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Re: [folkspraak] More prepositions

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  • Daan
    2001-06-14im ... suden norden osten vesten linken rekten - I thought we use -en for plurals and infinitives, so why not here too? ... Against-over (gejnover)
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 14, 2001
      2001-06-14im

      tungol65 v�m�t�g�cen:

      >sudan nordan ostan vestan
      >linkan rektan
      >dissejdan � on this side of datsejdan � on that side of

      suden norden osten vesten linken rekten - I thought we use -en for plurals and infinitives, so why not here too?

      >GEJN "against" GER gegen; ICE gegn
      >
      >To me against is used when something is on a vertical surface. So a
      >picture would hang "against" a wall.
      >
      >"de bild hange gejn de mur � the picture hangs on/against the wall"
      >"de besom lende gejn de mur � the broom leant against the wall"
      >
      >MOT locational meaning "opposite"
      >
      >"de auto ar mot min hus � the car is opposite my house"
      >
      Against-over (gejnover) will be better for me - "tegenover" in Dutch and "Gegen�ber" in German are litterally that.
    • tungol65
      I thought I d post my suggestions and ideas for a preposition system for comment. I think our prepositions should be as unambiguous as possible and avoid the
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 13, 2002
        I thought I'd post my suggestions and ideas for a preposition system
        for comment.

        I think our prepositions should be as unambiguous as possible and
        avoid the idiomatic usage commonly found in most Germanic languages.
        I have therefore defined them as clearly as possible, and given
        examples of their use.

        It seems to me that there are three types of prepositions:-

        Those showing, where something happens, which I shall refer to as
        Locative.
        Those showing, when or for how long something happens, which I shall
        refer to as Temporal.
        Those showing, the manner, reason etc of why or how something
        happens, which I shall refer to, for want of anything better, as
        Conditional.

        As is the case with many of the Germanic languages a preposition has
        more than one meaning, depending on whether it is used to show
        location, time or manner. I have followed this as closely as
        possible, to avoid having lots of different prepositions.
        In doing this I have imagined the passing of time as being like a
        journey along a path or road, to correlate the meanings. With the
        other prepositions I have tried to stick to historic or current
        Folkspraak usage.


        AN locative meaning "at, by, in, in the location of"

        "an de strand – on the beach"
        "an de dorp – in the village"
        "an de kirk – in/at the church"
        "an de see – by the lake"

        temporal meaning "at, in, on"

        "an seven ur – at seven o'clock"
        "an fridag – on Friday"
        "an juli – in july"

        English uses at, on or in depending on whether hours, days or months
        are referred to. "an" would translate all three.

        As "AN" is a general would to show location it could form compounds
        with points of the compass etc, as follows:-

        sudan nordan ostan vestan
        "de dorp ar sudan de bergen – the village is south of the mountains"
        "de kirk ar osten de stad – the church is east of the of the town"

        linkan rektan
        "min hus ar linkan de ald brug – my hus is to the left of the old
        bridge"

        dissejdan – on this side of datsejdan – on that side of
        "de slot ar datsejdan de flot – the castle is on that side of the
        river"

        This might need some polishing, to distinguish between "the house is
        on the eastern side of the village" and "the house is to the east of
        the village"


        FOR locative meaning "before, in front of"

        "for de kirk – in front of the church, before the church"

        temporal meaning "before"

        "ik skal rese for fimf ur – I shall travel before five o'clock"
        "ten minuten for nin – ten minutes to nine, ten to nine"


        AFTER locative meaning "behind, to the rear of"

        "de bom ar after de hus – the tree is behind the house"
        "de kind site after de stul – the child sits behind the chair"

        temporal meaning "after"

        "ik singde after min sister – I sang after my sister"
        "vi gade after tva dagen an min sisters hus – we went after two days
        at my sister's house"
        "aht minuten after middag – eight minutes past midday"

        conditional meaning "according to, after, by"

        "ik farde na min broders hus after sin riktingen – I drove to my
        brother's house according to his directions"
        "dat buk ar after Dickens – that book is by Dickens"
        "dis bild ar after min frend – this picture is by my friend"
        "ik arvde de hus after min fader – I inherited the house from my
        father"
        "de kind var after sin onkel hete – the child was named after his
        uncle"


        TIL locative meaning "up to (but not beyond)"

