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Re: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet

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  • Kerri Lane
    Thanks Wally - much appreciated. I ll do that. Kerri ... From: wallylind To: Sent: Wednesday, October
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 30, 2003
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      Thanks Wally - much appreciated. I'll do that.

      Kerri

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: wallylind <peowally@...>
      To: <forensic-science@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:45 PM
      Subject: Re: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet


      > I can't answer your question. I haven't tried to access the list from
      outside. On some Yahoo lists you can read the recent posts without joining,
      so that you can judge wether or not you wish to join. There are 2000+
      members of the group and I've been on it long enough that I don't remember
      if applications are screened. I don't think they are. The group is
      moderated, but that only involves screening incoming messeges for relavence
      and decency (we keep the posts from "oh, baby.com" away). If your worried
      about it have a non-member friend, with a computer that yahoo won't
      recognize, find the list and see if the posts can be read without joining
      the group. If they can, its public. As I said many Yahoo groups are. Yahoo
      is a web based company, with wide public appeal.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      >
    • Janet Lee
      Admission to this forum is not screened. It s suppose to be for professionals only, but from the large number of student inquiries (myself included), you can
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 30, 2003
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        Admission to this forum is not screened. It's suppose to be for
        professionals only, but from the large number of student inquiries (myself
        included), you can see that it's not enforced. It's not hard at all to just
        fill out a form to join. Message posting is *suppose* to be regulated, but
        I gather that it isn't highly policed either. So there's no application
        process, anyone can join.

        As to whether the public, without joining, can view messages...I'm not sure,
        but if they come up on google searches, wouldn't that mean that even if they
        couldn't read them, they can at least search, join, and then read them? Not
        private at all. Sorry you had to go through that!

        Maybe we should start adding disclaimers at the bottom of messages...

        Janet
      • Daryl W. Clemens
        As list owner, I can answer the question. Yes this is a public list. We don t restrict membership to the list. Since we don t restrict membership, it seems
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 1, 2003
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          As list owner, I can answer the question. Yes this is a public list. We
          don't restrict membership to the list. Since we don't restrict membership,
          it seems a bit silly to restrict access to the message archives, since
          anyone wishing to read them could simply join the group and then leave.

          I think the fact that there is an archive of past messages is one of the
          great things about this group, as there is a lot of great information there.

          If the professional members of the list would like I can switch the archives
          to be read by members only.

          In a broader view, remember that anything you have ever sent via e-mail, to
          anyone or any list, that was not encrypted, could potentially come back to
          you.

          Regards,

          Daryl

          -------------------------------------------------------------
          Daryl W. Clemens

          Editor, Crime and Clues
          http://www.crimeandclues.com

          Moderator, forensic-science mail list
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science/
          -------------------------------------------------------------
        • May K. Shue
          ... And that made me remember that this is a list for and subscribed to by people with an interest in the science of tracing things back to their origins.. :)
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 1, 2003
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            Daryl wrote:
            > In a broader view, remember that anything you have ever sent via e-mail,
            > to anyone or any list, that was not encrypted, could potentially come
            > back to you.

            And that made me remember that this is a list for and subscribed to by people with an interest in the science of tracing things back to their origins.. :)

            - May
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          • Terry Tegnazian
            I believe that it s because forensic-science is an open group, and is listed in the yahoo directory. I am in a number of yahoogroups, and when I just did a
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 1, 2003
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              I believe that it's because forensic-science is an open group, and is
              listed in the yahoo directory. I am in a number of yahoogroups, and
              when I just did a Google search on myself, no messages appeared from the
              groups whose membership is controlled, and none from the unlisted groups.
              Terry




              suesarkis@... wrote:

              >Dear Colleagues -
              >
              >Can someone please explain to me how one of my messages to this list has
              >wound up as a public record on the Internet?
              >
              ><A HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science/message/4515">Yahoo! Groups : forensic-science Messages : Message 4515 of 5100</A>
              >
              >
              >Is this list not protected? Are all of the messages sent readily reviewable
              >on the Internet by the entire world? This is one shocking slap in the face
              >having learned about it on the WITNESS stand.
              >
              >Sincerely,
              >Sue S
              >
              >(Not wanting to enter any other discoverable I.D.)
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >To subscribe send a blank e-mail to: forensic-science-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >To unsubscribe send a blank e-mail to: forensic-science-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science
              >>From the home page you can search the list archives. It also includes links to forensic science sites and allows you to modify your account settings.
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Steven Staggs
              For anyone interested in a CSI Certificate program in southern California: Crime Scene Investigation-Certificate and Courses October 2003 Program Update NEW
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 1, 2003
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                For anyone interested in a CSI Certificate program in southern California:

                Crime Scene Investigation-Certificate and Courses
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                Applications for limited positions are now being accepted for 2003-2004
                academic year. Selected students will begin working at different times
                throughout the year as scheduled by the sponsoring agency.

