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Wirvelwind!

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  • David
    Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded. Dat war 15km fra min hus.
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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      Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
      Dat war 15km fra min hus.
    • Erik
      Hey, only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I m not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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        Hey,

        only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?

        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
        >
        > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
        > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
        > Dat war 15km fra min hus.

        Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.

        Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.

        [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.

        Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.

        regards,
      • Wayne Pearce
        Ongelooflik - wat doen jy in Nieu-Seeland? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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          Ongelooflik - wat doen jy in Nieu-Seeland?
          On Dec 6, 2012, at 2:45 PM, David wrote:

          > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
          > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David
          Ek renn fra wirvelstormen, erdbevings ond vulkanen!
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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            Ek renn fra wirvelstormen, erdbevings ond vulkanen!

            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Pearce <wp84195@...> wrote:
            >
            > Ongelooflik - wat doen jy in Nieu-Seeland?
            > On Dec 6, 2012, at 2:45 PM, David wrote:
            >
            > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
            > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • David
            Sorry Erik, the grammar isn t codified yet -- so the conjugation of wese (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment. Should used wirvelstorm perhaps.
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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              Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.

              Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.

              And I could have said "geshejed" also.

              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Hey,
              >
              > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
              >
              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
              > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
              > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
              >
              > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
              >
              > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
              >
              > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
              >
              > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
              >
              > regards,
              >
            • Erik
              No worries, David, ... Ferderved triggers me to verdorben . Breked triggers me to brechen; zerbrochen ... Geshejed triggers me to das Geschehen, es
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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                No worries, David,

                > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                >
                > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.


                "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"


                > And I could have said "geshejed" also.

                "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"


                I tried to got it without any dictionary. 

                regards, Erik



                ________________________________
                Von: David <parked@...>
                An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                 
                Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.

                Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.

                And I could have said "geshejed" also.

                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Hey,
                >
                > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                >
                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                >
                > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                >
                > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                >
                > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                >
                > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                >
                > regards,
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • David
                Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. ferderve means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. Fucked up would be the
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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                  Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)

                  Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                  Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.

                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > No worries, David,
                  >
                  > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                  > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                  > >
                  > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                  > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                  >
                  >
                  > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                  >
                  >
                  > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                  >
                  > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                  >
                  >
                  > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                  >
                  > regards, Erik
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  > Von: David <parked@...>
                  > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                  > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                  > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                  >
                  > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                  >
                  > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                  >
                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hey,
                  > >
                  > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                  > >
                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                  > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                  > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                  > >
                  > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                  > >
                  > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                  > >
                  > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                  > >
                  > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                  > >
                  > > regards,
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • David
                  Nyw Sewland is min inhemish land. Ek wone dar.
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 6, 2012
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                    Nyw Sewland is min inhemish land. Ek wone dar.

                    --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Pearce <wp84195@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ongelooflik - wat doen jy in Nieu-Seeland?
                    > On Dec 6, 2012, at 2:45 PM, David wrote:
                    >
                    > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                    > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Ben Vandenberg
                    Here my version of wirbelwind , by BenVandenberg, I m d Dutch, and I tried to make kinda mix between Dutch, English, German and Frisian. Dri menscen in
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 7, 2012
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                      Here my version of "wirbelwind", by BenVandenberg, I'm d Dutch, and I tried to make kinda mix between Dutch, English, German and Frisian.
                      Dri menscen in Auckland starfen na ene wirbelstorm in dë forsstedë Hobsonville. Hundrede fümftich hüsen wären sir scädichd. Dâ wär fümftsin kilometren vô minë hüse af.


                      ________________________________
                      From: David <parked@...>
                      To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 11:03 PM
                      Subject: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                       

                      Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.

                      Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.

                      And I could have said "geshejed" also.

                      --- In mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hey,
                      >
                      > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                      >
                      > --- In mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                      > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                      > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                      >
                      > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                      >
                      > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                      >
                      > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                      >
                      > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                      >
                      > regards,
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ben Vandenberg
                      Sorry, wirbelwind should ve been wirvelwind , and the last  sentence could ve been : Dâ gescae .......`. ________________________________ From: Ben
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 7, 2012
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                        Sorry, "wirbelwind" should've been "wirvelwind", and the last  sentence could've been : "Dâ gescae .......`.


                        ________________________________
                        From: Ben Vandenberg <bencegora@...>
                        To: "folkspraak@yahoogroups.com" <folkspraak@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Friday, December 7, 2012 12:12 PM
                        Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                         

                        Here my version of "wirbelwind", by BenVandenberg, I'm d Dutch, and I tried to make kinda mix between Dutch, English, German and Frisian.
                        Dri menscen in Auckland starfen na ene wirbelstorm in dë forsstedë Hobsonville. Hundrede fümftich hüsen wären sir scädichd. Dâ wär fümftsin kilometren vô minë hüse af.


                        ________________________________
                        From: David <mailto:parked%40woosh.co.nz>
                        To: mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 11:03 PM
                        Subject: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                         

                        Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.

                        Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.

                        And I could have said "geshejed" also.

                        --- In mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hey,
                        >
                        > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                        >
                        > --- In mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                        > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                        > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                        >
                        > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                        >
                        > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                        >
                        > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                        >
                        > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                        >
                        > regards,
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Erik
                        ... de-de: Neu Seeland ist mein einheimisches Land. Ich wohne da/ dort. === Completely understood like cognate dialect; Within distinctive onsite dialect of
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 7, 2012
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                          > Nyw Sewland is min inhemish land. Ek wone dar.

                          de-de: Neu Seeland ist mein einheimisches Land. Ich wohne da/ dort.
                          ===

                          Completely understood like cognate dialect; Within distinctive onsite dialect of south-east German city triangle Gera-Leipzig-Chemnitz there often "dorten" instead of Standard German "dort" is used.

                          regards, Erik



                          ________________________________
                          Von: David <parked@...>
                          An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                          Gesendet: 1:05 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                          Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                           
                          Nyw Sewland is min inhemish land. Ek wone dar.

                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Wayne Pearce <wp84195@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Ongelooflik - wat doen jy in Nieu-Seeland?
                          > On Dec 6, 2012, at 2:45 PM, David wrote:
                          >
                          > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                          > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Erik
                          Okay, David, I don t know if that could be useful. I own book Interlingua, Grammar and Method which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 7, 2012
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                            Okay, David,


                            I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .


                            regards, Erik


                            http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/



                            ________________________________
                            Von: David <parked@...>
                            An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                            Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                             
                            Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)

                            Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                            Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.

                            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > No worries, David,
                            >
                            > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                            > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                            > >
                            > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                            > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                            >
                            >
                            > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                            >
                            >
                            > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                            >
                            > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                            >
                            >
                            > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                            >
                            > regards, Erik
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > Von: David <parked@...>
                            > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                            > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                            >
                            > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                            >
                            > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                            >
                            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hey,
                            > >
                            > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                            > >
                            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                            > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                            > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                            > >
                            > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                            > >
                            > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                            > >
                            > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                            > >
                            > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                            > >
                            > > regards,
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David
                            Thanks Erik. I have already read a lot about the guidelines for making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype. I think that it s a good idea
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 8, 2012
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                              Thanks Erik.
                              I have already read a lot about the guidelines for making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.

                              I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons:
                              Interlingua etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the ancestor of the Germanic languages.

                              Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.
                              Latin never really died out. It continues to this day in a zombie-like undead existence. For one thing it was written down. For another thing, even after the Romance languages had diverged into separate languages, Latin continued to be used by educated people throughout Europe. It continued to influence Romance languages and be used as a source of new vocabulary in many many languages, right up to the present day. And not just used this way by Romance languages, but even by non-European languages such as Indonesian, Tagalog and Turkish.

                              Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way. Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For example the etymological prototype for all those words with instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.

                              For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.

                              I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original source word. I started doing this because the average form of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and Icelandic-looking forms to show through.

