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Re: [folkspraak] Re: Yiddish is Germanic

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  • William G Beazley
    Yes, honestly if it weren t for the education portion I got from ever asking the question (about Yiddish), I would completely wish I had never asked the
    Message 1 of 23 , Dec 13, 2001
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      Yes, honestly if it weren't for the education portion I got from ever
      asking the question (about Yiddish), I would completely wish I had never
      asked the question because it has become to distracting.

      But, some of these discussions remind of why I still read all these
      emails, because this is cool.

      From all of this I have gone to read a lot, ok some.. Old Ænglish
      Stuff. Learned about the IPA characters.

      Learned about the History of York and how many Viking words crept their
      way into English.

      How many Dutch words are in English, how the Miriam Webster Dictionary
      is mostly junk when it comes to etymology.

      Learned that people might be kidding themselves on the origins of such
      words as Island. By some it understood that the word island comes from
      the Old Ænglish word igland respelled to match the non english word
      isle. But it could just as likely come from Island which is Iceland.
      In fact Island is mentioned in the Canterbury tales (or so I have read).

      That the Ængles are/were the followers of Ing, Friesians were the
      Followers of Frey and so on, I am not clear however did they name
      themselves this way or did the Romans name them, Angles were not named
      because their fair haired children looked like Angles thetas mythology.
      Its kinda like: "the Indian word for corn is maize". no thats the
      Spanish word for corn.

      I have learned a lot about the appearance of letters from the English
      character set.

      ð, þ, Æ, "long or leading s" the Wynn and the Yogh, there may be still
      more yet.

      http://www.evertype.com/standards/wynnyogh/thorn.html this is an
      alright page describing the commonality, but I had at one time found a
      much better describing essentially how the scripts mentioned here all
      have the same origin.

      The Germanic peoples stem from the Celts.

      How the Svear(Swedes) and the Gots (Gotland, Gothia, Gutar, Goths,
      Geats, Sothern Sweden) were enemies, this is actually mentioned in
      Beowulf.

      I have even read some Bill Bryson stuff which is a hoot!

      Summary, I think this is a lot of fun.



      > I have been here pretty much from the start. No noone could agree on
      > what the source languages would be. Almost everyone is using German,
      > English, Dutch, Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. Some of us add other
      > languages to that list. Some of us count the scandinavians as one,
      > others find that highly annoying.
      >
      > This whole thing was one of the arguments that almost made us crash and
      > burn. :(
      >
      > It *has not stopped us* from making a good start anyways. Take heart
      > folks! The anarchistic approach works.
      >
      > If you start with three germanic source-words or eighteen germanic
      > source-words the folkspraak word that comes thereof will be germanic in
      > any case. :)
      >
      > If you don't like a folkspraak word then re-make it, and then *use* it.
      > Nobody has to have *permission* to do anything. Likewise if you see
      > something that needs to be done do it.
      >
      > We have come along way from the original folkspraak using this approach.
      > We can do it!
      >
      > -Duke (Putting down his pom-poms until the next time)
      >
      >
      > Browse the draft word lists!
      > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
      > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
      >
      > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
      > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

      --
      Will Beazley
      Systems Administrator Equator Technologies
      FON: 512.502.2003 |EML: mailto:beazley@...
      FAX: 512.231.8108 |PAG: 888.213.7053
    • abrigon
      Well, a major cause of the change from Middle to Modern, was not natural, but deliberate manipulation by those who created the first dictionaries. Namely
      Message 2 of 23 , Jan 18, 2002
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        Well, a major cause of the change from Middle to Modern, was not
        natural, but deliberate manipulation by those who created the first
        dictionaries. Namely persons who spoke a number of French and Latin,
        and could not face that English was replacing their sacred French and
        Latin, so they went about "beautifying" English, by adding new worlds
        that often already had an English word, but it fit the French/Latin
        ideal. They did much the same as what they did with High German. But
        not as extensive..

