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Re: Bendy Words

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  • wakuran_wakaran
    ... Not kurve, kurven? ... SV båge=bow, böjning=bending ... SV buga=bow, böja=bend ... SV-välvd-arched ... This is a low german borrowing. Otherwise, it
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 1, 2004
      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@x> wrote:
      >
      > Anybody want some words for bend/turn/curve? Too bad, I'm gonna post
      > 'em anyway. If it has a *, it's disputable due to me fudging the
      > results
      >
      > FS kurf. pl kurven n. = curve, bend, arch
      > cf EN curve, DE Kurve, SV kurva, IL curva.
      >
      Not kurve, kurven?

      > FS *kurvere. v. = to bend, to flex, to curve, to bow
      > cf EN curve. IL curvar.
      >
      > FS bog. pl = bogen. n. = bow, bend, curve, arch.
      > cf EN bow, NL bocht, boog, DE Bogen,SV båge, böjning
      >
      SV båge=bow, böjning=bending

      > FS biege. v = to bend, to bow, to flex.
      > cf EN bow, NL buigen, DE beugen, verbeugen,biegen, SV buga, böja
      >
      SV buga=bow, böja=bend

      > FS swenke v. = to swerve, to veer, to turn, to change direction
      > cf NL zwenking, DE schwenken, SV svänga
      >
      > FS *welve v.= to bend , to curve, to flex, to bow.
      > cf EN whelve (extremely obsolete or obscure dialect), NL welven DE
      > Wölbung
      >
      SV-välvd-arched

      > FS draje v. = to turn, to change direction.
      > cf EN *throw, NL draaien, DE Drehen. SV dreja
      >
      This is a low german borrowing. Otherwise, it would likely have been
      spelled with a t today in swedish...

      > FS rond a. = circular, curvy, round, spherical
      > EN round, NL ronding, DE Rundung, SV rund, IL ronde
      >
      > FS wende v. = to turn, to change direction.
      > cf EN wend, NL wenden, DL wenden. SV vända
      >
      > FS rotere v. = to rotate, to girate, to spin.
      > cf EN rotate NL roteren DE rotieren IL rotar
      >
      SV rotera

      > FS rolle v. = to rotate, to roll, to rock
      > cf EN roll, NL rollen, DE rollen
      >
      SV rulla

      > wirvele v. = to spine, to rotate, to girate, to whirl
      > cf EN whirl, NL wervelen, DE wirbeln
      >
      SV virvla

      > FS spinne v. = to spin, to rotate, to whirl.
      > past = spann, spannen. pp = (ge)spunnen
      > cf EN spin, NL spinnen, SV spinna.

      DE has "spinnen", primarily meaning "spinning yarn", also, according
      to Leo, "to be bonkers"...

      >
      > Feel free to suggest alternative meanings for any of these. There are
      > lots of synomyns available so we might be able to make some of them
      > have subtle differences in meaning.

      I have also the synonym "benden", since I believe it's reasonable with
      only two core branches (EN, SV)

      Personally, I don't think it is such a good idea to have a verb
      infinitive without an n-ending.
      I believe the reason it was left in scandinavian,
      is that old norse tended to lose many nasal sounds...
      cf W.germ In, N.germ I ; W.germ Un, N.germ U,
      W.germ thank N.germ takk...
      I.e. scandinavian e/a infinitive ending is originally the same as
      german/dutch -en-ending, proto-germanic -an-ending(?), just with the
      final -n being lost...
      IMHO I believe an -e-ending is both confusing and etymologically
      incorrect...
      If we would choose to have an infinitive ending,
      unlike english who has dropped it completely,
      I believe -en should be used...
    • parked71
      ... post ... I don t really like sticking unstress syllables on the end of nouns if they don t serve some gramatical purpose. And I don t like words that end
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 1, 2004
        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...>
        wrote:
        >
        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@x> wrote:
        > >
        > > Anybody want some words for bend/turn/curve? Too bad, I'm gonna
        post
        > > 'em anyway. If it has a *, it's disputable due to me fudging the
        > > results
        > >
        > > FS kurf. pl kurven n. = curve, bend, arch
        > > cf EN curve, DE Kurve, SV kurva, IL curva.
        > >
        > Not kurve, kurven?

        I don't really like sticking unstress syllables on the end of nouns
        if they don't serve some
        gramatical purpose. And I don't like words that end in -v. I think I
        have some sort of
        English/Dutch sense of orthological properness. I know it's not
        really regular.

        >
        > > FS *kurvere. v. = to bend, to flex, to curve, to bow
        > > cf EN curve. IL curvar.
        > >
        > > FS bog. pl = bogen. n. = bow, bend, curve, arch.
        > > cf EN bow, NL bocht, boog, DE Bogen,SV båge, böjning
        > >
        > SV båge=bow, böjning=bending
        >
        > > FS biege. v = to bend, to bow, to flex.
        > > cf EN bow, NL buigen, DE beugen, verbeugen,biegen, SV buga,
        böja
        > >
        > SV buga=bow, böja=bend
        >

        I think there is something going one here, with there being two
        versions of this verb, a
        transitive one and an intransitive one. German and Sweden seemed to
        have kept the
        distinction. One of the German ones (forget which) is strong, the
        other weak. English has
        lost the distinction between the two verbs..