                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Okay, David,
                              >
                              >
                              > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                              >
                              >
                              > regards, Erik
                              >
                              >
                              > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > Von: David <parked@...>
                              > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                              > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                              >
                              > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                              > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                              >
                              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > No worries, David,
                              > >
                              > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                              > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                              > > >
                              > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                              > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                              > >
                              > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                              > >
                              > > regards, Erik
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > Von: David <parked@>
                              > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                              > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >  
                              > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                              > >
                              > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                              > >
                              > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                              > >
                              > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hey,
                              > > >
                              > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                              > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                              > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                              > > >
                              > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                              > > >
                              > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                              > > >
                              > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                              > > >
                              > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                              > > >
                              > > > regards,
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Erik
                              Hey David, ... Does there excists some core ressource of that guidelines? Or is it scattered in multiple places? I ask because of that Carlos mainly tries to
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 8, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hey David,

                                > I have already read a lot about the guidelines for
                                > making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.

                                Does there excists some core ressource of that guidelines? Or is it
                                scattered in multiple places? I ask because of that Carlos mainly tries
                                to develop that Modern-Indoeuropean that way to compile language
                                research papers into that one final language concept of MIE. He even
                                marks that all of his linguistic of Proto-Indoeuropean he put of
                                research papers. Being Spanish native he studied English. So, he started
                                at novice to create naturalistic MIE dialect language. Hhm.

                                http://dnghu.org/en/European-Union-Language-Policy/ (MIE manifest)
                                http://indo-european.info/indoeuropean/ (Blog)

                                > I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a
                                > pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a
                                > Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons: Interlingua
                                > etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar
                                > Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of
                                > Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the
                                > ancestor of the Germanic languages.

                                Thanks, David. I'm not specialist at this matter. But Stanley A. Mulaik
                                reasoning similar:

                                Page 259: "...
                                The importance of cognate relations is central to the concept of
                                Interlingua. The eligibility of words to be international depends on
                                their being cognate in at least three languages, in other words, that
                                their similarity is because they have a common ancestor.

                                Now, one might ask whether we could develop a language with elements
                                common to all of the IndoEuropean languages. While in principle that
                                might be possible, the result would not be very useful because the
                                common forms would be unrecognizeable by most speakers today. And the
                                vocabulary would be very limited. Furthermore languages that are wideley
                                separated in the IndoEuropean network may have few words in common. What
                                makes a language distinct is the development of unique forms of speech.
                                A slightly more pausible idea would be to develop a pan-Germanic
                                language or a pan-Slavic language. That has been attempted, but their
                                usefulness is confined principally to Germanic and Slavic speakers,
                                respectively. The Romanic group centered on Latin is more plausible
                                approach to developing an international language because the influence
                                of Latin (regarding broadly) is nont confined just to descendents of
                                Latin but extends to other language groups like the Germanic and Slavic
                                languages that have borrowed extensivly from Latin and Romance
                                vocabularies. The languages in the Romanic group are also less remote
                                with respect to another and words have not been drastically distorted by
                                phonemic change.
                                ..."

                                ( http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet )

                                > Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the
                                > records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.

                                Carlos (project leader of MIE) also mentioned that.

                                > Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a
                                > useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on
                                > Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way.

                                Hhm. Could Carlos put such much work into something what will useless in
                                future? Maybe that book Indo-European Grammar could be interesting for
                                you. If you like I can send you his email adresse. Could be interesting
                                special field discussion(?)

                                http://indo-european.info/

                                > Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For
                                > example the etymological prototype for all those words with
                                > instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still
                                > retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big
                                > Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many
                                > language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't
                                > a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.

                                Sorry, I have to confess, that I have not that special knowledge to
                                follow up to disucss that.

                                > For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that
                                > represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major
                                > modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for
                                > example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua
                                > method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar
                                > proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a
                                > Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.

                                Hey, thats cool:-) It would be very interesting to have some kind of
                                common discussion panel of you (Folksprak), Josu Lavin (Interlingua),
                                Vojta Merunka (Neoslavonic-Interslavic) and other Interslavic folks, and
                                Carlos Quiles (Modern Indoeuropean). If you like I can send you email
                                adresses of that persons.

                                > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I
                                > have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the
                                > Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the
                                > commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original
                                > source word. I started doing this because the average form of
                                > Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian
                                > form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian
                                > :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing
                                > on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and
                                > Icelandic-looking forms to show through.

                                So, it first will "need" two different con-lang dialects of Germanic
                                languages to develop Folksprak? Or will your Scandinavian auxlang will
                                be base for Folksprak?

                                regards, Erik

                                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Thanks Erik.
                                > I have already read a lot about the guidelines for making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.
                                >
                                > I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons:
                                > Interlingua etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the ancestor of the Germanic languages.
                                >
                                > Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.
                                > Latin never really died out. It continues to this day in a zombie-like undead existence. For one thing it was written down. For another thing, even after the Romance languages had diverged into separate languages, Latin continued to be used by educated people throughout Europe. It continued to influence Romance languages and be used as a source of new vocabulary in many many languages, right up to the present day. And not just used this way by Romance languages, but even by non-European languages such as Indonesian, Tagalog and Turkish.
                                >
                                > Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way. Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For example the etymological prototype for all those words with instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.
                                >
                                > For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.
                                >
                                > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original source word. I started doing this because the average form of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                >
                                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Okay, David,
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > regards, Erik
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > Von: David <parked@>
                                > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >  
                                > > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                > >
                                > > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                > > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                > >
                                > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > No worries, David,
                                > > >
                                > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                > > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                > > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                > > >
                                > > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                > > >
                                > > > regards, Erik
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ________________________________
                                > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                > > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >  
                                > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                > > >
                                > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                > > >
                                > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hey,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                > > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > regards,
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                              • David
                                Erik, I saw the proto-typing guide for Interlingua on the internet many years ago, sorry I don t remember where. The example word they used was oculo (eye).
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 8, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Erik, I saw the proto-typing guide for Interlingua on the internet many years ago, sorry I don't remember where. The example word they used was "oculo" (eye). Interesting because it's a word where the Romance cognates have diverged rather a lot.

                                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hey David,
                                  >
                                  > > I have already read a lot about the guidelines for
                                  > > making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.
                                  >
                                  > Does there excists some core ressource of that guidelines? Or is it
                                  > scattered in multiple places? I ask because of that Carlos mainly tries
                                  > to develop that Modern-Indoeuropean that way to compile language
                                  > research papers into that one final language concept of MIE. He even
                                  > marks that all of his linguistic of Proto-Indoeuropean he put of
                                  > research papers. Being Spanish native he studied English. So, he started
                                  > at novice to create naturalistic MIE dialect language. Hhm.
                                  >
                                  > http://dnghu.org/en/European-Union-Language-Policy/ (MIE manifest)
                                  > http://indo-european.info/indoeuropean/ (Blog)

                                  I am actually not a big fan of complicated grammars. Case systems, and verb conjugations much more complex than English leave me cold. I believe that the creators of Modern Indo-European are hoping that Europeans will take pride in mastering M-I-E's complex grammar, in the same way that new citizens of Israel take pride in learning Hebrew (not one of the easiest languages I hear)



