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  • Stephan Schneider
    ... There have always been (as long as I remember) a vast variety of FS dialects, and my dialect Folksprak exists for less than a year. I think that each one
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 2, 2006
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      Ingmar (de maker ov Middelsprake)(okso kennet alls Cham) skrived:
      >I'd suggest to study these and try to built further from them.
      >
      >Chamavian a.k.a. Ingmar Roerdinkholder

      There have always been (as long as I remember) a vast variety of FS dialects, and my dialect "Folksprak" exists for less than a year. I think that each one of us is already copying the best features of the dialects and that's how FS grows, it grows very well. Of course, one should first look what has been done already in order to be "inspired" and in order to have an idea about what a FS grammar should contain. The self-made grammar that follows is both a comment and a proposal.

      Would you Ingmar/Cham like to be called "Ingmar" or "Cham"? I didn't know it was you. What about your Middelsprak(e)? Any development / new revolutionary thoughts?

      >I'd say: "tynke" is a potential FS because several source languages
      >have a cognate. But is it a really necessary verb? In Dutch it's
      >hardly used, the expression "me dunkt" is actually getting quite old
      >fashioned. "Het lijkt me ..." or "het schijnt dat ..." or "ik denk
      >dat ..." or "ik zou denken dat ..." are better and far more used
      >than "me dunkt" in Dutch.
      >For simplicity's sake I would leave it out of FS myself.
      >
      >The question is: does every word that is shared by a number of
      >source languages have to be part of Folksprak vocabulary?

      Also German "mich dünkt" is old-fashioned. "Het lijkt me ..." looks interesting. Probably it is cognate to German "Es gleicht mir ..." (even though nobody says so). My Wordskatt already has "gelike" as a verb. That's an alternative, too. I wouldn't like to have a word like "to shine" with the meaning of "to seem"... but that's yet another problem: which words should be used in which context (nautical "styrbord", for example, only in nautical context, or in everyday usage, too), or in which style (maybe "explanation" sounds more sophistical than "erclarung"; like "tynke" might seem more archaic and rare than "gelike"). I'm still collecting words, I don't like to valuate them already. I must admit, often I don't even know if a German word has a cognate outside German. (Like, in fact, "tynke", thank you for discussing and collecting, y'all.)

      >PG *-lik > -lich, -ly, -lig, -lig, -lijk => -lig (FS)

      Hm. And what about "lik", EN "like", DE "gleich". Would that be "lig" or "lik"?

      >Creating Folksprak, we have to learn not to think too much of
      >ProtoGermanic, a language no-one knows or is even reconstructed
      >completely, because that language is about just as foreign and
      >incomprehensible for speakers of modern Germanic languages as Latin
      >or Old Irish.

      The good think about PG is only that it gives a first idea of how a FS word could look like. Of course, if the result doesn't look like the Modern Germanic cognates, then it should be replaced, for instance: PG *goisd-oz has "t" in all modern cognates (and it would be the only FS word ending in "sd" so far). So it ends in "st" in FS.

      But with "-lig" I don't feel the same. I reduced vowel and consonant mutations as far as possible for what I call simplicity. And voicing (k -> g, e. g. "ikke" -> "igge" in Danish) or "fricativization" (k -> ch, e. g. "spraak" -> "Sprache" in German) are these kinds of mutations that I would like to avoid.

      >If we want a simple FS that is easily recognizable and under-
      >standable we have to start from what is already there with the
      >learners, and that is the knowledge of their own Germanic language
      >and maybe one or two others.
      >
      >You may think it's confusing to you when you see a sentence like
      >
      >"naturlig ig spreke alrede Folksprak"

      Sincerly spoken, it's hard for me to spell a "-g" after vowel. As a German, I tend to unvoice it, and something like

      "Naturlik sprek ik ... Folksprak"

      >because it has both -g and -k from a ProtoGermanic point of view.
      >And German has -ch here (but not in "Volk-", so it's not completely
      >regular too)

      Well, yes, I would ask: If k turns to g in these occasions, in which occasions t turns do d and p to b?

      >But if you look at English and Scandinavian, we find -ly and -lig,
      >and I and jeg/jag/jei, so final -k is more confusing to speakers of
      >those languages.
      >
      >See what I mean?