        "ik lopde til min fader – I ran up to my father"
        "de svan svimde til de brug – the swan swam up to the bridge"

        temporal meaning "until"

        "hi watede til siks ur – he waited until six o'clock"
        "ik arbete til ik ar trat – I work until I am tired"

        OP "on, upon, on the (horizontal) surface of (and in contact with)"

        "de kop ar op de tafel – the cup is on the table"
        "de fogel site op de dak – the bird sits on the roof"
        "de kat vande op de gras – the cat walks on the grass"

        IN "in, within, inside (a physical structure)"

        "de fru are in de hus – the woman is in the house"
        "de buk ar in de kist – the book is in the box"

        UNDER locative meaning "under, below (a surface)"

        "de hund ar under de tafel – the dog is under the table"
        "de knav svime under de vater – the boy swims under the water"

        OVER locative meaning "over, above (but not in contact with)"

        "de vogel flige over de hus – the bird flies over the hus"
        "de glok ringde over min hovd – the bell rang above my head"

        conditional meaning "about, concerning (a matter or subject)"

        "ik fragde over his broder – I asked about his brother"
        "ik wile to spreke over din lathed – I want to speak about your
        lateness"
        "vi denk over her oft – we think about her often"

        DURG locative meaning "through, passing from one point to another"
        (of an enclosed object)

        "dei resde durg de vald – they travel through the forest"
        "ik svime durg de vater – I swim trough the water"

        temporal meaning "during, for a certain period of time"

        "de fru singde durg en ur – the woman sang for an hour"
        "hi arbete durg fridag – he works during Friday" (through out the
        day), just doing some work on Friday would be "hi arbete an fridag"

        ELANG "along (a surface)" in the same direction as the thing
        traveled, such as a road, path, river.

        "vi fare elang de strat - we drive along the road"
        "vi drefde elang de flot - we drifted along the river"

        but

        "de vater flode durg de ror - the water flowed through/along the pipe"
        "de auto fare durg de tunnel - the car drives through/along the
        tunnel"

        Here I wanted a word to translate "across", most other Germanic
        languages seem to use the same word as "over", but to my English way
        of thinking there is a difference.

        "we walk across the field" (we go directly from one point to another)
        "we walk over the field" (we go indirectly, wandering about a bit)

        Any suggestions?

        GEJN "against" GER gegen; ICE gegn

        To me against is used when something is on a vertical surface. So a
        picture would hang "against" a wall.

        "de bild hange gejn de mur – the picture hangs on/against the wall"
        "de besom lende gejn de mur – the broom leant against the wall"

        MOT locational meaning "opposite"

        "de auto ar mot min hus – the car is opposite my house"

        conditional meaning "contrary to"

        "ik ferkopde min grotmoders ring, mot min faders villen – I sold my
        grandmother's ring, contrary to my father's wishes"

        NA "to, towards, in the direction of"

        "hi gade na de dorp – he went to the village"
        "de kind gae na de strand – the child goes to the beach"

        FRA "from, away from"

        "hi lope fra de tiger – he runs (away) from the tiger"
        "de fogel flige fra de foks – the bird flies away from the foks"
        "ik komde fra de dorp – I came from the village"

        temporal meaning "since"

        "ik have watede fra tva ur – I have waited since two o'clock"

        I would use NA and FRA in combination with other prepositions to
        indicate movement. This is done by using accusative and dative cases
        in German and Icelandic. English uses combinations of prepositions
        and Norwegian adverbial constructions. It would work like this

        "de mus lope under de tafel – the mouse runs under the table" (it
        runs about under there)
        "de mus lope na under de tafel – the mouse runs (to) under the table"
        (it goes to there from somewhere else)
        "de mus lope fra under de tafel – the mouse runs from under the
        table" (it goes from there to somewhere else)

        "de kind springe op de de stul – the child jumps on the chair"
        "de kind springe na op de stul – the child jumps onto the chair"
        "de kind springe fra op de stul – the child jumps from (off of) the
        chair"

        This would distinguish between

        "vi danse in de kamer – we dance in the room"
        "vi danse na in de kamer – we dance into the room"

        "de mantel hange op de hok – the coat hangs on the hook"
        "ik hange de mantel na op de hok – I hang the coat (up)on the hook"

        FRA OP would translate English "off" "ik falde fra op de pard – I
        fell off the horse"

        Maybe these combinations could be abbreviated to

        N'OP, FR'OP, N'IN, FR'IN, N'UNDER, FR'UNDER

        "de kind springe n'op de stul"
        "vi danse n'in de kamer – we dance into the room"
        "ik falde fr'op de pard – I fell off the horse"

        UT "out of"

        This could also be rendered by "FRA IN" but I would prefer "UT" as it
        is more recognisable and means the same thing. I guess it all depends
        on the perspective of the observer.