                                  >
                                  > > I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a
                                  > > pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a
                                  > > Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons: Interlingua
                                  > > etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar
                                  > > Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of
                                  > > Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the
                                  > > ancestor of the Germanic languages.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks, David. I'm not specialist at this matter. But Stanley A. Mulaik
                                  > reasoning similar:
                                  >
                                  > Page 259: "...
                                  > The importance of cognate relations is central to the concept of
                                  > Interlingua. The eligibility of words to be international depends on
                                  > their being cognate in at least three languages, in other words, that
                                  > their similarity is because they have a common ancestor.
                                  >
                                  > Now, one might ask whether we could develop a language with elements
                                  > common to all of the IndoEuropean languages. While in principle that
                                  > might be possible, the result would not be very useful because the
                                  > common forms would be unrecognizeable by most speakers today. And the
                                  > vocabulary would be very limited. Furthermore languages that are wideley
                                  > separated in the IndoEuropean network may have few words in common. What
                                  > makes a language distinct is the development of unique forms of speech.
                                  > A slightly more pausible idea would be to develop a pan-Germanic
                                  > language or a pan-Slavic language. That has been attempted, but their
                                  > usefulness is confined principally to Germanic and Slavic speakers,
                                  > respectively. The Romanic group centered on Latin is more plausible
                                  > approach to developing an international language because the influence
                                  > of Latin (regarding broadly) is nont confined just to descendents of
                                  > Latin but extends to other language groups like the Germanic and Slavic
                                  > languages that have borrowed extensivly from Latin and Romance
                                  > vocabularies. The languages in the Romanic group are also less remote
                                  > with respect to another and words have not been drastically distorted by
                                  > phonemic change.
                                  > ..."
                                  >
                                  > ( http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet )
                                  >
                                  > > Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the
                                  > > records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.
                                  >
                                  > Carlos (project leader of MIE) also mentioned that.
                                  >
                                  > > Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a
                                  > > useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on
                                  > > Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way.
                                  >
                                  > Hhm. Could Carlos put such much work into something what will useless in
                                  > future? Maybe that book Indo-European Grammar could be interesting for
                                  > you. If you like I can send you his email adresse. Could be interesting
                                  > special field discussion(?)
                                  >
                                  > http://indo-european.info/
                                  >
                                  > > Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For
                                  > > example the etymological prototype for all those words with
                                  > > instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still
                                  > > retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big
                                  > > Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many
                                  > > language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't
                                  > > a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.
                                  >
                                  > Sorry, I have to confess, that I have not that special knowledge to
                                  > follow up to disucss that.
                                  >
                                  > > For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that
                                  > > represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major
                                  > > modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for
                                  > > example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua
                                  > > method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar
                                  > > proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a
                                  > > Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.
                                  >
                                  > Hey, thats cool:-) It would be very interesting to have some kind of
                                  > common discussion panel of you (Folksprak), Josu Lavin (Interlingua),
                                  > Vojta Merunka (Neoslavonic-Interslavic) and other Interslavic folks, and
                                  > Carlos Quiles (Modern Indoeuropean). If you like I can send you email
                                  > adresses of that persons.
                                  >
                                  > > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I
                                  > > have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the
                                  > > Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the
                                  > > commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original
                                  > > source word. I started doing this because the average form of
                                  > > Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian
                                  > > form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian
                                  > > :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing
                                  > > on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and
                                  > > Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                  >
                                  > So, it first will "need" two different con-lang dialects of Germanic
                                  > languages to develop Folksprak? Or will your Scandinavian auxlang will
                                  > be base for Folksprak?
                                  >
                                  > regards, Erik
                                  >
                                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks Erik.
                                  > > I have already read a lot about the guidelines for making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.
                                  > >
                                  > > I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons:
                                  > > Interlingua etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the ancestor of the Germanic languages.
                                  > >
                                  > > Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.
                                  > > Latin never really died out. It continues to this day in a zombie-like undead existence. For one thing it was written down. For another thing, even after the Romance languages had diverged into separate languages, Latin continued to be used by educated people throughout Europe. It continued to influence Romance languages and be used as a source of new vocabulary in many many languages, right up to the present day. And not just used this way by Romance languages, but even by non-European languages such as Indonesian, Tagalog and Turkish.
                                  > >
                                  > > Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way. Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For example the etymological prototype for all those words with instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.
                                  > >
                                  > > For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original source word. I started doing this because the average form of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Okay, David,
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > regards, Erik
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ________________________________
                                  > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                  > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                  > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >  
                                  > > > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                  > > > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > No worries, David,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                  > > > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                  > > > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > regards, Erik
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ________________________________
                                  > > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                  > > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                  > > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >  
                                  > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Hey,
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                  > > > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                  > > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > regards,
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • David
                                  ... No, SamSkandinavisk is not being developed as a dialect of Folksprak or as a basis for Folksprak. It s just intended for use in the Nordic countries. It s
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 8, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    >
                                    > > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I
                                    > > have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the
                                    > > Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the
                                    > > commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original
                                    > > source word. I started doing this because the average form of
                                    > > Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian
                                    > > form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian
                                    > > :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing
                                    > > on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and
                                    > > Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                    >
                                    > So, it first will "need" two different con-lang dialects of Germanic
                                    > languages to develop Folksprak? Or will your Scandinavian auxlang will
                                    > be base for Folksprak?
                                    >
                                    > regards, Erik
                                    >

                                    No, SamSkandinavisk is not being developed as a dialect of Folksprak or as a basis for Folksprak. It's just intended for use in the Nordic countries. It's intended to offer a neutral standardized Scandinavian language that Scandies can learn help them talk to each other. It's an alternative to them almost understanding each other, sometimes pretending to NOT understand each other and sometimes resorting to English. Some experience and hard lessons from Folksprak have gone into it. I think that the ideal of Folksprak is very difficult to achieve -- the Germanic languages are quite diverse. It's often a struggle to find a common word for some very basic concepts. With SamSkandinavisk, I am working on something that is most definitely doable!
                                  • Erik
                                    No worries, David, Stanley A. Mulaik tried to full that information gap about extraction method of Interlingua. At page 15 he mentioned: ... Together Stillman
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 8, 2012
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                                      No worries, David,

                                      Stanley A. Mulaik tried to full that information gap about extraction method of Interlingua. At page 15 he mentioned:

                                      "... Together Stillman and Gode produced in 1943 a two volume manuscript, titled "Interlinguistic Standardization", that set out the objective methodology for the extraction and standardization of the international vocabulary, to be entered in a dictionary, and for a minimal grammar for use of the vocabulary as a language. In 1951 when the IED was published, its Introduction laid out a brief outline of the methods and principles by which the international vocabulary was to be extracted from a group of European languages..."

                                      Etc. someones can read more at regarding pages http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet | folder "Mulaik_Stanley_A_Interlingua_Grammar_and_Method" | file "Mulaik_Stanley_A_Chapter_1.zip" . Its only around 15 x A5 pages.

                                      In general, inside Stanley's book, in my opinion layout could be more professional. I.e. bold marking is very used to often which makes reading for non-English natives somewhat difficult.

                                      regards, Erik




                                      ________________________________
                                      Von: David <parked@...>
                                      An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      Gesendet: 12:55 Samstag, 8.Dezember 2012
                                      Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                                       
                                      Erik, I saw the proto-typing guide for Interlingua on the internet many years ago, sorry I don't remember where. The example word they used was "oculo" (eye). Interesting because it's a word where the Romance cognates have diverged rather a lot.

                                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hey David,
                                      >
                                      > > I have already read a lot about the guidelines for
                                      > > making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.
                                      >
                                      > Does there excists some core ressource of that guidelines? Or is it
                                      > scattered in multiple places? I ask because of that Carlos mainly tries
                                      > to develop that Modern-Indoeuropean that way to compile language
                                      > research papers into that one final language concept of MIE. He even
                                      > marks that all of his linguistic of Proto-Indoeuropean he put of
                                      > research papers. Being Spanish native he studied English. So, he started
                                      > at novice to create naturalistic MIE dialect language. Hhm.
                                      >
                                      > http://dnghu.org/en/European-Union-Language-Policy/ (MIE manifest)
                                      > http://indo-european.info/indoeuropean/ (Blog)

                                      I am actually not a big fan of complicated grammars. Case systems, and verb conjugations much more complex than English leave me cold. I believe that the creators of Modern Indo-European are hoping that Europeans will take pride in mastering M-I-E's complex grammar, in the same way that new citizens of Israel take pride in learning Hebrew (not one of the easiest languages I hear)