                Click www.ucrextension.net/csi and the New CSI Practicum link. The
                application is located at this site. If you are able to secure a
                practicum/internship with an agency on your own and would like to earn
                elective units for the experience (minimum 80 hours), please call Extension
                at 909-787-5804.

                *Minimum Prerequisites: Satisfactory completion of the following
                courses-Crime Scene Management; Crime Scene Photography; and Fingerprint
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                application submitted to UC Riverside Extension (click
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • trewCO@compuserve.com
                Hope you don t change access Daryl - its was because of open access that I and others found this newsgroup. I think the real question needs to be asked why
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 2, 2003
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                  Hope you don't change access Daryl - its was because of open access that I
                  and
                  others found this newsgroup.

                  I think the real question needs to be asked "why was Sue S so concerned
                  about
                  information in this newsgroup appearing in court with respect to her
                  evidence?"

                  Could be that at court they found quality opinions can be found in this
                  group.
                  Daryl, surely that is a compliment.

                  Greg UK



                  -------------Forwarded Message-----------------

                  From: INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com,
                  INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
                  To: [unknown], INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com

                  Date: 01/10/103 17:04 PM

                  RE: Re: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet


                  As list owner, I can answer the question. Yes this is a public list. We
                  don't restrict membership to the list. Since we don't restrict membership,
                  it seems a bit silly to restrict access to the message archives, since
                  anyone wishing to read them could simply join the group and then leave.

                  I think the fact that there is an archive of past messages is one of the
                  great things about this group, as there is a lot of great information
                  there.

                  If the professional members of the list would like I can switch the
                  archives
                  to be read by members only.

                  In a broader view, remember that anything you have ever sent via e-mail, to
                  anyone or any list, that was not encrypted, could potentially come back to
                  you.

                  Regards,

                  Daryl

                  -------------------------------------------------------------
                  Daryl W. Clemens

                  Editor, Crime and Clues
                  http://www.crimeandclues.com

                  Moderator, forensic-science mail list
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science/
                  -------------------------------------------------------------
                • wallylind
                  Daryl, I agree, I like the list as it is. I like the questions from non-professionals, I don t even mind the forensics related ads that appear now and then.
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 2, 2003
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                    Daryl,
                    I agree, I like the list as it is. I like the questions from non-professionals, I don't even mind the forensics related ads that appear now and then.
                    Wally Lind
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: trewCO@...
                    To: INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:42 AM
                    Subject: Re: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet



                    Hope you don't change access Daryl - its was because of open access that I
                    and
                    others found this newsgroup.

                    I think the real question needs to be asked "why was Sue S so concerned
                    about
                    information in this newsgroup appearing in court with respect to her
                    evidence?"

                    Could be that at court they found quality opinions can be found in this
                    group.
                    Daryl, surely that is a compliment.

                    Greg UK



                    -------------Forwarded Message-----------------

                    From: INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com,
                    INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
                    To: [unknown], INTERNET:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com

                    Date: 01/10/103 17:04 PM

                    RE: Re: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet


                    As list owner, I can answer the question. Yes this is a public list. We
                    don't restrict membership to the list. Since we don't restrict membership,
                    it seems a bit silly to restrict access to the message archives, since
                    anyone wishing to read them could simply join the group and then leave.

                    I think the fact that there is an archive of past messages is one of the
                    great things about this group, as there is a lot of great information
                    there.

                    If the professional members of the list would like I can switch the
                    archives
                    to be read by members only.

                    In a broader view, remember that anything you have ever sent via e-mail, to
                    anyone or any list, that was not encrypted, could potentially come back to
                    you.

                    Regards,

                    Daryl

                    -------------------------------------------------------------
                    Daryl W. Clemens

                    Editor, Crime and Clues
                    http://www.crimeandclues.com

                    Moderator, forensic-science mail list
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science/
                    -------------------------------------------------------------


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                    To subscribe send a blank e-mail to: forensic-science-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    To unsubscribe send a blank e-mail to: forensic-science-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science
                    From the home page you can search the list archives. It also includes links to forensic science sites and allows you to modify your account settings.

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Robert Parsons
                    I can tell you very easily. This particular Yahoo group ( forensic-science ) is a public group. Its messages can be viewed by anyone who goes to the Yahoo
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 21, 2003
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                      I can tell you very easily. This particular Yahoo group
                      ("forensic-science") is a public group. Its messages can be viewed by
                      anyone who goes to the Yahoo Groups site. Since this is a public
                      discussion list, no, it is not protected. Didn't you read the rules of
                      the group when you joined? It is clearly marked as having public
                      archives of all messages. In fact, all Yahoo discussion groups are
                      public unless designated private by the group owner. Messages in
                      private groups can be posted and read only by group members, but
                      messages in public groups can be read by anyone.

