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RE: [folkspraak] prepositions

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  • Hans Kamp
    ... Ik tustim hel. Hans Kamp.
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 1, 2002
      > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
      > Van: wordwulf [mailto:eparsels@...]
      > Verzonden: donderdag 1 augustus 2002 8:09
      > Aan: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > Onderwerp: [folkspraak] prepositions
      >
      > after 'after' (Eng. after, Swe. efter, Dut. achter)
      >
      > an 'at, to, on' (Eng. on, Ger. an, Swe. an, Dut. aan)
      >
      > av 'of, from, off' (Eng. of, Swe. av, Ger ab, Dut. af)
      >
      > bi 'by, at' (Eng. by, Ger. bei, Dut. bij)
      >
      > durh 'through' (Eng. through, Ger. durch, Dut. door)
      >
      > for 'for, before' (Eng. for, Ger. für, Dut. voor)
      >
      > fram 'from, forward of' (Eng. from. Swe. fram)
      >
      > gegen 'against' (Eng. against, Ger. gegen, Dut. tegen)
      >
      > hinder 'behind' (Eng. be-hind, Ger. hinter)
      >
      > in 'in' (Eng. in, Ger. in, Swe. i, Dut. in)
      >
      > instad 'instead of' (Eng. instead, Ger. anstatt)
      >
      > mid 'with' (Ger. mit, Swe. med, Dut. met)
      >
      > nah 'near, toward' (Eng. nigh, Ger. nach, Dut. na)
      >
      > om 'around, about' (Ger. um, Swe. om, Dut. om)
      >
      > op 'upon, on, at' (Ger. auf, Dut. op)
      >
      > over 'over' (Eng. over, Ger. über, Swe. över, Dut.
      > over)
      >
      > siden 'since' (Eng. dialect sithen, Ger. seit, Swe.
      > sedan, Dut. sinds)
      >
      > till 'until' (Eng. till, Swe. till)
      >
      > to 'to, toward' (Eng. to, Ger. zu, Dut. toe)
      >
      > tvissen 'between' (Eng. be-twe'en/betwix,
      > Ger. zwischen,
      > Dut. tussen)
      >
      > under 'under' (Eng. under, Ger. unter, Swe. under,
      > Dut. onder)
      >
      > ut 'out of' (Eng. out, Ger. aus, Swe. ut, Dut.
      > uit)
      >
      > vid 'alongside' (Eng. with, Swe. vid)
      >
      > I have tried to steer away from prepositions that occur in only one
      > language, such as German bis or Swedish bakom.
      >
      > Ik have forsokt styre av de prepositjonen dat forkome enlik in en
      > sprak, so als Dytsk bis oder Svensk bakom.
      >
      > Vat dinke je om det?

      Ik tustim hel.

      Hans Kamp.
    • peter_reep
      I ve added a few thoughts to some of these suggestions. ... I don t like rh ending. I would prefer durk or dur . The original Folkspraak list uses genem
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 1, 2002
        I've added a few thoughts to some of these suggestions.

        --- In folkspraak@y..., "wordwulf" <eparsels@n...> wrote:
        > Here is my preliminary preposition list:
        >
        > Her are min inledend prepositjonlist:
        >
        > after 'after' (Eng. after, Swe. efter, Dut. achter)
        >
        > an 'at, to, on' (Eng. on, Ger. an, Swe. an, Dut. aan)
        >
        > av 'of, from, off' (Eng. of, Swe. av, Ger ab, Dut. af)
        >
        > bi 'by, at' (Eng. by, Ger. bei, Dut. bij)
        >
        > durh 'through' (Eng. through, Ger. durch, Dut. door)


        I don't like 'rh' ending. I would prefer 'durk' or 'dur'.
        The original Folkspraak list uses 'genem' for through and I have been
        using that so far. I would like either 'genem' or 'durk'.

        >
        > for 'for, before' (Eng. for, Ger. für, Dut. voor)

        Should there be a difference between Eng. for, Ger. für and Eng. 'in
        front of' Ger. vor?
        >
        > fram 'from, forward of' (Eng. from. Swe. fram)
        >
        > gegen 'against' (Eng. against, Ger. gegen, Dut. tegen)

        I've used 'egen' for this as there's no agreement with the first
        consonant.

