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Update on Wikibook

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  • stefichjo
    Hello, I have updated the Wikibook. Most important changes are in the grammar chapter and in the example chapter. http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 27, 2006
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      Hello,

      I have updated the Wikibook. Most important changes are in the grammar
      chapter and in the example chapter.

      http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak
      http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Referenzgrammatik
      http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Beispiele

      Maybe I should add to the example chapter a non-diacritical
      transcription of each Folksprâk text. Like...

      Aal maennisken werdh geboren frii and geliik medh werdh and rehhten.
      Dhe er begebthet medh ferstath and gewaiting, and soll liibe aine midh
      dhe andere in en gaist faan broodherlikhaid.

      Roly, could you write the BaseSpraak version of it, please?

      Regards,
      Stephan Schneider
    • Roly Sookias
      Sure, although your non-diacritical FS is pretty like it and I don t really have a proper definite BS - it s just some ideas really, not a definite version or
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 27, 2006
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        Sure, although your non-diacritical FS is pretty like it and I don't really have a proper definite BS - it's just some ideas really, not a definite version or anything (and the conventions I use I keep changing all the time). I'll do a version standardised on my current grammar, and a version trying to incorporate everyone's grammar, as it were! I'll also write it how I'm tending to write my FS at the mo:



        Version 1: Al majnisks aar born fri end geliik mid werth end rehts. Thai aar begebthed mid fersta end gewiting, end skal leb ain mid the anther in ain gaist ab brootherlikhaid. / Al maïnisks ár born fri end gelík mid werþ end rehts. Þai ár begebþed mid fersta end gewiting, end skal leb ain mid þe anþer in en gaist ab bróþerlikhaid.



        Version 2: Al majn|isk|as wees|en ber|et fraei und ge|liik mid werth und reht|as. Thai wees|en be|geb|th|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und skal leb ain mid the anther in ain gaist ab broother|lik|haid. / Al maïn|isk|as wés|en ber|et fri und ge|lík mid werþ und reht|as. Þai wés|en be|geb|þ|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und skal leb ain mid þe anþer in ain gaist ab bróþer|lik|haid.



        Version 3 (My FS): All mannishen ar born frai end gelaik mid werd end rehts. Dé ar begivted mid fersta end gewitting, end shall liv én mid de ander in en gest av bruderlighed.



        NOTA BENE: I’ve used <j> in the ASCII versions and <ï> in the diacritical versions to indictate i-mutation (i.e. umlauting). This would yield <óï> in <gróïn>, <uï> in <hruïg> etc. Alternatively <æ>, <y>, <ø> could be used, with accutes to show length, but my fear is the <æ> would clash with true PG /æ/. BTW, did PG have short /æ/? …I use accute accents as one can have an accute on an æ (ǽ), but if there was no short version it wouldn’t be needed, so circumflexes could be used, although only if the <ï> for i-mutation convention were used I guess (as there’s no <ø> with circumflex, although I’m not sure if short i-mutated /o/ really exists much historically does it?). I use thorn as I think it’s more neutral then choosing either <đ> or <ŧ>, and more historically Germanic of course (although that has no relevence!), and I don’t really want two ways of writing one PG phoneme, especially as /T/’s modern voicing seems predictable based on postion (apart from in the “little words” þu, þe, þat, þis, þai etc., and these can be listed pretty easily. I’d happily change to <ŧ> and <đ> though if you guys prefer.





        -----Original Message-----
        From: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:folkspraak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stefichjo
        Sent: 27 February 2006 17:26
        To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [folkspraak] Update on Wikibook



        Hello,



        I have updated the Wikibook. Most important changes are in the grammar

        chapter and in the example chapter.



        http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak

        http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Referenzgrammatik

        http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Beispiele



        Maybe I should add to the example chapter a non-diacritical

        transcription of each Folksprâk text. Like...



        Aal maennisken werdh geboren frii and geliik medh werdh and rehhten.

        Dhe er begebthet medh ferstath and gewaiting, and soll liibe aine midh

        dhe andere in en gaist faan broodherlikhaid.



        Roly, could you write the BaseSpraak version of it, please?



        Regards,

        Stephan Schneider











        Browse the draft word lists!

        http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/

        http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html



        Browse Folkspraak-related links!

