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Re: SV: SV: [folkspraak] Ideas??

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  • Daan Goedkoop
    ... Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from? They look about the same as the normal ones, and have been in use until one or two
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 21, 2004
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      Op woensdag 21 januari 2004 00:50, schreef Knutson:
      > The professor Kjell Aartun, in his publication "Runer I kulturhistorisk
      > sammenheng" presents his proof that the runes were originally of ancient
      > semittic origin and that many ancient runic inscriptions are written in
      > a semmittic language and are falsely deciphered in nordic languages.
      >
      > Anyhow, the proto Semitic alphabet (Aleph Beit) closely resembled runic
      > script in its form, and was later changed into the greek and latin
      > letters.

      Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from? They look about
      the same as the "normal" ones, and have been in use until one or two
      centuries ago.

      Daan.
    • Knutson
      Sorry, I never heard about the Hungarian runes. ... Fra: Daan Goedkoop [mailto:dgoedkoop@gmx.net] Sendt: 21. januar 2004 22:19 Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 21, 2004
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        Sorry, I never heard about the Hungarian runes.

        -----Opprinnelig melding-----
        Fra: Daan Goedkoop [mailto:dgoedkoop@...]
        Sendt: 21. januar 2004 22:19
        Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: Re: SV: SV: [folkspraak] Ideas??

        Op woensdag 21 januari 2004 00:50, schreef Knutson:
        > The professor Kjell Aartun, in his publication "Runer I
        kulturhistorisk
        > sammenheng" presents his proof that the runes were originally of
        ancient
        > semittic origin and that many ancient runic inscriptions are written
        in
        > a semmittic language and are falsely deciphered in nordic languages.
        >
        > Anyhow, the proto Semitic alphabet (Aleph Beit) closely resembled
        runic
        > script in its form, and was later changed into the greek and latin
        > letters.

        Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from? They look
        about
        the same as the "normal" ones, and have been in use until one or two
        centuries ago.

        Daan.


        Browse the draft word lists!
        http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

        Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/


        Yahoo! Groups Links

        To visit your group on the web, go to:
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      • wakuran_wakaran
        According to www.omniglot.com/writing : The Hungarian Runes(Székely Rovásírás) are derived from the Turkish Runes(Kök Turki)/(Orkhon) which probably were
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 21, 2004
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          According to www.omniglot.com/writing : The Hungarian Runes(Székely
          Rovásírás) are derived from the Turkish Runes(Kök Turki)/(Orkhon)
          which probably were derived from the Sogdian alphabet...

          There are similarities between the two scripts, but as a layman it
          is hard to tell whether they are due to coincidence or relation...
          >
          > Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from? They
          look about
          > the same as the "normal" ones, and have been in use until one or
          two
          > centuries ago.
          >
          > Daan.
        • wakuran_wakaran
          That s a true point, but I still think it is a far-fetched theory... I checked up a little on the theory, and it doesn t seem accepted by most professional
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 21, 2004
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            That's a true point, but I still think it is a far-fetched theory...
            I checked up a little on the theory,
            and it doesn't seem accepted by most professional runologists..
            Well, for myself, I don't have enough knowledge to tell if the
            theory is true or false, and you can claim that Aartun has managed
            to interpret these runic stones while professional runologists
            haven't.. Oh well...

            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Knutson" <asm.knut@c...> wrote:
            > That you have not heard it before does not prove that it is
            invalid.
            > Rather that you are not up to date in this. Is not that true?
            >
            > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
            > Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@w...]
            > Sendt: 21. januar 2004 01:16
            > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
            > Emne: Re: SV: SV: [folkspraak] Ideas??
            >
            > I don't know... I haven't heard that theory from anywhere else.
            > It seems unlikely, too.. That is all I say..
            >
          • Knutson
            You may well be right! I believe most researchers disagree with Aartun. Professor Kjell Aartun is a researc linguist with 40 years experience. His book is:
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 22, 2004
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              You may well be right!
              I believe most researchers disagree with Aartun.
              Professor Kjell Aartun is a researc linguist with 40 years experience.
              His book is:
              Runer i kulturhistorisk sammenheng.
              PAX forlag a/s Oslo 1994
              ISBN 82-530-1677-8

              -----Opprinnelig melding-----
              Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@...]
              Sendt: 22. januar 2004 04:36
              Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
              Emne: Re: SV: SV: SV: [folkspraak] Ideas??

              That's a true point, but I still think it is a far-fetched theory...
              I checked up a little on the theory,
              and it doesn't seem accepted by most professional runologists..
              Well, for myself, I don't have enough knowledge to tell if the
              theory is true or false, and you can claim that Aartun has managed
              to interpret these runic stones while professional runologists
              haven't.. Oh well...