        "hi kome ut de hus – he comes out of the house"
        "hi kome fra in de hus – he comes from within the house"

        OM locative meaning "around, about (encircling)"

        "de kinden lope om de bom – the children run around the tree"
        "de man resde om de verld – de man traveled around the world"

        temporal meaning "around, about"

        "de postman kome om aht ur – the postman comes about eight o'clock"
        "de blad falle fr'op de bomen om oktober – the leaves from off the
        trees around october"

        conditional meaning "in order to, so that"

        "de tiger jage om eten – the tiger hunts in order to eat"
        "ik gae na de dorp om brod ferkopen – I go to the village in order to
        buy bread"

        AV "of, from, some of, by, (made) out of, with"

        To show possession

        "de buk av de knav - the book of the boy" I would expect the
        usual construction would be "de knavs buk"

        To show the agent of a passive verb

        "ik ar kussde av min moder – I am kissed by my mother" (c.f. GER Ich
        werde VON meiner Mutter geküsst)

        To show "some of"

        "ik ete de appelen – I eat the apples" (all of them)
        "k ete av de appelen – I eat (some) of the apples" (c.f. biblical
        English)

        To show "(made) out of"

        "en hert av sten – a heart of stone"
        "en hus av holt – a house of wood, a wooden house"
        or "en holthus"
        "en brug av sten – a bridge of stone, a stone bridge"
        or "en stenbrug"
        "en kop av gold – a cup of gold, a golden cup" or "en
        goldkop"

        To show an attribute or quality

        "en man av rod har – a man with red hair, a red-haired man"
        "en kind av blu ogen – a child with blue eyes, a blue-eyed child"
        "en man av vitenskap – a man of science"

        MED "with, in the company of"

        "ik singe med min frenden – I sing with my friends"
        "de kind ar med sin moder – the child is with its mother"

        SONDER "without"

        "de fater kome sonder sin son – the father comes without his son"
        "du ar sonder skuld – you are without shame"

        VID "with, by means of, with the aid of" (used to show the instrument
        of an action)

        "I snede de brod vid en kniv – I cut the bread with a knife"
        "de hund ar slagde av de knav vid en stok" – "the dog is beaten by
        the boy with a stick"
        "de ald man vande vid en stok – the old man walks with a stick"

        FUR "for, for the benefit of"

        "de ben are fur min hund – the bone is for my dog"
        "de kak are fur de mejd – the cake is for the girl"

        "ik have gen luv fur him – I have no love for him"
        "vi have gen glub fur her – we have no faith in her"
        "du have fel glub fur din fater – you have much faith in your father"

        TVISK "between, among, amongst, amid"

        "de hus var tvisk de bomen – the house was between the trees"
        "ik svime tvisk de fisken – I swim amongst the fish"

        TO "to" used to show the dative.

        "du givde de ben to de hund – you gave the bone to the dog"
        "ik skrivde en bref to min sister – I wrote a letter to my sister"

        STED "instead, instead of"

        "han kome sted sin broder – she comes instead of her brother"

        TROTS "in spite of"

        "vi gade na de strand, trots de rejn – we went to the beach, in spite
        of the rain"
        "ik

        VEGEN "because of, on account of"

        "han fallde vegen de is – she fell beacause of the ice"
        "de vater frese vegen de kald – the water freezes because of the
        cold"