        http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/



        Yahoo! Groups Links



        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/



        folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • stefichjo
        ... really have a proper definite BS - it s just some ideas really, not a definite version or anything (and the conventions I use I keep changing all the
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 1, 2006
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          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Roly Sookias" <xipirho@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sure, although your non-diacritical FS is pretty like it and I don't
          really have a proper definite BS - it's just some ideas really, not a
          definite version or anything (and the conventions I use I keep
          changing all the time). I'll do a version standardised on my current
          grammar, and a version trying to incorporate everyone's grammar, as it
          were! I'll also write it how I'm tending to write my FS at the mo:
          >
          >
          >
          > Version 1: Al majnisks aar born fri end geliik mid werth end rehts.
          Thai aar begebthed mid fersta end gewiting, end skal leb ain mid the
          anther in ain gaist ab brootherlikhaid. / Al maïnisks ár born fri end
          gelík mid werþ end rehts. Þai ár begebþed mid fersta end gewiting, end
          skal leb ain mid þe anþer in en gaist ab bróþerlikhaid.
          >
          >
          >
          > Version 2: Al majn|isk|as wees|en ber|et fraei und ge|liik mid werth
          und reht|as. Thai wees|en be|geb|th|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und
          skal leb ain mid the anther in ain gaist ab broother|lik|haid. / Al
          maïn|isk|as wés|en ber|et fri und ge|lík mid werþ und reht|as. Þai
          wés|en be|geb|þ|et mid for|sta und ge|witing, und skal leb ain mid þe
          anþer in ain gaist ab bróþer|lik|haid.
          >
          >
          >
          > Version 3 (My FS): All mannishen ar born frai end gelaik mid werd
          end rehts. Dé ar begivted mid fersta end gewitting, end shall liv én
          mid de ander in en gest av bruderlighed.
          >
          >
          >
          > NOTA BENE: I’ve used <j> in the ASCII versions and <ï> in the
          diacritical versions to indictate i-mutation (i.e. umlauting). This
          would yield <óï> in <gróïn>, <uï> in <hruïg> etc. Alternatively <æ>,
          <y>, <ø> could be used, with accutes to show length, but my fear is
          the <æ> would clash with true PG /æ/. BTW, did PG have short /æ/? …I
          use accute accents as one can have an accute on an æ (ǽ), but if there
          was no short version it wouldn’t be needed, so circumflexes could be
          used, although only if the <ï> for i-mutation convention were used I
          guess (as there’s no <ø> with circumflex, although I’m not sure if
          short i-mutated /o/ really exists much historically does it?). I use
          thorn as I think it’s more neutral then choosing either <Ä`> or <ŧ>,
          and more historically Germanic of course (although that has no
          relevence!), and I don’t really want two ways of writing one PG
          phoneme, especially as /T/’s modern voicing seems predictable based on
          postion (apart from in the “little words” þu, þe, þat, þis, þai etc.,
          and these can be listed pretty easily. I’d happily change to <ŧ> and
          <Ä`> though if you guys prefer.


          Cool, cool... thank you so far. So let's try to define some BS?

          j - umlauting/i-mutation (grojn)

          I have three distinctions in Folksprak at the moment:
          - Protogermanic non-umlaut is umlaut in modern Germlangs (grøn)
          - Protogermanic umlaut is non-umlaut in modern Germlangs (stræt)
          - Protogermanic non-umlaut is non-umlaut in modern Germlangs, but due
          to suffixing i-like suffixes it is umlautet: mænnisk (from mann)

          The first I represent with "o" + double acute.
          The second I represent with "æ".
          The third I represent with "a" Tilde (~).

          I reserve the Trema and the i-dot for expressing "e" and "i" in
          ablauting of strong verbs like "lig lag legen", having "a-i-dot" and
          "a-trema" in "lig" respectively "legen". (So also "ï" would mean "e"
          in this logic...)

          I also reserve an i-dot _below_ the vowel meaning one of the
          protogermanic diphtongs "ai", "ei" and "eu" ("eu" as if "oi").

          But let's try something more neutral (hopefully).

          Hm... what about (assuming that PG *a is never umlautet like PG *o and
          *u):
          PG *ai, *ei, *eu, *au >> ai, ei, eu, au
          PG *o, *u >> oi, ui (when applies)
          Grammatical umlauting: ae, oe, ue
          PG *æ >> æ

          In addition we have PG *u turning to "o" (*dur >> dor (EN door)).
          PG *u >> uo

          It would also be interesting to write if a vowel is diphtongised or
          "monophtongised" (probably used only in order to write Germlang words
          in BS, I'd use "j" and "w" here in order to maintain a distinction
          from PG diphtongs):
          PG *a >> aa "O" <-> ao
          PG *e >> ee "i" <-> ej
          PG *i >> ii ?y? <-> aj
          PG *o >> oo "u" <-> ow
          PG *u >> uu "a" <-> aw

          (I don't know about PG vowel length very much, sorry. (I'm not sure if
          I'm reading it well.))

          I read you wouldn't like to have two ways of writing one PG phoneme,
          but that's what I'm already doing making a distinction between
          PG *u >> ui/uo (and aw)

          So why not make a distinction between
          PG *th >> th/dh
          Don't you agree? The prediction is easy only after having studied it
          for a while (I remember).

          Hm, what is hrujg?


          Is anything missing?

          Regards,
          Stephan Schneider



          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:folkspraak@yahoogroups.com]
          On Behalf Of stefichjo
          > Sent: 27 February 2006 17:26
          > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [folkspraak] Update on Wikibook
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          >
          >
          > I have updated the Wikibook. Most important changes are in the grammar
          >
          > chapter and in the example chapter.
          >
          >
          >
          > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak
          >
          > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Referenzgrammatik
          >
          > http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Folksprak_-_Beispiele
          >
          >
          >
          > Maybe I should add to the example chapter a non-diacritical
          >
          > transcription of each Folksprâk text. Like...
          >
          >
          >
          > Aal maennisken werdh geboren frii and geliik medh werdh and rehhten.
          >
          > Dhe er begebthet medh ferstath and gewaiting, and soll liibe aine midh
          >
          > dhe andere in en gaist faan broodherlikhaid.
          >
          >
          >
          > Roly, could you write the BaseSpraak version of it, please?
          >
          >
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Stephan Schneider
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Browse the draft word lists!
          >
          > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          >
          > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          >
          >
          >
          > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          >
          > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
          >
          >
          >
          > folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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