        >
        > hinder 'behind' (Eng. be-hind, Ger. hinter)
        >
        > in 'in' (Eng. in, Ger. in, Swe. i, Dut. in)
        >
        > instad 'instead of' (Eng. instead, Ger. anstatt)
        >
        > mid 'with' (Ger. mit, Swe. med, Dut. met)
        >
        > nah 'near, toward' (Eng. nigh, Ger. nach, Dut. na)

        I would prefer to not have 'ah', so would prefer 'na'.
        >
        > om 'around, about' (Ger. um, Swe. om, Dut. om)
        >
        > op 'upon, on, at' (Ger. auf, Dut. op)

        The original Folkspraak uses 'aup', but I prefer 'op'
        >
        > over 'over' (Eng. over, Ger. über, Swe. över,
        Dut.
        > over)
        >
        > siden 'since' (Eng. dialect sithen, Ger. seit, Swe.
        > sedan, Dut. sinds)
        >
        > till 'until' (Eng. till, Swe. till)
        >
        > to 'to, toward' (Eng. to, Ger. zu, Dut. toe)
        >
        > tvissen 'between' (Eng. be-twe'en/betwix, Ger.
        zwischen,
        > Dut. tussen)

        I've used 'tven' and think I prefer it


        > under 'under' (Eng. under, Ger. unter, Swe. under,
        > Dut. onder)
        >
        > ut 'out of' (Eng. out, Ger. aus, Swe. ut, Dut.
        > uit)
        >
        > vid 'alongside' (Eng. with, Swe. vid)
        >
        > I have tried to steer away from prepositions that occur in only one
        > language, such as German bis or Swedish bakom.
        >
        > Ik have forsokt styre av de prepositjonen dat forkome enlik in en
        > sprak, so als Dytsk bis oder Svensk bakom.
        >
        > Vat dinke je om det?
        >
        > Erik
      • peter_reep
        I ve added a few thoughts to some of these suggestions. ... I don t like rh ending. I would prefer durk or dur . The original Folkspraak list uses genem
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 1, 2002
          I've added a few thoughts to some of these suggestions.

          --- In folkspraak@y..., "wordwulf" <eparsels@n...> wrote:
          > Here is my preliminary preposition list:
          >
          > Her are min inledend prepositjonlist:
          >
          > after 'after' (Eng. after, Swe. efter, Dut. achter)
          >
          > an 'at, to, on' (Eng. on, Ger. an, Swe. an, Dut. aan)
          >
          > av 'of, from, off' (Eng. of, Swe. av, Ger ab, Dut. af)
          >
          > bi 'by, at' (Eng. by, Ger. bei, Dut. bij)
          >
          > durh 'through' (Eng. through, Ger. durch, Dut. door)


          I don't like 'rh' ending. I would prefer 'durk' or 'dur'.
          The original Folkspraak list uses 'genem' for through and I have been
          using that so far. I would like either 'genem' or 'durk'.

          >
          > for 'for, before' (Eng. for, Ger. für, Dut. voor)

          Should there be a difference between Eng. for, Ger. für and Eng. 'in
          front of' Ger. vor?
          >
          > fram 'from, forward of' (Eng. from. Swe. fram)
          >
          > gegen 'against' (Eng. against, Ger. gegen, Dut. tegen)

          I've used 'egen' for this as there's no agreement with the first
          consonant.

          >
          > hinder 'behind' (Eng. be-hind, Ger. hinter)
          >
          > in 'in' (Eng. in, Ger. in, Swe. i, Dut. in)
          >
          > instad 'instead of' (Eng. instead, Ger. anstatt)
          >
          > mid 'with' (Ger. mit, Swe. med, Dut. met)
          >
          > nah 'near, toward' (Eng. nigh, Ger. nach, Dut. na)

          I would prefer to not have 'ah', so would prefer 'na'.
          >
          > om 'around, about' (Ger. um, Swe. om, Dut. om)
          >
          > op 'upon, on, at' (Ger. auf, Dut. op)