        > > FS swenke v. = to swerve, to veer, to turn, to change direction
        > > cf NL zwenking, DE schwenken, SV svänga
        > >
        > > FS *welve v.= to bend , to curve, to flex, to bow.
        > > cf EN whelve (extremely obsolete or obscure dialect), NL welven DE
        > > Wölbung
        > >
        > SV-välvd-arched

        It is a common word in Swedish? I couldn't see it on Interglot.com.
        It looks like a the past-
        participle of a verb. Is the verb ever used?.
        >
        > > FS draje v. = to turn, to change direction.
        > > cf EN *throw, NL draaien, DE Drehen. SV dreja
        > >
        > This is a low german borrowing. Otherwise, it would likely have been
        > spelled with a t today in swedish...
        >
        > > FS rond a. = circular, curvy, round, spherical
        > > EN round, NL ronding, DE Rundung, SV rund, IL ronde
        > >
        > > FS wende v. = to turn, to change direction.
        > > cf EN wend, NL wenden, DL wenden. SV vända
        > >
        > > FS rotere v. = to rotate, to girate, to spin.
        > > cf EN rotate NL roteren DE rotieren IL rotar
        > >
        > SV rotera
        >
        > > FS rolle v. = to rotate, to roll, to rock
        > > cf EN roll, NL rollen, DE rollen
        > >
        > SV rulla
        >
        > > wirvele v. = to spine, to rotate, to girate, to whirl
        > > cf EN whirl, NL wervelen, DE wirbeln
        > >
        > SV virvla

        Tack, the English whirl is a borrowing from Old Norse/Old Danish.
        Although there was a
        native Old English form that was replaced by the Scandinavian form. I
        didn't see the
        Swedish word on Interglot.com




        > > FS spinne v. = to spin, to rotate, to whirl.
        > > past = spann, spannen. pp = (ge)spunnen
        > > cf EN spin, NL spinnen, SV spinna.
        >
        > DE has "spinnen", primarily meaning "spinning yarn", also, according
        > to Leo, "to be bonkers"...
        >
        > >
        > > Feel free to suggest alternative meanings for any of these. There
        are
        > > lots of synomyns available so we might be able to make some of
        them
        > > have subtle differences in meaning.
        >
        > I have also the synonym "benden", since I believe it's reasonable
        with
        > only two core branches (EN, SV)
        >
        > Personally, I don't think it is such a good idea to have a verb
        > infinitive without an n-ending.
        > I believe the reason it was left in scandinavian,
        > is that old norse tended to lose many nasal sounds...
        > cf W.germ In, N.germ I ; W.germ Un, N.germ U,
        > W.germ thank N.germ takk...
        > I.e. scandinavian e/a infinitive ending is originally the same as
        > german/dutch -en-ending, proto-germanic -an-ending(?), just with the
        > final -n being lost...
        > IMHO I believe an -e-ending is both confusing and etymologically
        > incorrect...
        > If we would choose to have an infinitive ending,
        > unlike english who has dropped it completely,
        > I believe -en should be used...

        Perhaps. I once used -en. But since English has lost the ending, and
        the Scandinavian
        langs don't an -n. And spoken Dutch generally drops the -n. Which is
        putting the
        Germlangs that use -en kind of into the minority. So I'm kinda
        leaning towards losing the
        -n.
        I personally would EITHER keep the -en for plurals of nouns and use
        -e for infinitives and
        plurals of verbs OR use -e for plurals of verbs and -en for
        infinitives and plurals of verbs.
        Using the -n for infinitives, I would say it is about as questionable
        as using ge- to form
        past participles. It may be the most conservative and therefore the
        most proto-germanic
        usage but it isn't necessarily the most reflective of current and
        majority usage.
      • parked71
        ... Ooops. Should read : I personally would EITHER keep the -en for plurals of nouns and use -e for infinitives and plurals of verbs OR use -e for plurals
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2004
          > I personally would EITHER keep the -en for plurals of nouns and use
          > -e for infinitives and
          > plurals of verbs OR use -e for plurals of verbs and -en for
          > infinitives and plurals of verbs.

          Ooops. Should read :

          " I personally would EITHER keep the -en for plurals of nouns and use
          -e for infinitives and plurals of verbs OR use -e for plurals of
          NOUNS and -en for infinitives and plurals of verbs."
        • wakuran_wakaran
          ... the ... I ... According to SAOB, buga is causative of böja .... ... welven DE ... So-so... The verb is used, although not too often. It means shape as
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 2, 2004
            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@x> wrote:
            >
            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@x> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Anybody want some words for bend/turn/curve? Too bad, I'm gonna
            > post
            > > > 'em anyway. If it has a *, it's disputable due to me fudging
            the
            > > > results
            > > >
            > > > FS kurf. pl kurven n. = curve, bend, arch
            > > > cf EN curve, DE Kurve, SV kurva, IL curva.
            > > >
            > > Not kurve, kurven?
            >
            > I don't really like sticking unstress syllables on the end of nouns
            > if they don't serve some
            > gramatical purpose. And I don't like words that end in -v. I think
            I
            > have some sort of
            > English/Dutch sense of orthological properness. I know it's not
            > really regular.
            >
            > >
            > > > FS *kurvere. v. = to bend, to flex, to curve, to bow
            > > > cf EN curve. IL curvar.
            > > >
            > > > FS bog. pl = bogen. n. = bow, bend, curve, arch.
            > > > cf EN bow, NL bocht, boog, DE Bogen,SV båge, böjning
            > > >
            > > SV båge=bow, böjning=bending
            > >
            > > > FS biege. v = to bend, to bow, to flex.
            > > > cf EN bow, NL buigen, DE beugen, verbeugen,biegen, SV buga,
            > böja
            > > >
            > > SV buga=bow, böja=bend
            > >
            >
            > I think there is something going one here, with there being two
            > versions of this verb, a
            > transitive one and an intransitive one. German and Sweden seemed to
            > have kept the
            > distinction. One of the German ones (forget which) is strong, the
            > other weak. English has
            > lost the distinction between the two verbs..
            >
            >
            According to SAOB, "buga" is causative of "böja"....

            > > > FS swenke v. = to swerve, to veer, to turn, to change direction
            > > > cf NL zwenking, DE schwenken, SV svänga
            > > >
            > > > FS *welve v.= to bend , to curve, to flex, to bow.
            > > > cf EN whelve (extremely obsolete or obscure dialect), NL
            welven DE
            > > > Wölbung
            > > >
            > > SV-välvd-arched
            >
            > It is a common word in Swedish? I couldn't see it on Interglot.com.
            > It looks like a the past-
            > participle of a verb. Is the verb ever used?.

