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The Swedes have gone mad

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  • chamavian
    http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
    Message 1 of 27 , Feb 13, 2012
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    • chamavian
      Voici an article about a Swedish childrens book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
      Message 2 of 27 , Feb 13, 2012
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        Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.


        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
        >
      • Hermann Philipps
        The discussion about this hen as a new Swedish neutral pronoun in The Local shows how excited people can get about being non-sexist. The Turks never had
        Message 3 of 27 , Feb 13, 2012
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          The discussion about this "hen" as a new Swedish neutral pronoun in
          "The Local" shows how excited people can get about being non-sexist.
          The Turks never had anything else but a neutral third-person singular
          pronoun ("on"), but this does not prevent them having a
          male-dominated, female-discriminating culture. Brave Swedes, they try
          so hard to do better. Alas, changes in language will hardly ever
          change the mental setup. But it is true that having a gender-neutral
          pronoun might make life easier, technically. No more "he or she".


          Am 14.02.2012 06:41, schrieb chamavian:
          > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to
          > promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
          >
          >
          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > eMail ist virenfrei.
          > Von AVG überprüft - www.avg.de <http://www.avg.de>
          > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virendatenbank: 2112/4807 - Ausgabedatum:
          > 13.02.2012
          >
        • Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
          This article is somewhat wrong. There is already neutrum pronoun det . Hen would only be a utrum (common) pronoun. But isn t it simpler to use den
          Message 4 of 27 , Feb 14, 2012
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            This article is somewhat wrong.

            There is already neutrum pronoun "det". "Hen" would only be a utrum
            (common) pronoun. But isn't it simpler to use "den" instead? "Den" is
            already the utrum pronoun.

            On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 3:41 AM, chamavian <roerd096@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to
            > promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
            > >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • swartsaxon
            ... When would such a pronoun be used? As a substitute for he or she (han eller hon), when the subject may be a male or a female? In such cases I think the
            Message 5 of 27 , Feb 14, 2012
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              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
              >
              > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
              >
              >
              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
              > >
              >


              When would such a pronoun be used? As a substitute for "he or she" (han eller hon), when the subject may be a male or a female? In such cases I think the adoption of a gender-neutral pronoun is justified, instead of the awkward phrase with 'or' or 'eller'. Note that in colloquial English one often uses 'they' 'them' 'their' to mean 'he or she', 'his or her', 'him or her', and this usage has even been accepted by some reputable grammarians. How does Dutch express this?

              Andrew
            • chamavian
              Dutch fortunately doesn t have such a genderless pronoun. Hij/zij = he/she hem/haar = him/her zijn/haar = his/her But I m much too happy that there s an
              Message 6 of 27 , Feb 14, 2012
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                Dutch fortunately doesn't have such a genderless pronoun.

                Hij/zij = he/she
                hem/haar = him/her
                zijn/haar = his/her

                But I'm much too happy that there's an opposite sex to long for
                an utral pronoun

                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@...> wrote:When would such a pronoun be used? As a substitute for "he or she" (han eller hon), when the subject may be a male or a female? In such cases I think the adoption of a gender-neutral pronoun is justified, instead of the awkward phrase with 'or' or 'eller'. Note that in colloquial English one often uses 'they' 'them' 'their' to mean 'he or she', 'his or her', 'him or her', and this usage has even been accepted by some reputable grammarians. How does Dutch express this?
                >
                > Andrew

                >
                >
                >
                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
              • parked71
                Unfortunately det would not be suitable for what this author intends. Det means truly neutral. That is, a genderless thing or object. We don t want to
                Message 7 of 27 , Feb 14, 2012
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                  Unfortunately "det" would not be suitable for what this author intends.
                  "Det" means truly neutral. That is, a genderless thing or object. We don't want to objectify the little children either. Nor do we wish to deny them their chosen gender or sexuality.
                  I think that the intention to deliberately not specify. By using "hen", the user is saying that the young-person/perdaughter has a gender and a sexuality, but it's none of your business and please don't pre-judge him/her by his/her gender.
                  But doesn't Swedish already have a "hen" as a pronoun. Or an directional adverb?

