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  • Michael Everson
    ... -- Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 3, 2008
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      From our newest member:

      >I'm and engineer, have designed a few fonts over
      >the past 12 years in
      >FOG 4.1.5, need help with updating an old custom Mac font for TT
      >Windows, has glyphs in upper 128 space that are lost.


      --
      Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
    • Raymond Weisling
      ... I was going to lurk for a bit here, but it seems very quiet, so I ll pop up and awaken the crew... First, I use FOG 4.1.5 on an older Mac because the font
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 3, 2008
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        ##### level-1 quote by Michael Everson (on) 03.03.08 (at) 09:54 +0000

        >From our newest member:
        >
        > >I'm an engineer, have designed a few fonts over the past 12 years in
        >>FOG 4.1.5, need help with updating an old custom Mac font for TT
        > >Windows, has glyphs in upper 128 space that are lost.
        >

        I was going to lurk for a bit here, but it seems very quiet, so I'll
        pop up and awaken the crew...

        First, I use FOG 4.1.5 on an older Mac because the font stuff I do is
        just volunteer work, no income, labour of love, yada-yada. I'd *love*
        to get a newer FOG or whatever, but can't justify the cost.

        The font was created using Macintosh encoding and has a bunch of
        zero-width symbols and very large ascender and descender values
        because many symbols reside above regular characters. (It is for
        notation of central Javanese music, which uses numbers 1-7, some with
        dots under or above for octave, plus much more.)

        In 1990 I had no Windows box so I created a Windows encoded TT font.
        But now I found out that quite a few glyphs vanished from that
        version due to the original chap who made it having relied on Mac
        keyboard shortcuts, when those characters are on the list of .notdef
        on Windows. In particular, a string of elevated numbers 1-7 using
        shift-opt-1 thru 7.

        I'm trying to achieve three possibly mutually exclusive goals.

        1. Make a Windows TT font with these symbols.

        2. The Windows font should allow documents to be made and editable on
        Mac, and visa-versa.

        3. The original Mac font should not be changed, or else it will break
        many files in many people's archives.

        What is encouraging is that documentation done on the Mac, and
        Acrobat Distilled with embedded fonts, can be opened on Windows with
        100% perfection, nothing lost. Distiller knows what I want to know ;-)

        Any suggestions, crew? TIA!

        Raymond Weisling
        from Yogyakarta, Java, Indonesia
      • johnroshell
        ... Hi, Raymond. Welcome aboard! ... Pretty much everything you see on the keyboard is fair game for windows and macs. Are all of those characters used up in
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 4, 2008
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          --- In fontographer@yahoogroups.com, Raymond Weisling <rw-ee@...> wrote:
          >

          > I was going to lurk for a bit here, but it seems very quiet, so I'll
          > pop up and awaken the crew...
          >
          > First, I use FOG 4.1.5 on an older Mac because the font stuff I do is
          > just volunteer work, no income, labour of love, yada-yada. I'd *love*
          > to get a newer FOG or whatever, but can't justify the cost.
          >

          Hi, Raymond. Welcome aboard!

          > 1. Make a Windows TT font with these symbols.

          Pretty much everything you see on the keyboard is fair game for windows and macs. Are
          all of those characters used up in your font? I'm not a Windows user, but I think the upper
          and lowercase option-letters (minus i, e and u, which indicate accents to be placed over
          the next letter entered) should be safe.


          > 2. The Windows font should allow documents to be made and editable on
          > Mac, and visa-versa.

          Windows TTFs work in Mac OSX with no problem.

          > 3. The original Mac font should not be changed, or else it will break
          > many files in many people's archives.

          Well, try leaving the characters in the original location as well as the new location, and
          give it a try. I'd be happy to install it on the Mac and try it out if you need a tester.

          JG
        • Raymond Weisling
          ... Actually the lower 95 accessible characters are all used but 1, but in the code space above 128 only 38 are used. But the main problem is choosing an
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 6, 2008
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            ##### level-1 quote by johnroshell (on) 04.03.08 (at) 16:49 +0000

            >Hi, Raymond. Welcome aboard!
            >
            >> 1. Make a Windows TT font with these symbols.
            >
            >Pretty much everything you see on the keyboard is fair game for
            >windows and macs. Are
            >all of those characters used up in your font? I'm not a Windows
            >user, but I think the upper
            >and lowercase option-letters (minus i, e and u, which indicate
            >accents to be placed over
            >the next letter entered) should be safe.