            So-so... The verb is used, although not too often. It means "shape
            as an arch" or "roll"...

            > >
            > > > FS draje v. = to turn, to change direction.
            > > > cf EN *throw, NL draaien, DE Drehen. SV dreja
            > > >
            > > This is a low german borrowing. Otherwise, it would likely have
            been
            > > spelled with a t today in swedish...
            > >
            > > > FS rond a. = circular, curvy, round, spherical
            > > > EN round, NL ronding, DE Rundung, SV rund, IL ronde
            > > >
            > > > FS wende v. = to turn, to change direction.
            > > > cf EN wend, NL wenden, DL wenden. SV vända
            > > >
            > > > FS rotere v. = to rotate, to girate, to spin.
            > > > cf EN rotate NL roteren DE rotieren IL rotar
            > > >
            > > SV rotera
            > >
            > > > FS rolle v. = to rotate, to roll, to rock
            > > > cf EN roll, NL rollen, DE rollen
            > > >
            > > SV rulla
            > >
            > > > wirvele v. = to spine, to rotate, to girate, to whirl
            > > > cf EN whirl, NL wervelen, DE wirbeln
            > > >
            > > SV virvla
            >
            > Tack, the English whirl is a borrowing from Old Norse/Old Danish.
            > Although there was a
            > native Old English form that was replaced by the Scandinavian
            form. I
            > didn't see the
            > Swedish word on Interglot.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > > FS spinne v. = to spin, to rotate, to whirl.
            > > > past = spann, spannen. pp = (ge)spunnen
            > > > cf EN spin, NL spinnen, SV spinna.
            > >
            > > DE has "spinnen", primarily meaning "spinning yarn", also,
            according
            > > to Leo, "to be bonkers"...
            > >
            > > >
            > > > Feel free to suggest alternative meanings for any of these.
            There
            > are
            > > > lots of synomyns available so we might be able to make some of
            > them
            > > > have subtle differences in meaning.
            > >
            > > I have also the synonym "benden", since I believe it's reasonable
            > with
            > > only two core branches (EN, SV)
            > >
            > > Personally, I don't think it is such a good idea to have a verb
            > > infinitive without an n-ending.
            > > I believe the reason it was left in scandinavian,
            > > is that old norse tended to lose many nasal sounds...
            > > cf W.germ In, N.germ I ; W.germ Un, N.germ U,
            > > W.germ thank N.germ takk...
            > > I.e. scandinavian e/a infinitive ending is originally the same as
            > > german/dutch -en-ending, proto-germanic -an-ending(?), just with
            the
            > > final -n being lost...
            > > IMHO I believe an -e-ending is both confusing and etymologically
            > > incorrect...
            > > If we would choose to have an infinitive ending,
            > > unlike english who has dropped it completely,
            > > I believe -en should be used...
            >
            > Perhaps. I once used -en. But since English has lost the ending,
            and
            > the Scandinavian
            > langs don't an -n. And spoken Dutch generally drops the -n. Which
            is
            > putting the
            > Germlangs that use -en kind of into the minority. So I'm kinda
            > leaning towards losing the
            > -n.
            > I personally would EITHER keep the -en for plurals of nouns and use
            > -e for infinitives and
            > plurals of verbs OR use -e for plurals of verbs and -en for
            > infinitives and plurals of verbs.
            > Using the -n for infinitives, I would say it is about as
            questionable
            > as using ge- to form
            > past participles. It may be the most conservative and therefore the
            > most proto-germanic
            > usage but it isn't necessarily the most reflective of current and
            > majority usage.

            Hmmm, I don't have a different tense for singular and plural verbs,
            myself... It's hard to make a language both syntactic and natural...
            =S
          • Aron Boström
            ... There is a »bog« in swedish too, I think it comes from »båge«. It means the the bow on a boat. On animals it also means the shoulder . ... ? SV valv
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
              måndagen den 1 november 2004 07:57 skrev parked71:
              > Anybody want some words for bend/turn/curve? Too bad, I'm gonna post
              > 'em anyway. If it has a *, it's disputable due to me fudging the
              > results
              >
              > FS kurf. pl kurven n. = curve, bend, arch
              > cf EN curve, DE Kurve, SV kurva, IL curva.
              >
              > FS *kurvere. v. = to bend, to flex, to curve, to bow
              > cf EN curve. IL curvar.
              >
              > FS bog. pl = bogen. n. = bow, bend, curve, arch.
              > cf EN bow, NL bocht, boog, DE Bogen,SV båge, böjning

              There is a »bog« in swedish too, I think it comes from »båge«. It means the
              the bow on a boat. On animals it also means the "shoulder".


              > FS *welve v.= to bend , to curve, to flex, to bow.
              > cf EN whelve (extremely obsolete or obscure dialect), NL welven DE
              > Wölbung

              ? SV valv (en. arch [vault])
              There is SCY välla which means to turn, to browse (from LA valve, to turn, to
              roll, also present in revolution and evolve)

              > FS rond a. = circular, curvy, round, spherical
              > EN round, NL ronding, DE Rundung, SV rund, IL ronde

              EN round (noun) SV runda SCY ronna FS? ronde

              EN rounding SV rundning

              EN roundabout SV rundell SCY ronning

              EN circle SV cirkel

              EN ring SV ring

              EN (a)round SV runt(om), runtikring, runtomkring (also runt omkring)
              "around the world", "världen runt"
              "round the corner", "runt hörnet"

              EN sightseeing tour SV rundtur

              SV runda EN take over someone who is on a previous lap in a race, when Michael
              Schumacher drives his ferrari, he "rundar" ("rounds") his opponents... :-)

              > FS wende v. = to turn, to change direction.
              > cf EN wend, NL wenden, DL wenden. SV vända
              In swedish »vända« also could mean flip.

