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SV: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!

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  • Knutson
    Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with the text as presented. Åsmund ... Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@runbox.com] Sendt: 1.
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
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      Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with the
      text as presented.
      Åsmund

      -----Opprinnelig melding-----
      Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
      Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 01:35
      Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!

      Um...so what are you saying? That the corrections were too
      Deutsch/Dutch or that my version is too Deutsch/Dutch? Do you want to
      go thr'u' and say which bits are not true/to Deutsch/Dutch as far as
      you're concerned. Oh, and thanks Don for the comments even if they are
      a little Deutsch/Dutch biased as Åsmund seems to think - can you tell
      me what the various languages use instead of the forms I use? - i.e.
      instead of buugende and stuff... Thanks all.


      On Monday, Sep 29, 2003, at 21:39 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:

      > I think your suggestions to what is good Germanic is further from the
      > truth than what was first written here. It seems to me that the
      Germans
      > and Dutch are way out and that the Scandinavians and English are on
      the
      > right track.
      >
      > Yet, this "Germanic" insistence seems to get the upper hand. Remember
      > though, that our aim is to communicate, not to present a Teutonic,
      > nationalistic Germanic superhuman lingua.
      >
      > Get into line! Try to construct something that is legible to the
      world,
      > not something that fits some Teutonic dream.
      >
      > Åsmund.
      >
      > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
      > Fra: don_skov [mailto:c_h_skov@...]
      > Sendt: 29. september 2003 10:27
      > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > Emne: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
      >
      >
      > Nice, i will create a poll later today, thatr we may decide on which
      > text to use.
      > Because I have some spare time now, and becasue you asked me to i
      > will point out english elements of your folkspraak.
      >
      >> Now follows my text, with a literal english translation underneath:
      >>
      >> 1.Ond al di erd havd an tung ond an spraak.
      >>
      >> And all the earth had one tongue and one speech.
      >
      > al di erd-
      > 1. the article: in most germanig tounges the the article comes before
      > the adjective al- di al erd.
      >
      > 2. al is a very english word to use, in most other germanic languages
      > you would use something similar to the engslish word "whole"
      >
      >> 2.Ond als manen veegd fron di ost, dej finded an flat in di land ov
      >> siinar ond seted deer.
      >>
      >> And as men journeyed from the east, they found a plain in the land
      > of
      >> Shinar and settled there.
      >
      > ...,dej finded
      > 1. this word order is specifically english in all other germanic
      > tounges you would say in a sentence like that :"finded dej"
      >
      > ...di land ov shinar.
      > this way of saying is english in other germanic tounges yo would
      > say "di land Siinar"
      >
      >> 3. Ond dej saagd, an tu an ander, "kom, lat os maak ?mursteenen?,
      > ond
      >> brand dej vel-lik". Ond dej havd mursteen for steen ond teer for
      > mortel
      >> (morteer?!).
      >
      >> And they said, one to another, "come, let us make bricks, and bake
      > them
      >> well". And they had brick for stone and tar for mortar.
      >>
      >> 4. Ond dej saagd "kom, lat os buug an stad, met an torn detes top
      > skal
      >> rek di hemel, so dat os kan maak an naam for os ond nikt spreded ar
      >> oover di hel verld".
      >>
      >> And they said "come, let us build a city, with a tower its top
      > shall
      >> reach the heaven, so that we can make a name for ourselves and not
      >> spread be over the whole world".
      >
      > 1. the use of the word rek is very englsih in the other germanic
      > tounges it woudl require a "to" rek tu di hemel
      > 2. spreded ar. I would say ar spreded, the englsih original spread be
      > sounds old fashioned, i'm I right?
      >
      >
      >>
      >> 5. Men di her komd duun sean di stad ond di torn dat di manen var
      >> buugende.
      >>
      >> But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men
      > were
      >> building.
      >
      > var buugende. this form to be building only exists in englsih and no
      > other germanic language.
      >
      >>
      >> 6. Di her saagd "vif (maybe "if" or "ven" would be better?) als an
      > folk
      >> spraakende an tung dej hav beginnd doan diis, den netinng skal ar
      >> unmoogelik for dej"
      >> The Lord said "if as one people speaking one tongue they have begun
      > to
      >> do this, then nothing shall be impossible for them".
      >
      > sprakkende.. you can't you the present participle like that in other
      > germanic languages.
      >
      >
      >> 7. "Kom, lat os go ned ond forvirre dejes spraak so dat dej skal
      >> neforrstan an anannder"
      >>
      >> "Come, let us go down and confuse their speech so that they shall
      > not
      >> understand one another"
      >>
      >> 8. So di her spreded dej fron deer al oover di erd, ond dej spopd
      >> buugende di stad.
      >>
      >> So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and they
      >> stopped building the city.
      >
      > buugende.. again specific english use
      >
      >> 9. Dat ar varfor (?vatfor?) et var naamd babel – saak deer di her
      >> forvirrd di tung ov di hel verld. Fron deer di her spreded dej
      > oover di
      >> hel erd.
      >>
      >> That's why it was called Babel – because there the Lord confused
      > the
      >> tongue of the whole world. From there the Lord spead them over the
      >> whole earth.
      >
      > varfor. this is a direct translation of the englsih why, but in a
      > sentence like this why means therefore, in the other germanic
      > languages would use a form meaning therefore not why
      >
      >
      >
      > Browse the draft word lists!
      > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
      > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
      >
      > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
      > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > ---------------------~-->
      > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
      > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
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      > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
      > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/IYOolB/TM
      > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      > ~->
      >
      > Browse the draft word lists!
      > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
      > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
      >
      > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
      > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >



      Browse the draft word lists!
      http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
      http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

      Browse Folkspraak-related links!
      http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Xipirho
      No problem, but still - was it the original text or the comments that you were saying were too dutch/deutsch? I m just intrigued as to why you thaut it/they
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        No problem, but still - was it the original text or the comments that you were saying were too dutch/deutsch? I'm just intrigued as to why you thaut it/they was/were. Thanks. Roly.


        > Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with the
        > text as presented.
        > Åsmund
        >
        > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
        > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
        > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 01:35
        > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
        >
        > Um...so what are you saying? That the corrections were too
        > Deutsch/Dutch or that my version is too Deutsch/Dutch? Do you want to
        > go thr'u' and say which bits are not true/to Deutsch/Dutch as far as
        > you're concerned. Oh, and thanks Don for the comments even if they are
        > a little Deutsch/Dutch biased as Åsmund seems to think - can you tell
        > me what the various languages use instead of the forms I use? - i.e.
        > instead of buugende and stuff... Thanks all.
        >
        >
        > On Monday, Sep 29, 2003, at 21:39 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:
        >
        > > I think your suggestions to what is good Germanic is further from the
        > > truth than what was first written here. It seems to me that the
        > Germans
        > > and Dutch are way out and that the Scandinavians and English are on
        > the
        > > right track.
        > >
        > > Yet, this "Germanic" insistence seems to get the upper hand. Remember
        > > though, that our aim is to communicate, not to present a Teutonic,
        > > nationalistic Germanic superhuman lingua.
        > >
        > > Get into line! Try to construct something that is legible to the
        > world,
        > > not something that fits some Teutonic dream.
        > >
        > > Åsmund.
        > >
        > > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
        > > Fra: don_skov [mailto:c_h_skov@...]
        > > Sendt: 29. september 2003 10:27
        > > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > > Emne: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
        > >
        > >
        > > Nice, i will create a poll later today, thatr we may decide on which
        > > text to use.
        > > Because I have some spare time now, and becasue you asked me to i
        > > will point out english elements of your folkspraak.
        > >
        > >> Now follows my text, with a literal english translation underneath:
        > >>
        > >> 1.Ond al di erd havd an tung ond an spraak.
        > >>
        > >> And all the earth had one tongue and one speech.
        > >
        > > al di erd-
        > > 1. the article: in most germanig tounges the the article comes before
        > > the adjective al- di al erd.
        > >
        > > 2. al is a very english word to use, in most other germanic languages
        > > you would use something similar to the engslish word "whole"
        > >
        > >> 2.Ond als manen veegd fron di ost, dej finded an flat in di land ov
        > >> siinar ond seted deer.
        > >>
        > >> And as men journeyed from the east, they found a plain in the land
        > > of
        > >> Shinar and settled there.
        > >
        > > ...,dej finded
        > > 1. this word order is specifically english in all other germanic
        > > tounges you would say in a sentence like that :"finded dej"
        > >
        > > ...di land ov shinar.
        > > this way of saying is english in other germanic tounges yo would
        > > say "di land Siinar"
        > >
        > >> 3. Ond dej saagd, an tu an ander, "kom, lat os maak ?mursteenen?,
        > > ond
        > >> brand dej vel-lik". Ond dej havd mursteen for steen ond teer for
        > > mortel
        > >> (morteer?!).
        > >
        > >> And they said, one to another, "come, let us make bricks, and bake
        > > them
        > >> well". And they had brick for stone and tar for mortar.
        > >>
        > >> 4. Ond dej saagd "kom, lat os buug an stad, met an torn detes top
        > > skal
        > >> rek di hemel, so dat os kan maak an naam for os ond nikt spreded ar
        > >> oover di hel verld".
        > >>
        > >> And they said "come, let us build a city, with a tower its top
        > > shall
        > >> reach the heaven, so that we can make a name for ourselves and not
        > >> spread be over the whole world".
        > >
        > > 1. the use of the word rek is very englsih in the other germanic
        > > tounges it woudl require a "to" rek tu di hemel
        > > 2. spreded ar. I would say ar spreded, the englsih original spread be
        > > sounds old fashioned, i'm I right?
        > >
        > >
        > >>
        > >> 5. Men di her komd duun sean di stad ond di torn dat di manen var
        > >> buugende.
        > >>
        > >> But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men
        > > were
        > >> building.
        > >
        > > var buugende. this form to be building only exists in englsih and no
        > > other germanic language.
        > >
        > >>
        > >> 6. Di her saagd "vif (maybe "if" or "ven" would be better?) als an
        > > folk
        > >> spraakende an tung dej hav beginnd doan diis, den netinng skal ar
        > >> unmoogelik for dej"
        > >> The Lord said "if as one people speaking one tongue they have begun
        > > to
        > >> do this, then nothing shall be impossible for them".
        > >
        > > sprakkende.. you can't you the present participle like that in other
        > > germanic languages.
        > >
        > >
        > >> 7. "Kom, lat os go ned ond forvirre dejes spraak so dat dej skal
        > >> neforrstan an anannder"
        > >>
        > >> "Come, let us go down and confuse their speech so that they shall
        > > not
        > >> understand one another"
        > >>
        > >> 8. So di her spreded dej fron deer al oover di erd, ond dej spopd
        > >> buugende di stad.
        > >>
        > >> So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and they
        > >> stopped building the city.
        > >
        > > buugende.. again specific english use
        > >
        > >> 9. Dat ar varfor (?vatfor?) et var naamd babel – saak deer di her
        > >> forvirrd di tung ov di hel verld. Fron deer di her spreded dej
        > > oover di
        > >> hel erd.
        > >>
        > >> That's why it was called Babel – because there the Lord confused
        > > the
        > >> tongue of the whole world. From there the Lord spead them over the
        > >> whole earth.
        > >
        > > varfor. this is a direct translation of the englsih why, but in a
        > > sentence like this why means therefore, in the other germanic
        > > languages would use a form meaning therefore not why
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Browse the draft word lists!
        > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
        > >
        > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > > ---------------------~-->
        > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
        > > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
        > > Canada.
        > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
        > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/IYOolB/TM
        > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > ~->
        > >
        > > Browse the draft word lists!
        > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
        > >
        > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > Browse the draft word lists!
        > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
        >
        > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Browse the draft word lists!
        > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
        > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
        >
        > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
        > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
      • Knutson
        It was the comments. I thought the original text was fine. But after reconsideration I found the Comments good as well. I guess it was more the German &
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          It was the comments. I thought the original text was fine. But after
          reconsideration I found the Comments good as well. I guess it was more
          the "German & Dutch" overall look that hit me. But, of course, if we are
          to have an intergermanic language that is unavoidable.