            Actually the lower 95 accessible characters are all used but 1, but
            in the code space above 128 only 38 are used. But the main problem is
            choosing an encoding so that on the Windows TT font nothing is lost,
            and so far I lose 5-10 glyphs. If I change the Mac encoding to Adobe
            Standard it may work, but then all of the Mac character codes and
            keyboard associations change, and we have hundreds of people using
            this font in existing documents, since 2000.

            >
            >> 2. The Windows font should allow documents to be made and editable on
            >> Mac, and visa-versa.
            >
            >Windows TTFs work in Mac OSX with no problem.

            OK, but again, compatibility with old documents is an issue.

            >
            >> 3. The original Mac font should not be changed, or else it will break
            >> many files in many people's archives.
            >
            >Well, try leaving the characters in the original location as well as
            >the new location, and
            >give it a try. I'd be happy to install it on the Mac and try it out
            >if you need a tester.

            You mean place the same glyph in two slots? But then it will not
            allow a document to be carried across platforms.

            This mail list seems very quiet. Is it always like this??

            Ray
          • Michael Everson
            ... Interesting. I d like to see it. I recently prepared a proposal to encode Javanese script. When I was in Java we found that unlike the Balinese they did
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 7, 2008
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              At 08:55 +0700 2008-03-04, Raymond Weisling wrote:

              >The font was created using Macintosh encoding and has a bunch of
              >zero-width symbols and very large ascender and descender values
              >because many symbols reside above regular characters. (It is for
              >notation of central Javanese music, which uses numbers 1-7, some with
              >dots under or above for octave, plus much more.)

              Interesting. I'd like to see it. I recently prepared a proposal to
              encode Javanese script. When I was in Java we found that unlike the
              Balinese they did not use a complex system of musical notation, but
              rather on a number and dot system as you describe.

              >In 1990 I had no Windows box so I created a Windows encoded TT font.
              >But now I found out that quite a few glyphs vanished from that
              >version due to the original chap who made it having relied on Mac
              >keyboard shortcuts, when those characters are on the list of .notdef
              >on Windows. In particular, a string of elevated numbers 1-7 using
              >shift-opt-1 thru 7.

              Do you have a list of all the glyphs and all the characters they
              corresponded to?

              >I'm trying to achieve three possibly mutually exclusive goals.
              >
              >1. Make a Windows TT font with these symbols.
              >
              >2. The Windows font should allow documents to be made and editable on
              >Mac, and visa-versa.

              There can be issues with older v. newer Mac OS.

              >3. The original Mac font should not be changed, or else it will break
              >many files in many people's archives.
              >
              >What is encouraging is that documentation done on the Mac, and
              >Acrobat Distilled with embedded fonts, can be opened on Windows with
              >100% perfection, nothing lost. Distiller knows what I want to know ;-)

              The thing to do is to process your font in FontLab, I think.
              --
              Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
            • Michael Everson
              ... Do you know which ones? I suppose I d need to see your Fog file. ... One option is to upgrade and replace the documents, but let s not go there now. ...
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 7, 2008
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                At 09:56 +0700 2008-03-07, Raymond Weisling wrote:

                >Actually the lower 95 accessible characters are all used but 1, but
                >in the code space above 128 only 38 are used. But the main problem is
                >choosing an encoding so that on the Windows TT font nothing is lost,
                >and so far I lose 5-10 glyphs.

                Do you know which ones?

                I suppose I'd need to see your Fog file.

                >If I change the Mac encoding to Adobe
                >Standard it may work, but then all of the Mac character codes and
                >keyboard associations change, and we have hundreds of people using
                >this font in existing documents, since 2000.

                One option is to upgrade and replace the documents, but let's not go there now.

                >This mail list seems very quiet. Is it always like this??

                Pretty much. We don't have very many issues with Fog.

                I do have some issues about the character names it contains.
                --
                Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
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