              In swedish there is
              noun: »en vända« (a route, one "round" in a running lap, a distance to a point
              [where you turn] and back)
              noun: »en vändning« (a turning)
              noun: »en vändpunkt« (turning point, FS? wendepunkt)
              »vändbar« (turnable, FS? wende-¿bar?)

              > FS rotere v. = to rotate, to girate, to spin.
              > cf EN rotate NL roteren DE rotieren IL rotar
              SV rotera, snurra

              EN rotation SV rotation, snurr


              > FS rolle v. = to rotate, to roll, to rock
              > cf EN roll, NL rollen, DE rollen
              SV rulla SCY rolla

              noun: SV rulle SCY rolle (a roll?)

              > wirvele v. = to spine, to rotate, to girate, to whirl
              > cf EN whirl, NL wervelen, DE wirbeln
              SV virvla, snurra

              FS: lofen wirvele (leaves whirls)

              noun: EN whirl SV snurr
              noun: EN whirl EV virvel
              noun: EN tornado SV tromb, virvelvind, virvel
            • wakuran_wakaran
              ... post ... means the ... DE ... to turn, to ... In swedish välla means well/pour forth. Seems to come from the same root, originally... =S ... omkring)
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Aron Boström <aron@l...> wrote:
                > måndagen den 1 november 2004 07:57 skrev parked71:
                > > Anybody want some words for bend/turn/curve? Too bad, I'm gonna
                post
                > > 'em anyway. If it has a *, it's disputable due to me fudging the
                > > results
                > >
                > > FS kurf. pl kurven n. = curve, bend, arch
                > > cf EN curve, DE Kurve, SV kurva, IL curva.
                > >
                > > FS *kurvere. v. = to bend, to flex, to curve, to bow
                > > cf EN curve. IL curvar.
                > >
                > > FS bog. pl = bogen. n. = bow, bend, curve, arch.
                > > cf EN bow, NL bocht, boog, DE Bogen,SV båge, böjning
                >
                > There is a »bog« in swedish too, I think it comes from »båge«. It
                means the
                > the bow on a boat. On animals it also means the "shoulder".
                >
                >
                > > FS *welve v.= to bend , to curve, to flex, to bow.
                > > cf EN whelve (extremely obsolete or obscure dialect), NL welven
                DE
                > > Wölbung
                >
                > ? SV valv (en. arch [vault])
                > There is SCY välla which means to turn, to browse (from LA valve,
                to turn, to
                > roll, also present in revolution and evolve)
                >
                In swedish "välla" means well/pour forth.
                Seems to come from the same root, originally... =S

                > > FS rond a. = circular, curvy, round, spherical
                > > EN round, NL ronding, DE Rundung, SV rund, IL ronde
                >
                > EN round (noun) SV runda SCY ronna FS? ronde
                >
                > EN rounding SV rundning
                >
                > EN roundabout SV rundell SCY ronning
                >
                > EN circle SV cirkel
                >
                > EN ring SV ring
                >
                > EN (a)round SV runt(om), runtikring, runtomkring (also runt
                omkring)
                > "around the world", "världen runt"
                > "round the corner", "runt hörnet"

                Runtikring? Is that common? (I see it's common enough to be in the
                SAOL, anyway, but I don't think I ever have heard it... =S)
                >
                > EN sightseeing tour SV rundtur
                >
                Or SV sightseeing... ^^

                > SV runda EN take over someone who is on a previous lap in a race,
                when Michael
                > Schumacher drives his ferrari, he "rundar" ("rounds") his
                opponents... :-)
                >
                Also noun "runda":"round", I think...

                > > FS wende v. = to turn, to change direction.
                > > cf EN wend, NL wenden, DL wenden. SV vända
                > In swedish »vända« also could mean flip.
                >
                > In swedish there is
                > noun: »en vända« (a route, one "round" in a running lap, a
                distance to a point
                > [where you turn] and back)
                > noun: »en vändning« (a turning)
                > noun: »en vändpunkt« (turning point, FS? wendepunkt)
                > »vändbar« (turnable, FS? wende-¿bar?)
                >
                -Bár is common in all corelangs except english,
                -Som/-Sam in all corelangs except dutch, I think.
                I guess I would choose -sam over -som,
                since it's etymologically truer...
                Wend(e)-bár is good... -bár is -able, -sam is -some,(alike)
                (I guess the suffixes -sam and -lík could be rather interchangeable,
                though...)

                > > FS rotere v. = to rotate, to girate, to spin.
                > > cf EN rotate NL roteren DE rotieren IL rotar
                > SV rotera, snurra
                >
                > EN rotation SV rotation, snurr
                >
                >
                > > FS rolle v. = to rotate, to roll, to rock
                > > cf EN roll, NL rollen, DE rollen
                > SV rulla SCY rolla
                >
                > noun: SV rulle SCY rolle (a roll?)
                >
                > > wirvele v. = to spine, to rotate, to girate, to whirl
                > > cf EN whirl, NL wervelen, DE wirbeln
                > SV virvla, snurra
                >
                > FS: lofen wirvele (leaves whirls)
                >
                "Whirl", leaves are pluralis... @@ Just being nitpicky...