          English contains a lot of latin derived words. And I understand well
          that these may be foreign to the intergermanic. But the "an-, auf-,
          ent-, ge-, emp-", etc and use of "z and shw" etc gives, maybe, a strange
          feeling to the scandinavians and the english? Anyway, you people do a
          marvellous job, and I feel more like a visitor that does nothing in
          comparison and that it is well for me to appreciate your efforts rather
          than criticising.

          So, please forgive me. I shall behave better in the future.

          Åsmund.

          -----Opprinnelig melding-----
          Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
          Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 11:50
          Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          Emne: Re: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!

          No problem, but still - was it the original text or the comments that
          you were saying were too dutch/deutsch? I'm just intrigued as to why you
          thaut it/they was/were. Thanks. Roly.


          > Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with the
          > text as presented.
          > Åsmund
          >
          > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
          > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
          > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 01:35
          > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
          >
          > Um...so what are you saying? That the corrections were too
          > Deutsch/Dutch or that my version is too Deutsch/Dutch? Do you want to

          > go thr'u' and say which bits are not true/to Deutsch/Dutch as far as
          > you're concerned. Oh, and thanks Don for the comments even if they are

          > a little Deutsch/Dutch biased as Åsmund seems to think - can you tell

          > me what the various languages use instead of the forms I use? - i.e.
          > instead of buugende and stuff... Thanks all.
          >
          >
          > On Monday, Sep 29, 2003, at 21:39 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:
          >
          > > I think your suggestions to what is good Germanic is further from
          the
          > > truth than what was first written here. It seems to me that the
          > Germans
          > > and Dutch are way out and that the Scandinavians and English are on
          > the
          > > right track.
          > >
          > > Yet, this "Germanic" insistence seems to get the upper hand.
          Remember
          > > though, that our aim is to communicate, not to present a Teutonic,
          > > nationalistic Germanic superhuman lingua.
          > >
          > > Get into line! Try to construct something that is legible to the
          > world,
          > > not something that fits some Teutonic dream.
          > >
          > > Åsmund.
          > >
          > > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
          > > Fra: don_skov [mailto:c_h_skov@...]
          > > Sendt: 29. september 2003 10:27
          > > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > > Emne: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
          > >
          > >
          > > Nice, i will create a poll later today, thatr we may decide on which
          > > text to use.
          > > Because I have some spare time now, and becasue you asked me to i
          > > will point out english elements of your folkspraak.
          > >
          > >> Now follows my text, with a literal english translation underneath:
          > >>
          > >> 1.Ond al di erd havd an tung ond an spraak.
          > >>
          > >> And all the earth had one tongue and one speech.
          > >
          > > al di erd-
          > > 1. the article: in most germanig tounges the the article comes
          before
          > > the adjective al- di al erd.
          > >
          > > 2. al is a very english word to use, in most other germanic
          languages
          > > you would use something similar to the engslish word "whole"
          > >
          > >> 2.Ond als manen veegd fron di ost, dej finded an flat in di land ov
          > >> siinar ond seted deer.
          > >>
          > >> And as men journeyed from the east, they found a plain in the land
          > > of
          > >> Shinar and settled there.
          > >
          > > ...,dej finded
          > > 1. this word order is specifically english in all other germanic
          > > tounges you would say in a sentence like that :"finded dej"
          > >
          > > ...di land ov shinar.
          > > this way of saying is english in other germanic tounges yo would
          > > say "di land Siinar"
          > >
          > >> 3. Ond dej saagd, an tu an ander, "kom, lat os maak ?mursteenen?,
          > > ond
          > >> brand dej vel-lik". Ond dej havd mursteen for steen ond teer for
          > > mortel
          > >> (morteer?!).
          > >
          > >> And they said, one to another, "come, let us make bricks, and bake
          > > them
          > >> well". And they had brick for stone and tar for mortar.
          > >>
          > >> 4. Ond dej saagd "kom, lat os buug an stad, met an torn detes top
          > > skal
          > >> rek di hemel, so dat os kan maak an naam for os ond nikt spreded ar
          > >> oover di hel verld".
          > >>
          > >> And they said "come, let us build a city, with a tower its top
          > > shall
          > >> reach the heaven, so that we can make a name for ourselves and not
          > >> spread be over the whole world".
          > >
          > > 1. the use of the word rek is very englsih in the other germanic
          > > tounges it woudl require a "to" rek tu di hemel
          > > 2. spreded ar. I would say ar spreded, the englsih original spread
          be
          > > sounds old fashioned, i'm I right?
          > >
          > >
          > >>
          > >> 5. Men di her komd duun sean di stad ond di torn dat di manen var
          > >> buugende.
          > >>
          > >> But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men
          > > were
          > >> building.
          > >
          > > var buugende. this form to be building only exists in englsih and no
          > > other germanic language.
          > >
          > >>
          > >> 6. Di her saagd "vif (maybe "if" or "ven" would be better?) als an
          > > folk
          > >> spraakende an tung dej hav beginnd doan diis, den netinng skal ar
          > >> unmoogelik for dej"
          > >> The Lord said "if as one people speaking one tongue they have begun
          > > to
          > >> do this, then nothing shall be impossible for them".
          > >
          > > sprakkende.. you can't you the present participle like that in other
          > > germanic languages.
          > >
          > >
          > >> 7. "Kom, lat os go ned ond forvirre dejes spraak so dat dej skal
          > >> neforrstan an anannder"
          > >>
          > >> "Come, let us go down and confuse their speech so that they shall
          > > not
          > >> understand one another"
          > >>
          > >> 8. So di her spreded dej fron deer al oover di erd, ond dej spopd
          > >> buugende di stad.
          > >>
          > >> So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and they
          > >> stopped building the city.
          > >
          > > buugende.. again specific english use
          > >
          > >> 9. Dat ar varfor (?vatfor?) et var naamd babel ? saak deer di her
          > >> forvirrd di tung ov di hel verld. Fron deer di her spreded dej
          > > oover di
          > >> hel erd.
          > >>
          > >> That's why it was called Babel ? because there the Lord confused
          > > the
          > >> tongue of the whole world. From there the Lord spead them over the
          > >> whole earth.
          > >
          > > varfor. this is a direct translation of the englsih why, but in a
          > > sentence like this why means therefore, in the other germanic
          > > languages would use a form meaning therefore not why
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Browse the draft word lists!
          > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          > >
          > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ---------------------~-->
          > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or
          Lexmark
          > > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
          > > Canada.
          > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
          > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/IYOolB/TM
          > >
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          > > ~->
          > >
          > > Browse the draft word lists!
          > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          > >
          > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Browse the draft word lists!
          > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          >
          > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Browse the draft word lists!
          > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
          >
          > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >


