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Re: [foss.in] Skill Set Sessions!

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  • Akarsh Simha
    Hi I feel that such sessions will be useful to many. As Pradeepto said, these could mostly be hands-on sessions where you bring your laptop and go through it
    Message 1 of 28 , Jun 1, 2008
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      Hi

      I feel that such sessions will be useful to many. As Pradeepto said,
      these could mostly be hands-on sessions where you bring your laptop
      and go through it along with the speaker.

      I noticed that myself, and many of my friends who attended FOSS.IN
      couldn't make much sense of what was being presented, because we had
      no prior exposure to FOSS development, and I believe that the majority
      of students who attend FOSS.IN will fall into a similar category, so
      students who have never contributed to FOSS before would prefer to go
      to one of these sessions and pick up their SVN fundas first than learn
      more about the codebase of Firefox or KDE.

      One more thing I feel should be demonstrated is the use already
      existing APIs to simplify one's task. Students who come from the Turbo
      C++ world usually don't know what a library means and sometimes end up
      reinventing the wheel [This was the case with me too.]

      Regards
      Akarsh


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sashank Dara
      ... What do you think FOSS is ? Students are worried about job and employability , every body is worried about it no wonder but FOSS is for those who are more
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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        > The philosophy and stories of geekdom still don't impress them much.
        > What we want is a more practical reason, a more practical display
        > of being a part of the FOSS community. These days students are
        > mainly worried about employability and how everything they get
        > involved can take them towards a high-paying dream job.

        What do you think FOSS is ? Students are worried about job and
        employability , every body is worried about it no wonder but FOSS is
        for those who are more worried about learning , contributing , sharing
        , growing together , Please don't mix up both .


        >
        > I noticed that myself, and many of my friends who attended FOSS.IN
        > couldn't make much sense of what was being presented, because we had
        > no prior exposure to FOSS development, and I believe that the
        > majority of students who attend FOSS.IN will fall into a similar
        > category, so students who have never contributed to FOSS before
        > would prefer to go to one of these sessions and pick up their SVN
        > fundas first than learn more about the code base of Firefox or KDE.

        This was because last years FOSS was not targeted for newbies ,
        sorry to say there was huge discussion on the focus of FOSS.in/2007 ,
        i don't know and don't want to comment on how many actually FOSS
        developers were born shutting doors to newbies.

        >
        > One more thing I feel should be demonstrated is the use already
        > existing APIs to simplify one's task. Students who come from the
        >Turbo C++ world usually don't know what a library means and
        >sometimes end up reinventing the wheel [This was the case with me too.]

        what do you expect from FOSS.in ? , spoon feeding on what libraries
        are ? or a training institute to teach u PHP , Python ?

        Just to make it clear , am not actually shutting gates for NEWBIES ,
        they should be welcome always , my strong vote for welcoming newbies
        in taking ahead the FOSS movement and adopting it in big way ,
        but definitely this is not the way to welcome newbies ,
        in LFY kenneth gonsalves has nice articles on welcoming newbies by
        teaching them what is freedom etc not sure if he has a blog too , it
        ultimately boils down to the below lines

        "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish;
        and you have fed him for a lifetime"—Author unknown



        Regards
        Sashank
      • Kartik Mistry
        ... +1. I am worried about those who wonders what is FOSS. -- Cheers, Kartik Mistry | GPG: 0xD1028C8D | IRC: kart_ Blogs: {ftbfs,kartikm}.wordpress.com Fortune
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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          On Monday 02 Jun 2008 11:09:37 pm Sashank Dara wrote:
          > > The philosophy and stories of geekdom still don't impress them much.
          > > What we want is a more practical reason, a more practical display
          > > of being a part of the FOSS community. These days students are
          > > mainly worried about employability and how everything they get
          > > involved can take them towards a high-paying dream job.
          >
          > What do you think FOSS is ? Students are worried about job and
          > employability , every body is worried about it no wonder but FOSS is
          > for those who are more worried about learning , contributing , sharing
          > , growing together , Please don't mix up both .

          +1.

          I am worried about those who wonders what is FOSS.

