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syntax & pronunciation

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  • Evert Mouw
    For folkspraak to archieve its target to be easy to use, understand and learn, it s important to have a consistant and easy syntax and pronunciation. I believe
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 1 3:04 AM
      For folkspraak to archieve its target to be easy to use, understand and
      learn, it's important to have a consistant and easy syntax and
      pronunciation.

      I believe Folkspraak has already a very good system for this:

      http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/folkgrammar.htm

      [quote]

      Spelling & Pronunciation

      The letters are those of the standard Roman alphabet without stress
      marks or other diacritical signs. The PRONUNCIATION is on the whole
      "classical" (vowels as in modern German; 'c' before 'e', 'i', 'y' like
      's' or 'ts', otherwise like 'k'; 'th' like 't'; 'ph' like 'f'; etc.).
      The STRESS is "natural" if it falls most frequently on the vowel before
      the last consonant.

      [/quote]

      I fear many developers are now using diacretics and different versions
      of syntax. Maybe we have to sort out syntax and pronunciation before
      creating new words and texts?

      Evert
    • tungol65
      ... and ... like ... etc.). ... before ... versions ... before ... Hmmm, to some extent I agree with you. However I think the grammar you quote should only be
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 1 6:33 AM
        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Evert Mouw <yahoo@e...> wrote:
        > For folkspraak to archieve its target to be easy to use, understand
        and
        > learn, it's important to have a consistant and easy syntax and
        > pronunciation.
        >
        > I believe Folkspraak has already a very good system for this:
        >
        > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/folkgrammar.htm
        >
        > [quote]
        >
        > Spelling & Pronunciation
        >
        > The letters are those of the standard Roman alphabet without stress
        > marks or other diacritical signs. The PRONUNCIATION is on the whole
        > "classical" (vowels as in modern German; 'c' before 'e', 'i', 'y'
        like
        > 's' or 'ts', otherwise like 'k'; 'th' like 't'; 'ph' like 'f';
        etc.).
        > The STRESS is "natural" if it falls most frequently on the vowel
        before
        > the last consonant.
        >
        > [/quote]
        >
        > I fear many developers are now using diacretics and different
        versions
        > of syntax. Maybe we have to sort out syntax and pronunciation
        before
        > creating new words and texts?
        >
        > Evert

        Hmmm, to some extent I agree with you. However I think the grammar
        you quote should only be seen as a starting point. Many of
        the "original rules" have now been superceded by the result of polls.
        The use of "-s" instead of "von" for the genitive is an example. I
        try to abide by the polls even if I do not entirely agree with the
        result. The use of diacritics to mark long vowels is my own choice,
        but perhaps I should go with the single or double consonant as
        decided in the poll result. I don't think we should get to hung up on
        pronounciation as I see Folkspraak as primarily a written language.
        Also I think one problem we have is the fluidity of our membership,
        for a few months someone posts regularly and their ideas are taken on
        board, then they stop posting (for which I am guilty) and other ideas
        take precedence for a while. Also I think it would be rather boring
        and near impossible if we just spent our time creating syntax, the
        point of any language is to be creative and express ideas. Syntax
        should develop over time through discussion of our texts. But that is
        just my point of view.

        Regards
      • wakuran_wakaran
        Re: Also I think one problem we have is the fluidity of our membership, for a few months someone posts regularly and their ideas are taken on board, then they
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 1 7:18 PM
          Re: "Also I think one problem we have is the fluidity of our
          membership, for a few months someone posts regularly and their ideas
          are taken on board, then they stop posting (for which I am
          guilty)..."

          You naughty boy! =P (...just kidding)
        • wakuran_wakaran
          ... understand ... stress ... whole ... before e , i , y ... polls. ... choice, ... on ... language. ... membership, ... on ... ideas ... boring ... is ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 1 7:39 PM
            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@n...> wrote:
            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Evert Mouw <yahoo@e...> wrote:
            > > For folkspraak to archieve its target to be easy to use,
            understand
            > and
            > > learn, it's important to have a consistant and easy syntax and
            > > pronunciation.
            > >
            > > I believe Folkspraak has already a very good system for this:
            > >
            > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/folkgrammar.htm
            > >
            > > [quote]
            > >
            > > Spelling & Pronunciation
            > >
            > > The letters are those of the standard Roman alphabet without
            stress
            > > marks or other diacritical signs. The PRONUNCIATION is on the
            whole
            > > "classical" (vowels as in modern German; 'c'
            before 'e', 'i', 'y'
            > like
            > > 's' or 'ts', otherwise like 'k'; 'th' like 't'; 'ph' like 'f';
            > etc.).
            > > The STRESS is "natural" if it falls most frequently on the vowel
            > before
            > > the last consonant.
            > >
            > > [/quote]
            > >
            > > I fear many developers are now using diacretics and different
            > versions
            > > of syntax. Maybe we have to sort out syntax and pronunciation
            > before
            > > creating new words and texts?
            > >
            > > Evert
            >
            > Hmmm, to some extent I agree with you. However I think the grammar
            > you quote should only be seen as a starting point. Many of
            > the "original rules" have now been superceded by the result of
            polls.
            > The use of "-s" instead of "von" for the genitive is an example. I
            > try to abide by the polls even if I do not entirely agree with the
            > result. The use of diacritics to mark long vowels is my own
            choice,
            > but perhaps I should go with the single or double consonant as
            > decided in the poll result. I don't think we should get to hung up
            on
            > pronounciation as I see Folkspraak as primarily a written
            language.
            > Also I think one problem we have is the fluidity of our
            membership,
            > for a few months someone posts regularly and their ideas are taken
            on
            > board, then they stop posting (for which I am guilty) and other
            ideas
            > take precedence for a while. Also I think it would be rather
            boring
            > and near impossible if we just spent our time creating syntax, the
            > point of any language is to be creative and express ideas. Syntax
            > should develop over time through discussion of our texts. But that
            is
            > just my point of view.
            >
            > Regards