          Browse the draft word lists!
          http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
          http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

          Browse Folkspraak-related links!
          http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Xipirho
          Ah, OK. No problem at all about forgiveness (!) - I ve often said rash things in the past myself. You talk about an-, auf- ent-, ge-, emp- , etc and use of z
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Ah, OK. No problem at all about forgiveness (!) - I've often said rash things in the past myself. You talk about "an-, auf- ent-, ge-, emp-", etc and use of "z and shw" - I don't think any of those features appeared in my folkspraak tho', so I'm still a little bafled as to how it/the comments had a german-y look. I'm not trying to say what u sed was rong - I'm just interested as to what you were commenting on. Thanks lots. Roly.



            > It was the comments. I thought the original text was fine. But after
            > reconsideration I found the Comments good as well. I guess it was more
            > the "German & Dutch" overall look that hit me. But, of course, if we are
            > to have an intergermanic language that is unavoidable.
            >
            > English contains a lot of latin derived words. And I understand well
            > that these may be foreign to the intergermanic. But the "an-, auf-,
            > ent-, ge-, emp-", etc and use of "z and shw" etc gives, maybe, a strange
            > feeling to the scandinavians and the english? Anyway, you people do a
            > marvellous job, and I feel more like a visitor that does nothing in
            > comparison and that it is well for me to appreciate your efforts rather
            > than criticising.
            >
            > So, please forgive me. I shall behave better in the future.
            >
            > Åsmund.
            >
            > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
            > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
            > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 11:50
            > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
            > Emne: Re: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
            >
            > No problem, but still - was it the original text or the comments that
            > you were saying were too dutch/deutsch? I'm just intrigued as to why you
            > thaut it/they was/were. Thanks. Roly.
            >
            >
            > > Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with the
            > > text as presented.
            > > Åsmund
            > >
            > > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
            > > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
            > > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 01:35
            > > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
            > > Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
            > >
            > > Um...so what are you saying? That the corrections were too
            > > Deutsch/Dutch or that my version is too Deutsch/Dutch? Do you want to
            >
            > > go thr'u' and say which bits are not true/to Deutsch/Dutch as far as
            > > you're concerned. Oh, and thanks Don for the comments even if they are
            >
            > > a little Deutsch/Dutch biased as Åsmund seems to think - can you tell
            >
            > > me what the various languages use instead of the forms I use? - i.e.
            > > instead of buugende and stuff... Thanks all.
            > >
            > >
            > > On Monday, Sep 29, 2003, at 21:39 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:
            > >
            > > > I think your suggestions to what is good Germanic is further from
            > the
            > > > truth than what was first written here. It seems to me that the
            > > Germans
            > > > and Dutch are way out and that the Scandinavians and English are on
            > > the
            > > > right track.
            > > >
            > > > Yet, this "Germanic" insistence seems to get the upper hand.
            > Remember
            > > > though, that our aim is to communicate, not to present a Teutonic,
            > > > nationalistic Germanic superhuman lingua.
            > > >
            > > > Get into line! Try to construct something that is legible to the
            > > world,
            > > > not something that fits some Teutonic dream.
            > > >
            > > > Åsmund.
            > > >
            > > > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
            > > > Fra: don_skov [mailto:c_h_skov@...]
            > > > Sendt: 29. september 2003 10:27
            > > > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
            > > > Emne: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Nice, i will create a poll later today, thatr we may decide on which
            > > > text to use.
            > > > Because I have some spare time now, and becasue you asked me to i
            > > > will point out english elements of your folkspraak.
            > > >
            > > >> Now follows my text, with a literal english translation underneath:
            > > >>
            > > >> 1.Ond al di erd havd an tung ond an spraak.
            > > >>
            > > >> And all the earth had one tongue and one speech.
            > > >
            > > > al di erd-
            > > > 1. the article: in most germanig tounges the the article comes
            > before
            > > > the adjective al- di al erd.
            > > >
            > > > 2. al is a very english word to use, in most other germanic
            > languages
            > > > you would use something similar to the engslish word "whole"
            > > >
            > > >> 2.Ond als manen veegd fron di ost, dej finded an flat in di land ov
            > > >> siinar ond seted deer.
            > > >>
            > > >> And as men journeyed from the east, they found a plain in the land
            > > > of
            > > >> Shinar and settled there.
            > > >
            > > > ...,dej finded
            > > > 1. this word order is specifically english in all other germanic
            > > > tounges you would say in a sentence like that :"finded dej"
            > > >
            > > > ...di land ov shinar.
            > > > this way of saying is english in other germanic tounges yo would
            > > > say "di land Siinar"
            > > >
            > > >> 3. Ond dej saagd, an tu an ander, "kom, lat os maak ?mursteenen?,
            > > > ond