                                      >
                                      > > I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a
                                      > > pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a
                                      > > Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons: Interlingua
                                      > > etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar
                                      > > Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of
                                      > > Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the
                                      > > ancestor of the Germanic languages.
                                      >
                                      > Thanks, David. I'm not specialist at this matter. But Stanley A. Mulaik
                                      > reasoning similar:
                                      >
                                      > Page 259: "...
                                      > The importance of cognate relations is central to the concept of
                                      > Interlingua. The eligibility of words to be international depends on
                                      > their being cognate in at least three languages, in other words, that
                                      > their similarity is because they have a common ancestor.
                                      >
                                      > Now, one might ask whether we could develop a language with elements
                                      > common to all of the IndoEuropean languages. While in principle that
                                      > might be possible, the result would not be very useful because the
                                      > common forms would be unrecognizeable by most speakers today. And the
                                      > vocabulary would be very limited. Furthermore languages that are wideley
                                      > separated in the IndoEuropean network may have few words in common. What
                                      > makes a language distinct is the development of unique forms of speech.
                                      > A slightly more pausible idea would be to develop a pan-Germanic
                                      > language or a pan-Slavic language. That has been attempted, but their
                                      > usefulness is confined principally to Germanic and Slavic speakers,
                                      > respectively. The Romanic group centered on Latin is more plausible
                                      > approach to developing an international language because the influence
                                      > of Latin (regarding broadly) is nont confined just to descendents of
                                      > Latin but extends to other language groups like the Germanic and Slavic
                                      > languages that have borrowed extensivly from Latin and Romance
                                      > vocabularies. The languages in the Romanic group are also less remote
                                      > with respect to another and words have not been drastically distorted by
                                      > phonemic change.
                                      > ..."
                                      >
                                      > ( http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet )
                                      >
                                      > > Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the
                                      > > records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.
                                      >
                                      > Carlos (project leader of MIE) also mentioned that.
                                      >
                                      > > Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a
                                      > > useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on
                                      > > Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way.
                                      >
                                      > Hhm. Could Carlos put such much work into something what will useless in
                                      > future? Maybe that book Indo-European Grammar could be interesting for
                                      > you. If you like I can send you his email adresse. Could be interesting
                                      > special field discussion(?)
                                      >
                                      > http://indo-european.info/
                                      >
                                      > > Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For
                                      > > example the etymological prototype for all those words with
                                      > > instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still
                                      > > retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big
                                      > > Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many
                                      > > language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't
                                      > > a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.
                                      >
                                      > Sorry, I have to confess, that I have not that special knowledge to
                                      > follow up to disucss that.
                                      >
                                      > > For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that
                                      > > represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major
                                      > > modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for
                                      > > example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua
                                      > > method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar
                                      > > proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a
                                      > > Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.
                                      >
                                      > Hey, thats cool:-) It would be very interesting to have some kind of
                                      > common discussion panel of you (Folksprak), Josu Lavin (Interlingua),
                                      > Vojta Merunka (Neoslavonic-Interslavic) and other Interslavic folks, and
                                      > Carlos Quiles (Modern Indoeuropean). If you like I can send you email
                                      > adresses of that persons.
                                      >
                                      > > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I
                                      > > have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the
                                      > > Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the
                                      > > commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original
                                      > > source word. I started doing this because the average form of
                                      > > Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian
                                      > > form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian
                                      > > :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing
                                      > > on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and
                                      > > Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                      >
                                      > So, it first will "need" two different con-lang dialects of Germanic
                                      > languages to develop Folksprak? Or will your Scandinavian auxlang will
                                      > be base for Folksprak?
                                      >
                                      > regards, Erik
                                      >
                                      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks Erik.
                                      > > I have already read a lot about the guidelines for making words in Interlingua based on the etymological prototype.
                                      > >
                                      > > I think that it's a good idea for determining the form of words in a pan-Romance, pan-european auxlang. But I've looked into it for a Germanic auxlang, and it's not so good for a few reasons:
                                      > > Interlingua etymological prototypes are often very close to Latin, or vulgar Latin, the ancestral language of the Romance languages. The status of Latin is very very different to the status of Proto-Germanic, the ancestor of the Germanic languages.
                                      > >
                                      > > Latin was written down -- a lot! PG was never written down, and the records of the earliest Germanic languages are rare and fragmentary.
                                      > > Latin never really died out. It continues to this day in a zombie-like undead existence. For one thing it was written down. For another thing, even after the Romance languages had diverged into separate languages, Latin continued to be used by educated people throughout Europe. It continued to influence Romance languages and be used as a source of new vocabulary in many many languages, right up to the present day. And not just used this way by Romance languages, but even by non-European languages such as Indonesian, Tagalog and Turkish.
                                      > >
                                      > > Making an auxlang with words that resemble Latin words, is still a useful idea. Making an auxlang with words that are based on Proto-germanic doesn't make sense in the same way. Not even if designed for use by Germanic language speakers. For example the etymological prototype for all those words with instances of PG *þ would still be *þ, because that phoneme is still retained by English. But that sound isn't used in any other big Germanic languages (Icelandic isn't big!) And it's a sound that many language learners find difficult to master. And Proto-Germanic isn't a language that most people are constantly being exposed to.
                                      > >
                                      > > For Folksprak, and for Frenkisch, I've instead tried for forms that represent a compromise between or average of the forms of the major modern Germanic languages. So PG *þ has evolved to [t] or [d] for example. I've considered making a conlang based on the Interlingua method and use forms that are close to Proto-Germanic (or vulgar proto-germanic). I'm not convinced that it's the best way to go for a Germanic auxlang designed with instant recognition in mind.
                                      > >
                                      > > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original source word. I started doing this because the average form of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Okay, David,
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > regards, Erik
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ________________________________
                                      > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                      > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                      > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >  
                                      > > > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                      > > > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > No worries, David,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                      > > > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                      > > > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > regards, Erik
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ________________________________
                                      > > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                      > > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                      > > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >  
                                      > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Hey,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                      > > > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                      > > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > regards,
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Erik
                                      I see, David, ... Thanks for inform about that. Seems to be completely different to Slavic languages for which claimed by Interslavic community:
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 8, 2012
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                                        I see, David,

                                        > I think that the ideal of Folksprak is very difficult to achieve --
                                        > the Germanic languages are quite diverse.

                                        Thanks for inform about that. Seems to be completely different to Slavic languages for which claimed by Interslavic community:

                                        http://www.neoslavonic.org/


                                        > Because our Slavic languages all derive from that common Proto-Slavic
                                        > tongue, knowledge of one Slavic language will often allow one to have
                                        > at least a rough understanding of text written in another Slavic
                                        > language - but not sufficiently enough to achieve a strong
                                        > comprehension. This fact has inspired linguists and others over the
                                        > centuries to attempt to create a universal Slavic language that would
                                        > be more understandable to all Slavs.


                                        regards, Erik



                                        ________________________________
                                        Von: David <parked@...>
                                        An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                        Gesendet: 13:02 Samstag, 8.Dezember 2012
                                        Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!


                                         
                                        >
                                        > > I'm also working on a common Scandinavian auxlang, and for that I
                                        > > have based the forms on the etymological prototype (following the
                                        > > Interlingua method). This means that the form isn't necessarily the
                                        > > commonest average form, but the form that is closest to the original
                                        > > source word. I started doing this because the average form of
                                        > > Danish, Norwegian and Swedish was mostly identical to the Norwegian
                                        > > form. I didn't want to spend a lot of time re-inventing Norwegian
                                        > > :-) Instead I've made a "neutral" 4th Scandinavian language. Basing
                                        > > on the prototype form, also admits more Nynorsk and
                                        > > Icelandic-looking forms to show through.
                                        >
                                        > So, it first will "need" two different con-lang dialects of Germanic
                                        > languages to develop Folksprak? Or will your Scandinavian auxlang will
                                        > be base for Folksprak?
                                        >
                                        > regards, Erik
                                        >

                                        No, SamSkandinavisk is not being developed as a dialect of Folksprak or as a basis for Folksprak. It's just intended for use in the Nordic countries. It's intended to offer a neutral standardized Scandinavian language that Scandies can learn help them talk to each other. It's an alternative to them almost understanding each other, sometimes pretending to NOT understand each other and sometimes resorting to English. Some experience and hard lessons from Folksprak have gone into it. I think that the ideal of Folksprak is very difficult to achieve -- the Germanic languages are quite diverse. It's often a struggle to find a common word for some very basic concepts. With SamSkandinavisk, I am working on something that is most definitely doable!




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • nordslesviger
                                        ... Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-) Correct Danish would be: Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 12, 2012
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                                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                          > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                          >

                                          Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)

                                          Correct Danish would be:
                                          Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.

                                          Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                        • David
                                          I m glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility. BTW, here is the same text in my SamSkandinavisk conlang: (actually
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Dec 12, 2012
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                                            I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                            BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)

                                            Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!

                                            A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)

                                            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                            > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                            >
                                            > Correct Danish would be:
                                            > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                            >
                                            > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                            >
                                          • nordslesviger
                                            It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in slog forstaden Hobsonville . Slog can both be hit and beat (=punish). Ramte
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Dec 13, 2012
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                                              It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in "slog forstaden Hobsonville". "Slog" can both be "hit" and "beat"(=punish). "Ramte" would be better (from: at ramme).