                > noun: EN whirl SV snurr
                > noun: EN whirl EV virvel
                > noun: EN tornado SV tromb, virvelvind, virvel

                I would say tornado is just as common in swedish,
                as the purely(?) scandinavian word "tromb",
                (Possibly related to "trumpet"??.
                Not found in SAOB, they have only come to "talkumera",
                vb. "to talc(k)")

                Eng: Tornado, Whirlwind, Cyclone, Typhoon

                Examples from Interglot.
                De:
                tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                Zyklon [der ~]
                Taifun [der ~]
                tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                Zyklon [der ~]
                Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                Wirbelwind [der ~]
                Taifun [der ~]

                Nl:
                tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                tyfoon [de ~ (m)]
                tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                tornado [de ~]
                cycloon [de ~ (m)]
                wervelwind [de ~ (m)]
                wervelstorm [de ~ (m)]

                Se:
                tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                tyfon
                tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                cyklon
                tornado
                tornado (waterspout)
                skydrag
                tornado
                tromb

                (skydrag means cloud/sky-draught...)

                Interlingua:
                tornado, cyclon, vento cyclonal.

                This should render
                FS tornádo, syklón, tyfón, (tai-fún??),
                wirv(/f?)el-wind, wirv(/f?)el-storm

                Also Hurricane: Orkán, (Eng Hurricane, Nl Orkaan, De and Sw Orkan.
                Il huracan)

                I am not quite sure about the scientific differences of all these
                meterological phenomenoms... =S
              • Aron Boström
                ... Cool, I didn t know there was such a word in swedish. In SCY it could also be a [web] browser. ... Could be a Scanism (think I have seen it in a
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
                  fredag 5 november 2004 01:25 skreb wakuran_wakaran:
                  > In swedish "välla" means well/pour forth.
                  > Seems to come from the same root, originally... =S

                  Cool, I didn't know there was such a word in swedish.
                  In SCY it could also be a [web] browser.

                  > Runtikring? Is that common? (I see it's common enough to be in the
                  > SAOL, anyway, but I don't think I ever have heard it... =S)

                  Could be a "Scanism" (think I have seen it in a dictionary once, it was
                  described as "an erroneous scanian influence on [standard]? swedish", can't
                  find it used a single time using Google though), because here in Scania it's
                  very usual, more usual than "runtomkring".

                  > > EN sightseeing tour SV rundtur
                  >
                  > Or SV sightseeing... ^^

                  Dough! I missed that one. :-)

                  > "Whirl", leaves are pluralis... @@ Just being nitpicky...

                  My FS grammar is very irregular :-)

                  > > noun: EN whirl SV snurr
                  > > noun: EN whirl EV virvel
                  > > noun: EN tornado SV tromb, virvelvind, virvel
                  >
                  > I would say tornado is just as common in swedish,
                  > as the purely(?) scandinavian word "tromb",
                  > (Possibly related to "trumpet"??.
                  > Not found in SAOB, they have only come to "talkumera",
                  > vb. "to talc(k)")

                  Yes, Tornado is the most common word I would guess.

                  > Eng: Tornado, Whirlwind, Cyclone, Typhoon
                  >
                  > Examples from Interglot.
                  > De:
                  > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                  > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                  > Zyklon [der ~]
                  > Taifun [der ~]
                  > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                  > Zyklon [der ~]
                  > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                  > Wirbelwind [der ~]
                  > Taifun [der ~]
                  >
                  > Nl:
                  > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                  > tyfoon [de ~ (m)]
                  > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                  > tornado [de ~]
                  > cycloon [de ~ (m)]
                  > wervelwind [de ~ (m)]
                  > wervelstorm [de ~ (m)]
                  >
                  > Se:
                  > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                  > tyfon
                  > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                  > cyklon
                  > tornado
                  > tornado (waterspout)
                  > skydrag
                  > tornado
                  > tromb
                  >
                  > (skydrag means cloud/sky-draught...)
                  >
                  > Interlingua:
                  > tornado, cyclon, vento cyclonal.
                  >
                  > This should render
                  > FS tornádo, syklón, tyfón, (tai-fún??),
                  > wirv(/f?)el-wind, wirv(/f?)el-storm
                  >
                  > Also Hurricane: Orkán, (Eng Hurricane, Nl Orkaan, De and Sw Orkan.
                  > Il huracan)
                  >
                  > I am not quite sure about the scientific differences of all these
                  > meterological phenomenoms... =S

                  There is a word "storm" too, I think it's in most core langs.


                  Aron
                • wakuran_wakaran
                  ... Really??... ... swedish , can t ... Scania it s ... That s OK, but don t let that affect your english grammar... @@ ... possibly cyklón, or cyclón... Not
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
                    --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Aron Boström <aron@l...> wrote:
                    > fredag 5 november 2004 01:25 skreb wakuran_wakaran:
                    > > In swedish "välla" means well/pour forth.
                    > > Seems to come from the same root, originally... =S
                    >
                    > Cool, I didn't know there was such a word in swedish.

                    Really??...

                    > In SCY it could also be a [web] browser.
                    >


                    > > Runtikring? Is that common? (I see it's common enough to be in the
                    > > SAOL, anyway, but I don't think I ever have heard it... =S)
                    >
                    > Could be a "Scanism" (think I have seen it in a dictionary once, it was
                    > described as "an erroneous scanian influence on [standard]?
                    swedish", can't
                    > find it used a single time using Google though), because here in
                    Scania it's
                    > very usual, more usual than "runtomkring".
                    >
                    > > > EN sightseeing tour SV rundtur
                    > >
                    > > Or SV sightseeing... ^^
                    >
                    > Dough! I missed that one. :-)
                    >

                    > > "Whirl", leaves are pluralis... @@ Just being nitpicky...
                    >
                    > My FS grammar is very irregular :-)
                    >
                    That's OK, but don't let that affect your english grammar... @@

