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Re: [folkspraak] Digest Number 145

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  • Jonathan North Washington
    «« on second thought judging my poor spelling maybe that would be a bad idea :)William Beazley wrote: back from the brink I see. I haven t seen any
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 23, 2001
      ««
      on second thought judging my poor spelling maybe that would be a bad
      idea :)

      William Beazley wrote:
      >
      > back from the brink I see. I haven't seen any traffice on this..
      >
      > Is folkspraak dead? If its not and we could produce a anewer release
      > I would humur the idea of writing a simple folkpraak to english
      > translator.
      »»

      How about the other way around? English -> Folkspraak. Or maybe both
      directions?

      ««
      I wrote the grammar outline, so I can respond. The idea is to make the
      grammar as simple as possible and to pick the most basic ideas which are
      common to English and German. German has the genitive case, English does
      not. English uses "'s" German does not. Both English and German can
      understand, "das Buch von Johannes" to mean "John's book".
      »»

      German uses -es for the genitive

      ««
      Write a translator between standard English and International English, aka
      Folklish. (Reit e transletor betwin standard English and Internashanul
      English.)
      »»

      /wrVjdV tr[à]ntslejdr= b@twin st[à]ndr=d INglIS [à]nd Intr=næ:SIn@l INglIS/
      The problem with your idea of removing from English's grammar all the things
      that make English hard to learn is that the majority of those are fun
      Germanic remnants.

      ===
      Jonathan North Washington
      http://jnw.freeservers.com/

      "Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons
      for thou art crunchy and taste good
      with ketchup."
      ...


      _________________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
    • Dan Dawes
      In a perfect world you would have a bidirectional translator between English and Folkspraak and between German and Folkspraak. The translator should be only
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 23, 2001
        In a perfect world you would have a bidirectional translator between English
        and Folkspraak and between German and Folkspraak. The translator should be
        only an early learning tool. If English and German speakers cannot easily
        read or write Folkspraak based on their knowledge of their native language
        and maybe a little information about Folkspraak, then the conlang has failed
        its intended purpose as a working pan-Germanic pidkin.

        With all due respect to the Scandanavian and other Germanic languages, count
        the heads. If the pidkin works for Scandanavians, but not for English and
        German speakers, then you have just another entertaining internet conlang.
        Quite frankly, I regret to say that at this point and for the foreseeable
        future, Folkspraak is just anohter amusing internet conlang too.

        Who would embarrass themselves in the real world by writing or speaking what
        is going to appear as a personally made-up pidkin, Folkspraak, rather than
        learning an approximation to standard English or German? Here in California
        some of us speak Spanglish, which needless to say has no literature, but is
        a means whereby Hispanics and Anglos try to communicate with each other. It
        is a language which is limited to commands to do things and responses to
        such commands. Anyting more complicated than "cut that hedge" gets
        expressed in either standard English or Spanish. Comprendo hombre? Adios
        muchachos.

        Dan


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jonathan North Washington [mailto:ivan_71270@...]
        Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:13 AM
        To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Digest Number 145


        ««
        on second thought judging my poor spelling maybe that would be a bad
        idea :)

        William Beazley wrote:
        >
        > back from the brink I see. I haven't seen any traffice on this..
        >
        > Is folkspraak dead? If its not and we could produce a anewer release
        > I would humur the idea of writing a simple folkpraak to english
        > translator.
        »»

        How about the other way around? English -> Folkspraak. Or maybe both
        directions?

        ««
        I wrote the grammar outline, so I can respond. The idea is to make the
        grammar as simple as possible and to pick the most basic ideas which are
        common to English and German. German has the genitive case, English does
        not. English uses "'s" German does not. Both English and German can
        understand, "das Buch von Johannes" to mean "John's book".
        »»

        German uses -es for the genitive

        ««
        Write a translator between standard English and International English, aka
        Folklish. (Reit e transletor betwin standard English and Internashanul
        English.)
        »»

        /wrVjdV tr[à]ntslejdr= b@twin st[à]ndr=d INglIS [à]nd Intr=næ:SIn@l INglIS/
        The problem with your idea of removing from English's grammar all the things
        that make English hard to learn is that the majority of those are fun
        Germanic remnants.

        ===
        Jonathan North Washington
        http://jnw.freeservers.com/

        "Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons
        for thou art crunchy and taste good
        with ketchup."
        ...

