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Re: Some Folkspraak Web Pages (Some more words I don't understand)

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  • tungol65
    ... ... rhyme ... called Kernow ... Charter is derived from chartula from the same Latin root as card , and means roughly a small piece of
    Message 1 of 40 , Mar 15 7:37 AM
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      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran" <hakans@w...>
      wrote:
      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@n...>
      wrote:
      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wakuran_wakaran"
      <hakans@w...>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Which kind of birds are the "kernosk kauhen"?
      > >
      > > "kernosk kauhen" are "Cornish choughs" a member of the crow
      > family,
      > > in English it is usually just called a chough, pronounced to
      rhyme
      > > with rough, but in English heraldry it is almost always called
      > > a "Cornish chough". I used the adjective form "kernosk" rather
      > > than "kornosk", as Cornwall (an English county) is
      called "Kernow"
      > in
      > > the Celtic language once spoken there. "Chough" is a word with
      > > various forms in Old English "choughe/ca/kowe", there are Dutch
      > and
      > > Frisian cognates "kauw" and "ka" and Old High German had "chaha".
      > > Although in Modern Dutch it is a "steenkraai" and in German
      > > a "Alpenkrähe", but I thought "Cornish stone crow" or "Cornish
      > Alpine
      > > crow" sounded a bit long-winded.
      >
      > I don't know how common these words are, maybe you can add
      > "én sort krææ" (or something like that (a "sort of"="kind of" crow)
      > next to it)
      >
      > >
      > > > What is a "karter" and a "beplading"?
      > >
      > > "karter" is "charter", it is ultimately derived from Latin,
      > through
      > > Norman French. I could only find it used in German all other
      > > languages had something different and/or more complicated.
      > > Ger. "Chartern", Dut. "handvest", Nor. "privilegium"
      > > or "forfatningsdokument", Dan. "oprettelsesdokument".
      >
      > I don't think you should change ch- into k- when none of the core
      > langs use it, since I think fs should be a primarily written/read
      > language...


      "Charter" is derived from "chartula" from the same Latin root
      as "card", and means roughly a small piece of paper. The same root
      gives rise to Dut."kaart" and Ger."Karte", so its not without
      precedent.
      Maybe something like "list of rights" would work better???


      > Also german seems to use "verfassung" and swedish fo"rfattning, so
      > maybe for-fating (faten would mean something like "grip")
      >
      > > "beplading" is "settlement/colony". Dut. "bepaling"
      > Dan. "boplads".
      > > Its a mix of the two, but on second thoughts something else may
      be
      > > better?
      >
      > It looks weird to mix words like that, ignoring basic etymology,
      >
      > It seems that be- paling comes from words like be- and pal* meaning
      > pole, also it seems to be "settlement" as in "agreement", but I am
      > not sure on that...
      >
      > The danish word is literally dwelling-place.
      >
      > Maybe it could be translated as something like:
      > woon-plats woon-sted (from the german/dutch words like wohnen)
      > instead.. =S

      I see your point something like "koloni" would be better. I would
      maybe go for your "seteling", as I prefer using germanic roots were
      possible.


      > > > From which core lang(s) are these words?
      > > > I can read german and dutch "reasonably", but I am not very
      good
      > at
      > > > the languages...
      > > > "Skont" is "although"? Maybe "tu" would be a better word
      > than "na".
      > > > Reckon that'd be simpler to learn. =S
      > > > I don't really think there is a use for "na".
      > > > In most cases, I guess words like "áfter" and "tu" would be
      > > > sufficient...
      > >
      > > In my prepositional system "na" means "to, towards, in the
      > direction
      > > of". It was derived from Ger. "nach", Dut. "naar" and
      > Frisian "nei".
      > > It also functions as a kind of auxilliary prepostion to show
      > movement
      > > towards, which is a little difficult in Folkspraak that has no
      > cases.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > "de mus lop op de tafel" = "the mouse runs on the table"
      > > "de mus lop na op de tafel" = "the mouse runs on to the table"
      > >
      > > I used "fra" in the same way, to show movement (away) from.
      > >
      > > "de mus lop fra op de tafel" = "the mouse runs from on/off of the
      > > table"
      > >
      > > I tend to reserve "tu" to show the dative case/indirect object.
      > >
      > > "ik givde de bok tu de man" = "I gave the book to the man"
      > >
      > Hmmm, slightly difficult. The only reason I have for nach (or
      > something, probably cognate to nigh) is to explain the word nach-
      > deel meaning "disadvantage"

      I don't think this is to difficult or unusual the usual way of
      saying "I fly to Berlin" for example is Dut."Ik vlieg naar Berlijn"
      and Ger."Ich fliege nach Berlin", which is why I originally
      used "na". The problem I think we have is that the Germanic languages
      have many cognates for prepositions, but they became used very
      idiomatically as the older case systems broke down and do not always
      have exactly the same meaning in each language.