          --
          Cheers,
          Kartik Mistry | GPG: 0xD1028C8D | IRC: kart_
          Blogs: {ftbfs,kartikm}.wordpress.com

          Fortune finishes the great quotations, #3
          Birds of a feather flock to a newly washed car.
        • Laxminarayan Kamath
          From all this I feel foss.in, should (oh my good Lord!) change its name again. Why did Linux-Bangalore become foss.in ? Because the target audience changed.
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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            From all this I feel foss.in, should (oh my good Lord!) change its
            name again. Why did Linux-Bangalore become foss.in ? Because the
            target audience changed. Why should foss.in make itself something like
            fossdev.in ?
            3. reflects the trend of so many FOSS projects changing their names.
            2. Its better late than never to reflect the target audience in the name.
            1. Saves so(^42) much of time and bandwidth and should I even
            mention all the fuss and headache that would go into explaining every
            angry newbie or newbie supporter of why the target audience does not
            include newbies.

            Whats in a name you ask ? Go ahead and categorize the mails on the
            list and give me a count. I wouldn't wonder if Atul and party had
            headaches and even nightmares after answering those.

            On 6/2/08, Sashank Dara <sashankdvk@...> wrote:
            >> The philosophy and stories of geekdom still don't impress them much.
            >> What we want is a more practical reason, a more practical display
            >> of being a part of the FOSS community. These days students are
            >> mainly worried about employability and how everything they get
            >> involved can take them towards a high-paying dream job.
            >
            > What do you think FOSS is ? Students are worried about job and
            > employability , every body is worried about it no wonder but FOSS is
            > for those who are more worried about learning , contributing , sharing
            > , growing together , Please don't mix up both .
            >
            >
            >>
            >> I noticed that myself, and many of my friends who attended FOSS.IN
            >> couldn't make much sense of what was being presented, because we had
            >> no prior exposure to FOSS development, and I believe that the
            >> majority of students who attend FOSS.IN will fall into a similar
            >> category, so students who have never contributed to FOSS before
            >> would prefer to go to one of these sessions and pick up their SVN
            >> fundas first than learn more about the code base of Firefox or KDE.
            >
            > This was because last years FOSS was not targeted for newbies ,
            > sorry to say there was huge discussion on the focus of FOSS.in/2007 ,
            > i don't know and don't want to comment on how many actually FOSS
            > developers were born shutting doors to newbies.
            >
            >>
            >> One more thing I feel should be demonstrated is the use already
            >> existing APIs to simplify one's task. Students who come from the
            >>Turbo C++ world usually don't know what a library means and
            >>sometimes end up reinventing the wheel [This was the case with me too.]
            >
            > what do you expect from FOSS.in ? , spoon feeding on what libraries
            > are ? or a training institute to teach u PHP , Python ?
            >
            > Just to make it clear , am not actually shutting gates for NEWBIES ,
            > they should be welcome always , my strong vote for welcoming newbies
            > in taking ahead the FOSS movement and adopting it in big way ,
            > but definitely this is not the way to welcome newbies ,
            > in LFY kenneth gonsalves has nice articles on welcoming newbies by
            > teaching them what is freedom etc not sure if he has a blog too , it
            > ultimately boils down to the below lines
            >
            > "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish;
            > and you have fed him for a lifetime"—Author unknown
            >
            >
            >
            > Regards
            > Sashank
            >
            >


            --
            Laxminarayan Kamath Ammembal
            http://lankerisms.blogspot.com
            (+91) 9945036093
          • Atul Chitnis
            ... Actually, FOSS.IN/2007 produced more *new* contributors from India than all preceding Linux Bangalore and FOSS.IN events put together. :) FOSS.IN doesn t
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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              On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Sashank Dara wrote:

              > This was because last years FOSS was not targeted for newbies ,
              > sorry to say there was huge discussion on the focus of FOSS.in/2007 ,
              > i don't know and don't want to comment on how many actually FOSS
              > developers were born shutting doors to newbies.

              Actually, FOSS.IN/2007 produced more *new* contributors from India than
              all preceding Linux Bangalore and FOSS.IN events put together. :)

              FOSS.IN doesn't shut out newbies - it just doesn't duplicate the efforts
              of all the other events (that *do* cater to newbies), LUGs and people
              writing articles for newbies.

              BTW - we differentiate between "newbies" and "n00bs". Someone who has a
              background of programming, or technical writing, or creating artwork, but
              has never worked on a FOSS project, is technically a "newbie". FOSS.IN
              caters to such people, because it shows these people how to use their
              skills to contribute to FOSS.

              A "n00b" is someone who has no clue about FOSS, has no skills at all that
              could be used to contribute to FOSS, and needs to be spoonfed from
              scratch. FOSS.IN does not cater to such people.

              As we have said before, we have to pick our battles, or we lose the war.
              There is only so much time and so many resources that we have during the
              event. Should we spend them duplicating the efforts of other people?