                                              Well, I don't really see the point in making a common Scandinavian language more or less the same way as Interlingua is made. We understand one another quite well, if we want to :-)

                                              If it is a languages for Scandinavians, a much better way would be to take one of the Scandinavian languages (Perhaps Swedish because of the number of speakers) and then only change the words that are know to be misunderstood by speakers of the other languages.

                                              If it is a languages for foreigners then I think a simplified grammar would be much more needed than anything else. (I am married to a foreigner).



                                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                              > BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)
                                              >
                                              > Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!
                                              >
                                              > A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)
                                              >
                                              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                              > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                              > >
                                              > > Correct Danish would be:
                                              > > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                              > >
                                              > > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • David
                                              With slå/slog/slaget, the English word I was trying to translate was strike . For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Dec 13, 2012
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                                                With slå/slog/slaget, the English word I was trying to translate was "strike".

                                                For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.

                                                Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.

                                                But conversely, any feature that is common to all three is included regardless of whether it is irregular or difficult or not.

                                                This means that the grammar of SamSkandinavisk will, in theory, be simpler than the natural Scandy languages. But not by very much as it happens. Features that are common to all 3 tongues still let through some truly delightful irregularities.

                                                Take for example the SamSkandinavisk adjective liten:
                                                liten a. diminutive, little, small, fine, lower-case (letter), short, young.
                                                Indefinite common singular = liten [ˈliːtən]; indefinite neuter = litet [ˈliːtət], definite singular = lille [ˈlɪlːə]; definite and indefinite plural = smÃ¥ [smÉ"ː]; comparative = mindre [ˈmɪnː(d)rə]; superlative = minst [mɪnːst]

                                                Complicated enough?


                                                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in "slog forstaden Hobsonville". "Slog" can both be "hit" and "beat"(=punish). "Ramte" would be better (from: at ramme).
                                                >
                                                > Well, I don't really see the point in making a common Scandinavian language more or less the same way as Interlingua is made. We understand one another quite well, if we want to :-)
                                                >
                                                > If it is a languages for Scandinavians, a much better way would be to take one of the Scandinavian languages (Perhaps Swedish because of the number of speakers) and then only change the words that are know to be misunderstood by speakers of the other languages.
                                                >
                                                > If it is a languages for foreigners then I think a simplified grammar would be much more needed than anything else. (I am married to a foreigner).
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                                > > BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)
                                                > >
                                                > > Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!
                                                > >
                                                > > A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Correct Danish would be:
                                                > > > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • David
                                                It turns out the my Samska ordbok already has ramme , it means to hit or to affect. It would perhaps be appropriate. affect sounds elegantly understated :-)
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Dec 13, 2012
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                                                  It turns out the my Samska ordbok already has "ramme", it means to hit or to affect. It would perhaps be appropriate. "affect" sounds elegantly understated :-)

                                                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > With slå/slog/slaget, the English word I was trying to translate was "strike".
                                                  >
                                                  > For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.
                                                  >
                                                  > Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.
                                                  >
                                                  > But conversely, any feature that is common to all three is included regardless of whether it is irregular or difficult or not.
                                                  >
                                                  > This means that the grammar of SamSkandinavisk will, in theory, be simpler than the natural Scandy languages. But not by very much as it happens. Features that are common to all 3 tongues still let through some truly delightful irregularities.
                                                  >
                                                  > Take for example the SamSkandinavisk adjective liten:
                                                  > liten a. diminutive, little, small, fine, lower-case (letter), short, young.
                                                  > Indefinite common singular = liten [ˈliːtən]; indefinite neuter = litet [ˈliːtət], definite singular = lille [ˈlɪlːə]; definite and indefinite plural = smÃ¥ [smÉ"ː]; comparative = mindre [ˈmɪnː(d)rə]; superlative = minst [mɪnːst]
                                                  >
                                                  > Complicated enough?
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in "slog forstaden Hobsonville". "Slog" can both be "hit" and "beat"(=punish). "Ramte" would be better (from: at ramme).
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Well, I don't really see the point in making a common Scandinavian language more or less the same way as Interlingua is made. We understand one another quite well, if we want to :-)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > If it is a languages for Scandinavians, a much better way would be to take one of the Scandinavian languages (Perhaps Swedish because of the number of speakers) and then only change the words that are know to be misunderstood by speakers of the other languages.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > If it is a languages for foreigners then I think a simplified grammar would be much more needed than anything else. (I am married to a foreigner).
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                                  > > > BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                  > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Correct Danish would be:
                                                  > > > > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • nordslesviger
                                                  Well, knowing quite a few foreigners I would say the most difficult in Danish are: 1. Vocal changes like en fod / to f�dder (one foot two feet) or
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Dec 14, 2012
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                                                    Well, knowing quite a few foreigners I would say the most difficult in Danish are:

                                                    1. Vocal changes like "en fod" / "to fødder" (one foot two feet) or "slå"/"slog" etc.

                                                    2. Grammatical gender "En" and "et" and the "-t" on adjectives like in "en rød bil" / "et rødt hus" (one red car one red house).

                                                    3. The way we use prepositions. We say direct translated "early on the morning, not "in" etc.

                                                    4. Even Danes can't remember to put "-r" at the end on present tense verbs or when to use "hans" or "sin".



                                                    --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > It turns out the my Samska ordbok already has "ramme", it means to hit or to affect. It would perhaps be appropriate. "affect" sounds elegantly understated :-)
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > With slå/slog/slaget, the English word I was trying to translate was "strike".
                                                    > >
                                                    > > For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > But conversely, any feature that is common to all three is included regardless of whether it is irregular or difficult or not.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > This means that the grammar of SamSkandinavisk will, in theory, be simpler than the natural Scandy languages. But not by very much as it happens. Features that are common to all 3 tongues still let through some truly delightful irregularities.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Take for example the SamSkandinavisk adjective liten:
                                                    > > liten a. diminutive, little, small, fine, lower-case (letter), short, young.
                                                    > > Indefinite common singular = liten [ˈliːtən]; indefinite neuter = litet [ˈliːtət], definite singular = lille [ˈlɪlːə]; definite and indefinite plural = smÃ¥ [smÉ"ː]; comparative = mindre [ˈmɪnː(d)rə]; superlative = minst [mɪnːst]
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Complicated enough?
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in "slog forstaden Hobsonville". "Slog" can both be "hit" and "beat"(=punish). "Ramte" would be better (from: at ramme).
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Well, I don't really see the point in making a common Scandinavian language more or less the same way as Interlingua is made. We understand one another quite well, if we want to :-)
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > If it is a languages for Scandinavians, a much better way would be to take one of the Scandinavian languages (Perhaps Swedish because of the number of speakers) and then only change the words that are know to be misunderstood by speakers of the other languages.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > If it is a languages for foreigners then I think a simplified grammar would be much more needed than anything else. (I am married to a foreigner).
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                                    > > > > BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                    > > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                    > > > > > >
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Correct Danish would be:
                                                    > > > > > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > > > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                                    > > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                  • Erik
                                                    Hey, ... So that design philosophy seems to be Lowest common denominator (kleinste gemeinsame Nenner) applied at linguistic matter.
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Dec 15, 2012
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                                                      Hey,

                                                      > For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.

                                                      So that design philosophy seems to be "Lowest common denominator" (kleinste gemeinsame Nenner) applied at linguistic matter.

