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Re: [folkspraak] Shall vs Will

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  • Daan
    ... Shall will be used for the future tense, so it should be something like sallen - ik salle etten . Ik wille etten means I want to eat! and that s a big
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 29, 2001
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      A correction:

      > English German Dutch Swedish English cognate
      > will(future tense) soll zal ska shall
      > want(desire) will wil vill will

      Shall will be used for the future tense, so it should be something like
      sallen - "ik salle etten".

      "Ik wille etten" means "I want to eat!" and
      that's a big difference! Indeed, English is an exception here.



      > Not sure if it has been covered yet.
      >
      > ik wille etten, etc. = "I shall eat"
      >
      > Causes some questions for me in the Grammar.
      >
      > This Grammar only seems to be a reflection of American English.
      >
      > In Formal English, German and Swedish I find this:
      >
      >
      > English German Swedish
      > shall soll ska
      > will(desire) will vill
      >
      >
      > So this ywis makes the above statement say, I expect, I will to eat (or
      > I want to eat) not I shall eat.







      English:
      German:
      to will

      will

      God willing

      so Gott will

      I mean to say ...

      Ich will sagen ...

      I should say so!

      Das will ich meinen!

      That's the way he wants it.

      So will er es haben.

      That's saying a lot.

      Das will viel sagen.

      What's he driving at?

      Worauf will er hinaus?

      I know my own mind.

      Ich wei�, was ich will.

      Be that as it may.

      Das mag sein, wie es will.

      I won't hear of it.

      Ich will nichts davon h�ren.

      I won't argue that point.

      Das will ich nicht bestreiten.

      you had better not

      das will ich Ihnen nicht raten

      No pain, no gain.

      Wer sch�n sein will, muss leiden.

      she wants us to meet at 8 o'clock

      sie will, dass wir uns um 8 Uhr
      treffen

      to hedge

      sich winden (wenn man eine Frage
      nicht beantworten will)


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    • Daan
      ... I see your point... however... They will not be confused! I speak Dutch, which uses -en both for infinitives and plurals; and they are not confused, thanks
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 30, 2001
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        > Hey, I just realised (i'm hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if plurals
        > are changed to end "-en", then won't they get confused with infinitive verb
        > endings!?

        I see your point... however...

        They will not be confused!

        I speak Dutch, which uses -en both for infinitives and plurals; and they are
        not confused, thanks to two simple systems: the article and capitalisation.

        English Dutch Folkspraak
        the fish de vis det Fisk
        the fishes de vissen die Fisken
        to fish vissen fisken

        so "die Fisken" is a noun, "fisken" is a verb.
      • Daan
        One little note: what about stems ending in -e (or another vowel)? go gaa to go gaaen? gaan? gaen? bag taske bags taskeen? tasken? Actually, I go for gaan
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 30, 2001
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          One little note:

          what about stems ending in -e (or another vowel)?

          go gaa
          to go gaaen? gaan? gaen?

          bag taske
          bags taskeen? tasken?

          Actually, I go for gaan and tasken, but probably not-Dutch speakers would prefer another variant...
        • Xipirho
          Hey, I just realised (i m hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if plurals are changed to end -en , then won t they get confused with infinitive verb
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 1 4:12 PM
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            Hey, I just realised (i'm hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if plurals
            are changed to end "-en", then won't they get confused with infinitive verb
            endings!?


            Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo. Roly/Orly/Vinyacálë.
          • Jan-Willem Benjamins
            That risk exists. However, both dutch and german do things that way ,and from a life-long experience in dutch, I can say that it rarely leads to problems. But
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 2 1:27 AM
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              That risk exists.
              However, both dutch and german do things that way ,and from a life-long
              experience in dutch, I can say that it rarely leads to problems.
              But maybe, to avoid all complications, we should make plurals with -s.

              adjys

              Jan-Willem

              --- Xipirho <xipirho@...> skrev: > Hey, I just realised (i'm
              hardly a full-time folkspraaker!) that if
              > plurals
              > are changed to end "-en", then won't they get confused with
              > infinitive verb
              > endings!?
              >
              >
              > Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo. Roly/Orly/Vinyacálë.
              >


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            • Christopher Burd
              ... I agree the FS modal auxiliaries should maintain a distinction between desire and simple futurity. German soll(en) means should rather than shall in
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 12 9:50 AM
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                At 04:39 PM 01 03 02 -0000, you wrote:
                > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 23:06:21 -0600
                > From: William G Beazley <beazley@...>
                >Subject: Shall vs Will
                >
                >Not sure if it has been covered yet.
                >
                >ik wille etten, etc. = "I shall eat"
                >
                >Causes some questions for me in the Grammar.
                >
                >This Grammar only seems to be a reflection of American English.
                >
                >In Formal English, German and Swedish I find this:
                >
                >
                >English German Swedish
                >shall soll ska
                >will(desire) will vill

                I agree the FS modal auxiliaries should maintain a distinction between
                desire and simple futurity. German "soll(en)" means 'should' rather than
                'shall' in the sense of futurity (in formal British English, obviously,
                "shall" can have sense of N. American "should").

                German expresses futurity through _werden_ ('to become') + the infinitive:
                "Ich werde im Fernosten reisen." 'I shall travel in the Far East.'

                Chris
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