              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Knutson" <asm.knut@c...> wrote:
              > That you have not heard it before does not prove that it is
              invalid.
              > Rather that you are not up to date in this. Is not that true?
              >
              > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
              > Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@w...]
              > Sendt: 21. januar 2004 01:16
              > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
              > Emne: Re: SV: SV: [folkspraak] Ideas??
              >
              > I don't know... I haven't heard that theory from anywhere else.
              > It seems unlikely, too.. That is all I say..
              >



              Browse the draft word lists!
              http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

              Browse Folkspraak-related links!
              http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/


              Yahoo! Groups Links

              To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/

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            • Knutson
              Hungarian runes may be connected to Bulgarian. The neck-ring of gold found in Pietroassa was inscribed in old norse language with the 24 runes FUTHARK of elder
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 22, 2004
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                Hungarian runes may be connected to Bulgarian. The neck-ring of gold
                found in Pietroassa was inscribed in old norse language with the 24
                runes FUTHARK of elder germanic script. It said GUTAN IOWI HAILAG,
                probably meaning "The Goths are sanctified to IOWI".

                -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@...]
                Sendt: 22. januar 2004 04:25
                Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                Emne: [folkspraak] Hungarian Runes

                According to www.omniglot.com/writing : The Hungarian Runes(Székely
                Rovásírás) are derived from the Turkish Runes(Kök Turki)/(Orkhon)
                which probably were derived from the Sogdian alphabet...

                There are similarities between the two scripts, but as a layman it
                is hard to tell whether they are due to coincidence or relation...
                >
                > Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from? They
                look about
                > the same as the "normal" ones, and have been in use until one or
                two
                > centuries ago.
                >
                > Daan.


                Browse the draft word lists!
                http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
                http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

                Browse Folkspraak-related links!
                http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/



                Yahoo! Groups Links

                To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • wakuran_wakaran
                According to http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/rovas/rovas.htm (the 1st site I found =S ) the Pietroassa ring stems from 300-400 AD. It seems unclear when and how
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 22, 2004
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                  According to http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/rovas/rovas.htm (the 1st
                  site I found =S ) the Pietroassa ring stems from 300-400 AD.
                  It seems unclear when and how the hungarian runes, the "rovas" were
                  created.
                  What are the Bulgarian runes? What are you referring to?

                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Knutson" <asm.knut@c...> wrote:
                  > Hungarian runes may be connected to Bulgarian. The neck-ring of
                  gold
                  > found in Pietroassa was inscribed in old norse language with the 24
                  > runes FUTHARK of elder germanic script. It said GUTAN IOWI HAILAG,
                  > probably meaning "The Goths are sanctified to IOWI".
                  >
                  > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                  > Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@w...]
                  > Sendt: 22. januar 2004 04:25
                  > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                  > Emne: [folkspraak] Hungarian Runes
                  >
                  > According to www.omniglot.com/writing : The Hungarian Runes
                  (Székely
                  > Rovásírás) are derived from the Turkish Runes(Kök Turki)/(Orkhon)
                  > which probably were derived from the Sogdian alphabet...
                  >
                  > There are similarities between the two scripts, but as a layman it
                  > is hard to tell whether they are due to coincidence or relation...
                  > >
                  > > Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from?
                  They
                  > look about
                  > > the same as the "normal" ones, and have been in use until one or
                  > two
                  > > centuries ago.
                  > >
                  > > Daan.
                • wakuran_wakaran
                  According to the site: http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/writing_systems/ According to my knowledge, there are three theories about the origins of
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 22, 2004
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                    According to the site:

                    http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/writing_systems/

                    According to my knowledge, there are three theories about the
                    origins of the `Hungarian runes':

                    1. `Hungarian runes' have developed from the Turkish runes.´

                    2. They are direct descendants of Phoenician writing.

                    3. They are derived from the Viking runes.

                    (The site doesn't claim that any of these theories is more plausible
                    than the others.)
                  • Knutson
                    I just mean that Pietroassa is in Bulgaria, and I thus referred to the runes on the ring as Bulgarian. I should like to learn more about the Hungarian runes.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 23, 2004
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                      I just mean that Pietroassa is in Bulgaria, and I thus referred to the
                      runes on the ring as Bulgarian. I should like to learn more about the
                      Hungarian runes. Do they have anything to do with the Wulfia Bible? I
                      have read that Wulfia created his alphabet from the runes.

                      -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                      Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@...]
                      Sendt: 22. januar 2004 23:56
                      Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                      Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Hungarian Runes

                      According to http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/rovas/rovas.htm (the 1st
                      site I found =S ) the Pietroassa ring stems from 300-400 AD.
                      It seems unclear when and how the hungarian runes, the "rovas" were
                      created.
                      What are the Bulgarian runes? What are you referring to?

                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Knutson" <asm.knut@c...> wrote:
                      > Hungarian runes may be connected to Bulgarian. The neck-ring of
                      gold
                      > found in Pietroassa was inscribed in old norse language with the 24
                      > runes FUTHARK of elder germanic script. It said GUTAN IOWI HAILAG,
                      > probably meaning "The Goths are sanctified to IOWI".
                      >
                      > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                      > Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@w...]
                      > Sendt: 22. januar 2004 04:25
                      > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                      > Emne: [folkspraak] Hungarian Runes
                      >
                      > According to www.omniglot.com/writing : The Hungarian Runes
                      (Székely
                      > Rovásírás) are derived from the Turkish Runes(Kök Turki)/(Orkhon)
                      > which probably were derived from the Sogdian alphabet...
                      >
                      > There are similarities between the two scripts, but as a layman it
                      > is hard to tell whether they are due to coincidence or relation...
                      > >
                      > > Do you accidentally know where the Hungarian runes come from?
                      They
                      > look about
                      > > the same as the "normal" ones, and have been in use until one or
                      > two
                      > > centuries ago.
                      > >
                      > > Daan.



