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Re: Some more words

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  • wakuran_wakaran
    ... ... ... (boat, ... constriction, I ... constraint. ... aircraft ... Fersorgen, ... kajuta ... Kabine, ... speakers ...
    Message 1 of 105 , Jul 3, 2005
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      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@x> wrote:
      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...>
      wrote:
      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@x>
      wrote:
      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
      <hakans@w...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@x>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
      > > <hakans@w...>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke"
      <parked@x>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
      > > > > <hakans@w...>
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
      > > > > > > <hakans@w...>
      > > > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke"
      > > > > <parked@x>
      > > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > SAURSTOFF
      > > > > > > > > > > > > n. = oxygen
      > > > > > > > > > > > > NL zuurstof, DE Sauerstoff, SV syre, syrgas
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > "In fall fon ðe plotslik ferlœst fon
      > > > > > > flygtygkajutsluftðrang
      > > > > > > > > > schulle
      > > > > > > > > > > > > saurstoffmasken wese ferschafft"
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > "In fall av de plotslik ferloost av
      > > > > > > flytygkajutslufttrang
      > > > > > > > > > skullen
      > > > > > > > > > > > > saurstoffmasken vesen ferskafft"
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > flygtygkajutsluftðrang?? =P
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > flygtyg = aircraft
      > > > > > > > > > > kajut = cabin, saloon, interior of vehicle
      (boat,
      > > bus,
      > > > > plane
      > > > > > > etc)
      > > > > > > > > > > luft = air
      > > > > > > > > > > ðrang = pressure.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Very cumbersome word... =P
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Aha, "air pressure" should be "luftðruck",
      > > not "luftðrang"
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > (De Luftdruck, Nl luchtdruk, Se lufttryck)
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Since ðruck or druck should be the main word for
      > > pressure,
      > > > > > > this
      > > > > > > > > > compound is also logical.
      > > > > > > > > > "ðruck" would refer to the act of pushing,
      > > wheras "ðrang"
      > > > > > > would
      > > > > > > > > > refer more to the act of tightness or
      constriction, I
      > > > > think,
      > > > > > > > > > ðwang/twang would refer to compulsion or
      constraint.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > In the event of sudden terrifying loss of
      aircraft
      > > cabin
      > > > > air
      > > > > > > > > > pressure,
      > > > > > > > > > > oxygen masks will be provided
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Hmmm, I think schaffen should refer to the act of
      > > taking,
      > > > > not
      > > > > > > > > > giving, so I would prefer a synonym here.
      Fersorgen,
      > > > > > > Bîbringen...
      > > > > > > > > > (Of course, I see the word is used like that in
      > > German, so
      > > > > I
      > > > > > > might
      > > > > > > > > > change my mind...)
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Actually, it seems that DE Kajüte, Nl kajuit Se
      kajuta
      > > Dk
      > > > > kahyt
      > > > > > > is
      > > > > > > > > used mainly for boats/nautical context, while De
      Kabine,
      > > Nl
      > > > > > > cabine,
      > > > > > > > > Se kabin is used for plans/aviational context.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > "kabin" it is then. That works better for English
      speakers
      > > too.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Another attempt:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > "In fall, ðat ðe luftðruck in ðe flíegtuigs kabíne
      > > ploetslîk
      > > > > > > sculde
      > > > > > > > > drastisc sinken, sûrstoffmasken scall wurden(become)
      > > gévet
      > > > > tu ðe
      > > > > > > > > passagéreren."