        _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
        Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

        Browse the draft word lists!
        http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

        Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/


        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • William Beazley
        Here is the thing... The way I view it is this can be a kind of neutral in between.. You go to restaurant lets say on a ferry across the baltic run by some
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 23, 2001
          Here is the thing... The way I view it is this can be a kind of neutral
          in between..

          You go to restaurant lets say on a ferry across the baltic run by some
          Danish company or something of that order. The menu is written in
          Danish and Folkspraak. As long as people include Folkspraak then never
          have to add or revise. This is just an argument for need not for the
          actual choosing of the syntax or word choice. But, I will say this what
          is key is that it have unvarying simple rules and that the word choices
          should be driven by what will make it the easiest for someone with very
          limited knowledge make full use if this language, in other words, if
          someone who is traveling to this region could read a pamphlet of info
          and very simple rules have access to this language it is bound to work.
          What I also would like is that I can read the words and be able to kind
          of Sound it out. It would be like a Texan (Like me) writing things
          phonetically and people having to actually READ what I have written.

          that's all for now..


          Dan Dawes wrote:
          >
          > In a perfect world you would have a bidirectional translator between English
          > and Folkspraak and between German and Folkspraak. The translator should be
          > only an early learning tool. If English and German speakers cannot easily
          > read or write Folkspraak based on their knowledge of their native language
          > and maybe a little information about Folkspraak, then the conlang has failed
          > its intended purpose as a working pan-Germanic pidkin.
          >
          > With all due respect to the Scandanavian and other Germanic languages, count
          > the heads. If the pidkin works for Scandanavians, but not for English and
          > German speakers, then you have just another entertaining internet conlang.
          > Quite frankly, I regret to say that at this point and for the foreseeable
          > future, Folkspraak is just anohter amusing internet conlang too.
          >
          > Who would embarrass themselves in the real world by writing or speaking what
          > is going to appear as a personally made-up pidkin, Folkspraak, rather than
          > learning an approximation to standard English or German? Here in California
          > some of us speak Spanglish, which needless to say has no literature, but is
          > a means whereby Hispanics and Anglos try to communicate with each other. It
          > is a language which is limited to commands to do things and responses to
          > such commands. Anyting more complicated than "cut that hedge" gets
          > expressed in either standard English or Spanish. Comprendo hombre? Adios
          > muchachos.
          >
          > Dan
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jonathan North Washington [mailto:ivan_71270@...]
          > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:13 AM
          > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Digest Number 145
          >
          > ««
          > on second thought judging my poor spelling maybe that would be a bad
          > idea :)
          >
          > William Beazley wrote:
          > >
          > > back from the brink I see. I haven't seen any traffice on this..
          > >
          > > Is folkspraak dead? If its not and we could produce a anewer release
          > > I would humur the idea of writing a simple folkpraak to english
          > > translator.
          > »»
          >
          > How about the other way around? English -> Folkspraak. Or maybe both
          > directions?
          >
          > ««
          > I wrote the grammar outline, so I can respond. The idea is to make the
          > grammar as simple as possible and to pick the most basic ideas which are
          > common to English and German. German has the genitive case, English does
          > not. English uses "'s" German does not. Both English and German can
          > understand, "das Buch von Johannes" to mean "John's book".
          > »»
          >
          > German uses -es for the genitive
          >
          > ««
          > Write a translator between standard English and International English, aka
          > Folklish. (Reit e transletor betwin standard English and Internashanul
          > English.)
          > »»
          >
          > /wrVjdV tr[à]ntslejdr= b@twin st[à]ndr=d INglIS [à]nd Intr=næ:SIn@l INglIS/
          > The problem with your idea of removing from English's grammar all the things
          > that make English hard to learn is that the majority of those are fun
          > Germanic remnants.
          >
          > ===
          > Jonathan North Washington
          > http://jnw.freeservers.com/
          >
          > "Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons
          > for thou art crunchy and taste good
          > with ketchup."
          > ...
          >
          > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
          > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          > Browse the draft word lists!
          > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          >
          > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          > Browse the draft word lists!
          > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          >
          > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

          --
          Will Beazley
          Systems Administrator Equator Technologies
          FON: 512.502.2003 |EML: mailto:beazley@...
          FAX: 512.231.8108 |PAG: 888.213.7053
        • William Beazley
          As somewhat pertinent article http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1235000/1235945.stm ... -- Will Beazley Systems Administrator Equator Technologies
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 23, 2001
            As somewhat pertinent article