                    > > > noun: EN whirl SV snurr
                    > > > noun: EN whirl EV virvel
                    > > > noun: EN tornado SV tromb, virvelvind, virvel
                    > >
                    > > I would say tornado is just as common in swedish,
                    > > as the purely(?) scandinavian word "tromb",
                    > > (Possibly related to "trumpet"??.
                    > > Not found in SAOB, they have only come to "talkumera",
                    > > vb. "to talc(k)")
                    >
                    > Yes, Tornado is the most common word I would guess.
                    >
                    > > Eng: Tornado, Whirlwind, Cyclone, Typhoon
                    > >
                    > > Examples from Interglot.
                    > > De:
                    > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                    > > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                    > > Zyklon [der ~]
                    > > Taifun [der ~]
                    > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                    > > Zyklon [der ~]
                    > > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                    > > Wirbelwind [der ~]
                    > > Taifun [der ~]
                    > >
                    > > Nl:
                    > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                    > > tyfoon [de ~ (m)]
                    > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                    > > tornado [de ~]
                    > > cycloon [de ~ (m)]
                    > > wervelwind [de ~ (m)]
                    > > wervelstorm [de ~ (m)]
                    > >
                    > > Se:
                    > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                    > > tyfon
                    > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                    > > cyklon
                    > > tornado
                    > > tornado (waterspout)
                    > > skydrag
                    > > tornado
                    > > tromb
                    > >
                    > > (skydrag means cloud/sky-draught...)
                    > >
                    > > Interlingua:
                    > > tornado, cyclon, vento cyclonal.
                    > >
                    > > This should render
                    > > FS tornádo, syklón, tyfón, (tai-fún??),
                    > > wirv(/f?)el-wind, wirv(/f?)el-storm
                    > >
                    possibly cyklón, or cyclón... Not sure, maybe not.. =S

                    > > Also Hurricane: Orkán, (Eng Hurricane, Nl Orkaan, De and Sw Orkan.
                    > > Il huracan)
                    > >
                    > > I am not quite sure about the scientific differences of all these
                    > > meterological phenomenoms... =S
                    >
                    > There is a word "storm" too, I think it's in most core langs.
                    >

                    Yeah, Examples ,including X-sampa-pronunciation,

                    Eng: storm, /sto:rm/
                    De: Sturm /sturm/
                    Nl: Storm /storm/
                    Se: Storm /storm/

                    Fs: Storm /storm/

                    One of the reasons why I chose to include the word "wirv(/f?)el-storm"
                    Usually I tend to include words only found in two core branches anyway,
                    but it helped that the compounds were so common words...

                    I think =S, please correct pronunciation errors...

                    >
                    > Aron
                  • Aron Boström
                    ... At a second thought, I think I have heard (and used) it before. I just didn t remember it instantly. Aron
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
                      fredagen den 5 november 2004 04:31 skrev wakuran_wakaran:
                      > > Cool, I didn't know there was such a word in swedish.
                      >
                      > Really??...

                      At a second thought, I think I have heard (and used) it before. I just didn't
                      remember it instantly.

                      Aron
                    • parked71
                      ... Whirlwind is a very valid English synonym for tornado . But it tends to refer to the smaller, less harmfull kinds of tornado. Another english synonym is
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
                        > >
                        > > I would say tornado is just as common in swedish,
                        > > as the purely(?) scandinavian word "tromb",
                        > > (Possibly related to "trumpet"??.
                        > > Not found in SAOB, they have only come to "talkumera",
                        > > vb. "to talc(k)")
                        >
                        > Yes, Tornado is the most common word I would guess.
                        >
                        > > Eng: Tornado, Whirlwind, Cyclone, Typhoon
                        > >
                        > > Examples from Interglot.
                        > > De:
                        > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                        > > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                        > > Zyklon [der ~]
                        > > Taifun [der ~]
                        > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                        > > Zyklon [der ~]
                        > > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                        > > Wirbelwind [der ~]
                        > > Taifun [der ~]
                        > >
                        > > Nl:
                        > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                        > > tyfoon [de ~ (m)]
                        > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                        > > tornado [de ~]
                        > > cycloon [de ~ (m)]
                        > > wervelwind [de ~ (m)]
                        > > wervelstorm [de ~ (m)]
                        > >
                        > > Se:
                        > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                        > > tyfon
                        > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                        > > cyklon
                        > > tornado
                        > > tornado (waterspout)
                        > > skydrag
                        > > tornado
                        > > tromb
                        > >
                        > > (skydrag means cloud/sky-draught...)
                        > >
                        > > Interlingua:
                        > > tornado, cyclon, vento cyclonal.
                        > >
                        > > This should render
                        > > FS tornádo, syklón, tyfón, (tai-fún??),
                        > > wirv(/f?)el-wind, wirv(/f?)el-storm
                        > >
                        > > Also Hurricane: Orkán, (Eng Hurricane, Nl Orkaan, De and Sw Orkan.
                        > > Il huracan)
                        > >
                        > > I am not quite sure about the scientific differences of all these
                        > > meterological phenomenoms... =S
                        >
                        > There is a word "storm" too, I think it's in most core langs.
                        >
                        >
                        > Aron

                        Whirlwind is a very valid English synonym for "tornado". But it tends
                        to refer to the smaller, less harmfull kinds of tornado. Another
                        english synonym is "twister". Also "Dust Devil". Dust Devil's are
                        generally benign. Twister and Tornado refer to the destructive whirlwinds.

                        "Huricane", "Typhoon" and "Cyclone" are basically synonyms in English.
                        They are all massive tropical storms caused by the same factors.
                        Typhoons occur in the North West Pacific. (Affecting Japan, Taiwan
                        etc). Tropical storms in the South West Pacific are referred to as
                        "Cyclones" (Affecting Australia, New Zealand, Fiji etc". Tropical
                        storms in the North West Atlantic are called "huricanes". (Such as
                        those affecting the South East USA and the Carribean Islands)

                        Cyclone, Typhoon and Huricane are NOT synonyms for tornado, Whirlwind,
                        and twister. These storms tend to happen INLAND on continental
                        landmasses during summer. They tend to be localised in effect, whereas
                        Cyclones/Typhoons/Huricanes tend to cover thousands of square kilometres.