                      Words to the wise - never assume ANYTHING you post on the internet or
                      send through the internet (including your personal e-mail) is private,
                      assume it is ALL public -- because it probably is, or at least
                      potentially is. The only exceptions are encrypted retail ordering pages
                      (marked by a lock or key icon at the bottom of the screen), and messages
                      sent using an encryption utility like Pretty Good Privacy. Standard web
                      pages and ordinary e-mail are NOT secure.

                      BTW, if you don't want to identify yourself, then you shouldn't
                      participate in a professional discussion list. Anything you are afraid
                      to say publicly, you probably shouldn't say privately either, and
                      certainly not in writing (hard copy or virtual, as in on-line). If what
                      you have to say is worth saying, and is justified in your own mind, you
                      should be willing to stand behind it publicly by identifying yourself.
                      No offense intended, but anonymity is not for professionals engaged in
                      professional discussions. On the other hand, if you really do want to
                      remain anonymous, then you should change your e-mail address as it
                      clearly reveals both your first and last names (see below).

                      Bob Parsons, F-ABC
                      Forensic Chemist
                      Indian River Crime Laboratory
                      Ft. Pierce, FL

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: suesarkis@... [mailto:suesarkis@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 1:34 PM
                      To: forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet


                      Dear Colleagues -

                      Can someone please explain to me how one of my messages to this list has

                      wound up as a public record on the Internet?

                      <A
                      HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science/message/4515">Yahoo
                      ! Groups : forensic-science Messages : Message 4515 of 5100</A>


                      Is this list not protected? Are all of the messages sent readily
                      reviewable
                      on the Internet by the entire world? This is one shocking slap in the
                      face
                      having learned about it on the WITNESS stand.

                      Sincerely,
                      Sue S

                      (Not wanting to enter any other discoverable I.D.)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      To subscribe send a blank e-mail to:
                      forensic-science-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      To unsubscribe send a blank e-mail to:
                      forensic-science-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/forensic-science
                      From the home page you can search the list archives. It also includes
                      links to forensic science sites and allows you to modify your account
                      settings.

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Robert Parsons
                      Yes, it is public domain and no, there is no degree of privacy. This is clearly marked as a PUBLIC discussion list, which means that anyone can join (no
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 21, 2003
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                        Yes, it is public domain and no, there is no degree of privacy. This is
                        clearly marked as a PUBLIC discussion list, which means that anyone can
                        join (no approval from the moderator is required) and anyone can read
                        the archives even without formally joining the group. The pages showing
                        the group's membership list, members' e-mail addresses, files, photos,
                        etc., are viewable only by members, but again, anyone can become a
                        member simply by establishing a Yahoo ID, logging in, and clicking on
                        "join this group." The messages themselves, however, can be read by
                        anyone without any need to join the group, because they are PUBLIC
                        archives.

                        PRIVATE Yahoo discussion groups have message archives that can only be
                        accessed by members, but this particular group is not a private group.

                        The lesson here is to be careful what lists you join and be sure to read
                        all the particulars about how the group works before joining.

                        Bob Parsons, F-ABC
                        Forensic Chemist
                        Indian River Crime Laboratory
                        Ft. Pierce, FL

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Kerri Lane [mailto:kerrilane@...]
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:25 PM
                        To: forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [forensic-science] Publications on the Internet

                        But it's not direct public domain stuff Wally, is it? Sure anyone can
                        join -
                        but they still have to *apply*. There is a degree of privacy here. I
                        have a
                        response to this email below that you may not have received yet - and in
                        that I was talking about information appearing on a public forum -
                        information from this list that people don't have to apply for
                        permission to
                        read or participate in.

                        Any discussions here are still restrictedly received by members of this
                        group - they don't just appear on the Net at large.
                        And if they do - heaven forbid - then why is this group different to the
                        other groups I am on?

                        I'm not naive - anyone can take this infornation and pass it on and
                        while it
                        is forbiden in most groups, I accept it is almost impossible to police.
                        But
                        the message under my name was totally innocuous. There was no reason for
                        it
                        to be posted publicly - it aided no one. It was a query.

                        So, I guess my question is - is everyone's mail from this list going to
                        a
                        public noticeboard?

                        I promise there is no malice nor anger in my query. Trepidation perhaps.

                        Kerri - very curious.



                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Wally said...


                        > This list is the Internet!
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.