                                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest_common_denominator#Non-mathematical_usage

                                                      A revider, Erik

                                                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > With slå/slog/slaget, the English word I was trying to translate was "strike".
                                                      >
                                                      > For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.
                                                      >
                                                      > Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.
                                                      >
                                                      > But conversely, any feature that is common to all three is included regardless of whether it is irregular or difficult or not.
                                                      >
                                                      > This means that the grammar of SamSkandinavisk will, in theory, be simpler than the natural Scandy languages. But not by very much as it happens. Features that are common to all 3 tongues still let through some truly delightful irregularities.
                                                      >
                                                      > Take for example the SamSkandinavisk adjective liten:
                                                      > liten a. diminutive, little, small, fine, lower-case (letter), short, young.
                                                      > Indefinite common singular = liten [ˈliːtən]; indefinite neuter = litet [ˈliːtət], definite singular = lille [ˈlɪlːə]; definite and indefinite plural = små [sm�"ː]; comparative = mindre [ˈmɪnː(d)rə]; superlative = minst [mɪnːst]
                                                      >
                                                      > Complicated enough?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in "slog forstaden Hobsonville". "Slog" can both be "hit" and "beat"(=punish). "Ramte" would be better (from: at ramme).
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Well, I don't really see the point in making a common Scandinavian language more or less the same way as Interlingua is made. We understand one another quite well, if we want to :-)
                                                      > >
                                                      > > If it is a languages for Scandinavians, a much better way would be to take one of the Scandinavian languages (Perhaps Swedish because of the number of speakers) and then only change the words that are know to be misunderstood by speakers of the other languages.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > If it is a languages for foreigners then I think a simplified grammar would be much more needed than anything else. (I am married to a foreigner).
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                                      > > > BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                      > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                      > > > > >
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Correct Danish would be:
                                                      > > > > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > > > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                                      > > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                    • David
                                                      Yes exactly the lowest common denominator is what I m intending. One example is all of my Scandinavian source languages have strong verbs, so SamSkandinavisk
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Dec 15, 2012
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                                                        Yes exactly the lowest common denominator is what I'm intending.
                                                        One example is all of my Scandinavian source languages have strong verbs, so SamSkandinavisk does also. But I've been deciding on a case-by-case basis which to make strong and which to make regular. The criteria is if any one of the sources has moved from strong verb to regular, then I shall regularize the verb.
                                                        For example. "drive" is a strong verb -- past tense "drev", past participle "drevet". It's cognates in Danish, Norwegian and Swedish are all strong.
                                                        In the case of "slipe", it's cognate is strong in Danish (slibe, sleb, slebet), but weak in Norwegian and Swedish, so I've made it regular and weak.
                                                        In the case of "treffe", it cognate is strong in Danish (træffe/traf, truffet) and Norwegian (treffe/traff/truffet). But it's weak in Swedish. Even though the majority of the source languages have a strong verb, a single language is enough to change it to regular.

                                                        In theory this approach should tend to make SamSkandinavisk easier than any of the natural Scandinavian languages. Or no more difficult than the easiest language. In practice -- not by much. The 3 languages very often share a feature that is irregular in all 3.
                                                        So I have so far got lots of irregular verbs, noun plurals and adjective declensions.

                                                        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Hey,
                                                        >
                                                        > > For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.
                                                        >
                                                        > So that design philosophy seems to be "Lowest common denominator" (kleinste gemeinsame Nenner) applied at linguistic matter.
                                                        >
                                                        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest_common_denominator#Non-mathematical_usage
                                                        >
                                                        > A revider, Erik
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > With slå/slog/slaget, the English word I was trying to translate was "strike".
                                                        > >
                                                        > > For Samskandinavisk, the design philosophy has been similar to that Interlingua.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Irregular features that are not common to all 3 major Scandy tongues have not been included.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > But conversely, any feature that is common to all three is included regardless of whether it is irregular or difficult or not.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > This means that the grammar of SamSkandinavisk will, in theory, be simpler than the natural Scandy languages. But not by very much as it happens. Features that are common to all 3 tongues still let through some truly delightful irregularities.
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Take for example the SamSkandinavisk adjective liten:
                                                        > > liten a. diminutive, little, small, fine, lower-case (letter), short, young.
                                                        > > Indefinite common singular = liten [ˈliːtən]; indefinite neuter = litet [ˈliːtət], definite singular = lille [ˈlɪlːə]; definite and indefinite plural = små [sm�"ː]; comparative = mindre [ˈmɪnː(d)rə]; superlative = minst [mɪnːst]
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Complicated enough?
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > It is also easy to understand for a Dane. But there is a small error in "slog forstaden Hobsonville". "Slog" can both be "hit" and "beat"(=punish). "Ramte" would be better (from: at ramme).
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > Well, I don't really see the point in making a common Scandinavian language more or less the same way as Interlingua is made. We understand one another quite well, if we want to :-)
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > If it is a languages for Scandinavians, a much better way would be to take one of the Scandinavian languages (Perhaps Swedish because of the number of speakers) and then only change the words that are know to be misunderstood by speakers of the other languages.
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > If it is a languages for foreigners then I think a simplified grammar would be much more needed than anything else. (I am married to a foreigner).
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > I'm glad that, even if not perfect, it falls within the bounds of mutual intelligibility.
                                                        > > > > BTW, here is the same text in my "SamSkandinavisk" conlang: (actually I've slightly expanded and improved on it.)
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > Tre personer i Auckland er døde efter en tornado slog førstaden Hobsonville. 150 hus ødelagdes eller blev allvårligt skadet. Det skede 15 km frå mitt hus!
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > A Norwegian conlanger could understand it, but denied it was anything like Norsk. He said I had wasted a lot of time because all I have done is re-invent Scanian :-)
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "nordslesviger" <nordslesviger@> wrote:
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                        > > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                        > > > > > >
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Amazing almost perfect Danish ;-)
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Correct Danish would be:
                                                        > > > > > Tre personer i Auckland er doede (døde) efter en virvelvind i forstaden Hobsonville. 150 huse er haeftigt (hæftigt) skadede. Det var 15 km fra mit hus.
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > > > Well "haeftigt" would be a bit unusual, but still easy to understand.
                                                        > > > > >
                                                        > > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                      • chamavian
                                                        Hei Erik, Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael West-Germanisch
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Dec 19, 2012
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                                                          Hei Erik,

                                                          Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis dokument over Middelspraak:

                                                          http://www.drentsetaol.nl/achtergronden/MIDDELSPRAKE%20CONCISE%20OUTLINES%20OF.d\
                                                          oc

                                                          een later, an-passed version is in de 'files section' af user FS grup


                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/files/MIDDELSPRAKE%20Concise%20Outlines\
                                                          .doc


                                                          On hir de forwising to de MS side:

                                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Middelsprake/

                                                          mid de begin-tekst:


                                                          Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.
                                                          For Engelisch sprekers MS is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch oller Swedisch.
                                                          MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on kenne nik een "umlaut".
                                                          Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files" afdeling.
                                                          Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/



                                                          Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder


                                                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > Okay, David,
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > regards, Erik
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > ________________________________
                                                          > Von: David <parked@...>
                                                          > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                                          > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >  
                                                          > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                                          >
                                                          > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                                          > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > No worries, David,
                                                          > >
                                                          > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                                          > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                                          > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                                          > >
                                                          > > regards, Erik
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ________________________________
                                                          > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                          > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                                          > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >  
                                                          > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Hey,
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                                          > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                          > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > regards,
                                                          > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          > >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          >
                                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          >
                                                        • Erik
                                                          Thanks. Some try to translate adhoc without much internal questioning. (Eine Art Sofortübersetzung und lange zu überlegen.) regards, Erik ... 1th encounter
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Dec 20, 2012
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                                                            Thanks. Some try to translate adhoc without much internal questioning. (Eine Art Sofortübersetzung und lange zu überlegen.)

                                                            regards, Erik

                                                            > Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat
                                                            > folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael
                                                            > West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on
                                                            > minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis
                                                            > dokument over Middelspraak:

                                                            1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:

                                                            Wenn du willst lernen einiges mehr über eine gemeinsame germanische Sprache dann folge der Interlingua-Methode, und habe nicht alleine von nationalen West-Germanischen Sprachen ???, ????, doch auch von Skandinavischen Sprache ?? Minderheitensprache wie Friesisch und Niedersächsisch, du kannst lesen dieses Dokument über Middelspraak(Vermittlersprache)

                                                            > Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered
                                                            > up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on
                                                            > regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike
                                                            > Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up
                                                            > Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer
                                                            > Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan
                                                            > direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter
                                                            > Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.

                                                            1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:

                                                            Middelspraak (kurz: MS) ist eine künstlich gemachte(erstellte) Sprache das(welche) basiert auf den wichtigsten lebendigen Germanischen Sprachen. Die Grammatik ist simpel und regelmäßig, was macht das leicht zu lernen. Man kann vergleichen Middelspraak mit Interlingua, der künstlichen Sprache basierend auf Latein/Romanisch, in dieser for die meisten Sprecher von allen möglichen(?) Sprachen, meint von einem MS Text ???...., ??? einig zu lernen zuerst. Die lebendige Germanische Sprache, unter Englisch hat rund 170 Millionen Sprecher.