      Yes, I do. "-lig" and "ig" (or even "i") would do as well, as suffixes and pronouns are a very special kind of their own. I would need to ask a speaker of these languages in order to be sure if it would be confusing or not.

      >And this is only about very few and very much used words, I don't
      >think that's so confusing, for no-one but especially not for you.

      Thank you.

      David (de maker ov Folksprâk) skrived:
      >Well I was ironical about the keel-hauling. But I am more than half
      >serious about using "backbord" for left. If you can see past the
      >nautical aspect, it does meet the criteria of being present in 3/4 of
      >the source languages. And it is present in other widely spoken
      >languages too.

      I already have "styrbord" in my dialect, but I haven't "back" (coming soon), so there's no "backbord" yet, but probably it's going to be "backbord". So I think that "styrbord" should be FS vocabulary, because, as you pointed out, it is present in the source languages (I think that's correct both for "starbord" and for "backbord"). But, if you will use "backbord" and "styrbord" in Folksprak, you would sound to me like an old Folksprakian captain on vacation. :-) In my opinion "styrbord" and "backbord" should be part of the nautical vocabulary of FS. For the daily usage, I'd use "to de reht sid" and "to de link sid" or "rehts" and "links".

      >Of the non-nautical words for left, "links" is the more
      >inter-germanic, but even this is only represented in Dutch and German.

      As I pointed out before, "link" is actually the same word as "left". It's hardly recognizable. They are derived from FS "liht", DE "leicht", EN "light". I prefer "link" instead of "left" because it looks slightly more different to "liht".

      >Folksprak creation seems to so far be a more civil affair than
      >pan-slavic language movements such as Slovio or Slovianski. It seems
      >when you collect pan-slavists, you attract more than a few extremists.
      >Slovio's Yahoo group seems to be full of people saying "Yes lets make
      >a pan-slavic language, because we Slavs should stick together --
      >except for those bastard [insert nationality here] who sold us all out
      >to the Nazis/Ottomans/Mongols/Elders of Zion."

      LOL! I wonder how they discussed on Interlingua: We Romans should stick together against... well, too late! The Empire has gone.

      >I have just found out that Swedish has "tyckas" which means "seem".
      >I'm now more convinced that "tynke" should be in FS. I'm not sure of
      >the exact syntax for using it though.

      In German we use it with accustative:

      "Mich dünkt, das ist so." - "Mi tynk, dat is so."

      If we use it freely (not as a fixed expression), I would use it as this:

      "Das *dünkt mich so zu sein." - "Dat tynk mi at wese so."

      (I use "at" because "tynke" doesn't seem to be an auxilary verb to me.)

      >"Tyckas" in swedish is a passive verb, based on "tycka" which means to
      >think. So the literal meaning of "tyckas" is "to be thought... ". And in
      >essence, that is what "seem" means.
      >If I say "he seemed nice to me", it is effectively saying "he was
      >thought to be nice by me", or "I thought that he was nice."
      >Perhaps "tynke" could be used as an adverb (rather than a productive
      >verb) in a fixed phrase only. Something like "mitynk". So directly
      >translated as "supposedly" or "apparently" or "seemingly".
      >"Hi is mitynk fryndlik", could mean "he seems to be friendly" or
      >"Apparently he is friendly" BTW what should a FS word for "nice" be???

      Ah, then maybe "tyckas" is not related with "tynke", since "tynke" comes from PG *thunk-j-an and "tenke" comes from *thank-j-an. But maybe in PG they are somehow related. I would like to have "tynke" as verb, though. The same goes for "gerne" with should be a verb (like EN "to yearn") and an adjective ("gern", like DE "gern(e)").

      "nice" ... good question. In German there is "nett", but I don't know where it's from. I will surely look it up again.
      Other German words are "genehm", "angenehm". FS "genem"?

      Roly skrived:
      >Kul. Jo ig giss man kund schraive "sk" ODER "sch" - de ungelaikhed
      >iss nit grot, end et iss gelaik "w" ODER "v". Mid "i" et iss nit so
      >enfald doch. Iss nit de autspreking /ai/ end /au/ better for
      >hochtydisch end englisch hav de difftongs end nederlandisch hav ander
      >diftongs, nit de ald lang vokals?