                      Browse the draft word lists!
                      http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
                      http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

                      Browse Folkspraak-related links!
                      http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/



                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Knutson
                      Interesting! Thanks! ... Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@writeme.com] Sendt: 23. januar 2004 02:23 Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com Emne: [folkspraak] More
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 23, 2004
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                        Interesting!
                        Thanks!

                        -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                        Fra: wakuran_wakaran [mailto:hakans@...]
                        Sendt: 23. januar 2004 02:23
                        Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                        Emne: [folkspraak] More about Hungarian Runes

                        According to the site:

                        http://www.usu.edu/anthro/origins_of_writing/writing_systems/

                        According to my knowledge, there are three theories about the
                        origins of the `Hungarian runes':

                        1. `Hungarian runes' have developed from the Turkish runes.´

                        2. They are direct descendants of Phoenician writing.

                        3. They are derived from the Viking runes.

                        (The site doesn't claim that any of these theories is more plausible
                        than the others.)


                        Browse the draft word lists!
                        http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
                        http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

                        Browse Folkspraak-related links!
                        http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/



                        Yahoo! Groups Links

                        To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/

                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        folkspraak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • wakuran_wakaran
                        So that s what you mean with bulgarian runes? Hungarian runes probably doesn t have much to do with Wulfilas gothic alphabet..
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 26, 2004
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                          So that's what you mean with bulgarian runes?
                          Hungarian runes probably doesn't have much to do with Wulfilas
                          gothic alphabet..
                          http://www.omniglot.com/writing/gothic.htm

                          " Origin
                          Gothic was originally written with a Runic alphabet about which
                          little is known. One theory of the origins of Runes is that they
                          were invented by the Goths, but this is impossible to prove as very
                          few inscriptions of writing in Gothic runes survive.

                          The Gothic alphabet was invented around middle the 4th century AD by
                          Bishop Wulfila (311-383 AD), the religious leader of the Visigoths,
                          to provide his people with a written language and a means of reading
                          his translation of the Bible. It is based on the Greek alphabet,
                          with some extra letters from the Latin and Runic alphabets. "

                          The alphabet includes some numeral signs, that have unclear origin.
                          Most of the letters themselves could be clearly traced,
                          a few look like greco-latin letters with different phonetic value.

                          Since the gothic alphabet is clearly (mostly) based on greek
                          writing, the germanic runes most plausibly originally derived from
                          greco-latin writing, and the hungarian runes have unclear origin, it
                          is not very likely that the gothic alphabet has something to do with
                          hungarian runes.

                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Knutson" <asm.knut@c...> wrote:
                          > I just mean that Pietroassa is in Bulgaria, and I thus referred to
                          the
                          > runes on the ring as Bulgarian. I should like to learn more about
                          the
                          > Hungarian runes. Do they have anything to do with the Wulfia
                          Bible? I
                          > have read that Wulfia created his alphabet from the runes.
                          >
                        • seb_olof
                          At this site there are three fonts in the extended 16-letter one: http://www.runristare.se/vikingtips/runfonter/runfonter.html a bit down to the right of the
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 19, 2004
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                            At this site there are three fonts in the extended 16-letter one:
                            http://www.runristare.se/vikingtips/runfonter/runfonter.html

                            a bit down to the right of the page you'll find:

                            Hämta "Runsten" här >>>
                            Hämta "Runbrev" här >>>
                            Hämta "Runhake" här >>>

                            /seb_olof
                          • wakuran_wakaran
                            ... Hello, Seb! I saw the fonts. Since the runes now have been implemented in Unicode, I guess this system now is a little outdated for web usage, but they
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 19, 2004
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                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "seb_olof" <maizecrop@h...> wrote:
                              > At this site there are three fonts in the extended 16-letter one:
                              > http://www.runristare.se/vikingtips/runfonter/runfonter.html
                              >
                              > a bit down to the right of the page you'll find:
                              >
                              > Hämta "Runsten" här >>>
                              > Hämta "Runbrev" här >>>
                              > Hämta "Runhake" här >>>
                              >
                              > /seb_olof

                              Hello, Seb! I saw the fonts.
                              Since the runes now have been implemented in Unicode,
                              I guess this system now is a little outdated for web usage,
                              but they look good. Good for personal writing...
                              There are some other runic fonts that could be d/l:ed, too,
                              such as "Gullskoen"

                              http://www.unicode.org/charts/collation/chart_Runic.html
                              http://www.unicode.org/versions/bookmarks.html

                              Hopefully the Unicode could be better implemented for web browsers
                              in the future, and there would be more choice of runic fonts to
                              download and such...
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