Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [forensic-science] The Commision on Forensic Education

Expand Messages
  • Robert W Parsons
    That s the first time I have ever heard the term respected associated with the ACFE/ABFE (or any of its many offspring), whose past reputation is one of
    Message 1 of 33 , Dec 24, 2008
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      That's the first time I have ever heard the term "respected" associated with
      the ACFE/ABFE (or any of its many offspring), whose past reputation is one
      of illegitimacy, that of a notorious diploma mill. Has it changed for the
      better? I'd like to hope so, but I'm still rather dubious about it. The
      fact that they keep changing their name (now "ACFEI") doesn't engender
      optimism.



      See:

      MacDonald, Elizabeth, "The Making of an Expert Witness: It's in the
      Credentials," Wall Street Journal - Eastern Edition, 02/08/99, v. 233, no.
      26, p. B1



      Hansen, Mark, "See the Cat? See the Credentials? Psychologist's Scam Gets
      His Pet 'Board-Certified'," in American Bar Association Journal E-Report,
      October 25, 2002. (Re: American Psychotherapy Association, an affiliate of
      the ACFE)



      Golding, Stephen L., "The Voir Dire of Forensic Experts: Issues of
      Qualification and Training - Sheepskins for Sale: Shortcut to Slaughter?",
      presented at the meeting of the American Psychological Association, Boston,
      8/22/99. (Re: American Psychological Specialties Association, another
      subsidiary of the ACFE).



      Hansen, Mark, "Expertise to Go," American Bar Association Journal, No. 86,
      pp. 44-52, February 2000. Abstract: "In a hurry? Then order your forensic
      expert witness credentials--if you have the bucks--from entrepreneur Robert
      O'Block. But are they legitimate? Earning credentials as a forensic expert
      witness can be relatively easy, if you apply to the American College of
      Forensic Examiners. Critics charge the group is basically a certification
      mill offering "checkbook" credentials. The organization is the brainchild
      of entrepreneur Robert O'Block, who makes a six-figure income as its head."



      Henderson, Carol, "Admissibility and Use of Expert Evidence in the
      Courtroom," American Bar Association Scientific Evidence Review Monograph
      No. 6, 2003, pp. 7-8



      Bob Parsons, F-ABC
      Forensic Chemist
      Indian River Crime Laboratory
      Ft. Pierce, FL


      "The forensic scientist's goal is the evenhanded use of all available
      information to determine the facts and, subsequently, the truth."

      American Academy of Forensic Sciences web site, Choosing a Career page

      "If the law has made you a witness, remain a man of science. You have no
      victim to avenge, no guilty or innocent person to convict or to save - you
      must bear testimony within the limits of science."

      Dr. P.C.H. Brouardel, 19th Century French Medico-legalist

      _____

      From: forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:forensic-science@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Char Wojcik
      Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:26 PM
      To: forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [forensic-science] The Commision on Forensic Education



      It is relatively new, but is associated with the respected ACFEI.

      On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:45 AM, yoey6 <yoey6@yahoo.
      <mailto:yoey6%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

      > http://www.forensic <http://www.forensiccommission.com/> commission.com/
      >
      > Is any one familiar with this group?
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Lloyd Scharf
      I am believe the Michael Coble you refer to would have to agree MtDNA population genetics and evolutionary biology has MtDNA population genetics and
      Message 33 of 33 , Dec 31, 2008
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        I am believe the Michael Coble you refer to would have to agree MtDNA
        population genetics and evolutionary biology has MtDNA population
        genetics and evolutionary biology has solidly entered the genomics era
        with recent publications of many whole mtGenome sequences.It is
        inevitable and desirable that forensic applications will follow.

        He would have to even agree that single nucleotide polymorphisms over
        the entire mtDNA genome increase the power of forensic testing in
        Caucasians.

        The Michael Coble you refer to would not deny it is unusual for
        individuals to match over the entire mtGenome, even when they are
        identical in HV1/HV2.

        After all, within the 241 individuals in a study he did, representing
        18common HV1/HV2 types, a total of 209 haplotypes were observed when the
        entire mtGenomes were sequenced. while only 32 of the 241 (13%)
        individuals matched one or more other individuals for the entire
        mtGenome.

        While I am no Dr. Michael Coble, I am also not one to hide behind a
        nick. This is, for better or worse, the name on my birth certificate.

        Now, just as a heads up, I keep papers done by many in the field and
        refer to them, even though I am just a Yahoo from cyberspace. I believe
        I have been VERY restrained with this Michael Coble <coblem@yahoo. com
        <mailto:coblem%40yahoo.com> >.

        Are you getting the drift of this now, Charles Brenner?