      In the beginning I wrote "v", too, by the way. Then I changed to "w".
      About "I": I am used to see English "I" and to spell it "aI". So, if you would like to have "ai" Folksprak, it would suffice to have an (alternative) spelling rule, which says that "I" may be pronounced as "aI". I used to call that "Western Style" (vs. "Northern Style"). But I guess it's easier for me Western Germanic speaker to spell "min" like EN "mine" than it would be for a Northern Germanic speaker to see "main" or "mein" and associate it immediately with "min". That's why I prefer "min hus" instead of "main haus". It looks to me like someone has dropped too many "a"s, too.

      >...oder "et fyl (mi) gud (tu mi)", "et se gud aut". Oder wi kund
      >brauke all de verbs hu englisch END "see" ok - "dat se gud" = that
      >looks good, "dat se gudlig" = that sees well. Magwes DAT is warfor
      >englisch brauk so fel "ly" endings!?

      Dat is en god teori, ik tenk. Aver til nu, ik hav ne motet gebruke en suffix fyr onderskide twisk adverben ond adjectiven in Folksprak. Ond ik find, dat is god. Ik mag gerner make en onderskid twisk dat transitiv ond intransitiv verben ov perception lik "foele", "see", "hoere" ond so wider. En suffix lik "se" ware god fyr dat. (Ok wan dat implicer formen lik "sese"...)

      That smells good. - Dat rykse god.
      That sounds good. - Dat hoerse god.
      That feels good. - Dat foelse god.
      That looks good. - Dat sese god.
      My name is ... - Ik helse ...


      Eugene (de maker ov Gemönsprak) skrived:
      >Dear Chamavian!
      >I do not want to invent a new Folksprak, "my" Gemönsprak will "only" be
      >a everyday language of Folksprak. As a Slovio-nik -I do not like copy
      >cats. If you do not mind I´d like to work with you (pl.) on developing
      >Folksprak
      >Eugene

      Köl! Help is welkomen.

      >Better hohland German compared to nederland German.

      War is de tydisk hohland and nederland? Endskuldig mi, aver ik kenn ne dat worden.

      >I was interested to discover that there is an alternative inter-slavic
      >language being developed called "Slavianski". Judging by their forum,
      >it seems to be a reaction to Slovio's rigorous use of esperanto-like
      >grammar and seems to be aiming to create a more naturalistic slavic
      >language. The biggest problem that I have with Slovio, is that it is
      >copyrighted and the "source code" is not available. So there don't
      >seem to be notes on Mark Hucko's methods for making it, or guidelines
      >for coining new words. (Because it is not open source, he probably
      >doesn't want just anybody adding words willy-nilly)

      Copyrighting languages is a strange thing. Sooner or later an open-source-project will appear, like Lojban after Loglang. Even after Esperanto there was Ido, but Ido was too open-sourced, it seems. (The source code of Esperanto is available, so to say, and words were being added all the time.)



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius
      En komplett unbunden (unconnected - wwat wuld ji sege?) schraiving ... Ig begann en tydisch klass disdag end two tings war lustig: 1) Aksents av tydisch - de
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 2, 2006
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        En komplett unbunden (unconnected - wwat wuld ji sege?) schraiving
        ... Ig begann en tydisch klass disdag end two tings war lustig:

        1) Aksents av tydisch - de lerer(in) segd "liebe" nar tu /'li:bO/
        oder solk, end de aksents up-an de CD war lustig ok! Fron Weimar ig
        tenk...kenn du de aksent fron Weimar Stephan?
        2) Et giv en nederlander(in) in de klass. Ig tenk si find et laicht
        tu ferstae tydisch, aver si sprek et ser fremd aut! "kauchen" oder
        "koechen" for "kochen" end ser lustig "r" lauds - /
        nOr\:mA:l@r\:BAiz@/ oder so, end /dAxtik/ for "achzig". Heheh. Ig
        giss en av de englanders iss slechter mid /zwOlf/ for /tsv2lf/ (et
        iss 2, ja? ig kann nimmer erinnere) doch. End si war ser "surprised"
        wan de lerer segd man/en seg nit "guten Mittag" in tydisch - seg man
        dat in nederlandisch?
      • chamavian
        Wat du beskrive af de maid in din klas klinge as en typisch Randstad- Hollandisch aksent af Nederlandisch, enig tinge make mi tenke special af Rotterdam: Her
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 2, 2006
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          Wat du beskrive af de maid in din klas klinge as en typisch Randstad-
          Hollandisch aksent af Nederlandisch, enig tinge make mi tenke special
          af Rotterdam:

          Her 'r' utsprak: end -r klinge dar ofte en lyttel likas de
          Amerikanisch-Engelisch -r, doch ennoch anderes, mer en j-klang...
          So, Diutisch "normalerweise" => [nOrj'ma:l@rj"Pa:Iz@]

          Typisch Hollandisch (ig mene mid dat: de Nederlandisch sprak af de NL
          provinties Noord-Holland on Zuid-Holland, on okso af Utrecht)
          is okso de utsprak [AU], [OU] or, in Rotterdam [@U] for NL lang o/oo
          [oU], fran dat ["kAUx@] oller ["k@Ux@] for Diutisch "kochen". Dat is
          naturlig nik richtig, fordat Diutisch ha en kort o in ["kOx@n], doch
          de NL word is "koken" ["koUk@]. Dis Rotterdam lang o [@U] is de self
          as in Engelish.

          Dan ["dAxtik] for Diutisch achzig ["AxtsIk]. Ig tenke dat si sege
          ["tAxtik], doch de NL t- is nik aspirered as de Diutisch on Engelisch
          t-, also NL ha nik en lyttel h-klang after t-, p-, k-, on darfor du
          hoere dat as d-, b-, g-.
          In NL de word for achttig is "tachtig" ["tAxt@x], fran dat komme her
          begin t- in dis word (wat du hoere also as d-).
          De Diutisch kort i [I] klinge for Nederlanders as [i], fordat wi
          spreke ut kort i as [e] on kort u as [2], darfor wi make af al
          Diutisch kort i's [i], af DT kort ü's [y] (not [Y]), on af DT kort u's
          [u] (not [U]).

          In NL

          "ik zit op de rug van die jongen"

          klinge as

          [ek set Op d@ r2x f\An di "jON@]

          on nik

          [Ik sIt op d@ rYx f\An di "joN@].

          Darfor wi hoere on spreke ut DT

          "ich sitze auf der Rücke dieses Junges"

          as

          [ix "sits@ AUf derj "ryk@ diz@s "juN@s]

          on nik, as in korrekt Diutisch, likas

          [IC "zIts@ AUf de9 "RYk@ "di:z@s "jUN@s].


          Doch Rol(e)y, ig motte geve to: si spreke ut her Diutisch mennig oevel.
          Moeglig si do dat ekstra... dat klinge fremmed doch enig Hollanders do
          dat. Oller fordat si tenke dat Nederlandisch on Diutisch er so nag,
          dat si finde dat swar to make de forschil?







          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius"
          <xipirho@...> wrote:
          >
          > En komplett unbunden (unconnected - wwat wuld ji sege?) schraiving
          > ... Ig begann en tydisch klass disdag end two tings war lustig:
          >
          > 1) Aksents av tydisch - de lerer(in) segd "liebe" nar tu /'li:bO/
          > oder solk, end de aksents up-an de CD war lustig ok! Fron Weimar ig
          > tenk...kenn du de aksent fron Weimar Stephan?
          > 2) Et giv en nederlander(in) in de klass. Ig tenk si find et laicht
          > tu ferstae tydisch, aver si sprek et ser fremd aut! "kauchen" oder
          > "koechen" for "kochen" end ser lustig "r" lauds - /
          > nOr\:mA:l@r\:BAiz@/ oder so, end /dAxtik/ for "achzig". Heheh. Ig
          > giss en av de englanders iss slechter mid /zwOlf/ for /tsv2lf/ (et
          > iss 2, ja? ig kann nimmer erinnere) doch. End si war ser "surprised"
          > wan de lerer segd man/en seg nit "guten Mittag" in tydisch - seg man
          > dat in nederlandisch?
          >
        • Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius
          Se main komments undern... ... Randstad- ... special ... Ja! Absolut! Et war swer tu schraive mid IPA, aver ja, /rj/ oder so iss ser gud. ... NL ... oo ... is
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 2, 2006
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            Se main komments undern...

