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Re: [folkspraak] Digest Number 231

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  • eparsels
    I personally would opt for a plural in -er, which would avoid any confusion (minimal, I agree) with the infinitive, but would look more like a comparative
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 5, 2002
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      I personally would opt for a plural in -er, which would avoid any confusion
      (minimal, I agree) with the infinitive, but would look more like a
      comparative adjective. But I also think that the widespread Germanic use
      of -s as the genitive ending for nouns should be looked at. It could go
      with either singular or plural with no confusion if the plural is -en
      or -er, but confusion is possible if the plural is -s.
      Erik
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <folkspraak@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <folkspraak@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 12:31 PM
      Subject: [folkspraak] Digest Number 231


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      There are 5 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Re: Shall vs Will
      From: Daan <dgoedkoop@...>
      2. Re: verb endings and plural
      From: Xipirho <xipirho@...>
      3. Re: verb endings and plural
      From: Jan-Willem Benjamins <benjaminsjw@...>
      4. Re: Re: verb endings and plural
      From: Daan <dgoedkoop@...>
      5. Re: Re: verb endings and plural
      From: Daan <dgoedkoop@...>


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      Message: 1
      Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:52:51 +0100
      From: Daan <dgoedkoop@...>
      Subject: Re: Shall vs Will

      A correction:

      > English German Dutch Swedish English cognate
      > will(future tense) soll zal ska shall
      > want(desire) will wil vill will

      Shall will be used for the future tense, so it should be something like
      sallen - "ik salle etten".

      "Ik wille etten" means "I want to eat!" and
      that's a big difference! Indeed, English is an exception here.



      > Not sure if it has been covered yet.
      >
      > ik wille etten, etc. = "I shall eat"
      >
      > Causes some questions for me in the Grammar.
      >
      > This Grammar only seems to be a reflection of American English.
      >
      > In Formal English, German and Swedish I find this:
      >
      >
      > English German Swedish
      > shall soll ska
      > will(desire) will vill
      >
      >
      > So this ywis makes the above statement say, I expect, I will to eat (or
      > I want to eat) not I shall eat.







      English:
      German:
      to will

      will

      God willing

      so Gott will

      I mean to say ...

      Ich will sagen ...

      I should say so!

      Das will ich meinen!

      That's the way he wants it.

      So will er es haben.

      That's saying a lot.

      Das will viel sagen.

      What's he driving at?

      Worauf will er hinaus?

      I know my own mind.

      Ich weiß, was ich will.

      Be that as it may.

      Das mag sein, wie es will.

      I won't hear of it.

      Ich will nichts davon hören.

      I won't argue that point.

      Das will ich nicht bestreiten.

      you had better not

      das will ich Ihnen nicht raten

      No pain, no gain.

      Wer schön sein will, muss leiden.

      she wants us to meet at 8 o'clock

      sie will, dass wir uns um 8 Uhr
      treffen

      to hedge

      sich winden (wenn man eine Frage
      nicht beantworten will)


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      Message: 2
      Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:12:38 +0000
      From: Xipirho <xipirho@...>
      Subject: Re: verb endings and plural

      Hey, I just realised (i'm hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if plurals
      are changed to end "-en", then won't they get confused with infinitive verb
      endings!?


      Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo. Roly/Orly/Vinyacálë.



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      Message: 3
      Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:27:40 +0100 (CET)
      From: Jan-Willem Benjamins <benjaminsjw@...>
      Subject: Re: verb endings and plural

      That risk exists.
      However, both dutch and german do things that way ,and from a life-long
      experience in dutch, I can say that it rarely leads to problems.
      But maybe, to avoid all complications, we should make plurals with -s.

      adjys

      Jan-Willem

      --- Xipirho <xipirho@...> skrev: > Hey, I just realised (i'm
      hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if
      > plurals
      > are changed to end "-en", then won't they get confused with
      > infinitive verb
      > endings!?
      >
      >
      > Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo. Roly/Orly/Vinyacálë.
      >


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      Message: 4
      Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:34:14 +0100
      From: Daan <dgoedkoop@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: verb endings and plural

      > Hey, I just realised (i'm hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if
      plurals
      > are changed to end "-en", then won't they get confused with infinitive
      verb
      > endings!?

      I see your point... however...

      They will not be confused!

      I speak Dutch, which uses -en both for infinitives and plurals; and they are
      not confused, thanks to two simple systems: the article and capitalisation.

      English Dutch Folkspraak
      the fish de vis det Fisk
      the fishes de vissen die Fisken
      to fish vissen fisken

      so "die Fisken" is a noun, "fisken" is a verb.


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      Message: 5
      Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 10:40:13 +0100
      From: Daan <dgoedkoop@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: verb endings and plural

      One little note:

      what about stems ending in -e (or another vowel)?

      go gaa
      to go gaaen? gaan? gaen?

      bag taske
      bags taskeen? tasken?

      Actually, I go for gaan and tasken, but probably not-Dutch speakers would
      prefer another variant...


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