              Or build on those efforts?

              Atul

              --
              Atul Chitnis
              Bangalore, India
              http://atulchitnis.net
            • Pradeepto Bhattacharya
              Hi, OK, please don t try to hijack this thread. This thread was *not* meant for discussing whether foss creates jobs or does it increase employability and any
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                Hi,

                OK, please don't try to hijack this thread. This thread was *not*
                meant for discussing whether foss creates jobs or does it increase
                employability and any such things. I have made it clear before - its
                not about "Programming in Python" talks or any spoonfeeding. Its much
                more than that. I have been to enough FOSS.INs to know what it is
                about. I proudly consider myself as a product of FOSS.in when it
                comes to contributions - I have said it before and I will say it again
                in future.

                And we don't live in a ideal world. There are newbies, who come to FOSS.in.

                Anyway, to clarify again for the umpteenth time - "Programming in
                Qt/GTK+/NextBestToolKit", "Programing in your favourite scripting
                tool", "How to use a latest Uber Cool Ajaxy CMS" and such are
                ***NOT*** acceptable topics. Again read what I said in my last mails,
                topics will have to be carefully screened and chosen.

                Please discuss like Arun did and actually put forth some wonderful
                points to which I agree but his interpretation of "Skill Days" not
                what I meant.

                Cheers!

                Pradeepto
                --
                The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org
                KDE India : http://in.kde.org
                Mailing List : http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india
              • Shreyas Srinivasan
                ... everyone would know contributing might involve bug triaging, reporting, art work, release management etc. -- Shreyas
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                  On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Laxminarayan Kamath <kamathln@...> wrote:
                  > From all this I feel foss.in, should (oh my good Lord!) change its
                  > name again. Why did Linux-Bangalore become foss.in ? Because the
                  > target audience changed. Why should foss.in make itself something like
                  > fossdev.in ?
                  > 3. reflects the trend of so many FOSS projects changing their names.
                  > 2. Its better late than never to reflect the target audience in the name.
                  > 1. Saves so(^42) much of time and bandwidth and should I even
                  > mention all the fuss and headache that would go into explaining every
                  > angry newbie or newbie supporter of why the target audience does not
                  > include newbies.
                  >
                  > Whats in a name you ask ? Go ahead and categorize the mails on the
                  > list and give me a count. I wouldn't wonder if Atul and party had
                  > headaches and even nightmares after answering those.

                  :-) Its not a developer conference, Its a contributers conference. As
                  everyone would know contributing might involve bug triaging, reporting,
                  art work, release management etc.

                  --
                  Shreyas
                • Shreyas Srinivasan
                  On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Pradeepto Bhattacharya ... Ok, Couple of things i would like to point out: 1) Main Conference are sessions aimed at
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                    On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Pradeepto Bhattacharya
                    <pradeeptob@...> wrote:
                    > Hi,
                    >
                    > OK, please don't try to hijack this thread. This thread was *not*
                    > meant for discussing whether foss creates jobs or does it increase
                    > employability and any such things. I have made it clear before - its
                    > not about "Programming in Python" talks or any spoonfeeding. Its much
                    > more than that. I have been to enough FOSS.INs to know what it is
                    > about. I proudly consider myself as a product of FOSS.in when it
                    > comes to contributions - I have said it before and I will say it again
                    > in future.
                    >
                    > And we don't live in a ideal world. There are newbies, who come to FOSS.in.
                    >
                    > Anyway, to clarify again for the umpteenth time - "Programming in
                    > Qt/GTK+/NextBestToolKit", "Programing in your favourite scripting
                    > tool", "How to use a latest Uber Cool Ajaxy CMS" and such are
                    > ***NOT*** acceptable topics. Again read what I said in my last mails,
                    > topics will have to be carefully screened and chosen.
                    >
                    > Please discuss like Arun did and actually put forth some wonderful
                    > points to which I agree but his interpretation of "Skill Days" not
                    > what I meant.

                    Ok, Couple of things i would like to point out:

                    1) Main Conference are sessions aimed
                    at contributers or atleast involved men/women.

                    2) The project days have slightly relaxed talk requirements,
                    they can have talks which can be general as long as they
                    build up to getting more people involved.

                    What is evident from the discussion is the need to do a
                    few sessions which all project days need to address
                    in unison. These sessions are typically tools and
                    developer environment centric.

                    Would that descriptions fit well with all of you?