            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wat du beskrive af de maid in din klas klinge as en typisch
            Randstad-
            > Hollandisch aksent af Nederlandisch, enig tinge make mi tenke
            special
            > af Rotterdam:
            >
            > Her 'r' utsprak: end -r klinge dar ofte en lyttel likas de
            > Amerikanisch-Engelisch -r, doch ennoch anderes, mer en j-klang...
            > So, Diutisch "normalerweise" => [nOrj'ma:l@rj"Pa:Iz@]

            Ja! Absolut! Et war swer tu schraive mid IPA, aver ja, /rj/ oder so
            iss ser gud.

            >
            > Typisch Hollandisch (ig mene mid dat: de Nederlandisch sprak af de
            NL
            > provinties Noord-Holland on Zuid-Holland, on okso af Utrecht)
            > is okso de utsprak [AU], [OU] or, in Rotterdam [@U] for NL lang o/
            oo
            > [oU], fran dat ["kAUx@] oller ["k@Ux@] for Diutisch "kochen". Dat
            is
            > naturlig nik richtig, fordat Diutisch ha en kort o in ["kOx@n],
            doch
            > de NL word is "koken" ["koUk@]. Dis Rotterdam lang o [@U] is de
            self
            > as in Engelish.

            A! Dat mak perfekt sinn! Ig fand et ser fremd dat si segd /Au/ oder so
            - de lererin ferstond si nit tu erst! - aver nu ig se warfor.
            >
            > Dan ["dAxtik] for Diutisch achzig ["AxtsIk]. Ig tenke dat si sege
            > ["tAxtik], doch de NL t- is nik aspirered as de Diutisch on
            Engelisch
            > t-, also NL ha nik en lyttel h-klang after t-, p-, k-, on darfor du
            > hoere dat as d-, b-, g-.
            > In NL de word for achttig is "tachtig" ["tAxt@x], fran dat komme
            her
            > begin t- in dis word (wat du hoere also as d-).

            Ja! Ach, mann, dat mak total sinn! Ja, ig war nit sikker ov si hadd /
            t-/ oder /d-/ segd ...warfor hav nederlandisch en /t/ up-an de
            beginning?!? Ach, end ig wuld schraive [-Ik] nit [-ik], unschuld mi,
            aver ig witt nit ov si segd [@x] oder [Ik].


            > De Diutisch kort i [I] klinge for Nederlanders as [i], fordat wi
            > spreke ut kort i as [e] on kort u as [2], darfor wi make af al
            > Diutisch kort i's [i], af DT kort ü's [y] (not [Y]), on af DT kort
            u's
            > [u] (not [U]).
            >
            > In NL
            >
            > "ik zit op de rug van die jongen"
            >
            > klinge as
            >
            > [ek set Op d@ r2x f\An di "jON@]
            >
            > on nik
            >
            > [Ik sIt op d@ rYx f\An di "joN@].
            >
            > Darfor wi hoere on spreke ut DT
            >
            > "ich sitze auf der Rücke dieses Junges"
            >
            > as
            >
            > [ix "sits@ AUf derj "ryk@ diz@s "juN@s]
            >
            > on nik, as in korrekt Diutisch, likas
            >
            > [IC "zIts@ AUf de9 "RYk@ "di:z@s "jUN@s].


            Ser ser interessant aver en bittken fremd!!! So all de kort <u>s in
            nederlandisch ar /2/ end de lang <u>s ar /y/ end de <oe>s ar /u/?


            >
            >
            > Doch Rol(e)y, ig motte geve to: si spreke ut her Diutisch mennig
            oevel.
            > Moeglig si do dat ekstra... dat klinge fremmed doch enig Hollanders
            do
            > dat. Oller fordat si tenke dat Nederlandisch on Diutisch er so nag,
            > dat si finde dat swar to make de forschil?


            Wat betyd "do dat ekstra"? Aver ja, ig tenk si tenk nederlanisch iss
            so nar tydisch si kann sprak nederlandisch mid som wexings ...aver
            magwes de ar nit SO nar, spesiell mid autspraking. Ik tenk englisch
            end tydisch ar en bittken 'narer' mid autspraking - for exempell /
            I/, /U/, /au/, /ai/, /S/, /g/, /a/, end /r/ iss weg in fel tydisch
            end englisch axents, aver de schraiving av lauds iss narer twix
            tydisch end nederlandisch "oo", "ee" et cetera. ...end naturlig
            nederlandisch iss narer englisch mid som tings /o:/ ([@u]), end /w/
            et cetera... hm.