                        Huricane ultimately comes from [Sp. huracán & Port. furacão prob. f.
                        Taino hurakán god of the storm.]

                        I (being an english speaker) would prefer a morphology more like the
                        source word. Perhaps "hurakan"


                        Typhoon has a very murky etymology. Perhaps from Arabic (via Greek) or
                        perhaps from chinese.

                        When borrowing words from outside the Germlangs. I tend to retain the
                        "foreign" spelling. The pronounciation of the word is then determined
                        by the spelling. Why do I do this? Because it (at least in written
                        rather than spoken languge) is generally a more recognisable form.
                        Dutch, German and English tend to operate this way. So written word of
                        Romance borrowings are frequently similar in these three languages,
                        even though the pronounciation might be quite difference.

                        I have observed that the scandy langs tend to not do this as ofton.
                        They seem to change the spelling of the word to match the pronounciation.
                        I suppose it might depend whether a word enters a language through a
                        written or an oral source.
                      • Jan-Willem Benjamins
                        ... dutch has -zaam (vreedzaam - peaceful; buigzaam - flexible) ... Jan-Willem ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo!
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 4, 2004
                          --- wakuran_wakaran <hakans@...> wrote:

                          > -Bár is common in all corelangs except english,
                          > -Som/-Sam in all corelangs except dutch, I think.

                          dutch has -zaam (vreedzaam - peaceful; buigzaam - flexible)

                          > I guess I would choose -sam over -som,
                          > since it's etymologically truer...
                          > Wend(e)-bár is good... -bár is -able, -sam is -some,(alike)
                          > (I guess the suffixes -sam and -lík could be rather interchangeable,
                          > though...)

                          Jan-Willem






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                        • wakuran_wakaran
                          ... whirlwinds. ... kilometres. ... I thought orkán was more similar to most core langs... ... It could be a mix-up of two different words.
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@x> wrote:
                            >
                            > > >
                            > > > I would say tornado is just as common in swedish,
                            > > > as the purely(?) scandinavian word "tromb",
                            > > > (Possibly related to "trumpet"??.
                            > > > Not found in SAOB, they have only come to "talkumera",
                            > > > vb. "to talc(k)")
                            > >
                            > > Yes, Tornado is the most common word I would guess.
                            > >
                            > > > Eng: Tornado, Whirlwind, Cyclone, Typhoon
                            > > >
                            > > > Examples from Interglot.
                            > > > De:
                            > > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                            > > > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                            > > > Zyklon [der ~]
                            > > > Taifun [der ~]
                            > > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                            > > > Zyklon [der ~]
                            > > > Wirbelsturm [der ~]
                            > > > Wirbelwind [der ~]
                            > > > Taifun [der ~]
                            > > >
                            > > > Nl:
                            > > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                            > > > tyfoon [de ~ (m)]
                            > > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                            > > > tornado [de ~]
                            > > > cycloon [de ~ (m)]
                            > > > wervelwind [de ~ (m)]
                            > > > wervelstorm [de ~ (m)]
                            > > >
                            > > > Se:
                            > > > tornado [the ~] (typhoon)
                            > > > tyfon
                            > > > tornado [the ~] (cyclone)
                            > > > cyklon
                            > > > tornado
                            > > > tornado (waterspout)
                            > > > skydrag
                            > > > tornado
                            > > > tromb
                            > > >
                            > > > (skydrag means cloud/sky-draught...)
                            > > >
                            > > > Interlingua:
                            > > > tornado, cyclon, vento cyclonal.
                            > > >
                            > > > This should render
                            > > > FS tornádo, syklón, tyfón, (tai-fún??),
                            > > > wirv(/f?)el-wind, wirv(/f?)el-storm
                            > > >
                            > > > Also Hurricane: Orkán, (Eng Hurricane, Nl Orkaan, De and Sw Orkan.
                            > > > Il huracan)
                            > > >
                            > > > I am not quite sure about the scientific differences of all these
                            > > > meterological phenomenoms... =S
                            > >
                            > > There is a word "storm" too, I think it's in most core langs.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Aron
                            >
                            > Whirlwind is a very valid English synonym for "tornado". But it tends
                            > to refer to the smaller, less harmfull kinds of tornado. Another
                            > english synonym is "twister". Also "Dust Devil". Dust Devil's are
                            > generally benign. Twister and Tornado refer to the destructive
                            whirlwinds.
                            >
                            > "Huricane", "Typhoon" and "Cyclone" are basically synonyms in English.
                            > They are all massive tropical storms caused by the same factors.
                            > Typhoons occur in the North West Pacific. (Affecting Japan, Taiwan
                            > etc). Tropical storms in the South West Pacific are referred to as
                            > "Cyclones" (Affecting Australia, New Zealand, Fiji etc". Tropical
                            > storms in the North West Atlantic are called "huricanes". (Such as
                            > those affecting the South East USA and the Carribean Islands)
                            >
                            > Cyclone, Typhoon and Huricane are NOT synonyms for tornado, Whirlwind,
                            > and twister. These storms tend to happen INLAND on continental
                            > landmasses during summer. They tend to be localised in effect, whereas
                            > Cyclones/Typhoons/Huricanes tend to cover thousands of square
                            kilometres.
                            >
                            > Huricane ultimately comes from [Sp. huracán & Port. furacão prob. f.
                            > Taino hurakán god of the storm.]
                            >
                            > I (being an english speaker) would prefer a morphology more like the
                            > source word. Perhaps "hurakan"
                            >
                            I thought "orkán" was more similar to most core langs...