        In enhed ond frendskap
      • Peter Reep
        ... months ... is ... of ... How about: == de Hus ar ostan av de Stadje; de Hus ar ostan fran de Stadje However, I prefer an de link to linkan , thus: ==
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 14, 2002
          A couple of initial thoughts:
          --- In folkspraak@y..., "tungol65" <robert.young24@n...> wrote:
          > AN locative meaning "at, by, in, in the location of"
          >
          > "an de strand – on the beach"
          > "an de dorp – in the village"
          > "an de kirk – in/at the church"
          > "an de see – by the lake"
          >
          > temporal meaning "at, in, on"
          >
          > "an seven ur – at seven o'clock"
          > "an fridag – on Friday"
          > "an juli – in july"
          >
          > English uses at, on or in depending on whether hours, days or
          months
          > are referred to. "an" would translate all three.
          >
          > As "AN" is a general would to show location it could form compounds
          > with points of the compass etc, as follows:-
          >
          > sudan nordan ostan vestan
          > "de dorp ar sudan de bergen – the village is south of the mountains"
          > "de kirk ar osten de stad – the church is east of the of the town"
          >
          > linkan rektan
          > "min hus ar linkan de ald brug – my hus is to the left of the old
          > bridge"
          >
          > dissejdan – on this side of datsejdan – on that side of
          > "de slot ar datsejdan de flot – the castle is on that side of the
          > river"
          >
          > This might need some polishing, to distinguish between "the house
          is
          > on the eastern side of the village" and "the house is to the east
          of
          > the village"

          How about:
          ==> de Hus ar ostan av de Stadje; de Hus ar ostan fran de Stadje
          However, I prefer "an de link" to "linkan", thus:
          ==> de Hus ar an de ost av de Stadje; de Hus ar an de ost fran de
          Stadje
          >
          >
          > FOR locative meaning "before, in front of"
          >
          > "for de kirk – in front of the church, before the church"
          >
          > temporal meaning "before"
          >
          > "ik skal rese for fimf ur – I shall travel before five o'clock"
          > "ten minuten for nin – ten minutes to nine, ten to nine"
          >
          >
          > AFTER locative meaning "behind, to the rear of"
          >
          > "de bom ar after de hus – the tree is behind the house"
          > "de kind site after de stul – the child sits behind the chair"
          >
          > temporal meaning "after"
          >
          > "ik singde after min sister – I sang after my sister"

          How would you say "I sang behind my sister"(ie I was on the back row
          and she was on the front)?
          I think I prefer "hinder" or "behind" for the locative

          > "vi gade after tva dagen an min sisters hus – we went after two
          days
          > at my sister's house"
          > "aht minuten after middag – eight minutes past midday"
          >
          > conditional meaning "according to, after, by"
          >
          > "ik farde na min broders hus after sin riktingen – I drove to my
          > brother's house according to his directions"
          > "dat buk ar after Dickens – that book is by Dickens"
          > "dis bild ar after min frend – this picture is by my friend"
          > "ik arvde de hus after min fader – I inherited the house from my
          > father"
          > "de kind var after sin onkel hete – the child was named after his
          > uncle"
          >
          >
        • tungol65
          ... plurals and infinitives, so why not here too? These end in -an not -en, they are not plurals but prepositions derived from points of the compass. ... a ...
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 14, 2002
            --- In folkspraak@y..., "Daan" <dgoedkoop@g...> wrote:
            > 2001-06-14im
            >
            > tungol65 vümëtügécen:
            >
            > >sudan nordan ostan vestan
            > >linkan rektan
            > >dissejdan – on this side of datsejdan – on that side of
            >
            > suden norden osten vesten linken rekten - I thought we use -en for
            plurals and infinitives, so why not here too?

            These end in -an not -en, they are not plurals but prepositions
            derived from points of the compass.

