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Re: Important New Website - Crime Lab Report

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  • John M. Collins
    Dear Brent, Thanks for your reply. I think if you review our writings, you will find both positive and critical analysis of forensic science. Our editorial
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 24, 2007
      Dear Brent,

      Thanks for your reply.

      I think if you review our writings, you will find both positive and
      critical analysis of forensic science. Our editorial board is not
      interested in advocacy. It is interested in accuracy. Over time,
      this will become very evident. I would encourage you to visit our
      site and see for yourself.

      With respect, the second part of your reply indicates the very kind
      of misconception that our project is attempting to correct. ASCLD
      does not accredit crime laboratories. ASCLD/LAB accredits crime
      laboratories. ASCLD/LAB broke free of ASCLD in 1988 when it
      formally incorporated itself as a not-for-profit entity. The
      decision to retain the orginal "ASCLD" part of its name has been the
      source of understandable disagreement. ASCLD is simply a
      professional society of crime laboratory directors who gather once a
      year for training and professional discourse.

      Furthermore, CRIME LAB REPORT is not affiliated with ASCLD or any
      other organization. It is independent.

      Best wishes.

      --- In forensic-science@yahoogroups.com, Brent Turvey <bturvey@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > John;
      >
      > This looks and reads a lot like spin and positive PR; like a
      > political effort as opposed to a substantive one.
      >
      > Please help me understand how your initiative holds the forensic
      > science community more responsible as opposed to trying to damage
      > control the swollen tide of bad administration, bad science, and
      > unprofessional examiners in our midst?
      >
      > And please tell me how ASCLD (with which you and your effort are
      > affiliated) is worth anything after failing to pull the
      accreditation
      > of DNA Security, Inc. after it's director conspired with
      prosecutor's
      > to withhold exculpatory evidence in the Duke LaCrosse case last
      year.
      >
      > Crime labs don't need better PR. They need better people and more
      > accountability.
      >
      > I'll leave it at that.
      >
      > Brent
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Aug 20, 2007, at 2:12 PM, John M. Collins wrote:
      >
      > http://www.crimelabreport.com
      >
      > Please be advised that a new public policy and media monitoring
      > website has been created by a team of crime lab directors concerned
      > about the reputation of the forensic science profession and its
      > portrayal in the media. Our goal is to keep all forensic
      > practitioners, managers, and other criminal justice professionals
      > properly informed about critical issues facing crime labs.
      >
      > Crime Lab Report accepts manuscripts and commentary for
      publication,
      > so this is an excellent opportunity for forensic scientists to
      voice
      > their opinion about the public-policy side of their profession.
      >
      > Also, if you are assigned to a crime laboratory that currently
      finds
      > itself the subject of media attention, please let us know if you
      feel
      > that the reporting is incomplete or unfair. We will do our best to
      > help set the record straight if we believe it is warranted.
      >
      > We hope you enjoy Crime Lab Report and look forward to any feedback
      > you may be kind enough to provide.
      >
      > John M. Collins
      > Chief Editor
      >
      >
      >
      > Brent
      > Brent E. Turvey, MS - Forensic Science
      > Forensic Solutions, LLC
      > bturvey@...
      > http://www.forensic-science.com
      >
      > Author of:
      > Turvey, B. (2002) Criminal Profiling, 2nd Ed., London: Elsevier
      Science
      > http://www.corpus-delicti.com/fs_bookstore/cp/cp_index.html
      >
      > Savino J. & Turvey B. (2004) Rape Investigation Handbook, San
      Diego:
      > Elsevier Science
      > http://www.corpus-delicti.com/fs_bookstore/rih/rih_index.html
      >
      > Chisum, W.J. & Turvey B. (2006) Crime Reconstruction, Boston:
      > Elsevier Science
      > http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/bookdescription.editors/707312/
      > description
      >
      > "... the intermixing of science and politics is a bad combination
      > with a bad history. We must remember the history, and be certain
      that
      > what we present to the world as knowledge is disinterested and
      honest."
      > - Crichton, M. (2004) State of Fear, New York: Harper-Collins
      > Publisher; p.638
      >
    • Brent Turvey
      John; I ve read the pieces on your site by staff members, and I ve got to say that they are fairly problematic. These rather biased opinion pieces take the
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 3, 2007
        John;

        I've read the pieces on your site by staff members, and I've got to
        say that they are fairly problematic. These rather biased opinion
        pieces take the indefensible position, at the outset, that problems
        in the forensic science community are isolated. Moreover, they blame
        the bad reputation of crime labs these days on biased reporting,
        malicious defense attorneys, and the "PhD patrol" (self-serving
        college professors). Unfortunately, this flies in the face of the
        sheer volume of crime lab scandals in the past decade, and the
        failure of the forensic science community to hold even obvious frauds
        accountable for their actions. The solutions that you propose seem to
        involve seeking out favorable press, and when none exists -- creating
        it. That doesn't address the problem it just turns up the white noise
        to mask it.

        And I quote: "What is needed from the forensic science community is
        an honest, well-coordinated, and proactive public relations campaign
        that keeps the internet and public airways perpetually saturated with
        accurate information."