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1235000/1235945.stm


            William Beazley wrote:
            >
            > Here is the thing... The way I view it is this can be a kind of neutral
            > in between..
            >
            > You go to restaurant lets say on a ferry across the baltic run by some
            > Danish company or something of that order. The menu is written in
            > Danish and Folkspraak. As long as people include Folkspraak then never
            > have to add or revise. This is just an argument for need not for the
            > actual choosing of the syntax or word choice. But, I will say this what
            > is key is that it have unvarying simple rules and that the word choices
            > should be driven by what will make it the easiest for someone with very
            > limited knowledge make full use if this language, in other words, if
            > someone who is traveling to this region could read a pamphlet of info
            > and very simple rules have access to this language it is bound to work.
            > What I also would like is that I can read the words and be able to kind
            > of Sound it out. It would be like a Texan (Like me) writing things
            > phonetically and people having to actually READ what I have written.
            >
            > that's all for now..
            >
            > Dan Dawes wrote:
            > >
            > > In a perfect world you would have a bidirectional translator between English
            > > and Folkspraak and between German and Folkspraak. The translator should be
            > > only an early learning tool. If English and German speakers cannot easily
            > > read or write Folkspraak based on their knowledge of their native language
            > > and maybe a little information about Folkspraak, then the conlang has failed
            > > its intended purpose as a working pan-Germanic pidkin.
            > >
            > > With all due respect to the Scandanavian and other Germanic languages, count
            > > the heads. If the pidkin works for Scandanavians, but not for English and
            > > German speakers, then you have just another entertaining internet conlang.
            > > Quite frankly, I regret to say that at this point and for the foreseeable
            > > future, Folkspraak is just anohter amusing internet conlang too.
            > >
            > > Who would embarrass themselves in the real world by writing or speaking what
            > > is going to appear as a personally made-up pidkin, Folkspraak, rather than
            > > learning an approximation to standard English or German? Here in California
            > > some of us speak Spanglish, which needless to say has no literature, but is
            > > a means whereby Hispanics and Anglos try to communicate with each other. It
            > > is a language which is limited to commands to do things and responses to
            > > such commands. Anyting more complicated than "cut that hedge" gets
            > > expressed in either standard English or Spanish. Comprendo hombre? Adios
            > > muchachos.
            > >
            > > Dan
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Jonathan North Washington [mailto:ivan_71270@...]
            > > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 7:13 AM
            > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Digest Number 145
            > >
            > > ««
            > > on second thought judging my poor spelling maybe that would be a bad
            > > idea :)
            > >
            > > William Beazley wrote:
            > > >
            > > > back from the brink I see. I haven't seen any traffice on this..
            > > >
            > > > Is folkspraak dead? If its not and we could produce a anewer release
            > > > I would humur the idea of writing a simple folkpraak to english
            > > > translator.
            > > »»
            > >
            > > How about the other way around? English -> Folkspraak. Or maybe both
            > > directions?
            > >
            > > ««
            > > I wrote the grammar outline, so I can respond. The idea is to make the
            > > grammar as simple as possible and to pick the most basic ideas which are
            > > common to English and German. German has the genitive case, English does
            > > not. English uses "'s" German does not. Both English and German can
            > > understand, "das Buch von Johannes" to mean "John's book".
            > > »»
            > >
            > > German uses -es for the genitive
            > >
            > > ««
            > > Write a translator between standard English and International English, aka
            > > Folklish. (Reit e transletor betwin standard English and Internashanul
            > > English.)
            > > »»
            > >
            > > /wrVjdV tr[à]ntslejdr= b@twin st[à]ndr=d INglIS [à]nd Intr=næ:SIn@l INglIS/
            > > The problem with your idea of removing from English's grammar all the things
            > > that make English hard to learn is that the majority of those are fun
            > > Germanic remnants.
            > >
            > > ===
            > > Jonathan North Washington
            > > http://jnw.freeservers.com/
            > >
            > > "Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons
            > > for thou art crunchy and taste good
            > > with ketchup."
            > > ...
            > >
            > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
            > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
            > >
            > > Browse the draft word lists!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            > >
            > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > > Browse the draft word lists!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            > >
            > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            > --
            > Will Beazley
            > Systems Administrator Equator Technologies
            > FON: 512.502.2003 |EML: mailto:beazley@...
            > FAX: 512.231.8108 |PAG: 888.213.7053
            >
            >
            > Browse the draft word lists!
            > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            >
            > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

            --
            Will Beazley
            Systems Administrator Equator Technologies
            FON: 512.502.2003 |EML: mailto:beazley@...
            FAX: 512.231.8108 |PAG: 888.213.7053
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