                  Whilst we/I are/am on the subject or subjects of a new pronoun or new pronouns: I/we think that it/they is/are terrible that in Swedish one/many must specify the number in the third-person/people pronoun(s).

                  By forcing the speaker to be specific whether it is one or many, it creates a culture of selfishness and individuality. Such thinking leads to an emphasis on the desires of the individual instead of the needs of collective. By specifying the number in the third person, we are conveying information that could lead to prejudiced attitudes in the understanding of the topic being discussed. Surely this is an attitude that is to be discouraged as we move towards our goal of building the Marxist-Leninist workers paradise.


                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dutch fortunately doesn't have such a genderless pronoun.
                  >
                  > Hij/zij = he/she
                  > hem/haar = him/her
                  > zijn/haar = his/her
                  >
                  > But I'm much too happy that there's an opposite sex to long for
                  > an utral pronoun
                  >
                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:When would such a pronoun be used? As a substitute for "he or she" (han eller hon), when the subject may be a male or a female? In such cases I think the adoption of a gender-neutral pronoun is justified, instead of the awkward phrase with 'or' or 'eller'. Note that in colloquial English one often uses 'they' 'them' 'their' to mean 'he or she', 'his or her', 'him or her', and this usage has even been accepted by some reputable grammarians. How does Dutch express this?
                  > >
                  > > Andrew
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Hermann Philipps
                  As an aside: The language Ido, constructed more than 100 years ago, has a plethora of 3rd person singular and plural personal pronouns. The full singular forms
                  Message 8 of 27 , Feb 14, 2012
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                    As an aside: The language Ido, constructed more than 100 years ago,
                    has a plethora of 3rd person singular and plural personal pronouns.

                    The full singular forms for he/she/it are ilu/elu/olu. Usually the
                    shortened forms il/el/ol are used with exactly the same meaning. But
                    there is another short form for all three genders: lu. This is used
                    whenever the natural gender is not known or irrelevant.

                    A similar system applies to the plural forms ili/eli/oli. Usually the
                    short form 'li' is used which does not indicate any gender, but if
                    desired you can use the simple 'ili' to speak of a group of males,
                    'eli' to speak of a group of females, and 'oli' to refer to an
                    assembly of things. So, 100 years before our time all those problems
                    were already solved. Now the world only needed to learn Ido. Which it
                    didn't, alas.

                    Hermann
                  • chamavian
                    I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member Stephan Schneider s sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties also had a hen like
                    Message 9 of 27 , Feb 14, 2012
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                      I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she and it.

                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Unfortunately "det" would not be suitable for what this author intends.
                      > "Det" means truly neutral. That is, a genderless thing or object. We don't want to objectify the little children either. Nor do we wish to deny them their chosen gender or sexuality.
                      > I think that the intention to deliberately not specify. By using "hen", the user is saying that the young-person/perdaughter has a gender and a sexuality, but it's none of your business and please don't pre-judge him/her by his/her gender.
                      > But doesn't Swedish already have a "hen" as a pronoun. Or an directional adverb?
                      >
                      > Whilst we/I are/am on the subject or subjects of a new pronoun or new pronouns: I/we think that it/they is/are terrible that in Swedish one/many must specify the number in the third-person/people pronoun(s).
                      >
                      > By forcing the speaker to be specific whether it is one or many, it creates a culture of selfishness and individuality. Such thinking leads to an emphasis on the desires of the individual instead of the needs of collective. By specifying the number in the third person, we are conveying information that could lead to prejudiced attitudes in the understanding of the topic being discussed. Surely this is an attitude that is to be discouraged as we move towards our goal of building the Marxist-Leninist workers paradise.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dutch fortunately doesn't have such a genderless pronoun.
                      > >
                      > > Hij/zij = he/she
                      > > hem/haar = him/her
                      > > zijn/haar = his/her
                      > >
                      > > But I'm much too happy that there's an opposite sex to long for
                      > > an utral pronoun
                      > >
                      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:When would such a pronoun be used? As a substitute for "he or she" (han eller hon), when the subject may be a male or a female? In such cases I think the adoption of a gender-neutral pronoun is justified, instead of the awkward phrase with 'or' or 'eller'. Note that in colloquial English one often uses 'they' 'them' 'their' to mean 'he or she', 'his or her', 'him or her', and this usage has even been accepted by some reputable grammarians. How does Dutch express this?
                      > > >
                      > > > Andrew
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Stephan Schneider
                      Hi Ingmar, It s just Sprak , plain simple Sprak . :) There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern dialects. ik mi min (I me mine) du di din
                      Message 10 of 27 , Feb 17, 2012
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                        Hi Ingmar,