                                                            > For Engelisch sprekers MS
                                                            > is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch
                                                            > oller Swedisch. MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig
                                                            > wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on
                                                            > kenne nik een "umlaut". Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's
                                                            > grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files"
                                                            > afdeling. Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne
                                                            > meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/

                                                            1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:

                                                            Für Englische Sprecher MS ist auch meistens leichter zu lernen ???, sagen (wir mal), Deutsch, Niederländisch oder Schwedisch. MS hat eine regelmäßige ??? (can not be understood without English proficiency), allen regelmäßig wortwördlich, allen ein einig ????, regelmäßige Mehrzahl und kennen nicht einen Umlaut. Du kannst finden aus mehr (mehr herausfinden) von der Sprache (seiner) Grammatik, Wortschatz, Texte, ???-Dokumente usw. in der "Files" Aufstellung. Middelspraak ist eine von den Varianten von Folkspraak,(.) Lerne mehr darüber (bei) http://...

                                                            > Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder

                                                            Mit freundlichen Grüßen von I.R.




                                                            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            > Hei Erik,
                                                            >
                                                            > Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis dokument over Middelspraak:
                                                            >
                                                            > http://www.drentsetaol.nl/achtergronden/MIDDELSPRAKE%20CONCISE%20OUTLINES%20OF.d\
                                                            > oc
                                                            >
                                                            > een later, an-passed version is in de 'files section' af user FS grup
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/files/MIDDELSPRAKE%20Concise%20Outlines\
                                                            > .doc
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > On hir de forwising to de MS side:
                                                            >
                                                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Middelsprake/
                                                            >
                                                            > mid de begin-tekst:
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.
                                                            > For Engelisch sprekers MS is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch oller Swedisch.
                                                            > MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on kenne nik een "umlaut".
                                                            > Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files" afdeling.
                                                            > Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Okay, David,
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > regards, Erik
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > ________________________________
                                                            > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                            > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                                            > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >  
                                                            > > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                                            > >
                                                            > > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                                            > > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                                            > >
                                                            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > No worries, David,
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                                            > > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                                            > > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > regards, Erik
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > ________________________________
                                                            > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                            > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                            > > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                                            > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >  
                                                            > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Hey,
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                            > > > > >
                                                            > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                                            > > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                            > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > > > regards,
                                                            > > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > >
                                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            > > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > >
                                                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            > >
                                                            >
                                                          • chamavian
                                                            Good translation Eric. A few remarks about thinks you couldn t translate at first sight: MS de means German der-die-das-den-dem (the), and not von (of) MS
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Dec 21, 2012
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                                                              Good translation Eric. A few remarks about thinks you couldn't translate at first sight:
                                                              MS "de" means German der-die-das-den-dem (the), and not von (of)
                                                              MS "spelling" is not just based on English, but Dutch too (spelling)
                                                              MS "as brun" = als Quelle (as its source)
                                                              MS "on" = und (and)
                                                              MS "uter" = ohne (without)
                                                              MS "luud-dokumente" = Tondokumente (sound files)

                                                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@...> wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              > Thanks. Some try to translate adhoc without much internal questioning. (Eine Art Sofortübersetzung und lange zu überlegen.)
                                                              >
                                                              > regards, Erik
                                                              >
                                                              > > Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat
                                                              > > folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael
                                                              > > West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on
                                                              > > minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis
                                                              > > dokument over Middelspraak:
                                                              >
                                                              > 1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:
                                                              >
                                                              > Wenn du willst lernen einiges mehr über eine gemeinsame germanische Sprache dann folge der Interlingua-Methode, und habe nicht alleine von nationalen West-Germanischen Sprachen ???, ????, doch auch von Skandinavischen Sprache ?? Minderheitensprache wie Friesisch und Niedersächsisch, du kannst lesen dieses Dokument über Middelspraak(Vermittlersprache)
                                                              >
                                                              > > Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered
                                                              > > up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on
                                                              > > regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike
                                                              > > Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up
                                                              > > Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer
                                                              > > Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan
                                                              > > direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter
                                                              > > Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.
                                                              >
                                                              > 1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:
                                                              >
                                                              > Middelspraak (kurz: MS) ist eine künstlich gemachte(erstellte) Sprache das(welche) basiert auf den wichtigsten lebendigen Germanischen Sprachen. Die Grammatik ist simpel und regelmäßig, was macht das leicht zu lernen. Man kann vergleichen Middelspraak mit Interlingua, der künstlichen Sprache basierend auf Latein/Romanisch, in dieser for die meisten Sprecher von allen möglichen(?) Sprachen, meint von einem MS Text ???...., ??? einig zu lernen zuerst. Die lebendige Germanische Sprache, unter Englisch hat rund 170 Millionen Sprecher.
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > > For Engelisch sprekers MS
                                                              > > is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch
                                                              > > oller Swedisch. MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig
                                                              > > wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on
                                                              > > kenne nik een "umlaut". Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's
                                                              > > grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files"
                                                              > > afdeling. Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne
                                                              > > meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
                                                              >
                                                              > 1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:
                                                              >
                                                              > Für Englische Sprecher MS ist auch meistens leichter zu lernen ???, sagen (wir mal), Deutsch, Niederländisch oder Schwedisch. MS hat eine regelmäßige ??? (can not be understood without English proficiency), allen regelmäßig wortwördlich, allen ein einig ????, regelmäßige Mehrzahl und kennen nicht einen Umlaut. Du kannst finden aus mehr (mehr herausfinden) von der Sprache (seiner) Grammatik, Wortschatz, Texte, ???-Dokumente usw. in der "Files" Aufstellung. Middelspraak ist eine von den Varianten von Folkspraak,(.) Lerne mehr darüber (bei) http://...
                                                              >
                                                              > > Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder
                                                              >
                                                              > Mit freundlichen Grüßen von I.R.
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              >
                                                              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Hei Erik,
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis dokument over Middelspraak:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > http://www.drentsetaol.nl/achtergronden/MIDDELSPRAKE%20CONCISE%20OUTLINES%20OF.d\
                                                              > > oc
                                                              > >
                                                              > > een later, an-passed version is in de 'files section' af user FS grup
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/files/MIDDELSPRAKE%20Concise%20Outlines\
                                                              > > .doc
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > On hir de forwising to de MS side:
                                                              > >
                                                              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Middelsprake/
                                                              > >
                                                              > > mid de begin-tekst:
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.
                                                              > > For Engelisch sprekers MS is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch oller Swedisch.
                                                              > > MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on kenne nik een "umlaut".
                                                              > > Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files" afdeling.
                                                              > > Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder
                                                              > >
                                                              > >
                                                              > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Okay, David,
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > regards, Erik
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > ________________________________
                                                              > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                              > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                                              > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >  
                                                              > > > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                                              > > > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > No worries, David,
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                                              > > > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                                              > > > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > regards, Erik
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > ________________________________
                                                              > > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                              > > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                              > > > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                                              > > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >  
                                                              > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Hey,
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                              > > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                                              > > > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                              > > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > > > regards,
                                                              > > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > >
                                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                              > > >
                                                              > >
                                                              >
                                                            • Erik
                                                              ... Hhm, that use of de I feel strange to. De triggers me to German von der like: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_der_Leyen ... I once meet somebody
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Dec 22, 2012
                                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                                > MS "de" means German der-die-das-den-dem (the), and not von (of)

                                                                Hhm, that use of "de" I feel strange to. "De" triggers me to German "von der" like:

                                                                http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_der_Leyen

                                                                > MS "spelling" is not just based on English, but Dutch too (spelling)

                                                                I once meet somebody Native near English Scottish border. He spoke English "cup" with German pronouncation. Not "u" like German "a".

                                                                > MS "as brun" = als Quelle (as its source)

                                                                Ah, okay. Now I got it. Its seems to be cognate to "(als) der Brunnen" which was first source for drinking water in Middle Ages.

                                                                > MS "on" = und (and)

                                                                Sounds Sviss German(?) pronounced like "ohnd" = "und".

                                                                > MS "uter" = ohne (without)

                                                                > MS "luud-dokumente" = Tondokumente (sound files)

                                                                Okay, now I got it. Cognates to some old-fashion German "Laut-Dokumente". "Der Laut/ der Ton".

