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Re: New Poll about vowel system orthography

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  • roerdinkholder_ingmar
    So, what about a binding poll about the FS vowel system? Matt added some alternative systems that looked pretty coherent and regular, maybe someone else has
    Message 1 of 93 , Aug 1, 2005
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      So, what about a binding poll about the FS vowel system?
      Matt added some alternative systems that looked pretty coherent and
      regular, maybe someone else has ideas for another one?
      David, we didn't hear from you about this... you agree to have such
      a poll?

      Ingmar


      > I want to propose a new poll about the FS vowel system.
      >
      > I think we should make a decision about an orthography that serves
      > both accepted pronunciations, so [ai] + [i:] for ProGerm *[i:],
      > [au] and [u:] for ProGerm *[u:], and [u:] and [o:] for ProGerm *
      [o:].
      >
      > It's very important that our choice respects both of these pronos,
      > that is why I gave up my own double vowels here; because <uu>
      would
      > be read as [u:] not [au], and <ii> would be regarded as [i:] not
      > [au].
      > For the same reason <au> and <ai> should be given up, because they
      > can't be read as both [u:]/[au] and [i:]/[ai], just the latter.
      > The case of <oo> is different, that could be both [o:] and [u:],
      > actually <oo> for [u:] is closer to Swedish, Norwegian and
      English,
      > and less 'foreign' than <ou> = [u:] used by some now.
      > Btw, Scandinavian long u isn't always [{:] as we could read in
      some
      > messages, because Danish has [u:] here.
      >
      >
      > My offer is three different vowel systems that can be chosen as a
      > whole.
      > The vowel systems shouldn't be pell-mell but regular and
      consistent.
      > =======================================
      > *System 1] short vowels no accents, long vowels with accents:
      > Short Long
      > a â
      > e ê
      > i î [ai] or [i:], depending on variety
      > o ô [u:] or [o:], " "
      > œ ö
      > u û [au] or [u:], " "
      > y ü
      >
      > for the umlauts, I want to give both the favorers of œ/y and those
      > of ö/ü a chance to be represented, and this fits nicely into the
      > rule of short vowels without accent, long ones with.
      >
      >
      > *System 2] <y> and <ou> + accents:
      > Short Long
      > a â
      > e ê
      > i y [ai] or [i:], depending on variety
      > o ô [u:] or [o:], " "
      > œ ö
      > u ou [au] or [u:], " "
      > y ü (here there is a problem with y [y] and y [ai]/[i:]
      >
      >
      > *System 3] <y> and <ou> + double vowels:
      > Short Long
      > a aa
      > e ee
      > i y [ai] or [i:], depending on variety
      > o oo [u:] or [o:], " "
      > œ/ö öö
      > u ou [au] or [u:], " "
      > ü üü
      > ==============================================
      > I haven't made a poll yet because I wanted to show it to you and
      > discuss it first, but I really want to make a deal about this
      item,
      > that gives room to both pronunciation preferences, and I think the
      > above proposals are pretty much what's possible.
      >
      > Ingmar
    • roerdinkholder_ingmar
      Oh, in Dutch means: by all means, if you really insist. I looked it up and found out that the international usage is
      Message 93 of 93 , Aug 25, 2005
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        Oh, in Dutch <perse> <per se> <persé> <persee> means: by all means, if
        you really insist. I looked it up and found out that the international
        usage is different, in itself, 'an sich' etc., so I see you didn't
        understand ;-)

        I remember that in Hungarian, <persze> is naturally, of course, sure.
        In the nineties I used to visit Budapest a lot, I had friends (and
        girlfriends) there, I learned some colloquial Magyarul (Hungarian),
        but I forgot most of it now.
        Btw Moritz, I went to Bécs several times too, which is better known as
        Wien... I had some friends there too (and a girlfriend), and heard a
        lot of Wienerisch and other Austrian dialect.
        I even went with my girlfriend to a Ostbahn Kurti concert!
        Doss gibt's jo gor net ;-)

        Ingmar




        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...>
        wrote:
        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Moritz Macke" <morm83@y...>
        wrote:
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...>
        > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > OK, but I still don't understand exactly what that should mean...
        > > >
        > > > Is that really the correct word to choose here?
        > > >
        > > Sounds a bit wrong to me too, I always thought "per se" was roughly
        > > "by itself" or ger. "an sich".
        >
        > Yeah, Swedish "i sig", FS "an sic"?
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