            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius"
            > <xipirho@> wrote:
            > >
            > > En komplett unbunden (unconnected - wwat wuld ji sege?) schraiving
            > > ... Ig begann en tydisch klass disdag end two tings war lustig:
            > >
            > > 1) Aksents av tydisch - de lerer(in) segd "liebe" nar tu /'li:bO/
            > > oder solk, end de aksents up-an de CD war lustig ok! Fron Weimar
            ig
            > > tenk...kenn du de aksent fron Weimar Stephan?
            > > 2) Et giv en nederlander(in) in de klass. Ig tenk si find et
            laicht
            > > tu ferstae tydisch, aver si sprek et ser fremd aut! "kauchen"
            oder
            > > "koechen" for "kochen" end ser lustig "r" lauds - /
            > > nOr\:mA:l@r\:BAiz@/ oder so, end /dAxtik/ for "achzig". Heheh. Ig
            > > giss en av de englanders iss slechter mid /zwOlf/ for /tsv2lf/
            (et
            > > iss 2, ja? ig kann nimmer erinnere) doch. End si war ser
            "surprised"
            > > wan de lerer segd man/en seg nit "guten Mittag" in tydisch - seg
            man
            > > dat in nederlandisch?
            > >
            >
          • stefichjo
            ... En hel onbonden skrivung... Ik begann en tydisk class hidag ond twe tingen war lustig: What is unconnected ? I see you use end as EN and , but EN
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 3, 2006
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              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius"
              <xipirho@...> wrote:
              >
              > En komplett unbunden (unconnected - wwat wuld ji sege?) schraiving
              > ... Ig begann en tydisch klass disdag end two tings war lustig:

              "En hel onbonden skrivung... Ik begann en tydisk class hidag ond twe
              tingen war lustig:"

              What is "unconnected"?

              I see you use "end" as EN "and", but EN "end" would be probably
              FS "end", too, so, wouldn't you like to use something
              like "and", "ond", "und"?

              > 1) Aksents av tydisch - de lerer(in) segd "liebe" nar tu /'li:bO/
              > oder solk, end de aksents up-an de CD war lustig ok! Fron Weimar ig
              > tenk...kenn du de aksent fron Weimar Stephan?

              Yes, that's normal. In Berlin, we say something like "'li:ba". You
              just swallow any postvocalic "r" in these regions.

              > 2) Et giv en nederlander(in) in de klass. Ig tenk si find et laicht
              > tu ferstae tydisch, aver si sprek et ser fremd aut! "kauchen" oder
              > "koechen" for "kochen" end ser lustig "r" lauds - /
              > nOr\:mA:l@r\:BAiz@/ oder so, end /dAxtik/ for "achzig". Heheh. Ig
              > giss en av de englanders iss slechter mid /zwOlf/ for /tsv2lf/ (et
              > iss 2, ja? ig kann nimmer erinnere) doch. End si war ser "surprised"
              > wan de lerer segd man/en seg nit "guten Mittag" in tydisch - seg man
              > dat in nederlandisch?

              Het is "2", ja.

              Groeten,
              Stephan
            • Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius
              ... twe ... Ig men hu seg en unconnected upan FS? ... Na ig will dat en seg et mid en schwa, so et must en e bukstav have. De kontext mak et klar upan
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 3, 2006
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                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "stefichjo" <sts@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius"
                > <xipirho@> wrote:
                > >
                > > En komplett unbunden (unconnected - wwat wuld ji sege?) schraiving
                > > ... Ig begann en tydisch klass disdag end two tings war lustig:
                >
                > "En hel onbonden skrivung... Ik begann en tydisk class hidag ond
                twe
                > tingen war lustig:"
                >
                > What is "unconnected"?

                Ig men "hu seg en 'unconnected' upan FS?"


                >
                > I see you use "end" as EN "and", but EN "end" would be probably
                > FS "end", too, so, wouldn't you like to use something
                > like "and", "ond", "und"?

                Na ig will dat en seg et mid en schwa, so et must en "e" bukstav
                have. De kontext mak et klar upan mestens ig tenk. Ig brauk "de" for
                "they" end "the", so warfor nit "end" for de bed?

