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Re: [folkspraak] Digest Number 230

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  • eparsels
    In regard to the future, shall and will in English, comparable to sollen and wollen in German and skula and villa in Swedish, started their careers as modal
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 5, 2002
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      In regard to the future, shall and will in English, comparable to sollen and
      wollen in German and skula and villa in Swedish, started their careers as
      modal auvilliaries, much like 'may', 'can', etc. Ancient Germans had no
      future tense per se, only a present and a past. All talk about the future
      used the conditional, such as "I will to do it tomorrow," or "I may (I have
      the might or power) to do it tomorrow," etc. It would have seemed like
      inviting bad luck to make statements about the future in definite terms,
      since the fates held the secrets of the future. Now, though, shall and will
      have, at least in English and the Scandinavian languages, lost their
      conditional force and have become mere expressions of futurity, while German
      has opted for the helping verb werden 'become' to express futurity, while
      keeping shall and will firmly in the camp of modal auxiliaries which express
      conditionality. I think that the German solution is probably the most
      consistent, since even in English, when you shift from future to present or
      past, will and shall change to would/would have and should/should have,
      confusingly regaining their subjunctive character. A separate verb, such as
      German werden, or unshifted werthen (sorry, no 'thorn' character on my
      e-mail font) seems more consistent.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <folkspraak@yahoogroups.com>
      To: <folkspraak@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 11:39 AM
      Subject: [folkspraak] Digest Number 230

      Browse the draft word lists!

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      There is 1 message in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Shall vs Will
      From: William G Beazley <beazley@...>


      Message: 1
      Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:06:21 -0600
      From: William G Beazley <beazley@...>
      Subject: Shall vs Will

      Not sure if it has been covered yet.

      ik wille etten, etc. = "I shall eat"

      Causes some questions for me in the Grammar.

      This Grammar only seems to be a reflection of American English.

      In Formal English, German and Swedish I find this:

      English German Swedish
      shall soll ska
      will(desire) will vill

      So this ywis makes the above statement say, I expect, I will to eat (or
      I want to eat) not I shall eat.

      to will


      God willing

      so Gott will

      I mean to say ...

      Ich will sagen ...

      I should say so!

      Das will ich meinen!

      That's the way he wants it.

      So will er es haben.

      That's saying a lot.

      Das will viel sagen.

      What's he driving at?

      Worauf will er hinaus?

      I know my own mind.

      Ich weiß, was ich will.

      Be that as it may.

      Das mag sein, wie es will.

      I won't hear of it.

      Ich will nichts davon hören.

      I won't argue that point.

      Das will ich nicht bestreiten.

      you had better not

      das will ich Ihnen nicht raten

      No pain, no gain.

      Wer schön sein will, muss leiden.

      she wants us to meet at 8 o'clock

      sie will, dass wir uns um 8 Uhr

      to hedge

      sich winden (wenn man eine Frage
      nicht beantworten will)


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