            > > >> brand dej vel-lik". Ond dej havd mursteen for steen ond teer for
            > > > mortel
            > > >> (morteer?!).
            > > >
            > > >> And they said, one to another, "come, let us make bricks, and bake
            > > > them
            > > >> well". And they had brick for stone and tar for mortar.
            > > >>
            > > >> 4. Ond dej saagd "kom, lat os buug an stad, met an torn detes top
            > > > skal
            > > >> rek di hemel, so dat os kan maak an naam for os ond nikt spreded ar
            > > >> oover di hel verld".
            > > >>
            > > >> And they said "come, let us build a city, with a tower its top
            > > > shall
            > > >> reach the heaven, so that we can make a name for ourselves and not
            > > >> spread be over the whole world".
            > > >
            > > > 1. the use of the word rek is very englsih in the other germanic
            > > > tounges it woudl require a "to" rek tu di hemel
            > > > 2. spreded ar. I would say ar spreded, the englsih original spread
            > be
            > > > sounds old fashioned, i'm I right?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >>
            > > >> 5. Men di her komd duun sean di stad ond di torn dat di manen var
            > > >> buugende.
            > > >>
            > > >> But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men
            > > > were
            > > >> building.
            > > >
            > > > var buugende. this form to be building only exists in englsih and no
            > > > other germanic language.
            > > >
            > > >>
            > > >> 6. Di her saagd "vif (maybe "if" or "ven" would be better?) als an
            > > > folk
            > > >> spraakende an tung dej hav beginnd doan diis, den netinng skal ar
            > > >> unmoogelik for dej"
            > > >> The Lord said "if as one people speaking one tongue they have begun
            > > > to
            > > >> do this, then nothing shall be impossible for them".
            > > >
            > > > sprakkende.. you can't you the present participle like that in other
            > > > germanic languages.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >> 7. "Kom, lat os go ned ond forvirre dejes spraak so dat dej skal
            > > >> neforrstan an anannder"
            > > >>
            > > >> "Come, let us go down and confuse their speech so that they shall
            > > > not
            > > >> understand one another"
            > > >>
            > > >> 8. So di her spreded dej fron deer al oover di erd, ond dej spopd
            > > >> buugende di stad.
            > > >>
            > > >> So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and they
            > > >> stopped building the city.
            > > >
            > > > buugende.. again specific english use
            > > >
            > > >> 9. Dat ar varfor (?vatfor?) et var naamd babel ? saak deer di her
            > > >> forvirrd di tung ov di hel verld. Fron deer di her spreded dej
            > > > oover di
            > > >> hel erd.
            > > >>
            > > >> That's why it was called Babel ? because there the Lord confused
            > > > the
            > > >> tongue of the whole world. From there the Lord spead them over the
            > > >> whole earth.
            > > >
            > > > varfor. this is a direct translation of the englsih why, but in a
            > > > sentence like this why means therefore, in the other germanic
            > > > languages would use a form meaning therefore not why
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Browse the draft word lists!
            > > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            > > >
            > > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > > ---------------------~-->
            > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or
            > Lexmark
            > > > Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
            > > > Canada.
            > > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
            > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/IYOolB/TM
            > > >
            > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
            > > > ~->
            > > >
            > > > Browse the draft word lists!
            > > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            > > >
            > > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Browse the draft word lists!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            > >
            > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Browse the draft word lists!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            > >
            > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > Browse the draft word lists!
            > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            >
            > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Browse the draft word lists!
            > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
            > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
            >
            > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
            > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Knutson
            I just re-read your corrections and feel confused as to why I reacted as I did. As you say, you did not in your text use the german-y an-, -ent etc . Maybe my
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              I just re-read your corrections and feel confused as to why I reacted as
              I did. As you say, you did not in your text use the german-y "an-, -ent
              etc". Maybe my fear is that Folkspraak may end up german-y. The text is
              very easy to read as it is.

              -----Opprinnelig melding-----
              Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
              Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 15:50
              Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
              Emne: Re: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!

              Ah, OK. No problem at all about forgiveness (!) - I've often said rash
              things in the past myself. You talk about "an-, auf- ent-, ge-, emp-",
              etc and use of "z and shw" - I don't think any of those features
              appeared in my folkspraak tho', so I'm still a little bafled as to how
              it/the comments had a german-y look. I'm not trying to say what u sed
              was rong - I'm just interested as to what you were commenting on. Thanks
              lots. Roly.