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > DE and NL have verschaffen, SV skaffa, hence FS
      > > > > > > ferschaffe/ferskaffen. Meaning provide,
      > > > > > > > supply, furnish.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > No, the swedish word means "obtain". But of course,
      > > > > > > there are other examples than ferschaffen
      (obtain/provide)
      > > where
      > > > > fer-
      > > > > > > creates an opposite word such as ferkópen (buy/sell)
      and
      > > > > ferráden
      > > > > > > (advice/betray).
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I don't want to argue with you about it, since you should
      know
      > > your
      > > > > > own language, but Lexin translates it as "provide" as well
      > > > > as "obtain"
      > > > > > or "get". But I think they mean "provide" as in get for
      > > someone
      > > > > else.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > bokhandeln skaffade fram min beställning---the bookshop
      got me
      > > the
      > > > > > books I'd ordered
      > > > > > hon skaffade sig en cykel---she got hold of a bike
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > OK, yeah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, I would interpret
      that
      > > > > as "obtaining" for someone else.
      > > > >
      > > > > > So förskaffa (if it existed) would mean...
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I know about "införskaffa", which means something
      like "obtain".
      > > > >
      > > > > > I found it quite difficult to find any common word for
      > > > > supply/provide
      > > > > > across the sourcelangs and ferschaffe/ferskaffen was the
      best
      > > I
      > > > > could
      > > > > > find. Do you any other sugestions? I am also looking for a
      > > word for
      > > > > > "get" or "obtain"
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I thought about "fersorgen" or "bîbringen", looking at the
      LEO
      > > page,
      > > > > but perhaps these words would look strange to Dutch speakers.
      > > > >
      > > > > Hmmm, maybe "schaffen" for obtain might not be used that
      much in
      > > > > German.
      > > > >
      > > > > Your suggestion "Ferwerven" is OK. There are some words
      found in
      > > two
      > > > > core langs which could be used. No words particularly easy
      for
      > > > > anglophones, though...
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > I doesn't need to be obvious for anglophones, just common in
      NL, DE
      > > > and 1 scandy language would be good enough.
      > > >
      > > > I know NL krijgen and DE kriegen both mean, to get, to
      acquire.
      > > But I
      > > > don't suppose SV kriga has anything like that meaning.
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > No, only "wage war", but maybe that should be "kríg fúíren", or
      > > something like that.
      > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > "Flygmachin" or similar is also valid as an FS word
      and
      > > works
      > > > > > > better for Englishspeakers
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > And for scandinavians...
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Words for "aircraft" I found:
      > > > > > NL vliegtuig, vliegmachine, DE Flugzeug, Luftfahrzeug, DA
      > > > > > flyvemaskine, SV flygplan, luftfartyg and EN aircraft,
      > > aeroplane,
      > > > > > airplane, flying machine (very old fashioned -- conjures
      up
      > > images
      > > > > of
      > > > > > planes made of word, canvas and string)
      > > > > > SV luftfartyg, I think is an "interglotism"
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Yeah, I haven't heard it. I have heard "flygmaskin" though,
      but
      > > that
      > > > > might be a danicism or an archaism.
      > > > >
      > > > > > "Flygmachin" is I think probably more international and
      its a
      > > > > > self-explanatory compound. So is "flygtyg", but words
      > > like "tyg"
      > > > > are
      > > > > > not totally common across the sourcelangs. (As a matter of
      fact
      > > > > > English once had "tew" but it's obsolete or dialect)
      > > > > > But if "flygtyg" or similar is definitely not used in
      > > scandinavian,
      > > > > > then perhaps it should not be valid (or at
      least "flygmachin"
      > > > > should
      > > > > > be preferred)
      > > > > >