            > >GEJN "against" GER gegen; ICE gegn
            > >
            > >To me against is used when something is on a vertical surface. So
            a
            > >picture would hang "against" a wall.
            > >
            > >"de bild hange gejn de mur – the picture hangs on/against the wall"
            > >"de besom lende gejn de mur – the broom leant against the wall"
            > >
            > >MOT locational meaning "opposite"
            > >
            > >"de auto ar mot min hus – the car is opposite my house"
            > >
            > Against-over (gejnover) will be better for me - "tegenover" in
            Dutch and "Gegenüber" in German are litterally that.
          • tungol65
            ... compounds ... mountains ... Looks good ostan - at the east(ern side of) and ostan av - to the east of ... row ... Good point, I have no problem with
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 14, 2002
              --- In folkspraak@y..., "Peter Reep" <peter_reep@y...> wrote:
              > A couple of initial thoughts:
              > --- In folkspraak@y..., "tungol65" <robert.young24@n...> wrote:
              > > AN locative meaning "at, by, in, in the location of"
              > >
              > > "an de strand – on the beach"
              > > "an de dorp – in the village"
              > > "an de kirk – in/at the church"
              > > "an de see – by the lake"
              > >
              > > temporal meaning "at, in, on"
              > >
              > > "an seven ur – at seven o'clock"
              > > "an fridag – on Friday"
              > > "an juli – in july"
              > >
              > > English uses at, on or in depending on whether hours, days or
              > months
              > > are referred to. "an" would translate all three.
              > >
              > > As "AN" is a general would to show location it could form
              compounds
              > > with points of the compass etc, as follows:-
              > >
              > > sudan nordan ostan vestan
              > > "de dorp ar sudan de bergen – the village is south of the
              mountains"
              > > "de kirk ar osten de stad – the church is east of the of the town"
              > >
              > > linkan rektan
              > > "min hus ar linkan de ald brug – my hus is to the left of the old
              > > bridge"
              > >
              > > dissejdan – on this side of datsejdan – on that side of
              > > "de slot ar datsejdan de flot – the castle is on that side of the
              > > river"
              > >
              > > This might need some polishing, to distinguish between "the house
              > is
              > > on the eastern side of the village" and "the house is to the east
              > of
              > > the village"
              >
              > How about:
              > ==> de Hus ar ostan av de Stadje; de Hus ar ostan fran de Stadje
              > However, I prefer "an de link" to "linkan", thus:
              > ==> de Hus ar an de ost av de Stadje; de Hus ar an de ost fran de
              > Stadje

              Looks good "ostan - at the east(ern side of)" and "ostan av - to the
              east of"

              > > FOR locative meaning "before, in front of"
              > >
              > > "for de kirk – in front of the church, before the church"
              > >
              > > temporal meaning "before"
              > >
              > > "ik skal rese for fimf ur – I shall travel before five o'clock"
              > > "ten minuten for nin – ten minutes to nine, ten to nine"
              > >
              > >
              > > AFTER locative meaning "behind, to the rear of"
              > >
              > > "de bom ar after de hus – the tree is behind the house"
              > > "de kind site after de stul – the child sits behind the chair"
              > >
              > > temporal meaning "after"
              > >
              > > "ik singde after min sister – I sang after my sister"
              >
              > How would you say "I sang behind my sister"(ie I was on the back
              row
              > and she was on the front)?
              > I think I prefer "hinder" or "behind" for the locative

              Good point, I have no problem with keeping "hinder or behind" to show
              the locative.

              > > "vi gade after tva dagen an min sisters hus – we went after two
              > days
              > > at my sister's house"
              > > "aht minuten after middag – eight minutes past midday"
              > >
              > > conditional meaning "according to, after, by"
              > >
              > > "ik farde na min broders hus after sin riktingen – I drove to my
              > > brother's house according to his directions"
              > > "dat buk ar after Dickens – that book is by Dickens"
              > > "dis bild ar after min frend – this picture is by my friend"
              > > "ik arvde de hus after min fader – I inherited the house from my
              > > father"
              > > "de kind var after sin onkel hete – the child was named after his
              > > uncle"

              In enhed ond fredskap Robert
            • wordwulf
              ... Or instrumental. To me, conditional sounds too much as if you re talking about the verb. ... I guess I would prefer just to say De hus ar ost av de
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 14, 2002
                --- In folkspraak@y..., "tungol65" <robert.young24@n...> wrote:
                > I thought I'd post my suggestions and ideas for a preposition system
                > for comment.
                >
                > I think our prepositions should be as unambiguous as possible and
                > avoid the idiomatic usage commonly found in most Germanic languages.
                > I have therefore defined them as clearly as possible, and given
                > examples of their use.
                >
                > It seems to me that there are three types of prepositions:-
                >
                > Those showing, where something happens, which I shall refer to as
                > Locative.
                > Those showing, when or for how long something happens, which I shall
                > refer to as Temporal.
                > Those showing, the manner, reason etc of why or how something
                > happens, which I shall refer to, for want of anything better, as
                > Conditional.