              > It was the comments. I thought the original text was fine. But after
              > reconsideration I found the Comments good as well. I guess it was more
              > the "German & Dutch" overall look that hit me. But, of course, if we
              are
              > to have an intergermanic language that is unavoidable.
              >
              > English contains a lot of latin derived words. And I understand well
              > that these may be foreign to the intergermanic. But the "an-, auf-,
              > ent-, ge-, emp-", etc and use of "z and shw" etc gives, maybe, a
              strange
              > feeling to the scandinavians and the english? Anyway, you people do a
              > marvellous job, and I feel more like a visitor that does nothing in
              > comparison and that it is well for me to appreciate your efforts
              rather
              > than criticising.
              >
              > So, please forgive me. I shall behave better in the future.
              >
              > Åsmund.
              >
              > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
              > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
              > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 11:50
              > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
              > Emne: Re: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
              >
              > No problem, but still - was it the original text or the comments that
              > you were saying were too dutch/deutsch? I'm just intrigued as to why
              you
              > thaut it/they was/were. Thanks. Roly.
              >
              >
              > > Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with
              the
              > > text as presented.
              > > Åsmund
              > >
              > > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
              > > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
              > > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 01:35
              > > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
              > > Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
              > >
              > > Um...so what are you saying? That the corrections were too
              > > Deutsch/Dutch or that my version is too Deutsch/Dutch? Do you want
              to
              >
              > > go thr'u' and say which bits are not true/to Deutsch/Dutch as far as

              > > you're concerned. Oh, and thanks Don for the comments even if they
              are
              >
              > > a little Deutsch/Dutch biased as Åsmund seems to think - can you
              tell
              >
              > > me what the various languages use instead of the forms I use? - i.e.

              > > instead of buugende and stuff... Thanks all.
              > >
              > >
              > > On Monday, Sep 29, 2003, at 21:39 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:
              > >
              > > > I think your suggestions to what is good Germanic is further from
              > the
              > > > truth than what was first written here. It seems to me that the
              > > Germans
              > > > and Dutch are way out and that the Scandinavians and English are
              on
              > > the
              > > > right track.
              > > >
              > > > Yet, this "Germanic" insistence seems to get the upper hand.
              > Remember
              > > > though, that our aim is to communicate, not to present a Teutonic,
              > > > nationalistic Germanic superhuman lingua.
              > > >
              > > > Get into line! Try to construct something that is legible to the
              > > world,
              > > > not something that fits some Teutonic dream.
              > > >
              > > > Åsmund.
              > > >
              > > > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
              > > > Fra: don_skov [mailto:c_h_skov@...]
              > > > Sendt: 29. september 2003 10:27
              > > > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Emne: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Nice, i will create a poll later today, thatr we may decide on
              which
              > > > text to use.
              > > > Because I have some spare time now, and becasue you asked me to i
              > > > will point out english elements of your folkspraak.
              > > >
              > > >> Now follows my text, with a literal english translation
              underneath:
              > > >>
              > > >> 1.Ond al di erd havd an tung ond an spraak.
              > > >>
              > > >> And all the earth had one tongue and one speech.
              > > >
              > > > al di erd-
              > > > 1. the article: in most germanig tounges the the article comes
              > before
              > > > the adjective al- di al erd.
              > > >
              > > > 2. al is a very english word to use, in most other germanic
              > languages
              > > > you would use something similar to the engslish word "whole"
              > > >
              > > >> 2.Ond als manen veegd fron di ost, dej finded an flat in di land
              ov
              > > >> siinar ond seted deer.
              > > >>
              > > >> And as men journeyed from the east, they found a plain in the
              land
              > > > of
              > > >> Shinar and settled there.
              > > >
              > > > ...,dej finded
              > > > 1. this word order is specifically english in all other germanic
              > > > tounges you would say in a sentence like that :"finded dej"
              > > >
              > > > ...di land ov shinar.
              > > > this way of saying is english in other germanic tounges yo would
              > > > say "di land Siinar"
              > > >
              > > >> 3. Ond dej saagd, an tu an ander, "kom, lat os maak ?mursteenen?,
              > > > ond
              > > >> brand dej vel-lik". Ond dej havd mursteen for steen ond teer for
              > > > mortel
              > > >> (morteer?!).
              > > >
              > > >> And they said, one to another, "come, let us make bricks, and
              bake
              > > > them
              > > >> well". And they had brick for stone and tar for mortar.
              > > >>
              > > >> 4. Ond dej saagd "kom, lat os buug an stad, met an torn detes top
              > > > skal
              > > >> rek di hemel, so dat os kan maak an naam for os ond nikt spreded
              ar
              > > >> oover di hel verld".
              > > >>
              > > >> And they said "come, let us build a city, with a tower its top
              > > > shall
              > > >> reach the heaven, so that we can make a name for ourselves and
              not
              > > >> spread be over the whole world".
              > > >
              > > > 1. the use of the word rek is very englsih in the other germanic
              > > > tounges it woudl require a "to" rek tu di hemel
              > > > 2. spreded ar. I would say ar spreded, the englsih original spread
              > be
              > > > sounds old fashioned, i'm I right?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >>
              > > >> 5. Men di her komd duun sean di stad ond di torn dat di manen var
              > > >> buugende.
              > > >>
              > > >> But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men
              > > > were
              > > >> building.
              > > >
              > > > var buugende. this form to be building only exists in englsih and
              no
              > > > other germanic language.
              > > >
              > > >>
              > > >> 6. Di her saagd "vif (maybe "if" or "ven" would be better?) als
              an
              > > > folk
              > > >> spraakende an tung dej hav beginnd doan diis, den netinng skal ar
              > > >> unmoogelik for dej"
              > > >> The Lord said "if as one people speaking one tongue they have
              begun
              > > > to
              > > >> do this, then nothing shall be impossible for them".
              > > >
              > > > sprakkende.. you can't you the present participle like that in
              other
              > > > germanic languages.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >> 7. "Kom, lat os go ned ond forvirre dejes spraak so dat dej skal
              > > >> neforrstan an anannder"
              > > >>
              > > >> "Come, let us go down and confuse their speech so that they shall
              > > > not
              > > >> understand one another"
              > > >>
              > > >> 8. So di her spreded dej fron deer al oover di erd, ond dej spopd
              > > >> buugende di stad.
              > > >>
              > > >> So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and
              they
              > > >> stopped building the city.
              > > >
              > > > buugende.. again specific english use
              > > >
              > > >> 9. Dat ar varfor (?vatfor?) et var naamd babel ? saak deer di her
              > > >> forvirrd di tung ov di hel verld. Fron deer di her spreded dej
              > > > oover di
              > > >> hel erd.
              > > >>
              > > >> That's why it was called Babel ? because there the Lord confused
              > > > the
              > > >> tongue of the whole world. From there the Lord spead them over
              the
              > > >> whole earth.
              > > >
              > > > varfor. this is a direct translation of the englsih why, but in a
              > > > sentence like this why means therefore, in the other germanic
              > > > languages would use a form meaning therefore not why
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Browse the draft word lists!
              > > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              > > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
              > > >
              > > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
              > > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
              > > >
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              > > >
              > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
              > > > ~->
              > > >
              > > > Browse the draft word lists!
              > > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              > > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
              > > >
              > > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
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              > > >
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              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Browse the draft word lists!
              > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
              > >
              > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
              > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Browse the draft word lists!
              > > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              > > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
              > >
              > > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
              > > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > Browse the draft word lists!
              > http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
              >
              > Browse Folkspraak-related links!
              > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Browse the draft word lists!
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              > http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
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              > http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
              >
              >
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              >
              >