      Btw, the most used word in Swedish is flygplan (Both nouns flyg and
      plan are also used.)

      > > > >
      > > > > How was "tew" used, like "object/matter", as is common among
      > > > > corelangs?
      > > >
      > > > "Tew" meant tools, apparatus, paraphanalia, gear. Similar to
      > > DE "Zeug"
      > > > it seems.
      > > >
      > > > tew /tju:/ n.2 obs. exc. dial.LME.
      > > > [Corresp. to WFris. tuch, late MDu., mod.Du. tuig, MLG, LG
      tüch,
      > > MHG
      > > > ziuc, G Zeug apparatus, tools, utensils, tackle, etc.]
      > > > 1 Fishing tackle; nets, fishing-lines, etc. LME–E17.
      > > > 2 Implements, tools, necessary materials for work; gear. E17.
      > > >
      > >
      > > Which book is that from. BTW, I think "tackel" is used in
      Swedish.
      >
      > Whoops, that was the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary on CD-ROM.
      >
      > tackle /"tak@l, in sense 2 also "teIk@l/ n.ME.
      > [Prob. f. (M)LG takel (whence also Du., G Takel, Sw. tackel), f.
      taken
      > = MDu. tacken lay hold of: see -LE1. In sense 8 f. TACKLE v. See
      also
      > TEAGLE.]
      > Shorter OED again.
      >
      > So FS should have a word like "tackel" or "takel". Not sure
      whether to
      > have a long or short vowel. Its one of those 2/2 splits where I
      > normally go with the English side.
      > Now what would the "idiom neutral" meaning be? (to steal a phrase
      from
      > Interlingua) My favorite idiomatic usage is English "wedding-
      tackle"
      >
      >

      What? In Swedish, both meanings exist, the nautical and, (at least
      in sports sense,) the verb "tackla".

      > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I chose the the long compound deliberately to look
      > > > > intimidating
      > > > > > > and officialese. Therefore:
      > > > > > > > flygmachinkabinluftðruck/flygmachinkabinlufttrukk. Hmm
      > > maybe
      > > > > these
      > > > > > > should be some
      > > > > > > > "s" in this word somewhere: flygmachinskabinsluftðruck
      or
      > > > > > > something...
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > "In fall sink ðe flygmachinkabinluftðruck plotslik,
      schall
      > > > > > > saurstoffmasken werðe ferschafft"
      > > > > > > > "In fall sink de flymachinkabinlufttrukk plotslik,
      skall
      > > > > > > saurstoffmasken verden ferskafft"
    • David Parke
      ... Sorry, it would have been helpful for me to put the link in that last post, i suppose: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pieial/
      Message 105 of 105 , Jul 26, 2005
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        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...> wrote:
        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@x> wrote:
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@x> wrote:
        > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
        > <hakans@w...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
        > <hakans@w...>
        > > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > As I have said before, I doubt that PIE words would be easy
        > to
        > > > > > recognize, even if the modern words have developed from
        > them... Or
        > > > > > what do you think of these examples of stories in
        > reconstructed PIE
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > P.S. What I would want to see is a English-*PIE wordlist,
        > sorted on
        > > > > topic etc.
        > > > >
        > > > > Also, with information about if the root could be found native
        > in the
        > > > > different core language groups in their original stages(I.E.
        > not
        > > > > borrowed).
        > > > >
        > > > > Italic, Baltic, Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, Greek,
        > Indic/Iranian,
        > > > > Armenian, Albanian, Tocharian, Anatolian
        > > > >
        > > > > Some roots would probably be found in nearly all groups,
        > whereas
        > > > > others more obscure(could be noted) in only two or three, with
        > > unclear
        > > > > connections.
        > > >
        > > > There are some words in Germanic langs that don't appear in
        > other IE
        > > > langs. It is theorised that these are borrowings from pre-IE
        > people
        > > > who were the origianl inhabitants of the germanic lands.
        > > > The alternate theory is some of them are IE words that have only
        > > > survived in the Germlangs. That is the IE word died out in other
        > IE
        > > > dialects. Neither theories are provable.
        > >
        > > Right now if I were the moderator of this group, I would be
        > butting in
        > > and suggesting that those interested in this topic join Roly's
        > group
        > > and keep the FS group on topic. But I ain't the moderator so do as
        > you
        > > will. I have already just joined Roly's group BTW.
        >
        > How and where can I find Roly's group?

        Sorry, it would have been helpful for me to put the link in that last
        post, i suppose:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pieial/
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