                Or instrumental. To me, 'conditional' sounds too much as if you're
                talking about the verb.
                >
                > As is the case with many of the Germanic languages a preposition has
                > more than one meaning, depending on whether it is used to show
                > location, time or manner. I have followed this as closely as
                > possible, to avoid having lots of different prepositions.
                > In doing this I have imagined the passing of time as being like a
                > journey along a path or road, to correlate the meanings. With the
                > other prepositions I have tried to stick to historic or current
                > Folkspraak usage.
                >
                >
                > AN locative meaning "at, by, in, in the location of"
                >
                > "an de strand – on the beach"
                > "an de dorp – in the village"
                > "an de kirk – in/at the church"
                > "an de see – by the lake"
                >
                > temporal meaning "at, in, on"
                >
                > "an seven ur – at seven o'clock"
                > "an fridag – on Friday"
                > "an juli – in july"
                >
                > English uses at, on or in depending on whether hours, days or months
                > are referred to. "an" would translate all three.
                >
                > As "AN" is a general would to show location it could form compounds
                > with points of the compass etc, as follows:-
                >
                > sudan nordan ostan vestan
                > "de dorp ar sudan de bergen – the village is south of the mountains"
                > "de kirk ar osten de stad – the church is east of the of the town"
                >
                > linkan rektan
                > "min hus ar linkan de ald brug – my hus is to the left of the old
                > bridge"
                >
                > dissejdan – on this side of datsejdan – on that side of
                > "de slot ar datsejdan de flot – the castle is on that side of the
                > river"
                >
                > This might need some polishing, to distinguish between "the house is
                > on the eastern side of the village" and "the house is to the east of
                > the village"

                I guess I would prefer just to say 'De hus ar ost av de dorp.' or 'De
                hus ar vest fran de dorp.' 'De slot ar an de flots ostsid.'
                >
                >
                > FOR locative meaning "before, in front of"
                >
                > "for de kirk – in front of the church, before the church"
                >
                > temporal meaning "before"
                >
                > "ik skal rese for fimf ur – I shall travel before five o'clock"
                > "ten minuten for nin – ten minutes to nine, ten to nine"
                >
                >
                > AFTER locative meaning "behind, to the rear of"
                >
                > "de bom ar after de hus – the tree is behind the house"
                > "de kind site after de stul – the child sits behind the chair"
                >
                > temporal meaning "after"
                >
                > "ik singde after min sister – I sang after my sister"
                > "vi gade after tva dagen an min sisters hus – we went after two days
                > at my sister's house"
                > "aht minuten after middag – eight minutes past midday"
                >
                > conditional meaning "according to, after, by"
                >
                > "ik farde na min broders hus after sin riktingen – I drove to my
                > brother's house according to his directions"
                > "dat buk ar after Dickens – that book is by Dickens"
                > "dis bild ar after min frend – this picture is by my friend"
                > "ik arvde de hus after min fader – I inherited the house from my
                > father"
                > "de kind var after sin onkel hete – the child was named after his
                > uncle"

                I think we should keep *hinder for the locative meaning 'behind'.
                >
                >
                > TIL locative meaning "up to (but not beyond)"
                >
                > "ik lopde til min fader – I ran up to my father"
                > "de svan svimde til de brug – the swan swam up to the bridge"
                >
                > temporal meaning "until"
                >
                > "hi watede til siks ur – he waited until six o'clock"
                > "ik arbete til ik ar trat – I work until I am tired"
                >
                > OP "on, upon, on the (horizontal) surface of (and in contact with)"
                >
                > "de kop ar op de tafel – the cup is on the table"
                > "de fogel site op de dak – the bird sits on the roof"
                > "de kat vande op de gras – the cat walks on the grass"

