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Spelling rules

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  • Thomas Martin Widmann
    I think the time has come to think about the spelling rules. In the following, V will signify a short vowel, V: a long vowel, C a single consonant, and CC a
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2001
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      I think the time has come to think about the spelling rules.

      In the following, V will signify a short vowel, V: a long vowel,
      C a single consonant, and CC a doubled consonant.

      Let us first look at the various Germanic languages. I'll start with
      the easy ones.

      Dutch:

      VC is written as VC. kom /kOm/
      V:C is written as VVC. woon /vo:n/
      VCV is written as VCCV. kommen /kOm@(n)/
      V:CV is written as VCV. wonen /vo:n@(n)/

      Norwegian and Swedish:

      VC is written as VCC. vann /van(:)/
      V:C is written as VC. hus /hü:s/
      VCV is written as VCCV. vannet /van(:)@(t)/
      V:CV is written as VCV. huset /hü:s@(t)/

      Danish:

      VC is written as VC. vat /væd/
      V:C is written as VC. hus /hu:s/
      VCV is written as VCCV. vattet /væd@ð/
      V:CV is written as VCV. huset /hu:s@ð/

      (Note: There is no general way to tell whether a monosyllable has a
      short or a long vowel! In a lot of cases, though, a silent <d> is
      added, e.g., _vand_ /væn/, _falde_ /fæl@/.)

      German:

      VC is written as VCC. komm /kOm/
      V:C is written as V(V/h)C. Hut /hu:t/
      wohn /vo:n/
      Boot /bo:t/
      VCV is written as VCCV. kommen /kOm@n/
      V:CV is written as V(V/h)CV. Hute /hu:t@/
      wohnen /vo:n@n/
      Boote /bo:t@/

      English:

      VC is written as VC(C). hit /hIt/
      fill /fIl/
      V:C is written as VVC meet /mi:t/
      or VCe. mate /meit/
      VCV is written as VCCV. hitting /hItIN/
      filling /fIlIN/
      V:CV is written as VVCV meeting /mi:tIN/
      or VCV. mating /meitIN/


      So, summing up (a language name in parentheses means that the language
      doesn't use this way of spelling exclusively):

      VC written as VC: Dutch, Danish, (English).
      VC written as VCC: German, Swedish, Norwegian, (English).

      V:C written as VVC: Dutch, (English, German).
      V:C written as VC: Scandinavian, (German).
      V:C written as VCe: (English).

      VCV written as VCCV: All.

      V:CV written as VCV: Dutch, Scandinavian, (English, German).
      V:CV written as VVCV: (English, German).

      Counting this, the best result seems to be:
      VC written as VCC (full)
      V:C written as VVC (spraak)
      VCCV written as VCCV (fulle)
      V:CV written as VCV (sprake)

      I'm not so happy about the last one, because it makes it much harder
      to learn to spell correctly, so actually I'd go for VVCV (spraake).

      Comments?

      /Thomas
      --
      Thomas Martin Widmann, Universitetsparken 8, 2., -333, DK-8000 Århus C
      Tel.: 7028 4406 * (park) 8942 7333 * (mob.) 2167 6127 * (SDS) 8733 4465
      <mailto:viralbus@...> <URL:http://www.daimi.au.dk/~viralbus>
      MA stud. (ling-dat); stud.prog.; aktiv radikal; formand/DK-TUG; T4ONF/TK
    • The Keenans
      ... Well that turned out to be pretty easy huh? I like it. What is the difference in sound between long a spraak and short a sprakk? Does this mean that
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 2001
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        > Counting this, the best result seems to be:
        > VC written as VCC (full)
        > V:C written as VVC (spraak)
        > VCCV written as VCCV (fulle)
        > V:CV written as VCV (sprake)
        >
        > I'm not so happy about the last one, because it makes it much harder
        > to learn to spell correctly, so actually I'd go for VVCV (spraake).
        >
        > Comments?

        Well that turned out to be pretty easy huh? I like it.

        What is the difference in sound between long 'a' spraak and short 'a'
        sprakk?

        Does this mean that Dat (my dialect for English that) becomes Datt or
        Daat?

        I always jast gave 'aa' the sound of 'a' in father.

        So.. Miin frendens, Iik tiink datt iigens aar gae guudliik.
        We wil hab ons en spraak mere erlii denn latt. :)

        -Duke


        > /Thomas
        > --
        > Thomas Martin Widmann, Universitetsparken 8, 2., -333, DK-8000 Århus
        > C
        > Tel.: 7028 4406 * (park) 8942 7333 * (mob.) 2167 6127 * (SDS) 8733
        > 4465
        > <mailto:viralbus@...>
        > <URL:http://www.daimi.au.dk/~viralbus>
        > MA stud. (ling-dat); stud.prog.; aktiv radikal; formand/DK-TUG;
        > T4ONF/TK
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        > Browse the draft word lists!
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      • Daan Goedkoop
        ... Yes. I think it s OK, and indeed, VVCV (as Dutch did it so about 100 years ago wij koomen naar de neederlandsche bank ) [Non-text portions of this message
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 2, 2001
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          > Counting this, the best result seems to be:
          > VC written as VCC (full)
          > V:C written as VVC (spraak)
          > VCCV written as VCCV (fulle)
          > V:CV written as VCV (sprake)
          >
          > I'm not so happy about the last one, because it makes it much harder
          > to learn to spell correctly, so actually I'd go for VVCV (spraake).
          >
          > Comments?