      > > Going back to my original word for crooked/slanted "skún" this
      was
      > > derived from Dut. "schuin", Fri. "skean", Dan. "skaane" and
      > > Nor. "skåne".

      Maybe "skaun", which also has an "a" like the Scandivavian words, but
      retains roughly the Dutch pronounciation.

      > Uh-hmm... Allright
      >
      > >
      > > > Oh well...
      > > >
      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "tungol65" <rdw.young@n...>
      > > wrote:
      > > > > Hello All,
      > > > >
      > > > > Things seem a little quiet around here!. It's been a while
      > since
      > > I
      > > > > posted anything, but over the last few days I've got back
      into
      > my
      > > > > Folkspraak and other language interests. I though it might be
      > a
      > > > good
      > > > > idea to combine my interest in Folkspraak and heraldry. So
      > I've
      > > > > created a few pages on heraldry, written in Folkspraak.
      > Hopefully
      > > > it
      > > > > may encourage other to create some pages of their own about
      > any
      > > > > hobbies or interests, they may want to share. The idea is to
      > > > enable
      > > > > us to regularly read and understand Folkspraak, rather than
      it
      > > > being
      > > > > a bit sterile as I think it could become. The pages are at
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/fs1.html
      > > > >
      > > > > Note I use an accent to mark long vowels in my version or
      > > > Folkspraak.
      > > > > I welcome comment good or bad.
      > > > >
      > > > > Regards Robert
    • wakuran_wakaran
      ... it ... sense ... heavily ... as ... Flachgau, ... which are ... Gau was the ... I d guess that, I read something about it, but I wouldn t wanna explicitly
      Message 40 of 40 , Mar 19 9:30 AM
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        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Martin Gelter <gelter@v...> wrote:
        > At 19:22 18.03.2004 +0000, wakuran_wakaran wrote:
        > > > I agree, but "Gau" and "gea" are not archaic. I think if 2 or 3
        > > > Germanic languages out of the 8 or 9 being considered have a
        > >similar
        > > > word where the others have no cognate, we should consider it.
        > > >
        > >
        > >According to LEO dictionary, the word is [hist.], historical, and
        it
        > >doesn't seem to be applicable to district/region in the modern
        sense
        > >of the word... http://dict.leo.org
        >
        > Actually, the word is understandable, but unusual and today
        heavily
        > associated with the Third Reich, which was divided into "Gaue".
        > However , the word is sometimes part of the name of a region, such
        as
        > Thurgau or Chiemgau. The Austrian state of Salzburg consists of
        Flachgau,
        > Tennengau, Pongau, Pinzgau and Lungau (hope I didn't forget one),
        which are
        > not administrative, but geographical terms. AFAIR, originally a
        Gau was the
        > territory given to a count under Charlemagne.
        >

        I'd guess that, I read something about it, but I wouldn't wanna
        explicitly "mention the war" without it being necessary... @@

        > >Some of the more german-sounding words are
        > >der Bezirk, das Gebiet, der Stadtteil, die Gegend, der Bereich,
        die Stelle
        > >etc...
        > >Don't know exactly how these words are used...
        >
        > To me, Bezirk is exclusively an administrative district.
        >
        > Gebiet is usually an area or zone affected by something (as in
        > Kriegsgebiet, Überschwemmungsgebiet, Quellschutzgebiet,
        Rodungsgebiet,
        > Sperrgebiet, Herrschaftsgebiet).
        > However, I have to admit that a google search reveals quite a
        number of
        > different usages, such as "Rhein-Main-Gebiet", for which I would
        rather use
        > "Region".
        >
        > Stadtteil is a part of the city, without clear boundaries (other
        than Bezirk).
        >
        > Gegend is a relatively small area or region, probably containing
        only the
        > surrounding villages or towns, or, within a city, a couple of
        streets.
        > In contrast, a "Region" would normally refer to a largely area,
        possibly
        > with 50 or 100 km in diameter.
        >
        > Bereich would be rather unusual for a geographical area or
        administrative unit.
        >
        > Stelle means place, as in "An dieser Stelle stand einst eine
        römische Therme."
        >
        >
        > Martin

        Sta"lle means place in swedish as well...
        And in swedish " Instead of " is " ista"llet fo"r "
        Oh well, thank you for your help!
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