        Mike
      • abrigon
        Norman French: French is basically the left over lingo of Gualish persons who were forced thru various means to accept Latin, then over time other influnces
        Message 3 of 23 , Jan 18, 2002
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          Norman French:

          French is basically the left over lingo of Gualish persons who were
          forced thru various means to accept Latin, then over time other
          influnces came in. And then when the Franks came, they took over as
          the upper class, but quickly lost out to the natives lingo, but some
          things did come thru, some Germanic elements came thru, but very
          little. Then the Normans came, adopted the local French which likely
          had some Celtic elements (Britanny and all), as well as some German
          elements already (Saxon shores is to the NE of Normandy after all).
          They like any nation that adopts another lingo, they keep some forms
          of speech, but the major part of their lingo becomes the other, in
          this case French. Later they went to England and took over. Over time
          their lingo changed to more Germanic forms. But it also went the other
          way as well.. After all, the lingo of the rulers is often good to
          know, it can get you good jobs and like.. Also change to bed down with
          the lord or like, and get your position in life, up. Much the same as
          previous Frank and like contact.

          Mike
        • abrigon
          One nice thing about non-Germanic lingos that have had some influences on a Germanic lingo. You can look at one, and then another, and then another and you can
          Message 4 of 23 , Jan 18, 2002
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            One nice thing about non-Germanic lingos that have had some influences
            on a Germanic lingo. You can look at one, and then another, and then
            another and you can see what words were adopted by the Germanic
            lingos, or the reverse..

            Sort of like comparing Gothic, Low German, English, and Norwegian, you
            can see what words have been adopted from outside, or atleast have
            mutated in each. But you can also look at the lingos near by and see
            where the Germanic lingo went, traveled, and who had contact with
            them. As well as see where a word did come from.

            Mike
          • abrigon
            From what I understand, genetically the Scots are almost identical to the English. Other than maybe those of the Isles. Which is interesting due to the major
            Message 5 of 23 , Jan 18, 2002
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              From what I understand, genetically the Scots are almost identical to
              the English. Other than maybe those of the Isles. Which is interesting
              due to the major influences of the Norse on the Isles and the
              mainland.

              Orkney/Shetland/Faroe Islands seem to have some definite Germanic
              influences. To have spoken a Norse or like lingo until recent times,
              or still..

              Mike
            • abrigon
              Well, one of the possible ideas of the Turkish, is that many Ladino Jews moved to the Ottoman Empire after being forced out by the most christian monarchs
              Message 6 of 23 , Jan 19, 2002
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                Well, one of the possible ideas of the Turkish, is that many Ladino
                Jews moved to the Ottoman Empire after being forced out by the "most
                christian monarchs" Isabell and Ferdinand (where do you think they got
                the collateral for the Columbus Voyages, even hear claims that many/a
                few of Columbuses crew was recently converted Muslims and Jews).

                True, the Khazar accepted Judiasm sometime around 1400 (not sure on
                dates). And yes, this could explain the genetic lineage of many Jews
                is Europe, especially when they don't seem to be much like the local
                Jews of Palestine, but without hard evidence, not sure. It would be
                interesting to get access to much of the genetic data that Israel may
                have..

                Shoot, for all we know Yaser Arafat had a great grandparent who was
                Jewish.

                Basically without evidence like genetics and like, language evidence
                is not that concrete.

                Mike
              • abrigon
                Much of the info/comments on the supposed origin of the Germanic lingos from Celtic forms, was due to a mixing of some Germanic and Celtic tribal groups.. Some
                Message 7 of 23 , Jan 19, 2002
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                  Much of the info/comments on the supposed origin of the Germanic
                  lingos from Celtic forms, was due to a mixing of some Germanic and
                  Celtic tribal groups.. Some tribes named in history were never clearly
                  defined as either group..

                  Celtic is often closer in form of Latin than any others. And then
                  Greek. but alot of this "closeness" maybe due to a long time
                  association of the Celtic lingos known, with local Latin and Greek and
                  related lingos.

                  Mike
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