                >
                > > 1) Aksents av tydisch - de lerer(in) segd "liebe" nar tu /'li:bO/
                > > oder solk, end de aksents up-an de CD war lustig ok! Fron Weimar
                ig
                > > tenk...kenn du de aksent fron Weimar Stephan?
                >
                > Yes, that's normal. In Berlin, we say something like "'li:ba". You
                > just swallow any postvocalic "r" in these regions.

                Ku-el, als en seg in tydisch! Ja, de lererin slugg/swalg de /r/s ok,
                aver si sprek ser "standard" tydisch ig tenk - ser gud. Si seg [6]
                anstadd, so /di:6/, /li:b6/ (for "lieber") - exakt hu de textbuks
                seg! Ok si seg /A:/ nit /a:/, end dat mak et safter ig tenk.

                >
                > > 2) Et giv en nederlander(in) in de klass. Ig tenk si find et
                laicht
                > > tu ferstae tydisch, aver si sprek et ser fremd aut! "kauchen"
                oder
                > > "koechen" for "kochen" end ser lustig "r" lauds - /
                > > nOr\:mA:l@r\:BAiz@/ oder so, end /dAxtik/ for "achzig". Heheh. Ig
                > > giss en av de englanders iss slechter mid /zwOlf/ for /tsv2lf/
                (et
                > > iss 2, ja? ig kann nimmer erinnere) doch. End si war ser
                "surprised"
                > > wan de lerer segd man/en seg nit "guten Mittag" in tydisch - seg
                man
                > > dat in nederlandisch?
                >
                > Het is "2", ja.

                Kul. Ig kann nimmer erinnere welk IPA symbol iss [2] end welk [9] in
                SAMPA!
              • stefichjo
                ... Ah, so! ... for ... Ik fersta. Dat mag gae. Ik gebruk okso de fyr the ond fyr they . ( de ond dë ) ... tu / li:bO/ ... Weimar ... You ... ok, ...
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 3, 2006
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                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias/Roley Sukius"
                  <xipirho@...> wrote:
                  > Ig men "hu seg en 'unconnected' upan FS?"

                  Ah, so!

                  > > I see you use "end" as EN "and", but EN "end" would be probably
                  > > FS "end", too, so, wouldn't you like to use something
                  > > like "and", "ond", "und"?
                  >
                  > Na ig will dat en seg et mid en schwa, so et must en "e" bukstav
                  > have. De kontext mak et klar upan mestens ig tenk. Ig brauk "de"
                  for
                  > "they" end "the", so warfor nit "end" for de bed?

                  Ik fersta. Dat mag gae.
                  Ik gebruk okso "de" fyr "the" ond fyr "they". ("de" ond "dë")

                  > > > 1) Aksents av tydisch - de lerer(in) segd "liebe" nar
                  tu /'li:bO/
                  > > > oder solk, end de aksents up-an de CD war lustig ok! Fron
                  Weimar
                  > ig
                  > > > tenk...kenn du de aksent fron Weimar Stephan?
                  > >
                  > > Yes, that's normal. In Berlin, we say something like "'li:ba".
                  You
                  > > just swallow any postvocalic "r" in these regions.
                  >
                  > Ku-el, als en seg in tydisch! Ja, de lererin slugg/swalg de /r/s
                  ok,
                  > aver si sprek ser "standard" tydisch ig tenk - ser gud. Si seg [6]
                  > anstadd, so /di:6/, /li:b6/ (for "lieber") - exakt hu de textbuks
                  > seg! Ok si seg /A:/ nit /a:/, end dat mak et safter ig tenk.

                  Ik hav tenket (tahet), dat /A/ is neen standard-tydisk phonëm...
                  Comisk.

                  > Kul. Ig kann nimmer erinnere welk IPA symbol iss [2] end welk [9]
                  in
                  > SAMPA!

                  Ja, ik mot ok alltid oppene Wikipedia fyr ferstae X-SAMPA. :-)

                  Du mag uptekene (recordere) dat:

                  "Wer anderen eine Grube gräbt, fällt selbst hinein."
                  "Was du heute kannst besorgen, das verschiebe nie auf morgen."
                  "Ehrlich währt am längsten."

                  Groeten / Gröten / Grøten,
                  Stephan
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