                                                                Sorry about my non-linguistic comments. But its how I got it adhoc.

                                                                regards, Erik



                                                                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > Good translation Eric. A few remarks about thinks you couldn't translate at first sight:
                                                                > MS "de" means German der-die-das-den-dem (the), and not von (of)
                                                                > MS "spelling" is not just based on English, but Dutch too (spelling)
                                                                > MS "as brun" = als Quelle (as its source)
                                                                > MS "on" = und (and)
                                                                > MS "uter" = ohne (without)
                                                                > MS "luud-dokumente" = Tondokumente (sound files)
                                                                >
                                                                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Thanks. Some try to translate adhoc without much internal questioning. (Eine Art Sofortübersetzung und lange zu überlegen.)
                                                                > >
                                                                > > regards, Erik
                                                                > >
                                                                > > > Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat
                                                                > > > folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael
                                                                > > > West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on
                                                                > > > minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis
                                                                > > > dokument over Middelspraak:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > 1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Wenn du willst lernen einiges mehr über eine gemeinsame germanische Sprache dann folge der Interlingua-Methode, und habe nicht alleine von nationalen West-Germanischen Sprachen ???, ????, doch auch von Skandinavischen Sprache ?? Minderheitensprache wie Friesisch und Niedersächsisch, du kannst lesen dieses Dokument über Middelspraak(Vermittlersprache)
                                                                > >
                                                                > > > Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered
                                                                > > > up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on
                                                                > > > regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike
                                                                > > > Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up
                                                                > > > Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer
                                                                > > > Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan
                                                                > > > direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter
                                                                > > > Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.
                                                                > >
                                                                > > 1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Middelspraak (kurz: MS) ist eine künstlich gemachte(erstellte) Sprache das(welche) basiert auf den wichtigsten lebendigen Germanischen Sprachen. Die Grammatik ist simpel und regelmäßig, was macht das leicht zu lernen. Man kann vergleichen Middelspraak mit Interlingua, der künstlichen Sprache basierend auf Latein/Romanisch, in dieser for die meisten Sprecher von allen möglichen(?) Sprachen, meint von einem MS Text ???...., ??? einig zu lernen zuerst. Die lebendige Germanische Sprache, unter Englisch hat rund 170 Millionen Sprecher.
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > > > For Engelisch sprekers MS
                                                                > > > is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch
                                                                > > > oller Swedisch. MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig
                                                                > > > wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on
                                                                > > > kenne nik een "umlaut". Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's
                                                                > > > grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files"
                                                                > > > afdeling. Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne
                                                                > > > meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
                                                                > >
                                                                > > 1th encounter and rapid adhoc translation which could be somewhat Pidgin stylish:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Für Englische Sprecher MS ist auch meistens leichter zu lernen ???, sagen (wir mal), Deutsch, Niederländisch oder Schwedisch. MS hat eine regelmäßige ??? (can not be understood without English proficiency), allen regelmäßig wortwördlich, allen ein einig ????, regelmäßige Mehrzahl und kennen nicht einen Umlaut. Du kannst finden aus mehr (mehr herausfinden) von der Sprache (seiner) Grammatik, Wortschatz, Texte, ???-Dokumente usw. in der "Files" Aufstellung. Middelspraak ist eine von den Varianten von Folkspraak,(.) Lerne mehr darüber (bei) http://...
                                                                > >
                                                                > > > Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder
                                                                > >
                                                                > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen von I.R.
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > >
                                                                > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Hei Erik,
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Wan du wil lerne enigting meer over een gemeen germanisch spraak dat folge de Interlingua-methode, on have nik allenig de nationael West-Germanisch sprake as brun, doch okso de Skandinavische sprake on minderhed-sprake as Frisisch on Nedersaksisch, du kan lese dis dokument over Middelspraak:
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > http://www.drentsetaol.nl/achtergronden/MIDDELSPRAKE%20CONCISE%20OUTLINES%20OF.d\
                                                                > > > oc
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > een later, an-passed version is in de 'files section' af user FS grup
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/files/MIDDELSPRAKE%20Concise%20Outlines\
                                                                > > > .doc
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > On hir de forwising to de MS side:
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Middelsprake/
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > mid de begin-tekst:
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered up de wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake. De grammatika is simpel on regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne. Man kan forgelike Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered up Latin/Romanisch, in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer Germanisch sprake, mennig af een MS tekst schal wese forstaan direkt, uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter Engelisch, have rund 170 miljon sprekers.
                                                                > > > For Engelisch sprekers MS is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege, Duetisch, Nederlandisch oller Swedisch.
                                                                > > > MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig wirk-worde, aleen een enig kyn on een enig fal, regelmatig meertal on kenne nik een "umlaut".
                                                                > > > Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's grammatika, wordschat, tekste, luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files" afdeling.
                                                                > > > Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak, lerne meer up http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > Mid frenlig groete af Ingmar Roerdinkholder
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > >
                                                                > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > Okay, David,
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > I don't know if that could be useful. I own book "Interlingua, Grammar and Method" which very detailed describes Interlingua prototyping process of (mainly) romanic source languages. For me its somewhat to much linguistic. Anyway, maybe it could be useful for Folksprak, too? Table of content can be read at Amazon's "Click to look inside" (cover). Chapter 1 and 10 Interlinguistic Standardization could be read at: http://sites.google.com/site/interlingualingvo/file-cabinet .
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > regards, Erik
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Interlingua-Grammar-Method-Stanley-Mulaik/dp/1467964816/
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > ________________________________
                                                                > > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                                > > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > > > Gesendet: 1:03 Freitag, 7.Dezember 2012
                                                                > > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >  
                                                                > > > > Erik, it seems that you got the right ideas. "ferderve" means in any kind of way damaged, deranged, corrupted or destroyed even. "Fucked up" would be the perfect informal English translation ;-)
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > Note that Folksprak is not meant to have any strong verbs. so I can't use strong past tenses or past participles such as break-broke-broken, verderben-verdarb-verdorben etc.
                                                                > > > > Past tense is always with formed by adding -de to the infinitive and part participle by adding -d.
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Erik <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > No worries, David,
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of
                                                                > > > > > > "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or
                                                                > > > > > > "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > "Ferderved" triggers me to "verdorben". "Breked" triggers me to"brechen; zerbrochen"
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > "Geshejed" triggers me to "das Geschehen, es ist geschehen, es geschah"
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > I tried to got it without any dictionary. 
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > regards, Erik
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > ________________________________
                                                                > > > > > Von: David <parked@>
                                                                > > > > > An: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > > > > > Gesendet: 23:03 Donnerstag, 6.Dezember 2012
                                                                > > > > > Betreff: [folkspraak] Re: Wirvelwind!
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >  
                                                                > > > > > Sorry Erik, the grammar isn't codified yet -- so the conjugation of "wese" (to be/sein) is a bit undecided at the moment.
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > Should used "wirvelstorm" perhaps. And "ferderved" instead or "breked" might be more obvious to a German speaker.
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > And I could have said "geshejed" also.
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Erik" <ditassp2@> wrote:
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Hey,
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > only some attempt by myself to translate it to DE-DE (German-Germany). I'm not specialist in linguistic. I first tried to let translation keep near original of Folksprak which could let look translation not very native German-Germany. Second translation is Native German(DE-DE). But doesn't matter very much. Comprehension result counts, isn't?
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                                > > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > > Tri personen in Auckland aere doed after en wirvelwind in de forstad
                                                                > > > > > > > Hobsonville. 150 husen aere heftig shaded.
                                                                > > > > > > > Dat war 15km fra min hus.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Simplified German: Drei Personen in Auckland "aere"[1]/wurden tot nach einem Wirbelsturm in der Vorstadt Hobsonville. 150 Häuser "aere"[2]/wurden stark beschädigt. Das war/geschah 15 km von meinem Haus.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Native German: In der Vorstadt Hobsonville in Auckland starben nach einem Wirbelsturm drei Menschen. 150 Häuser wurden stark beschädigt. Das geschah ungefähr 15 kilometer von meinem Haus entfernt.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > [1,2] "aere" I only understand with help of English "are" and context assumption.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > Result: I got it like comprehensible dialect.
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > > regards,
                                                                > > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > >
                                                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > >
                                                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                                                > >
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