        Actually this is not what's needed. What's needed is real leadership,
        separation from law enforcement, honesty in interpretations, actual
        scientific education for examiners, accountability for fraud and
        falsehood, and oversight. In other words, real science and real
        scientific results, not just good press to match the bad.

        The press, the defense attorneys, and the PhD Patrol are the only
        things actually keeping forensic science honest at all at this point.
        Reforms have only come, and bad science exposed, because of these
        components. Absent these, the forensic community could have continued
        hiding, say, Joyce Gilchrist, whom the AAFS protected for 15 years.
        One example from hundreds represented thousands of cases where fraud
        and misrepresentation have been knowingly presented in court.

        As for the ACLD and ASCLD/ LAB issue, I understand the paper
        separation. What I don't understand is why nobody talks about how
        partial ASCLD/ LAB is (partial or essentially powerless and therefore
        worthless to the community - other than to provide a false sense of
        certification).

        Brent





        On Aug 24, 2007, at 4:47 PM, John M. Collins wrote:

        Dear Brent,

        Thanks for your reply.

        I think if you review our writings, you will find both positive and
        critical analysis of forensic science. Our editorial board is not
        interested in advocacy. It is interested in accuracy. Over time,
        this will become very evident. I would encourage you to visit our
        site and see for yourself.

        With respect, the second part of your reply indicates the very kind
        of misconception that our project is attempting to correct. ASCLD
        does not accredit crime laboratories. ASCLD/LAB accredits crime
        laboratories. ASCLD/LAB broke free of ASCLD in 1988 when it
        formally incorporated itself as a not-for-profit entity. The
        decision to retain the original "ASCLD" part of its name has been the
        source of understandable disagreement. ASCLD is simply a
        professional society of crime laboratory directors who gather once a
        year for training and professional discourse.

        Furthermore, CRIME LAB REPORT is not affiliated with ASCLD or any
        other organization. It is independent.

        Best wishes.

        --- In forensic-science@yahoogroups.com, Brent Turvey <bturvey@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > John;
        >
        > This looks and reads a lot like spin and positive PR; like a
        > political effort as opposed to a substantive one.
        >
        > Please help me understand how your initiative holds the forensic
        > science community more responsible as opposed to trying to damage
        > control the swollen tide of bad administration, bad science, and
        > unprofessional examiners in our midst?
        >
        > And please tell me how ASCLD (with which you and your effort are
        > affiliated) is worth anything after failing to pull the
        accreditation
        > of DNA Security, Inc. after it's director conspired with
        prosecutor's
        > to withhold exculpatory evidence in the Duke LaCrosse case last
        year.
        >
        > Crime labs don't need better PR. They need better people and more
        > accountability.
        >
        > I'll leave it at that.
        >
        > Brent
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Aug 20, 2007, at 2:12 PM, John M. Collins wrote:
        >
        > http://www.crimelabreport.com
        >
        > Please be advised that a new public policy and media monitoring
        > website has been created by a team of crime lab directors concerned
        > about the reputation of the forensic science profession and its
        > portrayal in the media. Our goal is to keep all forensic
        > practitioners, managers, and other criminal justice professionals
        > properly informed about critical issues facing crime labs.
        >
        > Crime Lab Report accepts manuscripts and commentary for
        publication,
        > so this is an excellent opportunity for forensic scientists to
        voice
        > their opinion about the public-policy side of their profession.
        >
        > Also, if you are assigned to a crime laboratory that currently
        finds
        > itself the subject of media attention, please let us know if you
        feel
        > that the reporting is incomplete or unfair. We will do our best to
        > help set the record straight if we believe it is warranted.
        >
        > We hope you enjoy Crime Lab Report and look forward to any feedback
        > you may be kind enough to provide.
        >
        > John M. Collins
        > Chief Editor



        Brent
        Brent E. Turvey, MS - Forensic Science
        Forensic Solutions, LLC
        bturvey@...
        http://www.forensic-science.com

        Author of:
        Turvey, B. (2002) Criminal Profiling, 2nd Ed., London: Elsevier Science
        http://www.corpus-delicti.com/fs_bookstore/cp/cp_index.html

        Savino J. & Turvey B. (2004) Rape Investigation Handbook, San Diego:
        Elsevier Science
        http://www.corpus-delicti.com/fs_bookstore/rih/rih_index.html

        Chisum, W.J. & Turvey B. (2006) Crime Reconstruction, Boston:
        Elsevier Science
        http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/bookdescription.editors/707312/
        description

        "... the intermixing of science and politics is a bad combination
        with a bad history. We must remember the history, and be certain that
        what we present to the world as knowledge is disinterested and honest."
        - Crichton, M. (2004) State of Fear, New York: Harper-Collins
        Publisher; p.638
      • John Collins
        Mr. Turvey, Crime Lab Report makes it very clear that its analyses are opinion-based and should not be construed as fact without corroborating information.
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 5, 2007
          Mr. Turvey,

          Crime Lab Report makes it very clear that its analyses are opinion-based and should not be construed as fact without corroborating information. Furthermore, we allow readers to submit comments in response to our editorials. This is a very responsible approach intended to spark dialogue about a very important subject matter.

          ------------------------------------------------------------
          John M. Collins
          Chief Editor - Crime Lab Report
          www.crimelabreport.com
          ------------------------------------------------------------

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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