                        It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                        There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern dialects.

                        ik mi min (I me mine)
                        du di din (you you your)
                        hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                        wi ons onser (we us our)
                        ji ju jor (you you your)
                        dej dem deer (they them their)
                        hen hem hens (he him his)
                        hun hum huns (she her her)
                        it it its (it it its)

                        So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender specific for females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".

                        You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications) here:
                        Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto fajnigita).pdf

                        http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjAmdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Esperanto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf

                        By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch, german and danish words before turning them into Sprak words.

                        I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral pronoun in Sprak.

                        Regards,
                        Stephan


                        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she and it.
                      • chamavian
                        Hei Stephanowitz! OK it s Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek too, with all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc. By the way:
                        Message 11 of 27 , Feb 17, 2012
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                          Hei Stephanowitz!

                          OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek too, with all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.

                          By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal pronoun, and when the male or female ones?





                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Stephan Schneider" <stefichjo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Ingmar,
                          >
                          > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                          > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern dialects.
                          >
                          > ik mi min (I me mine)
                          > du di din (you you your)
                          > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                          > wi ons onser (we us our)
                          > ji ju jor (you you your)
                          > dej dem deer (they them their)
                          > hen hem hens (he him his)
                          > hun hum huns (she her her)
                          > it it its (it it its)
                          >
                          > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender specific for females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                          >
                          > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications) here:
                          > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto fajnigita).pdf
                          >
                          > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjAmdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Esperanto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf
                          >
                          > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch, german and danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                          >
                          > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral pronoun in Sprak.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Stephan
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she and it.
                          >
                        • David Renford Parke
                          Message 12 of 27 , Feb 18, 2012
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                            On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:

                            >  
                            >
                            > Hei Stephanowitz!
                            >
                            > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek too, with
                            > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                            >
                            > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal pronoun, and
                            > when the male or female ones?
                            >
                            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hi Ingmar,
                            > >
                            > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                            > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern dialects.
                            > >
                            > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                            > > du di din (you you your)
                            > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                            > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                            > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                            > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                            > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                            > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                            > > it it its (it it its)
                            > >
                            > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender specific for
                            > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                            > >
                            > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications) here:
                            > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                            > fajnigita).pdf
                            > >
                            > >
                            > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                            > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                            > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                            > >
                            > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing
                            > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch, german and
                            > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                            > >
                            > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral pronoun in
                            > Sprak.
                            > >
                            > > Regards,
                            > > Stephan
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member
                            > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties
                            > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she and it.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Links:
                            > ------
                            > [1]
                            > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                            > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                            > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                            > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                            > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                            > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                            > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                            > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                            > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                            > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                            > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                            > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                          • Stephan Schneider
                            That could depend on the speaker. But in general, I wouldn t expect people to use hen (for male gender), but to use hi for people in general and hun for
                            Message 13 of 27 , Feb 18, 2012
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                              That could depend on the speaker. But in general, I wouldn't expect people to use "hen" (for male gender), but to use "hi" for people in general and "hun" for females, implicitly expressing by this usage that males are the dominant gender, the "normal people" gender. I would only expect feminists to use "hen".