            Uhmmm, I almost NEVER follow any proposed grammar and vocabulary,
            myself,
            I am too tired to read all those files,
            and often disagree with their proposals,
            so I just come up with something that makes enough sense.
            My excuse is that I primarily write in the dialect
            Dumm-Spraak/Dum-Sprák, not official "Folkspraak" =S
            People are free to borrow ideas from Dumm-Spraak if they wish to.. @@

            Also, I think the grammar is slightly outdated,
            and contains errors about the scandinavian languages,
            (For instance, there are no diacritics, which changes pronunciation
            and meaning significantly, and they also seem to have mixed up the
            reflexive and possessive genitive.
            (whatever the terminology is, i.e. hans/sin)..
            Hmmm, btw, the sources people use for the modern scandinavian
            languages often seems outdated and/or strange.
            I often got surprised about* the vocabulary people come up with,
            oh, well...)
            *(or however the correct english grammar is...)
          • wakuran_wakaran
            Just in case someone wanted to read this, info about the possessive pronouns in swedish: (I think danish and norwegian is, by large, very similar.)
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 1 7:48 PM
              Just in case someone wanted to read this, info about the possessive
              pronouns in swedish:
              (I think danish and norwegian is, by large, very similar.)

              http://web.hhs.se/isa/swedish/chap5.htm#group1

              Possessive pronouns are simply pronouns that show who owns something:
              My, your [singular], his, her, its, our, your [plural], their.

              Pronoun
              With en words
              With ett words
              With words in the plural

              my, mine
              min (gámla bil)
              mitt (nýa hus)
              mina (gámla bílar/nýa hus)

              your, yours [singular]
              din (váckra sýster [sister])
              ditt (víta fö´nster)
              dina (váckra sýstrar/víta fö´nster)

              his
              hans (rö´da cýkel)
              hans (éngelska [English] namn)
              hans (rö´da cýklar/éngelska namn)

              her, hers
              hénnes (stora säng)
              hénnes (várma tack)
              hénnes (stóra sä´ngar/várma tack)

              its
              dess (lílla hand)
              dess (víta ljus)
              dess (små hä'nder/víta ljus)

              our, ours
              vår (gláda nýhét)
              vårt (lúgna liv)
              våra (gláda nýhéter/lúgna liv)

              your, yours [plural]
              er (lílla dótter [daughter])
              ert (váckra barn)
              éra (små dö´ttrar/váckra barn)

              their, theirs
              déras (lå´nge son [son])
              déras (stóra rum)
              déras (lå´nga sö´ner/stóra rum)

              Only the "us" pronouns (my, your, ours) have separate forms for en
              words and ett words, similar to the endings for the adjectives; for
              the others there is only one form. The possessive pronouns in
              Swedish can also stand independently, without any change, in
              contrast to English: "Är det din bil? Ja, den är min." ("Is it your
              car? Yes, it's my car/it's mine.")

              The peculiar 'sin'

              There is also a common pronoun without a counterpart in English
              which is also treated in a similar way: `sin' (with ett
              words: 'sitt', in the plural: 'sina'). It is closely related to the
              possessive pronouns and can mean either `his', `her', `its'
              or `their'. Even most Swedes many times find it difficult to tell
              when to use `sin' or a regular possessive pronoun when a sentence
              becomes more complex, so you need not to be overly concerned about
              mastering it at this stage. The rule of thumb is:

              `Sin' is used every time you could insert `own' in English, and
              refers to the person or thing that does something.

              The following examples might help you to see the difference:

              Han kýsser sin únga hústru passionérat.
              He kisses his (own) young wife passionately.

              Han kýsser hans únga hústru passionérat.
              He kisses his (that is someone else's) young wife passionately
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