          Yes. I think it's OK, and indeed, VVCV (as Dutch did it so about 100 years ago "wij koomen naar de neederlandsche bank")


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Daan Goedkoop
          ... Datt (it s short) ... The aa does not exist in English. Try to say a short o , and then unround your lips. For Germans it is just the a in Bahn. For
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 3, 2001
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            > What is the difference in sound between long 'a' spraak and short 'a'
            > sprakk?
            >
            > Does this mean that Dat (my dialect for English that) becomes Datt or
            > Daat?
            Datt (it's short)

            >
            > I always jast gave 'aa' the sound of 'a' in father.
            >

            The aa does not exist in English. Try to say a short 'o', and then "unround" your lips. For Germans it is just the a in Bahn. For Dutch' it would not be any problem...

            Daan.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Thomas Martin Widmann
            ... Right. ... It depends on the dialect. For most, the sound of in _father_ will be just fine. ... That vowel would be very far back. ... I guess it will
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 3, 2001
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              "Daan Goedkoop" <dgoedkoop@...> writes:

              > > What is the difference in sound between long 'a' spraak and short 'a'
              > > sprakk?
              > >
              > > Does this mean that Dat (my dialect for English that) becomes Datt or
              > > Daat?
              > Datt (it's short)

              Right.

              > > I always jast gave 'aa' the sound of 'a' in father.
              > >
              >
              > The aa does not exist in English.

              It depends on the dialect. For most, the sound of <a> in _father_
              will be just fine.

              > Try to say a short 'o', and then "unround" your lips.

              That vowel would be very far back.

              > For Germans it is just the a in Bahn. For Dutch' it would not be any
              > problem...

              I guess it will be quite easy to hear where Folkspraak speakers are
              from...

              /Thomas
              --
              Thomas Martin Widmann, Universitetsparken 8, 2., -333, DK-8000 Århus C
              Tel.: 7028 4406 * (park) 8942 7333 * (mob.) 2167 6127 * (SDS) 8733 4465
              <mailto:viralbus@...> <URL:http://www.daimi.au.dk/~viralbus>
              MA stud. (ling-dat); stud.prog.; aktiv radikal; formand/DK-TUG; T4ONF/TK
            • The Keenans
              ... Oh, Okay. In my form of English (Syracuse Upstate New York) We don t round our lips to say short O anyways. :) -Duke Keenan
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 3, 2001
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                Daan Goedkoop wrote:
                >

                > The aa does not exist in English. Try to say a short 'o', and then
                > "unround" your lips. For Germans it is just the a in Bahn. For Dutch'
                > it would not be any problem...

                Oh, Okay. In my form of English (Syracuse Upstate New York) We don't
                round our lips to say short 'O' anyways. :)

                -Duke Keenan



                > Daan.
                >
              • spizzgat@yahoo.com
                ... I don t know...it seems kind of redundant. My personal opinion is that either VC or V:C should be written as VC. Why have VVC and VCC but no VC?
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 15, 2001
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                  > Counting this, the best result seems to be:
                  > VC written as VCC (full)
                  > V:C written as VVC (spraak)
                  > VCCV written as VCCV (fulle)
                  > V:CV written as VCV (sprake)
                  >
                  > I'm not so happy about the last one, because it makes it much harder
                  > to learn to spell correctly, so actually I'd go for VVCV (spraake).
                  >
                  > Comments?
                  >
                  > /Thomas

                  I don't know...it seems kind of redundant. My personal opinion is
                  that either VC or V:C should be written as VC. Why have VVC and VCC
                  but no VC?
                • Daan Goedkoop
                  ... therefore, I suggest: VC as VCC full V:C as VVC spraak VCV as VCCV fulle V:CV as VVCV spraake
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 16, 2001
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                    > > Counting this, the best result seems to be:
                    > > VC written as VCC (full)
                    > > V:C written as VVC (spraak)
                    > > VCCV written as VCCV (fulle)
                    > > V:CV written as VCV (sprake)
                    > >
                    > > I'm not so happy about the last one, because it makes it much harder
                    > > to learn to spell correctly, so actually I'd go for VVCV (spraake).
                    >
                    > I don't know...it seems kind of redundant. My personal opinion is
                    > that either VC or V:C should be written as VC. Why have VVC and VCC
                    > but no VC?

                    therefore, I suggest:

                    VC as VCC full
                    V:C as VVC spraak
                    VCV as VCCV fulle
                    V:CV as VVCV spraake

                    This makes the spelling the easiest as possible.


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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