              Browse the draft word lists!
              http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
              http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html

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              http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/


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            • Xipirho
              Heheh. No worries. Must ve been a mental lapse! :-). I agree that FS shouldnt be too german-y, but i spose they are the largest group of germanic speakers in
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Heheh. No worries. Must've been a mental lapse! :-). I agree that FS
                shouldnt be too german-y, but i spose they are the largest group of
                germanic speakers in europe, so german should certainly have
                influence... actually, do you know how many scandinavians (i.e. swedes,
                danes and norwegains) there are and how many germans there are? I'll
                have to find out - the CIA world fact book wil have the data. I spose
                size of pop. shouldnt be TOO important tho' because it can always
                change - for instance what if swedes started multiplying hugely and
                overtook germany in pop. (!!!) - would we change FS to be more swedish?
                i think not...


                On Wednesday, Oct 1, 2003, at 15:12 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:

                > I just re-read your corrections and feel confused as to why I reacted
                > as
                > I did. As you say, you did not in your text use the german-y "an-, -ent
                > etc". Maybe my fear is that Folkspraak may end up german-y. The text is
                > very easy to read as it is.
                >
                > -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                > Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
                > Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 15:50
                > Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                > Emne: Re: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
                >
                > Ah, OK. No problem at all about forgiveness (!) - I've often said rash
                > things in the past myself. You talk about "an-, auf- ent-, ge-, emp-",
                > etc and use of "z and shw" - I don't think any of those features
                > appeared in my folkspraak tho', so I'm still a little bafled as to how
                > it/the comments had a german-y look. I'm not trying to say what u sed
                > was rong - I'm just interested as to what you were commenting on.
                > Thanks
                > lots. Roly.
                >
                >
                >
                >> It was the comments. I thought the original text was fine. But after
                >> reconsideration I found the Comments good as well. I guess it was more
                >> the "German & Dutch" overall look that hit me. But, of course, if we
                > are
                >> to have an intergermanic language that is unavoidable.
                >>
                >> English contains a lot of latin derived words. And I understand well
                >> that these may be foreign to the intergermanic. But the "an-, auf-,
                >> ent-, ge-, emp-", etc and use of "z and shw" etc gives, maybe, a
                > strange
                >> feeling to the scandinavians and the english? Anyway, you people do a
                >> marvellous job, and I feel more like a visitor that does nothing in
                >> comparison and that it is well for me to appreciate your efforts
                > rather
                >> than criticising.
                >>
                >> So, please forgive me. I shall behave better in the future.
                >>
                >> Åsmund.
                >>
                >> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                >> Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
                >> Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 11:50
                >> Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                >> Emne: Re: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
                >>
                >> No problem, but still - was it the original text or the comments that
                >> you were saying were too dutch/deutsch? I'm just intrigued as to why
                > you
                >> thaut it/they was/were. Thanks. Roly.
                >>
                >>
                >>> Åsmund is sorry about his comments. On afterthought he agrees with
                > the
                >>> text as presented.
                >>> Åsmund
                >>>
                >>> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                >>> Fra: Xipirho [mailto:xipirho@...]
                >>> Sendt: 1. oktober 2003 01:35
                >>> Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                >>> Emne: Re: SV: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
                >>>
                >>> Um...so what are you saying? That the corrections were too
                >>> Deutsch/Dutch or that my version is too Deutsch/Dutch? Do you want
                > to
                >>
                >>> go thr'u' and say which bits are not true/to Deutsch/Dutch as far as
                >
                >>> you're concerned. Oh, and thanks Don for the comments even if they
                > are
                >>
                >>> a little Deutsch/Dutch biased as Åsmund seems to think - can you
                > tell
                >>
                >>> me what the various languages use instead of the forms I use? - i.e.
                >
                >>> instead of buugende and stuff... Thanks all.
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> On Monday, Sep 29, 2003, at 21:39 Europe/London, Knutson wrote:
                >>>
                >>>> I think your suggestions to what is good Germanic is further from
                >> the
                >>>> truth than what was first written here. It seems to me that the
                >>> Germans
                >>>> and Dutch are way out and that the Scandinavians and English are
                > on
                >>> the
                >>>> right track.
                >>>>
                >>>> Yet, this "Germanic" insistence seems to get the upper hand.
                >> Remember
                >>>> though, that our aim is to communicate, not to present a Teutonic,
                >>>> nationalistic Germanic superhuman lingua.
                >>>>
                >>>> Get into line! Try to construct something that is legible to the
                >>> world,
                >>>> not something that fits some Teutonic dream.
                >>>>
                >>>> Åsmund.
                >>>>
                >>>> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
                >>>> Fra: don_skov [mailto:c_h_skov@...]
                >>>> Sendt: 29. september 2003 10:27
                >>>> Til: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                >>>> Emne: [folkspraak] Re: babel text!
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>> Nice, i will create a poll later today, thatr we may decide on
                > which
                >>>> text to use.
                >>>> Because I have some spare time now, and becasue you asked me to i
                >>>> will point out english elements of your folkspraak.
                >>>>