                And in this category I would put: 'De bok ar op Folksprak skrivt.'
                (Ger. Das Buch ist auf Folksprach geschrieben. Swe. Boken ar skrivit
                pa Folksprak.)
                >
                > IN "in, within, inside (a physical structure)"
                >
                > "de fru are in de hus – the woman is in the house"
                > "de buk ar in de kist – the book is in the box"
                >
                > UNDER locative meaning "under, below (a surface)"
                >
                > "de hund ar under de tafel – the dog is under the table"
                > "de knav svime under de vater – the boy swims under the water"
                >
                > OVER locative meaning "over, above (but not in contact with)"
                >
                > "de vogel flige over de hus – the bird flies over the hus"
                > "de glok ringde over min hovd – the bell rang above my head"
                >
                > conditional meaning "about, concerning (a matter or subject)"
                >
                > "ik fragde over his broder – I asked about his brother"
                > "ik wile to spreke over din lathed – I want to speak about your
                > lateness"
                > "vi denk over her oft – we think about her often"
                >
                > DURG locative meaning "through, passing from one point to another"
                > (of an enclosed object)
                >
                > "dei resde durg de vald – they travel through the forest"
                > "ik svime durg de vater – I swim trough the water"
                >
                > temporal meaning "during, for a certain period of time"
                >
                > "de fru singde durg en ur – the woman sang for an hour"
                > "hi arbete durg fridag – he works during Friday" (through out the
                > day), just doing some work on Friday would be "hi arbete an fridag"
                >
                > ELANG "along (a surface)" in the same direction as the thing
                > traveled, such as a road, path, river.
                >
                > "vi fare elang de strat - we drive along the road"
                > "vi drefde elang de flot - we drifted along the river"

                I guess I would propose *andlang or just *lang.
                >
                > but
                >
                > "de vater flode durg de ror - the water flowed through/along the
                pipe"
                > "de auto fare durg de tunnel - the car drives through/along the
                > tunnel"
                >
                > Here I wanted a word to translate "across", most other Germanic
                > languages seem to use the same word as "over", but to my English way
                > of thinking there is a difference.
                >
                > "we walk across the field" (we go directly from one point to
                another)
                > "we walk over the field" (we go indirectly, wandering about a bit)
                >
                > Any suggestions?

                Why don't we use something like *omdurk to mean we walk around through
                the field and something like *opover to mean 'cross' the field?
                >
                > GEJN "against" GER gegen; ICE gegn
                >
                > To me against is used when something is on a vertical surface. So a
                > picture would hang "against" a wall.
                >
                > "de bild hange gejn de mur – the picture hangs on/against the wall"
                > "de besom lende gejn de mur – the broom leant against the wall"
                >
                > MOT locational meaning "opposite"
                >
                > "de auto ar mot min hus – the car is opposite my house"
                >
                > conditional meaning "contrary to"
                >
                > "ik ferkopde min grotmoders ring, mot min faders villen – I sold my
                > grandmother's ring, contrary to my father's wishes"
                >
                > NA "to, towards, in the direction of"
                >
                > "hi gade na de dorp – he went to the village"
                > "de kind gae na de strand – the child goes to the beach"
                >
                > FRA "from, away from"

                *fran?
                >
                > "hi lope fra de tiger – he runs (away) from the tiger"
                > "de fogel flige fra de foks – the bird flies away from the foks"
                > "ik komde fra de dorp – I came from the village"
                >
                > temporal meaning "since"
                >
                > "ik have watede fra tva ur – I have waited since two o'clock"
                >
                > I would use NA and FRA in combination with other prepositions to
                > indicate movement. This is done by using accusative and dative cases
                > in German and Icelandic. English uses combinations of prepositions
                > and Norwegian adverbial constructions. It would work like this
                >
                > "de mus lope under de tafel – the mouse runs under the table" (it
                > runs about under there)
                > "de mus lope na under de tafel – the mouse runs (to) under the
                table"
                > (it goes to there from somewhere else)
                > "de mus lope fra under de tafel – the mouse runs from under the
                > table" (it goes from there to somewhere else)
                >
                > "de kind springe op de de stul – the child jumps on the chair"
                > "de kind springe na op de stul – the child jumps onto the chair"
                > "de kind springe fra op de stul – the child jumps from (off of) the
                > chair"
                >
                > This would distinguish between
                >
                > "vi danse in de kamer – we dance in the room"
                > "vi danse na in de kamer – we dance into the room"

                Or we could say, "Vi dans into/intil de kammer."
                >
                > "de mantel hange op de hok – the coat hangs on the hook"
                > "ik hange de mantel na op de hok – I hang the coat (up)on the hook"
                >
                > FRA OP would translate English "off" "ik falde fra op de pard – I
                > fell off the horse"
                >
                > Maybe these combinations could be abbreviated to
                >
                > N'OP, FR'OP, N'IN, FR'IN, N'UNDER, FR'UNDER
                >
                > "de kind springe n'op de stul"
                > "vi danse n'in de kamer – we dance into the room"
                > "ik falde fr'op de pard – I fell off the horse"
                >
                > UT "out of"
                >
                > This could also be rendered by "FRA IN" but I would prefer "UT" as
                it
                > is more recognisable and means the same thing. I guess it all
                depends
                > on the perspective of the observer.