                              Regards,
                              Stephan

                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hei Stephanowitz!
                              >
                              > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek too, with all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                              >
                              > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal pronoun, and when the male or female ones?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Stephan Schneider" <stefichjo@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Hi Ingmar,
                              > >
                              > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                              > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern dialects.
                              > >
                              > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                              > > du di din (you you your)
                              > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                              > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                              > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                              > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                              > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                              > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                              > > it it its (it it its)
                              > >
                              > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender specific for females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                              > >
                              > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications) here:
                              > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto fajnigita).pdf
                              > >
                              > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjAmdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Esperanto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf
                              > >
                              > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch, german and danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                              > >
                              > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral pronoun in Sprak.
                              > >
                              > > Regards,
                              > > Stephan
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she and it.
                            • chamavian
                              Hei David... Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can t find your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                              Message 14 of 27 , Feb 19, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hei David...
                                Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?

                                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Renford Parke <parked@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >  
                                > >
                                > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                > >
                                > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek too, with
                                > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                > >
                                > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal pronoun, and
                                > > when the male or female ones?
                                > >
                                > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                > > >
                                > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern dialects.
                                > > >
                                > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                > > > du di din (you you your)
                                > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                > > > it it its (it it its)
                                > > >
                                > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender specific for
                                > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                > > >
                                > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications) here:
                                > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                > > fajnigita).pdf
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                > > >
                                > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing
                                > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch, german and
                                > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral pronoun in
                                > > Sprak.
                                > > >
                                > > > Regards,
                                > > > Stephan
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member
                                > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its varieties
                                > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she and it.
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Links:
                                > > ------
                                > > [1]
                                > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • David Parke
                                Think I clicked reply by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven t had time to reply to much. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 27 , Feb 20, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                  had time to reply to much.

                                  On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hei David...
                                  > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                  > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                  >
                                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                  > <parked@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Â
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                  > too, with
                                  > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                  > pronoun, and
                                  > > > when the male or female ones?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                  > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                  > dialects.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                  > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                  > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                  > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                  > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                  > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                  > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                  > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                  > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                  > specific for
                                  > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications)
                                  > here:
                                  > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                  > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                  > > >
                                  > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                  > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing
                                  > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                  > german and
                                  > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                  > pronoun in
                                  > > > Sprak.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Regards,
                                  > > > > Stephan
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                  > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member
                                  > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                  > varieties
                                  > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                  > and it.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Links:
                                  > > > ------
                                  > > > [1]
                                  > > >
                                  > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                  > > >
                                  > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                  > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                  > > >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                  > > >
                                  > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                  > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                  > > >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                  > > >
                                  > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                  > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                  > > >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                  > > >
                                  > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                  > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                  > > >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                  > > >
                                  > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                  > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                  > > >
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                  > > >
                                  > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                  > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • chamavian
                                  Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Feb 20, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?


                                    --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                    > had time to reply to much.
                                    >
                                    > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hei David...
                                    > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                    > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                    > > <parked@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > Â
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                    > > too, with
                                    > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                    > > pronoun, and
                                    > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                    > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                    > > dialects.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                    > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                    > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                    > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                    > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                    > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                    > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                    > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                    > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                    > > specific for
                                    > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono indications)
                                    > > here:
                                    > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                    > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                    > > > >
                                    > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                    > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of writing
                                    > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                    > > german and
                                    > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                    > > pronoun in
                                    > > > > Sprak.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Regards,
                                    > > > > > Stephan
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned member
                                    > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                    > > varieties
                                    > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                    > > and it.
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Links:
                                    > > > > ------
                                    > > > > [1]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                    > > > >
                                    > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                    > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                    > > > >
                                    > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                    > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                    > > > >
                                    > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                    > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                    > > > >
                                    > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                    > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                    > > > >
                                    > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                    > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                    > > > >
                                    > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                    > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • David Parke
                                    Ja, en hel god wik-end. Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Feb 21, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                      Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                      Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                      art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                      to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                      have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                      Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                      unbehaglik bedd :-(