                            >
                            > Typhoon has a very murky etymology. Perhaps from Arabic (via Greek) or
                            > perhaps from chinese.
                            >
                            It could be a mix-up of two different words.
                            http://www.bartleby.com/61/86/T0448600.html

                            > When borrowing words from outside the Germlangs. I tend to retain the
                            > "foreign" spelling. The pronounciation of the word is then determined
                            > by the spelling. Why do I do this? Because it (at least in written
                            > rather than spoken languge) is generally a more recognisable form.
                            > Dutch, German and English tend to operate this way. So written word of
                            > Romance borrowings are frequently similar in these three languages,
                            > even though the pronounciation might be quite difference.
                            >
                            > I have observed that the scandy langs tend to not do this as ofton.
                            > They seem to change the spelling of the word to match the
                            pronounciation.
                            > I suppose it might depend whether a word enters a language through a
                            > written or an oral source.

                            At least swedish used to do this in the middle ages,
                            but it is not that common with modern borowings.
                          • wakuran_wakaran
                            ... Good, it exists.. ^^ But it didn t seem that common? ... Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Willem Benjamins
                              <benjaminsjw@y...> wrote:
                              > --- wakuran_wakaran <hakans@w...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > -Bár is common in all corelangs except english,
                              > > -Som/-Sam in all corelangs except dutch, I think.
                              >
                              > dutch has -zaam (vreedzaam - peaceful; buigzaam - flexible)
                              >
                              Good, it exists.. ^^ But it didn't seem that common?

                              > > I guess I would choose -sam over -som,
                              > > since it's etymologically truer...
                              > > Wend(e)-bár is good... -bár is -able, -sam is -some,(alike)
                              > > (I guess the suffixes -sam and -lík could be rather interchangeable,
                              > > though...)
                              >
                              > Jan-Willem
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
                              Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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                            • Jan-Willem Benjamins
                              ... Handzaam, zwijgzaam, spaarzaam... Given sufficient time, I could come up with loads of examples :o) Anyhow, it s common enough. People here would
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                                --- wakuran_wakaran <hakans@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Willem Benjamins
                                > <benjaminsjw@y...> wrote:
                                > > --- wakuran_wakaran <hakans@w...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > -Bár is common in all corelangs except english,
                                > > > -Som/-Sam in all corelangs except dutch, I think.
                                > >
                                > > dutch has -zaam (vreedzaam - peaceful; buigzaam - flexible)
                                > >
                                > Good, it exists.. ^^ But it didn't seem that common?

                                Handzaam, zwijgzaam, spaarzaam... Given sufficient time, I could come
                                up with loads of examples :o)

                                Anyhow, it's common enough. People here would understand composites
                                with -sam. And that's what counts, innit? :o)

                                Jan-Willem






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                              • parked71
                                It s interesting, all the corelangs use cognates with -hood, -ness and -dom. And these three suffixes seem to have a very similar purpose/meaning. But some of
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                                  It's interesting, all the corelangs use cognates with -hood, -ness and
                                  -dom. And these three suffixes seem to have a very similar
                                  purpose/meaning. But some of these suffixes are more common on some
                                  languages than others. -dom is probably the least common of the three
                                  in English and -ness, the most common. Other germlangs have a
                                  different frequency/preference for these suffixes.



                                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Willem Benjamins
                                  <benjaminsjw@y...> wrote:
                                  > --- wakuran_wakaran <hakans@w...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Willem Benjamins
                                  > > <benjaminsjw@y...> wrote:
                                  > > > --- wakuran_wakaran <hakans@w...> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > -Bár is common in all corelangs except english,
                                  > > > > -Som/-Sam in all corelangs except dutch, I think.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > dutch has -zaam (vreedzaam - peaceful; buigzaam - flexible)
                                  > > >
                                  > > Good, it exists.. ^^ But it didn't seem that common?
                                  >
                                  > Handzaam, zwijgzaam, spaarzaam... Given sufficient time, I could

                                  It "handzaam" isn't the same meaning as english "handsome", is it.?


                                  come
                                  > up with loads of examples :o)
                                  >
                                  > Anyhow, it's common enough. People here would understand composites
                                  > with -sam. And that's what counts, innit? :o)
                                  >
                                  > Jan-Willem
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
                                  Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
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                                • Jan-Willem Benjamins
                                  ... LOL :o) Handzaam means something along the lines of compact , easy to handle and conveniently small Jan-Willem
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                                    --- parked71 <parked@...> wrote:

                                    > It "handzaam" isn't the same meaning as english "handsome", is it.?

                                    LOL :o) Handzaam means something along the lines of "compact", "easy to
                                    handle" and "conveniently small"

                                    Jan-Willem






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                                  • tungol65
                                    ... it.? ... of compact , easy to ... handsam would be a nice handy FS word! ... Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Willem Benjamins
                                      <benjaminsjw@y...> wrote:
                                      > --- parked71 <parked@x...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > It "handzaam" isn't the same meaning as english "handsome", is
                                      it.?
                                      >
                                      > LOL :o) Handzaam means something along the lines
                                      of "compact", "easy to
                                      > handle" and "conveniently small"

                                      "handsam" would be a nice "handy" FS word!

                                      > Jan-Willem
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • tungol65
                                      ... I just found this entry, it seems the English world originally had the same meaning! c.1400, handsom easy to handle, ready at hand; sense extended to
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 5, 2004
                                        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@n...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jan-Willem Benjamins
                                        > <benjaminsjw@y...> wrote:
                                        > > --- parked71 <parked@x> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > > It "handzaam" isn't the same meaning as english "handsome", is
                                        > it.?
                                        > >
                                        > > LOL :o) Handzaam means something along the lines
                                        > of "compact", "easy to
                                        > > handle" and "conveniently small"
                                        >
                                        > "handsam" would be a nice "handy" FS word!
                                        >
                                        > > Jan-Willem
                                        > >

                                        I just found this entry, it seems the English world originally had
                                        the same meaning!

                                        c.1400, handsom "easy to handle, ready at hand;" sense extended
                                        to "fair size, considerable" (1577), then "having fine form, good-
                                        looking" (1590). Meaning "generous" (in handsome reward, etc.) first
                                        recorded 1690.
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