Re: [folkspraak] Re: Yiddish is Germanic
- Yes, honestly if it weren't for the education portion I got from ever
asking the question (about Yiddish), I would completely wish I had never
asked the question because it has become to distracting.
But, some of these discussions remind of why I still read all these
emails, because this is cool.
From all of this I have gone to read a lot, ok some.. Old Ænglish
Stuff. Learned about the IPA characters.
Learned about the History of York and how many Viking words crept their
way into English.
How many Dutch words are in English, how the Miriam Webster Dictionary
is mostly junk when it comes to etymology.
Learned that people might be kidding themselves on the origins of such
words as Island. By some it understood that the word island comes from
the Old Ænglish word igland respelled to match the non english word
isle. But it could just as likely come from Island which is Iceland.
In fact Island is mentioned in the Canterbury tales (or so I have read).
That the Ængles are/were the followers of Ing, Friesians were the
Followers of Frey and so on, I am not clear however did they name
themselves this way or did the Romans name them, Angles were not named
because their fair haired children looked like Angles thetas mythology.
Its kinda like: "the Indian word for corn is maize". no thats the
Spanish word for corn.
I have learned a lot about the appearance of letters from the English
ð, þ, Æ, "long or leading s" the Wynn and the Yogh, there may be still
http://www.evertype.com/standards/wynnyogh/thorn.html this is an
alright page describing the commonality, but I had at one time found a
much better describing essentially how the scripts mentioned here all
have the same origin.
The Germanic peoples stem from the Celts.
How the Svear(Swedes) and the Gots (Gotland, Gothia, Gutar, Goths,
Geats, Sothern Sweden) were enemies, this is actually mentioned in
I have even read some Bill Bryson stuff which is a hoot!
Summary, I think this is a lot of fun.
> I have been here pretty much from the start. No noone could agree on--
> what the source languages would be. Almost everyone is using German,
> English, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. Some of us add other
> languages to that list. Some of us count the scandinavians as one,
> others find that highly annoying.
> This whole thing was one of the arguments that almost made us crash and
> burn. :(
> It *has not stopped us* from making a good start anyways. Take heart
> folks! The anarchistic approach works.
> If you start with three germanic source-words or eighteen germanic
> source-words the folkspraak word that comes thereof will be germanic in
> any case. :)
> If you don't like a folkspraak word then re-make it, and then *use* it.
> Nobody has to have *permission* to do anything. Likewise if you see
> something that needs to be done do it.
> We have come along way from the original folkspraak using this approach.
> We can do it!
> -Duke (Putting down his pom-poms until the next time)
> Browse the draft word lists!
> Browse Folkspraak-related links!
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Systems Administrator Equator Technologies
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- Well, a major cause of the change from Middle to Modern, was not
natural, but deliberate manipulation by those who created the first
dictionaries. Namely persons who spoke a number of French and Latin,
and could not face that English was replacing their sacred French and
Latin, so they went about "beautifying" English, by adding new worlds
that often already had an English word, but it fit the French/Latin
ideal. They did much the same as what they did with High German. But
not as extensive..
- Norman French:
French is basically the left over lingo of Gualish persons who were
forced thru various means to accept Latin, then over time other
influnces came in. And then when the Franks came, they took over as
the upper class, but quickly lost out to the natives lingo, but some
things did come thru, some Germanic elements came thru, but very
little. Then the Normans came, adopted the local French which likely
had some Celtic elements (Britanny and all), as well as some German
elements already (Saxon shores is to the NE of Normandy after all).
They like any nation that adopts another lingo, they keep some forms
of speech, but the major part of their lingo becomes the other, in
this case French. Later they went to England and took over. Over time
their lingo changed to more Germanic forms. But it also went the other
way as well.. After all, the lingo of the rulers is often good to
know, it can get you good jobs and like.. Also change to bed down with
the lord or like, and get your position in life, up. Much the same as
previous Frank and like contact.
- One nice thing about non-Germanic lingos that have had some influences
on a Germanic lingo. You can look at one, and then another, and then
another and you can see what words were adopted by the Germanic
lingos, or the reverse..
Sort of like comparing Gothic, Low German, English, and Norwegian, you
can see what words have been adopted from outside, or atleast have
mutated in each. But you can also look at the lingos near by and see
where the Germanic lingo went, traveled, and who had contact with
them. As well as see where a word did come from.
- From what I understand, genetically the Scots are almost identical to
the English. Other than maybe those of the Isles. Which is interesting
due to the major influences of the Norse on the Isles and the
Orkney/Shetland/Faroe Islands seem to have some definite Germanic
influences. To have spoken a Norse or like lingo until recent times,
- Well, one of the possible ideas of the Turkish, is that many Ladino
Jews moved to the Ottoman Empire after being forced out by the "most
christian monarchs" Isabell and Ferdinand (where do you think they got
the collateral for the Columbus Voyages, even hear claims that many/a
few of Columbuses crew was recently converted Muslims and Jews).
True, the Khazar accepted Judiasm sometime around 1400 (not sure on
dates). And yes, this could explain the genetic lineage of many Jews
is Europe, especially when they don't seem to be much like the local
Jews of Palestine, but without hard evidence, not sure. It would be
interesting to get access to much of the genetic data that Israel may
Shoot, for all we know Yaser Arafat had a great grandparent who was
Basically without evidence like genetics and like, language evidence
is not that concrete.
- Much of the info/comments on the supposed origin of the Germanic
lingos from Celtic forms, was due to a mixing of some Germanic and
Celtic tribal groups.. Some tribes named in history were never clearly
defined as either group..
Celtic is often closer in form of Latin than any others. And then
Greek. but alot of this "closeness" maybe due to a long time
association of the Celtic lingos known, with local Latin and Greek and