        --- In forensic-science@yahoogroups.com, Charles Brenner <cbrenner@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > At 05:34 PM 12/27/2008, John Scharf responded to Mike Coble's
        restrained
        > and authoritative comments
        > >I am not certain what your experience is,
        >
        > It's not hard to look him up. Dr. Coble is the director of research of
        the
        > Armed Forces DNA Identification Lab -- one of the leading forensic and
        > research mtDNA labs in the world. He has many mtDNA publications. He
        knows
        > whereof he speaks. Incidentally one of his publications evaluates the
        > benefit of sequencing the entire mitochondrion rather that only the
        control
        > regions.
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > >If you think I am incorrect in this, feel free to contact someone
        with
        > >more experience, like:
        > >
        > >Doron Behar MD, PhD Population Geneticist
        >
        > Dr. Behar is with Family Tree DNA, which I respect based on the slight
        > information of my passing familiarity and their association with the
        > well-known researcher Dr. Mike Hammer. Therefore I would give Dr.
        Behar
        > enough credence to assume that knows quite well who Dr. Coble is and
        that
        > he would agree with or accept Coble's statements.
        >
        > Charles Brenner
        >
        >
        > >________________________________
        > >From: Michael Coble coblem@...
        > >To: forensic-science@yahoogroups.com
        > >Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 10:54:07 PM
        > >Subject: Re: [forensic-science] Re: Professional Sanction
        Organization
        > >with Code of Ethics Needed
        > >
        > >
        > >--- On Fri, 12/26/08, John Lloyd Scharf <johnlloydscharf@ yahoo.com>
        wrote:
        > >
        > >"MtDNA has a full genome. It can be sequenced for less than $500."
        > >
        > >I don't doubt it. However my argument to you is that in the "REAL
        WORLD"
        > >of forensic mtDNA testing ­ the blood stain or buccal swab that a
        genetic
        > >genealogy company receives for testing gives them the luxury to
        sequence
        > >the mtDNA genome so cheaply. With that quantity/quality of DNA, one
        would
        > >have no need for mtDNA testing.
        > >
        > >So, why don't you contradict me and call several genetic
        genealogy
        > >companies and ask them if they will extract DNA from a 5 cm shed hair
        > >shaft and produce an entire mtDNA genome sequence USING the same
        standards
        > >for forensic mtDNA testing (e.g. sequencing both heavy and light
        strands
        > >of the molecule) for only $500. I'll be waiting, and I look
        forward to
        > >your answer.
        > >
        > >"The 16,519 polymorphism is in the HVR1"
        > >
        > >Although the exact base numbering may vary slightly, most scientists
        > >consider HV1 to cover 16024-16365. (see the bottom of the page -
        > >http://www.mitomap org/cgi-bin/ tbl1gen.pl). Also, examine the mtDB
        > >website for variants in this region: 184 variants among 342 bases
        from
        > >16024-16365 (53.8%) while only 41 variants among 204 bases from
        > >16366-16569 (20.1%) ­ not so hyper.
        > >
        > >"[16519] is an identifier even though it is not a qualifier for a
        subclade."
        > >
        > >On the contrary. Depending on the haplogroup background 16519 can be
        quite
        > >stable ­ go to Ian Logan's mtDNA website (http://www.ianlogan
        > >.co.uk/mtDNA. htm) and examine the haplogroup T subclades. All of
        these
        > >individuals have 16519T-C. Of course, it's always possible to
        have a
        > >reversion to the rCRS variant. However, among some haplogroups (see B
        or
        > >H), 16519 can be very unstable.
        > >
        > >"A test that claims matches with 25 in a database of only 3,759
        > >individuals show it is worthless for identification. A test that
        covers
        > >752 base pairs out of 16,569 is 95.4614% is worthless for
        identification.
        > >Etc..."
        > >
        > >Actually, the SWGDAM mtDNA database has 4,839 sequences ­ but we
        don't
        > >have to count that as a contradiction if you don't wish.
        > >
        > >As someone who spent a good portion of my life sequencing the entire
        mtDNA
        > >genomes of common HV1/HV2 haplotypes ­ I found that about 12% of
        the 18
        > >common types among Western Europeans were unresolved after full
        genome
        > >sequencing (n = 241). To claim that without whole genome sequencing,
        mtDNA
        > >testing is worthless and a waste of time (well, except for exclusions
        ­
        > >but I suppose you have this information a priori) is well,
        ill-informed.
        > >Having a genetic system shared among all of your maternal relatives,
        and
        > >the presence of common types among the population is a limitation of
        mtDNA
        > >testing that lawyers can argue over and juries can weigh in their
        decision.
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.