Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [folkspraak] Update on Wikibook

Expand Messages
  • Roly Sookias
    Sure, although your non-diacritical FS is pretty like it and I don t really have a proper definite BS - it s just some ideas really, not a definite version or
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 27, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Sure, although your non-diacritical FS is pretty like it and I don't really have a proper definite BS - it's just some ideas really, not a definite version or anything (and the conventions I use I keep changing all the time). I'll do a version standardised on my current grammar, and a version trying to incorporate everyone's grammar, as it were! I'll also write it how I'm tending to write my FS at the mo:



      Version 1: Al majnisks aar born fri end geliik mid werth end rehts. Thai aar begebthed mid fersta end gewiting, end skal leb ain mid the anther in ain gaist ab brootherlikhaid. / Al maïnisks ár born fri end gelík mid werþ end rehts. Þai ár begebþed mid fersta end gewiting, end skal leb ain mid þe anþer in en gaist ab bróþerlikhaid.



      Version 2: Al majn|isk|as wees|en ber|et fraei und ge|liik mid werth und reht|as. Thai wees|en be|geb|th|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und skal leb ain mid the anther in ain gaist ab broother|lik|haid. / Al maïn|isk|as wés|en ber|et fri und ge|lík mid werþ und reht|as. Þai wés|en be|geb|þ|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und skal leb ain mid þe anþer in ain gaist ab bróþer|lik|haid.



      Version 3 (My FS): All mannishen ar born frai end gelaik mid werd end rehts. Dé ar begivted mid fersta end gewitting, end shall liv én mid de ander in en gest av bruderlighed.



      NOTA BENE: I’ve used <j> in the ASCII versions and <ï> in the diacritical versions to indictate i-mutation (i.e. umlauting). This would yield <óï> in <gróïn>, <uï> in <hruïg> etc. Alternatively <æ>, <y>, <ø> could be used, with accutes to show length, but my fear is the <æ> would clash with true PG /æ/. BTW, did PG have short /æ/? …I use accute accents as one can have an accute on an æ (ǽ), but if there was no short version it wouldn’t be needed, so circumflexes could be used, although only if the <ï> for i-mutation convention were used I guess (as there’s no <ø> with circumflex, although I’m not sure if short i-mutated /o/ really exists much historically does it?). I use thorn as I think it’s more neutral then choosing either <đ> or <ŧ>, and more historically Germanic of course (although that has no relevence!), and I don’t really want two ways of writing one PG phoneme, especially as /T/’s modern voicing seems predictable based on postion (apart from in the “little words” þu, þe, þat, þis, þai etc., and these can be listed pretty easily. I’d happily change to <ŧ> and <đ> though if you guys prefer.





      -----Original Message-----
      From: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:folkspraak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stefichjo
      Sent: 27 February 2006 17:26
      To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [folkspraak] Update on Wikibook



      Hello,



      I have updated the Wikibook. Most important changes are in the grammar

      chapter and in the example chapter.



      http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak

      http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Referenzgrammatik

      http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Beispiele



      Maybe I should add to the example chapter a non-diacritical

      transcription of each Folksprâk text. Like...



      Aal maennisken werdh geboren frii and geliik medh werdh and rehhten.

      Dhe er begebthet medh ferstath and gewaiting, and soll liibe aine midh

      dhe andere in en gaist faan broodherlikhaid.



      Roly, could you write the BaseSpraak version of it, please?



      Regards,

      Stephan Schneider











      Browse the draft word lists!

      http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/

      http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html



      Browse Folkspraak-related links!