          The original Folkspraak uses 'aup', but I prefer 'op'
          >
          > over 'over' (Eng. over, Ger. über, Swe. över,
          Dut.
          > over)
          >
          > siden 'since' (Eng. dialect sithen, Ger. seit, Swe.
          > sedan, Dut. sinds)
          >
          > till 'until' (Eng. till, Swe. till)
          >
          > to 'to, toward' (Eng. to, Ger. zu, Dut. toe)
          >
          > tvissen 'between' (Eng. be-twe'en/betwix, Ger.
          zwischen,
          > Dut. tussen)

          I've used 'tven' and think I prefer it


          > under 'under' (Eng. under, Ger. unter, Swe. under,
          > Dut. onder)
          >
          > ut 'out of' (Eng. out, Ger. aus, Swe. ut, Dut.
          > uit)
          >
          > vid 'alongside' (Eng. with, Swe. vid)
          >
          > I have tried to steer away from prepositions that occur in only one
          > language, such as German bis or Swedish bakom.
          >
          > Ik have forsokt styre av de prepositjonen dat forkome enlik in en
          > sprak, so als Dytsk bis oder Svensk bakom.
          >
          > Vat dinke je om det?
          >
          > Erik
        • wordwulf
          ... achter) ... Dut. door) ... been ... I would prefer dur , fond as I am of my Swedish roots. ... Well, we could try fur and for. ... Dut. tegen) ... I use
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 1, 2002
            --- In folkspraak@y..., "peter_reep" <peter_reep@y...> wrote:
            > I've added a few thoughts to some of these suggestions.
            >
            > --- In folkspraak@y..., "wordwulf" <eparsels@n...> wrote:
            > > Here is my preliminary preposition list:
            > >
            > > Her are min inledend prepositjonlist:
            > >
            > > after 'after' (Eng. after, Swe. efter, Dut.
            achter)
            > >
            > > an 'at, to, on' (Eng. on, Ger. an, Swe. an, Dut. aan)
            > >
            > > av 'of, from, off' (Eng. of, Swe. av, Ger ab, Dut. af)
            > >
            > > bi 'by, at' (Eng. by, Ger. bei, Dut. bij)
            > >
            > > durh 'through' (Eng. through, Ger. durch,
            Dut. door)
            >
            >
            > I don't like 'rh' ending. I would prefer 'durk' or 'dur'.
            > The original Folkspraak list uses 'genem' for through and I have
            been
            > using that so far. I would like either 'genem' or 'durk'.

            I would prefer 'dur', fond as I am of my Swedish roots.
            >
            > >
            > > for 'for, before' (Eng. for, Ger. für, Dut. voor)
            >
            > Should there be a difference between Eng. for, Ger. für and Eng. 'in
            > front of' Ger. vor?

            Well, we could try fur and for.
            > >
            > > fram 'from, forward of' (Eng. from. Swe. fram)
            > >
            > > gegen 'against' (Eng. against, Ger. gegen,
            Dut. tegen)
            >
            > I've used 'egen' for this as there's no agreement with the first
            > consonant.

            I use 'egen' for 'own' as in min egen hus (my own house). The older
            English and Dutch forms would have contained the root -gegn-, somewhat
            like on-gegn and to-gegn. The second g was palatalized by the e and
            assimilated. I think either gegen or gen would be better.
            >
            > >
            > > hinder 'behind' (Eng. be-hind, Ger. hinter)
            > >
            > > in 'in' (Eng. in, Ger. in, Swe. i, Dut. in)
            > >
            > > instad 'instead of' (Eng. instead, Ger. anstatt)
            > >
            > > mid 'with' (Ger. mit, Swe. med, Dut. met)
            > >
            > > nah 'near, toward' (Eng. nigh, Ger. nach, Dut. na)
            >
            > I would prefer to not have 'ah', so would prefer 'na'.