                Or we could do as Swedish does with its utifran, framifran, nerifran,
                etc. and have *utfran to use with verbs of motion.
                >
                > "hi kome ut de hus – he comes out of the house"
                > "hi kome fra in de hus – he comes from within the house"
                >
                > OM locative meaning "around, about (encircling)"
                >
                > "de kinden lope om de bom – the children run around the tree"
                > "de man resde om de verld – de man traveled around the world"
                >
                > temporal meaning "around, about"
                >
                > "de postman kome om aht ur – the postman comes about eight o'clock"
                > "de blad falle fr'op de bomen om oktober – the leaves from off the
                > trees around october"
                >
                > conditional meaning "in order to, so that"
                >
                > "de tiger jage om eten – the tiger hunts in order to eat"
                > "ik gae na de dorp om brod ferkopen – I go to the village in order
                to
                > buy bread"
                >
                > AV "of, from, some of, by, (made) out of, with"
                >
                > To show possession
                >
                > "de buk av de knav - the book of the boy" I would expect the
                > usual construction would be "de knavs buk"
                >
                > To show the agent of a passive verb
                >
                > "ik ar kussde av min moder – I am kissed by my mother" (c.f. GER Ich
                > werde VON meiner Mutter geküsst)
                >
                > To show "some of"
                >
                > "ik ete de appelen – I eat the apples" (all of them)
                > "k ete av de appelen – I eat (some) of the apples" (c.f. biblical
                > English)
                >
                > To show "(made) out of"
                >
                > "en hert av sten – a heart of stone"
                > "en hus av holt – a house of wood, a wooden house"
                > or "en holthus"
                > "en brug av sten – a bridge of stone, a stone bridge"
                > or "en stenbrug"
                > "en kop av gold – a cup of gold, a golden cup" or "en
                > goldkop"
                >
                > To show an attribute or quality
                >
                > "en man av rod har – a man with red hair, a red-haired man"
                > "en kind av blu ogen – a child with blue eyes, a blue-eyed child"
                > "en man av vitenskap – a man of science"
                >
                > MED "with, in the company of"
                >
                > "ik singe med min frenden – I sing with my friends"
                > "de kind ar med sin moder – the child is with its mother"
                >
                > SONDER "without"
                >
                > "de fater kome sonder sin son – the father comes without his son"
                > "du ar sonder skuld – you are without shame"
                >
                > VID "with, by means of, with the aid of" (used to show the
                instrument
                > of an action)
                >
                > "I snede de brod vid en kniv – I cut the bread with a knife"
                > "de hund ar slagde av de knav vid en stok" – "the dog is beaten by
                > the boy with a stick"
                > "de ald man vande vid en stok – the old man walks with a stick"
                >
                > FUR "for, for the benefit of"
                >
                > "de ben are fur min hund – the bone is for my dog"
                > "de kak are fur de mejd – the cake is for the girl"
                >
                > "ik have gen luv fur him – I have no love for him"
                > "vi have gen glub fur her – we have no faith in her"
                > "du have fel glub fur din fater – you have much faith in your
                father"
                >
                > TVISK "between, among, amongst, amid"
                >
                > "de hus var tvisk de bomen – the house was between the trees"
                > "ik svime tvisk de fisken – I swim amongst the fish"
                >
                > TO "to" used to show the dative.
                >
                > "du givde de ben to de hund – you gave the bone to the dog"
                > "ik skrivde en bref to min sister – I wrote a letter to my sister"
                >
                > STED "instead, instead of"
                >
                > "han kome sted sin broder – she comes instead of her brother"
                >
                > TROTS "in spite of"
                >
                > "vi gade na de strand, trots de rejn – we went to the beach, in
                spite
                > of the rain"
                > "ik
                >
                > VEGEN "because of, on account of"
                >
                > "han fallde vegen de is – she fell beacause of the ice"
                > "de vater frese vegen de kald – the water freezes because of the
                > cold"
                >
                > In enhed ond frendskap

                Dis ar god.
                Erik
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