                >>>>> Now follows my text, with a literal english translation
                > underneath:
                >>>>>
                >>>>> 1.Ond al di erd havd an tung ond an spraak.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> And all the earth had one tongue and one speech.
                >>>>
                >>>> al di erd-
                >>>> 1. the article: in most germanig tounges the the article comes
                >> before
                >>>> the adjective al- di al erd.
                >>>>
                >>>> 2. al is a very english word to use, in most other germanic
                >> languages
                >>>> you would use something similar to the engslish word "whole"
                >>>>
                >>>>> 2.Ond als manen veegd fron di ost, dej finded an flat in di land
                > ov
                >>>>> siinar ond seted deer.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> And as men journeyed from the east, they found a plain in the
                > land
                >>>> of
                >>>>> Shinar and settled there.
                >>>>
                >>>> ...,dej finded
                >>>> 1. this word order is specifically english in all other germanic
                >>>> tounges you would say in a sentence like that :"finded dej"
                >>>>
                >>>> ...di land ov shinar.
                >>>> this way of saying is english in other germanic tounges yo would
                >>>> say "di land Siinar"
                >>>>
                >>>>> 3. Ond dej saagd, an tu an ander, "kom, lat os maak ?mursteenen?,
                >>>> ond
                >>>>> brand dej vel-lik". Ond dej havd mursteen for steen ond teer for
                >>>> mortel
                >>>>> (morteer?!).
                >>>>
                >>>>> And they said, one to another, "come, let us make bricks, and
                > bake
                >>>> them
                >>>>> well". And they had brick for stone and tar for mortar.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> 4. Ond dej saagd "kom, lat os buug an stad, met an torn detes top
                >>>> skal
                >>>>> rek di hemel, so dat os kan maak an naam for os ond nikt spreded
                > ar
                >>>>> oover di hel verld".
                >>>>>
                >>>>> And they said "come, let us build a city, with a tower its top
                >>>> shall
                >>>>> reach the heaven, so that we can make a name for ourselves and
                > not
                >>>>> spread be over the whole world".
                >>>>
                >>>> 1. the use of the word rek is very englsih in the other germanic
                >>>> tounges it woudl require a "to" rek tu di hemel
                >>>> 2. spreded ar. I would say ar spreded, the englsih original spread
                >> be
                >>>> sounds old fashioned, i'm I right?
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>> 5. Men di her komd duun sean di stad ond di torn dat di manen var
                >>>>> buugende.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the men
                >>>> were
                >>>>> building.
                >>>>
                >>>> var buugende. this form to be building only exists in englsih and
                > no
                >>>> other germanic language.
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>> 6. Di her saagd "vif (maybe "if" or "ven" would be better?) als
                > an
                >>>> folk
                >>>>> spraakende an tung dej hav beginnd doan diis, den netinng skal ar
                >>>>> unmoogelik for dej"
                >>>>> The Lord said "if as one people speaking one tongue they have
                > begun
                >>>> to
                >>>>> do this, then nothing shall be impossible for them".
                >>>>
                >>>> sprakkende.. you can't you the present participle like that in
                > other
                >>>> germanic languages.
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>> 7. "Kom, lat os go ned ond forvirre dejes spraak so dat dej skal
                >>>>> neforrstan an anannder"
                >>>>>
                >>>>> "Come, let us go down and confuse their speech so that they shall
                >>>> not
                >>>>> understand one another"
                >>>>>
                >>>>> 8. So di her spreded dej fron deer al oover di erd, ond dej spopd
                >>>>> buugende di stad.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> So the Lord scattered them from there all over the earth, and
                > they
                >>>>> stopped building the city.
                >>>>
                >>>> buugende.. again specific english use
                >>>>
                >>>>> 9. Dat ar varfor (?vatfor?) et var naamd babel ? saak deer di her
                >>>>> forvirrd di tung ov di hel verld. Fron deer di her spreded dej
                >>>> oover di
                >>>>> hel erd.
                >>>>>
                >>>>> That's why it was called Babel ? because there the Lord confused
                >>>> the
                >>>>> tongue of the whole world. From there the Lord spead them over
                > the
                >>>>> whole earth.
                >>>>
                >>>> varfor. this is a direct translation of the englsih why, but in a
                >>>> sentence like this why means therefore, in the other germanic
                >>>> languages would use a form meaning therefore not why
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>> Browse the draft word lists!
                >>>> http://www.onelist.com/files/folkspraak/
                >>>> http://www.langmaker.com/folkspraak/volcab.html
                >>>>
                >>>> Browse Folkspraak-related links!
                >>>> http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
                >>>>
                >>>>
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                >>>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                >>>> ~->
                >>>>
                >>>> Browse the draft word lists!
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                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Browse the draft word lists!
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                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> Browse the draft word lists!
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                >>> Browse Folkspraak-related links!
                >>> http://www.onelist.com/links/folkspraak/
                >>>
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                >>>
                >>>
                >>
                >>
                >> Browse the draft word lists!
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                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Browse the draft word lists!
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                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > Browse the draft word lists!
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                > ~->
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              • don_skov
                Did I tell you by the way that whilst you were absent, i created a Pdf version of your grammar that i uploaded to the files section
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Did I tell you by the way that whilst you were absent, i created a Pdf
                  version of your grammar that i uploaded to the files section
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