes all of the elements of a Harvey facility.
      > Since Denison was a rather large stop, it would seem logical for the dining
      > operation to be better known than some of the small communities that we
      > know had Harvey facilities. Thus, how could it have been missed as a Harvey
      > operation if it was associated with the Frisco?
      >
      > Here is a link showing the uniforms worn by the Katy waitresses. (this
      > photo is from HIllsboro, TX) Additional photos can be found in the small
      > MK&T brochure, "Trade Follows the Flag, Travel Follows Good Eating Hotels."
      >
      > _http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/TexiKan/?action=view¤t=Hillsbor
      > oTXKatywaitresses.jpg_
      > (http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/TexiKan/?action=view¤t=HillsboroTXKatywaitresses.jpg)
      >
      > Later photos show the waitresses in all white uniforms. Still, it is
      > clear that the postcard is not a Katy operation.
      >
      > Another factor for consideration is the fact that the MK&T brochure (which
      > has many small photos of the stations and the dining/lunch rooms) details
      > the facilities of the Denison HOTEL: "The Denison Hotel is operated by the
      > M.K.& T. Hotel and Eating House System, Frank E. Miller, Superintendent."
      > The photo shows the dining room but finding any identifying traits between
      > the postcard and the photo are difficult, which may be because of the
      > angle. The room appears to be about the same, general size and the columns
      > appear to be the same. Likewise the dining chairs have a similar style as the
      > counter chairs. So, the question seems to be, who operated the eating
      > facilities at Union Station in Denison and when did they change?
      >
      > When Frank Miller was active, the system operation was impressive. Katy
      > timetables identify specific stations " under the immediate supervision of
      > Frank E. Miller." However, other stations, including St. Louis, Hannibal,
      > Kansas City, Ft. Worth and Galveston were in union stations and met the Katy
      > standards of service. Note, Denison is not mentioned at that time. Later
      > on, facilities were cut and operations were reduced. Eventually, Union News
      > took over. So, the question remains.......was there a time that Fred
      > Harvey operated in Denison Union Station through the Frisco?
      >
      > Further research will be needed. The fact that some publications do not
      > cover such things frustrating. Try finding more information on the first
      > Harvey facility here in Topeka! As a former newspaper person, I am more
      > conscious of sources and documentation. As a point of this, I have long
      > doubted the use of a china pattern on the Katy because of a lack of
      > documentation. Facts have finally started to appear. Unfortunately, there are no
      > photos to back them up.
      >
      > Chris Cruz
      >
    • CCruz74583@aol.com
      The Hospitality magazine is a great source for details and information. I found some great information on a couple of John J. Grier (The Fred Harvey of
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 1, 2010
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        The Hospitality magazine is a great source for details and information.  I found some great information on a couple of John J. Grier (The "Fred Harvey" of the Rock Island) locations.  Not sure of the dates of the magazines but they are turn of the century and later.
         
        At this time I do not have the dates of the Frisco Harvey alliance.  Items marked for both Frisco and Fred Harvey are rare.  Unfortunately, I believe the partnership did not last too long, resulting in little evidence and artifacts.
         
        The rare MK&T brochure is not dated but the back system map shows the Hannibal subdivision and pictures the Parsons depot that burned in 1912.  I have estimated it to be of 1900-1910 vintage.  Around 1913, another Superintendent replaced Frank Miller. As I said, the photos in this brochure are quite small but there is one of the Denison dining room and another of the exterior of the Denison Hotel.  I will get copies.
         
        Chris Cruz
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