                                      On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                      > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                      >
                                      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                      > > had time to reply to much.
                                      > >
                                      > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hei David...
                                      > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                      > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                      > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > > Â
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                      > > > too, with
                                      > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                      > > > pronoun, and
                                      > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                      > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                      > > > dialects.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                      > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                      > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                      > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                      > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                      > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                      > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                      > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                      > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                      > > > specific for
                                      > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                      > indications)
                                      > > > here:
                                      > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                      > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                      > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                      > writing
                                      > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                      > > > german and
                                      > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                      > > > pronoun in
                                      > > > > > Sprak.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Regards,
                                      > > > > > > Stephan
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                      > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                      > member
                                      > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                      > > > varieties
                                      > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                      > > > and it.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Links:
                                      > > > > > ------
                                      > > > > > [1]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                      > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                      > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                      > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                      > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                      > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                      >
                                      > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                      > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                      > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • chamavian
                                      Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Feb 21, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?

                                        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                        > Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                        > Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                        > art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                        > to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                        > have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                        > Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                        > unbehaglik bedd :-(
                                        >
                                        > On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                        > > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                        > > > had time to reply to much.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Hei David...
                                        > > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                        > > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                        > > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Â
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                        > > > > too, with
                                        > > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                        > > > > pronoun, and
                                        > > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                        > > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                        > > > > dialects.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                        > > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                        > > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                        > > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                        > > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                        > > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                        > > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                        > > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                        > > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                        > > > > specific for
                                        > > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                        > > indications)
                                        > > > > here:
                                        > > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                        > > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                        > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                        > > writing
                                        > > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                        > > > > german and
                                        > > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                        > > > > pronoun in
                                        > > > > > > Sprak.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > Regards,
                                        > > > > > > > Stephan
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                        > > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                        > > member
                                        > > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                        > > > > varieties
                                        > > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                        > > > > and it.
                                        > > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > > Links:
                                        > > > > > > ------
                                        > > > > > > [1]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                        > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                        > > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                        > > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                        > > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                        > > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                        > >
                                        > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > > >
                                        > > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                        > > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                        > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • David
                                        Nee, Jib iss en tailandish nam. Si is en tailandish turist.
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Feb 21, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Nee, "Jib" iss en tailandish nam. Si is en tailandish turist.

                                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?
                                          >
                                          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                          > > Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                          > > Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                          > > art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                          > > to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                          > > have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                          > > Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                          > > unbehaglik bedd :-(
                                          > >
                                          > > On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                          > > > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                          > > > > had time to reply to much.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Hei David...
                                          > > > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                          > > > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                          > > > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Â
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                          > > > > > too, with
                                          > > > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                          > > > > > pronoun, and
                                          > > > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                          > > > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                          > > > > > dialects.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                          > > > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                          > > > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                          > > > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                          > > > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                          > > > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                          > > > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                          > > > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                          > > > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                          > > > > > specific for
                                          > > > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                          > > > indications)
                                          > > > > > here:
                                          > > > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                          > > > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                          > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                          > > > writing
                                          > > > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                          > > > > > german and
                                          > > > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                          > > > > > pronoun in
                                          > > > > > > > Sprak.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > Regards,
                                          > > > > > > > > Stephan
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                          > > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                          > > > member
                                          > > > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                          > > > > > varieties
                                          > > > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                          > > > > > and it.
                                          > > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > Links:
                                          > > > > > > > ------
                                          > > > > > > > [1]
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                          > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                          > > > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                          > > > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                          > > > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                          > > > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                          > > > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                          > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                          > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • chamavian
                                          Ah ja, datt iss so, du lyv eksotisch magde, lik ek oek! Wow, en Tailandish fru, dee aere oft schoen. Turist odder nicht, ek hop for ju datt si schall blive inn
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Feb 21, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Ah ja, datt iss so, du lyv eksotisch magde, lik ek oek! Wow, en Tailandish fru, dee aere oft schoen. Turist odder nicht, ek hop for ju datt si schall blive inn Ny-Seeland for en lang tid. Aer du "in love"?