      http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/



      Yahoo! Groups Links



      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/



      folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/











      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • stefichjo
      ... really have a proper definite BS - it s just some ideas really, not a definite version or anything (and the conventions I use I keep changing all the
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 1 6:50 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias" <xipirho@...> wrote:
        >
        > Sure, although your non-diacritical FS is pretty like it and I don't
        really have a proper definite BS - it's just some ideas really, not a
        definite version or anything (and the conventions I use I keep
        changing all the time). I'll do a version standardised on my current
        grammar, and a version trying to incorporate everyone's grammar, as it
        were! I'll also write it how I'm tending to write my FS at the mo:
        >
        >
        >
        > Version 1: Al majnisks aar born fri end geliik mid werth end rehts.
        Thai aar begebthed mid fersta end gewiting, end skal leb ain mid the
        anther in ain gaist ab brootherlikhaid. / Al maïnisks ár born fri end
        gelík mid werþ end rehts. Þai ár begebþed mid fersta end gewiting, end
        skal leb ain mid þe anþer in en gaist ab bróþerlikhaid.
        >
        >
        >
        > Version 2: Al majn|isk|as wees|en ber|et fraei und ge|liik mid werth
        und reht|as. Thai wees|en be|geb|th|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und
        skal leb ain mid the anther in ain gaist ab broother|lik|haid. / Al
        maïn|isk|as wés|en ber|et fri und ge|lík mid werþ und reht|as. Þai
        wés|en be|geb|þ|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und skal leb ain mid þe
        anþer in ain gaist ab bróþer|lik|haid.
        >
        >
        >
        > Version 3 (My FS): All mannishen ar born frai end gelaik mid werd
        end rehts. Dé ar begivted mid fersta end gewitting, end shall liv én
        mid de ander in en gest av bruderlighed.
        >
        >
        >
        > NOTA BENE: I’ve used <j> in the ASCII versions and <ï> in the
        diacritical versions to indictate i-mutation (i.e. umlauting). This
        would yield <óï> in <gróïn>, <uï> in <hruïg> etc. Alternatively <æ>,
        <y>, <ø> could be used, with accutes to show length, but my fear is
        the <æ> would clash with true PG /æ/. BTW, did PG have short /æ/? …I
        use accute accents as one can have an accute on an æ (ǽ), but if there
        was no short version it wouldn’t be needed, so circumflexes could be
        used, although only if the <ï> for i-mutation convention were used I
        guess (as there’s no <ø> with circumflex, although I’m not sure if
        short i-mutated /o/ really exists much historically does it?). I use
        thorn as I think it’s more neutral then choosing either <Ä`> or <ŧ>,
        and more historically Germanic of course (although that has no
        relevence!), and I don’t really want two ways of writing one PG
        phoneme, especially as /T/’s modern voicing seems predictable based on
        postion (apart from in the “little words” þu, þe, þat, þis, þai etc.,
        and these can be listed pretty easily. I’d happily change to <ŧ> and
        <Ä`> though if you guys prefer.


        Cool, cool... thank you so far. So let's try to define some BS?

        j - umlauting/i-mutation (grojn)

        I have three distinctions in Folksprak at the moment:
        - Protogermanic non-umlaut is umlaut in modern Germlangs (grøn)
        - Protogermanic umlaut is non-umlaut in modern Germlangs (stræt)
        - Protogermanic non-umlaut is non-umlaut in modern Germlangs, but due
        to suffixing i-like suffixes it is umlautet: mænnisk (from mann)

        The first I represent with "o" + double acute.
        The second I represent with "æ".
        The third I represent with "a" Tilde (~).

        I reserve the Trema and the i-dot for expressing "e" and "i" in
        ablauting of strong verbs like "lig lag legen", having "a-i-dot" and
        "a-trema" in "lig" respectively "legen". (So also "ï" would mean "e"
        in this logic...)

        I also reserve an i-dot _below_ the vowel meaning one of the
        protogermanic diphtongs "ai", "ei" and "eu" ("eu" as if "oi").

        But let's try something more neutral (hopefully).

        Hm... what about (assuming that PG *a is never umlautet like PG *o and
        *u):
        PG *ai, *ei, *eu, *au >> ai, ei, eu, au
        PG *o, *u >> oi, ui (when applies)
        Grammatical umlauting: ae, oe, ue
        PG *æ >> æ

        In addition we have PG *u turning to "o" (*dur >> dor (EN door)).
        PG *u >> uo

        It would also be interesting to write if a vowel is diphtongised or
        "monophtongised" (probably used only in order to write Germlang words
        in BS, I'd use "j" and "w" here in order to maintain a distinction
        from PG diphtongs):
        PG *a >> aa "O" <-> ao
        PG *e >> ee "i" <-> ej
        PG *i >> ii ?y? <-> aj
        PG *o >> oo "u" <-> ow
        PG *u >> uu "a" <-> aw

        (I don't know about PG vowel length very much, sorry. (I'm not sure if
        I'm reading it well.))

        I read you wouldn't like to have two ways of writing one PG phoneme,
        but that's what I'm already doing making a distinction between
        PG *u >> ui/uo (and aw)

        So why not make a distinction between
        PG *th >> th/dh
        Don't you agree? The prediction is easy only after having studied it
        for a while (I remember).

        Hm, what is hrujg?


        Is anything missing?

        Regards,
        Stephan Schneider



        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:folkspraak@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of stefichjo
        > Sent: 27 February 2006 17:26
        > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [folkspraak] Update on Wikibook
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        >
        >
        > I have updated the Wikibook. Most important changes are in the grammar
        >
        > chapter and in the example chapter.
        >
        >
        >
        > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak
        >
        > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Referenzgrammatik
        >
        > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Beispiele
        >
        >
        >
        > Maybe I should add to the example chapter a non-diacritical
        >
        > transcription of each Folksprâk text. Like...
        >
        >
        >
        > Aal maennisken werdh geboren frii and geliik medh werdh and rehhten.
        >
        > Dhe er begebthet medh ferstath and gewaiting, and soll liibe aine midh
        >
        > dhe andere in en gaist faan broodherlikhaid.
        >
        >
        >
        > Roly, could you write the BaseSpraak version of it, please?
        >
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Stephan Schneider
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Browse the draft word lists!
        >
        > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        >
        > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
        >
        >
        >
        > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        >
        > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
        >
        >
        >
        > folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.