            That would work, as neither the English nor the Dutch pronounce the
            final consonant any longer. The Dutch don't even write it.
            > >
            > > om 'around, about' (Ger. um, Swe. om, Dut. om)
            > >
            > > op 'upon, on, at' (Ger. auf, Dut. op)
            >
            > The original Folkspraak uses 'aup', but I prefer 'op'

            me too.
            > >
            > > over 'over' (Eng. over, Ger. über, Swe.
            över,
            > Dut.
            > > over)
            > >
            > > siden 'since' (Eng. dialect sithen, Ger.
            seit, Swe.
            > > sedan, Dut. sinds)
            > >
            > > till 'until' (Eng. till, Swe. till)
            > >
            > > to 'to, toward' (Eng. to, Ger. zu, Dut. toe)
            > >
            > > tvissen 'between' (Eng. be-twe'en/betwix, Ger.
            > zwischen,
            > > Dut. tussen)
            >
            > I've used 'tven' and think I prefer it

            It is simpler, and that's what I guess we're after.
            >
            >
            > > under 'under' (Eng. under, Ger. unter, Swe.
            under,
            > > Dut. onder)
            > >
            > > ut 'out of' (Eng. out, Ger. aus, Swe. ut, Dut.
            > > uit)
            > >
            > > vid 'alongside' (Eng. with, Swe. vid)
            > >
            > > I have tried to steer away from prepositions that occur in only
            one
            > > language, such as German bis or Swedish bakom.
            > >
            > > Ik have forsokt styre av de prepositjonen dat forkome enlik in en
            > > sprak, so als Dytsk bis oder Svensk bakom.
            > >
            > > Vat dinke je om det?
            > >
            > > Erik
          • wordwulf
            God dag, Ik denk dat vi skulde bruke de tre prepositionen av, fron und ut. Av kann vare brukt for de possessiv ond for komposition (en tiger av paper--a paper
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 22, 2005
              God dag,
              Ik denk dat vi skulde bruke de tre prepositionen av, fron und ut. Av
              kann vare brukt for de possessiv ond for komposition (en tiger av
              paper--a paper tiger). Fron kann vare brukt for de originpunkt,
              als "Vi komde fron Amerika"--We came from America. Und ut kann vare
              brukt for utkomming oder stelling ut av en plats, t.b. "Ik komde ut
              de hus."--I came out of the house. "Ik var ut."--I was out.
              Englisk "from" ond Deutsk/Nederlandsk von/van ar de sam vord,
              historisk, just mid tva unlik uttalen.

              I think that we should use the three prepositions, av, fron and ut.
              Av can be used for the possessive and for composition (a tiger of
              paper--a paper tiger). Fron can be used for the point of origin,
              like "We came from America." And ut can be used for coming out or
              being outside a place (when we want to emphasize coming or being
              outside, as opposed to inside, something like a house or a bottle).
              For example, "I came out of the house." "I was out." English "from"
              and German/Dutch von/van are the same word, historically, just with
              two unlike pronunciations.

              Best gryten,
              Erik
            • wakuran_wakaran
              ... Av ... vare ... ut. ... bottle). ... English from ... I prefer fon to av for the genitive, though, since áf (off) and áv (of) could be mixed up. I
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 22, 2005
                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "wordwulf" <eparsels@n...> wrote:
                >
                > God dag,
                > Ik denk dat vi skulde bruke de tre prepositionen av, fron und ut.
                Av
                > kann vare brukt for de possessiv ond for komposition (en tiger av
                > paper--a paper tiger). Fron kann vare brukt for de originpunkt,
                > als "Vi komde fron Amerika"--We came from America. Und ut kann
                vare
                > brukt for utkomming oder stelling ut av en plats, t.b. "Ik komde ut
                > de hus."--I came out of the house. "Ik var ut."--I was out.
                > Englisk "from" ond Deutsk/Nederlandsk von/van ar de sam vord,
                > historisk, just mid tva unlik uttalen.
                >
                > I think that we should use the three prepositions, av, fron and
                ut.
                > Av can be used for the possessive and for composition (a tiger of
                > paper--a paper tiger). Fron can be used for the point of origin,
                > like "We came from America." And ut can be used for coming out or
                > being outside a place (when we want to emphasize coming or being
                > outside, as opposed to inside, something like a house or a
                bottle).
                > For example, "I came out of the house." "I was out."
                English "from"
                > and German/Dutch von/van are the same word, historically, just with
                > two unlike pronunciations.
                >
                > Best gryten,
                > Erik

                I prefer "fon" to "av" for the genitive, though, since áf (off) and
                áv (of) could be mixed up.
                I think that it would be good to give "fon" and "fron" two specific
                different meanings.
                And although Swedish has the preposition "ur", functioning much like
                German "aus", I still think it would look weird using the word with
                this sense...
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