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Re: o versus u, et alia

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  • wakuran_wakaran
    ... it s ... confusion Probably... ... article in ... [@n]. ... mark ... Or maybe we could indicate the numerus with the word stuck , such as Ic háv ên
    Message 1 of 57 , Nov 1, 2005
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      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@x...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > I remember, I was talking about how to distinguish in
      > > > Folksprak "they" <-> "the" and "one" <-> "a". Unless no problem
      > > > occurs I'll just try "de" and "en" indifferently.
      > > >
      > >
      > > I think dhei for they would be appropriate, dhei, dhe(i)m, dhe(i)r...
      > >
      > Dutch and German have the very similar "zij" and "sie" for the 3rd
      > person plural pronoun, as opposed to English and Scandy they/de. So
      it's
      > evenly split, but I think we should go with the English side in this
      > case. For one thing because English is the biggest Germlang and I
      > personally always choose the English side when faced with a tie. And
      > secondly because the alternative would mean the words for "they" and
      > "she" will most likely be the same -- which might lead to some
      confusion

      Probably...

      > (I know Dutch and German speakers don't normally get confused in this
      > way, but their languages have other grammatical features that prevent
      > such confusion (such as declensions of verbs and adjectives). FS will
      > probably lack such complex grammatical checksums)
      >
      > English "they" and Scandy "de" are from PG *thai. So the pronoun should
      > be whatever we use to represent voiced *th followed by whatever *ai
      > becomes commonly in FS.
      > In my dialect, *ai is normally becomes "ê", pronounced [eI] or [e:]. So
      > the FS pronoun should be something like Ä`ê/Ä`êm/Ä`êr, distinct from the
      > definite article because the vowel is somehow marked as long or a
      > dipthong. So it would be "Ä`ê" versus "de".
      >
      > For the words for a/an versus one (1): Perhaps the indefinite
      article in
      > FS should be always unstressed. So it would normally be prono'd as
      [@n].
      > Then there can be a written difference between the numeral 1 and the
      > indefinite article of "ên" vs "en". In dutch, they normally have to
      mark
      > the numeral 1 as "één" to make it different from the indefinite article
      > "een". So this would be a similar distinction.
      >
      > Therefore
      > Ik hav en auto [Ik ha:v @n "aUto] = I have a car.(said in answer to a
      > question such as "Wârfor môte ji kÅ"pe benzin?")
      > Ik hav ên auto [Ik ha:v eIn "aUto] = I have one car. (said in answer to
      > a question such as "Hô manig autos besitte ji?")
      >


      Or maybe we could indicate the numerus with the word "stuck", such as
      "Ic háv ên stuck auto", if that information would be explicitly required.
    • Moritz Macke
      ... There is a huge number of words that come from the *per- root and its Ablaut forms though and not all have much to do with far . PIE *per- PG *fer-
      Message 57 of 57 , Nov 10, 2005
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        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "stefichjo" <sts@s...> wrote:
        >
        > As you may already know, EN "far" comes from PIE *"per-" and
        > corresponds to DE "fern" (etymonline). So far so good.
        >
        > FS for forder forn
        > EN before fore- in_front
        >
        > FS fur furder furn
        > EN for further far
        >
        > Question: how can one say DE "Fürsprecher" and DE "Vorsprecher" in FS?
        >
        > Regards,
        > Stephan Schneider
        >
        There is a huge number of words that come from the *per- root and its
        Ablaut forms though and not all have much to do with "far".

        PIE *per- > PG *fer- there is "far" and Ger. "fern", though "fern" is
        really a formation from the German equivalent of "far" (OHG. ferro),
        which has died out, with "-an" suffix. Meaning originally "from far"
        then also just "far away". The meaning of simple "far" in English was
        mostly taken by "weit/weiter" in German. It's not really closely
        related to "for" since that's from a different PIE Ablaut level and
        had a different meaning back then already. Also "farther/further" as
        an Comparative to "far" is English only ("further" regular to "forth"
        though), older regular form in English as well as German was "ferrer".
        So regularily one could have "fer(r), ferrer, fern" meaning
        "far(weit), further(weiter), far away(weit weg/fern)". Additionally
        there can also be Comp. and Superlative forms of "fern" like in German
        "ferner, fern(e)st", meaning "farther(more far) away, furdest(most
        far) away".

        PIE *por- > PG *far- we have "fahren" and all the words around that.

        PIE *pr-/pro- > PG *fur-/fra- make up the majority of words
        apparently. "fore"/"vor"/"für" with German only (at least only
        surviving) formation "vorder" (whereto "fordern"), "vorn",
        "first"/"Fürst" (Superlative to "for"). "forth"/"fort" also somehow
        formed from the PG *fur- root, comparative to it "further"/"fürder",
        to which the verb "fördern". "from" comes from the "fra-" root, as is
        "fremd".

        Various other words from those roots are also "First", "Frist",
        "früh", "fromm", "Fron", "Frau", "former", etc.
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