                    --
                    Shreyas
                  • Pradeepto Bhattacharya
                    Heya, ... Makes sense to me. Yes. Cheers! Pradeepto -- The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org KDE India : http://in.kde.org Mailing List :
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                      Heya,

                      On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Shreyas Srinivasan <sshreyas@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ok, Couple of things i would like to point out:
                      >
                      > 1) Main Conference are sessions aimed
                      > at contributers or atleast involved men/women.
                      >
                      > 2) The project days have slightly relaxed talk requirements,
                      > they can have talks which can be general as long as they
                      > build up to getting more people involved.
                      >
                      > What is evident from the discussion is the need to do a
                      > few sessions which all project days need to address
                      > in unison. These sessions are typically tools and
                      > developer environment centric.
                      >
                      > Would that descriptions fit well with all of you?

                      Makes sense to me. Yes.

                      Cheers!

                      Pradeepto
                      --
                      The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org
                      KDE India : http://in.kde.org
                      Mailing List : http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india
                    • Philip Tellis
                      ... I d say that spoonfeeding is the only difference. FOSS.IN caters to people who are self-motivated even if they have no skills, because they ll drive
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                        2008/6/2 Atul Chitnis <listadmin@...>:

                        > BTW - we differentiate between "newbies" and "n00bs". Someone who has a
                        > background of programming, or technical writing, or creating artwork, but
                        > has never worked on a FOSS project, is technically a "newbie". FOSS.IN
                        > caters to such people, because it shows these people how to use their
                        > skills to contribute to FOSS.
                        >
                        > A "n00b" is someone who has no clue about FOSS, has no skills at all that
                        > could be used to contribute to FOSS, and needs to be spoonfed from
                        > scratch. FOSS.IN does not cater to such people.

                        I'd say that spoonfeeding is the only difference. FOSS.IN caters to
                        people who are self-motivated even if they have no skills, because
                        they'll drive themselves to develop the skills necessary. Many a time
                        it's not that someone cannot pick up skills, it's just that he doesn't
                        know which skills to pick up first. Should he do C, C++, Perl, PHP,
                        Gtk, Qt, Wx, CVS, Subversion, bazaar? It's only after you see what's
                        used in a project that you're interested in that you have a push to
                        decide.

                        n00bs don't get that far, and it's highly likely that spoonfeeding
                        them isn't going to produce a contributor.

                        Perhaps Pradeepto's suggestion was more about developing the skills
                        needed for generic FOSS development, but IMO, without a concrete goal,
                        that kind of training doesn't stick around too long. What you
                        probably want is something along the lines of:
                        - KDE development using C++, Qt and svn.
                        - Using bzr and deb to develop Ubuntu packages



                        --
                        hello world
                      • Sashank Dara
                        ... than all preceding Linux Bangalore and FOSS.IN events put together. :) thats really good news! ... considering the fan following of FOSS.IN and number of
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                          >
                          > Actually, FOSS.IN/2007 produced more *new* contributors from India
                          than all preceding Linux Bangalore and FOSS.IN events put together. :)

                          thats really good news!

                          >FOSS.IN doesn't shut out newbies - it just doesn't duplicate the
                          >efforts of all the other events (that *do* cater to newbies), LUGs
                          >and people writing articles for newbies.

                          considering the fan following of FOSS.IN and number of students
                          attending each year and their expectations ,
                          either decent share of the available pie can be given to newbies.
                          or if *possible* BOOT CAMP For FOSS.IN also can be done this year
                          much before the event ( taking the help of LUGs etc ) for basic
                          introduction of FOSS to the beginners,starters ( but not for n00bes).

                          because we could see tons of clueless students ,hanging around
                          distributing their cvs as if its some Job fair , one bad experience
                          for them on FOSS and there is fair chance of not coming back

                          > Should we spend them duplicating the efforts of other people?
                          >
                          definitely not !
                        • samarjit adhikari
                          Hi Pradeepto/All, I should first thanx to Pradeepto for doing such an initiative in mail. During last few days i was just following up this mail chain (Skill
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                            Hi Pradeepto/All,

                            I should first thanx to Pradeepto for doing such an initiative in mail. During last few days i was just following up this mail chain (Skill Set session.) and found interested to contribute in KDE/Qt programming.I have always found difficulties to enlist myself as KDE/Qt
                            programmer as i didn't know how to approach to others regarding this.Though i have registered an open source project in sf.net based on
                            Qt/C/Networking domain.