                                            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Nee, "Jib" iss en tailandish nam. Si is en tailandish turist.
                                            >
                                            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                            > > > Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                            > > > Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                            > > > art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                            > > > to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                            > > > have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                            > > > Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                            > > > unbehaglik bedd :-(
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                            > > > > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                            > > > > > had time to reply to much.
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Hei David...
                                            > > > > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                            > > > > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                            > > > > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Â
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                            > > > > > > too, with
                                            > > > > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                            > > > > > > pronoun, and
                                            > > > > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                            > > > > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                            > > > > > > dialects.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                            > > > > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                            > > > > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                            > > > > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                            > > > > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                            > > > > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                            > > > > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                            > > > > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                            > > > > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                            > > > > > > specific for
                                            > > > > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                            > > > > indications)
                                            > > > > > > here:
                                            > > > > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                            > > > > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                            > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                            > > > > writing
                                            > > > > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                            > > > > > > german and
                                            > > > > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                            > > > > > > pronoun in
                                            > > > > > > > > Sprak.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > Regards,
                                            > > > > > > > > > Stephan
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                            > > > > member
                                            > > > > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                            > > > > > > varieties
                                            > > > > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                            > > > > > > and it.
                                            > > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > Links:
                                            > > > > > > > > ------
                                            > > > > > > > > [1]
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                            > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                            > > > > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                            > > > > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                            > > > > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                            > > > > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                            > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            > > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                            > > > > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                            > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                            > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • chamavian
                                            So, what s up
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Mar 2, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              So, what's up

                                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Ah ja, datt iss so, du lyv eksotisch magde, lik ek oek! Wow, en Tailandish fru, dee aere oft schoen. Turist odder nicht, ek hop for ju datt si schall blive inn Ny-Seeland for en lang tid. Aer du "in love"?
                                              >
                                              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Nee, "Jib" iss en tailandish nam. Si is en tailandish turist.
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                              > > > > Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                              > > > > Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                              > > > > art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                              > > > > to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                              > > > > have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                              > > > > Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                              > > > > unbehaglik bedd :-(
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                              > > > > > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                              > > > > > > had time to reply to much.
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > Hei David...
                                              > > > > > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                              > > > > > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                              > > > > > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Â
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                              > > > > > > > too, with
                                              > > > > > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                              > > > > > > > pronoun, and
                                              > > > > > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                              > > > > > > > dialects.
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                              > > > > > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                              > > > > > > > specific for
                                              > > > > > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                              > > > > > indications)
                                              > > > > > > > here:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                              > > > > > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                              > > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                              > > > > > writing
                                              > > > > > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                              > > > > > > > german and
                                              > > > > > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                              > > > > > > > pronoun in
                                              > > > > > > > > > Sprak.
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
                                              > > > > > > > > > > Stephan
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                              > > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                              > > > > > member
                                              > > > > > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                              > > > > > > > varieties
                                              > > > > > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                              > > > > > > > and it.
                                              > > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > > Links:
                                              > > > > > > > > > ------
                                              > > > > > > > > > [1]
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                              > > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                              > > > > > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                              > > > > > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                              > > > > > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                              > > > > > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                              > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                              > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                              > > > > > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                              > > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                              > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                              > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                              > > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                            • chamavian
                                              Talking about mad Swedes: I m currently reading the third part of Jens Lapidus Stockholm Trilogi Livet Deluxe . I guess there must be English translations
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Mar 5, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Talking about mad Swedes: I'm currently reading the third part of Jens Lapidus' Stockholm Trilogi "Livet Deluxe". I guess there must be English translations too.