                            Project URL: http://sf.net/projects/raptt

                            I also attend last FOSS.IN (Dec 2007) without grabbing a good context., though i liked the charming environment.
                            Do let me know how i can actively participate in OSS development.

                            Thanx and regards,
                            Samar
                            (Samarjit Adhikari
                            Bangalore , India)



                            Meet people who discuss and share your passions. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/bestofyahoo/
                          • Arun Raghavan
                            On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Sashank Dara wrote: [...] ... I say again that this would be a regressive move. We ve gotten to this
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 2, 2008
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                              On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:25 AM, Sashank Dara <sashankdvk@...> wrote:
                              [...]
                              >>FOSS.IN doesn't shut out newbies - it just doesn't duplicate the
                              >>efforts of all the other events (that *do* cater to newbies), LUGs
                              >>and people writing articles for newbies.
                              >
                              > considering the fan following of FOSS.IN and number of students
                              > attending each year and their expectations ,
                              > either decent share of the available pie can be given to newbies.

                              I say again that this would be a regressive move. We've gotten to this
                              point by saying enough is enough, no more spoon-feeding.

                              > or if *possible* BOOT CAMP For FOSS.IN also can be done this year
                              > much before the event ( taking the help of LUGs etc ) for basic
                              > introduction of FOSS to the beginners,starters ( but not for n00bes).

                              This is an excellent idea if executed at any time of the year. Why
                              aren't you doing this, again? :)

                              > because we could see tons of clueless students ,hanging around
                              > distributing their cvs as if its some Job fair , one bad experience
                              > for them on FOSS and there is fair chance of not coming back

                              Again, not our target demographic.

                              I don't know why anyone here might think Foss.in is not
                              newbie-friendly. It is. Newbies are welcomed and even encouraged to
                              come and participate. In talks, I've seen people ask really basic
                              questions and nobody thinks less of the person for asking. And the
                              question is always answered. The _only_ prerequisite is
                              self-motivation (which is also true of any enthusiast conference).

                              I think a good analogy to draw is with RTFM/STFW. What you have to
                              understand is that these are _not_ pejorative nor a means to
                              discourage people. They are enablers -- they enable the asker to
                              support {him,her}self. Our purpose is similar. We're a conference to
                              encourage and help people contribute, as well as a platform for
                              existing contributors.

                              Now, what Pradeepto raises is a valid point. Perhaps we need to think
                              of ways to point people in the right direction to pick up the common
                              skills required to contribute to open source projects. Why not try to
                              come up with more ideas to tackle this?

                              Cheers,
                              --
                              Arun Raghavan
                              (http://nemesis.accosted.net)
                              v2sw5Chw4+5ln4pr6$OFck2ma4+9u8w3+1!m?l7+9GSCKi056
                              e6+9i4b8/9HTAen4+5g4/8APa2Xs8r1/2p5-8 hackerkey.com
                            • "Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ)"
                              ... Pradeepto s initial mail does raise an interesting and very relevant point. And it is somewhat implicitly accepted by everybody that it is time something
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                Arun Raghavan wrote:

                                > Now, what Pradeepto raises is a valid point. Perhaps we need to think
                                > of ways to point people in the right direction to pick up the common
                                > skills required to contribute to open source projects. Why not try to
                                > come up with more ideas to tackle this?

                                Pradeepto's initial mail does raise an interesting and very relevant
                                point. And it is somewhat implicitly accepted by everybody that it is
                                time something was done to address the lack of knowledge / awareness
                                about basic tools, processes and the all too glaring requirement to talk
                                / demonstrate about the how(s) of producing open source software.

                                Perhaps the point was not about whether this fits into the Main
                                Conference bits of foss.in - but more about "this issue needs to be
                                addressed".

                                Whether it gets addressed as an add-on track at foss.in or, it takes the
                                shape of being addressed by LUGs, other like events is a separate
                                discussion.

                                I still hold the notion that Pradeepto should blog about this. The
                                initial mail was only an idea put into mail form. This needs some bit of
                                work to take the form of a "Day".

                                ~sankarshan
                              • Pradeepto Bhattacharya
                                Heya, ... a friendly ping_poke :). Any further discussions / decisions on this issue. Cheers! Pradeepto -- The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org KDE India :
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jul 5 11:16 PM
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                                  Heya,

                                  On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Shreyas Srinivasan <sshreyas@...> wrote:
                                  >> Please discuss like Arun did and actually put forth some wonderful
                                  >> points to which I agree but his interpretation of "Skill Days" not
                                  >> what I meant.
                                  >
                                  > Ok, Couple of things i would like to point out:
                                  >
                                  > 1) Main Conference are sessions aimed
                                  > at contributers or atleast involved men/women.
                                  >
                                  > 2) The project days have slightly relaxed talk requirements,
                                  > they can have talks which can be general as long as they
                                  > build up to getting more people involved.
                                  >
                                  > What is evident from the discussion is the need to do a
                                  > few sessions which all project days need to address
                                  > in unison. These sessions are typically tools and
                                  > developer environment centric.
                                  >
                                  > Would that descriptions fit well with all of you?

                                  a friendly ping_poke :). Any further discussions / decisions
                                  on this issue.

                                  Cheers!

                                  Pradeepto
                                  --
                                  The KDE Project : http://www.kde.org
                                  KDE India : http://in.kde.org
                                  Mailing List : http://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-india
                                • Amol Hatwar
                                  Dear all, Sorry to kick in so late... but I just noticed this rather long convo. Firstly, Pradeepto s idea is good. But I don t think it is right for the
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jul 5 11:58 PM
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                                    Dear all,

                                    Sorry to kick in so late... but I just noticed this rather long convo.
                                    Firstly, Pradeepto's idea is good. But I don't think it is right for
                                    the FOSS.IN format.

                                    I am in total agreement with Atul here - we have to pick our wars.
                                    Championing/marketing something and Furthering something are two
                                    different games.

                                    Pradeepto, your argument is subtle. But, IMHO FOSS.IN should not try
                                    to do the Educational Institute's job of teaching Version Control
                                    rather than teaching how to press buttons on VSS. Teaching concepts:
                                    It's their job... Getting a good grip on concepts require more than
                                    two days anyway.

                                    Think of it this way, if we scale the argument; it comes quite close
                                    to getting (tribals with bows and arrows) into a gun-fight. They'll
                                    die left right and centre if the sounds don't scare them off.

                                    Amol Hatwar
                                  • Akarsh Simha
                                    Hi ... But not everybody who wants to become a FOSS developer is necessarily a CS student. Would it not help attract developers from other fields as well, if
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jul 6 5:18 AM
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                                      Hi

                                      > Pradeepto, your argument is subtle. But, IMHO FOSS.IN should not try
                                      > to do the Educational Institute's job of teaching Version Control
                                      > rather than teaching how to press buttons on VSS. Teaching concepts:
                                      > It's their job... Getting a good grip on concepts require more than
                                      > two days anyway.

                                      But not everybody who wants to become a FOSS developer is necessarily
                                      a CS student. Would it not help attract developers from other fields
                                      as well, if we could teach these things?

                                      Regards
                                      Akarsh
                                    • Philip Tellis
                                      ... Most of us learnt version control and other infrastructure topics related to FOSS development on our own, so I do not believe that not teaching it creates
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jul 6 11:02 AM
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                                        > But not everybody who wants to become a FOSS developer is necessarily
                                        > a CS student. Would it not help attract developers from other fields
                                        > as well, if we could teach these things?

                                        Most of us learnt version control and other infrastructure topics
                                        related to FOSS development on our own, so I do not believe that not
                                        teaching it creates a barrier to entry. People learn these things
                                        only when they actually have to use them actively. Not so much when
                                        they sit in a classroom and listen/try it out. In my experience, the
                                        biggest barriers to entry has always been, "what should I work on?"
                                        and "how should I start?". The project days aim to answer those
                                        questions.
                                      • Sashank Dara
                                        ... ++ You stole my words :) ... if we start teaching them these topics, for any reason , it may not fuel the spirit of FOSS. ... Yes , also we need to inspire
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jul 9 9:47 AM
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                                          >
                                          > Most of us learn't version control and other infrastructure topics
                                          > related to FOSS development on our own, so I do not believe that not
                                          > teaching it creates a barrier to entry. People learn these things
                                          > only when they actually have to use them actively. Not so much when
                                          > they sit in a classroom and listen/try it out.
                                          ++
                                          You stole my words :) ...
                                          if we start teaching them these topics, for any reason , it may not
                                          fuel the spirit of FOSS.

                                          > In my experience, the biggest barriers to entry has always been,
                                          >"what should I work on?" and "how should I start?". The project
                                          >days aim to answer those questions.

                                          Yes , also we need to inspire them to dream ,to innovate, to share ,
                                          to learn , to contribute , this may fuel the true spirit and brings in
                                          more contributors
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