                                                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > So, what's up
                                                >
                                                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > Ah ja, datt iss so, du lyv eksotisch magde, lik ek oek! Wow, en Tailandish fru, dee aere oft schoen. Turist odder nicht, ek hop for ju datt si schall blive inn Ny-Seeland for en lang tid. Aer du "in love"?
                                                > >
                                                > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Nee, "Jib" iss en tailandish nam. Si is en tailandish turist.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                                > > > > > Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                                > > > > > Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                                > > > > > art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                                > > > > > to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                                > > > > > have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                                > > > > > Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                                > > > > > unbehaglik bedd :-(
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                                > > > > > > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                                > > > > > > > had time to reply to much.
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > Hei David...
                                                > > > > > > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                                > > > > > > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                                > > > > > > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Â
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                                > > > > > > > > too, with
                                                > > > > > > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                                > > > > > > > > pronoun, and
                                                > > > > > > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                                > > > > > > > > dialects.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                                > > > > > > > > specific for
                                                > > > > > > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                                > > > > > > indications)
                                                > > > > > > > > here:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                                > > > > > > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                                > > > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                                > > > > > > writing
                                                > > > > > > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                                > > > > > > > > german and
                                                > > > > > > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                                > > > > > > > > pronoun in
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Sprak.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > Stephan
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                                > > > > > > member
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                                > > > > > > > > varieties
                                                > > > > > > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                                > > > > > > > > and it.
                                                > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > > Links:
                                                > > > > > > > > > > ------
                                                > > > > > > > > > > [1]
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                                > > > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                                > > > > > > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                                > > > > > > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                                > > > > > > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                                > > > > > > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                                > > > > > > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                                > > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                > > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                                > > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • swartsaxon
                                                The only Swedish book I have seen here recently is the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy by ? In Swedish the first book is called Män som hatar kvinnor .
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Mar 5, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  The only Swedish book I have seen here recently is the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo trilogy by ? In Swedish the first book is called "Män som hatar kvinnor". I'm sure you know the popular movies of the same name.

                                                  P.S. I probably should have written this in Folksprak but I was feeling too lazy to look up the words, sorry.

                                                  --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Talking about mad Swedes: I'm currently reading the third part of Jens Lapidus' Stockholm Trilogi "Livet Deluxe". I guess there must be English translations too.
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > So, what's up
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > Ah ja, datt iss so, du lyv eksotisch magde, lik ek oek! Wow, en Tailandish fru, dee aere oft schoen. Turist odder nicht, ek hop for ju datt si schall blive inn Ny-Seeland for en lang tid. Aer du "in love"?
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > Nee, "Jib" iss en tailandish nam. Si is en tailandish turist.
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > Mann, datt iss god to hoere. Din ny schatt het Jib, en apart nam, iss si Nyseelandisch?
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > Ja, en hel god wik-end.
                                                  > > > > > > Ek ha besoeked min nyw lyvde shatt Jib, in de shoen twellingstaden, av
                                                  > > > > > > Napier ond Hastings. Dis staden aere wéreld-beroemed for dér 1930s
                                                  > > > > > > art-deco arkitektur. Dis wik-end war de Art-Deco-fest. Wi have oek gaed
                                                  > > > > > > to en wit-sandig strand ond swimmed under en shoen waterfall. Ond wi
                                                  > > > > > > have éted mannig lekker spis, to forbild tailandish énedcurry.
                                                  > > > > > > Doh wi have slaped in en smuttig gemén juged-herberg med en hellish
                                                  > > > > > > unbehaglik bedd :-(
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > On 21/02/2012 18:37, chamavian wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Ach so! You had only time to touch your keyboard, not to type
                                                  > > > > > > > anything. Had a nice weekend then, mate?
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > Think I clicked "reply" by accident. Been away all weekend, so haven't
                                                  > > > > > > > > had time to reply to much.
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > On 19/02/2012 21:20, chamavian wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Hei David...
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Did you want so say something, or just nothing because I can't find
                                                  > > > > > > > > > your reaction in your reply message, or do I need glasses?
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Renford Parke
                                                  > > > > > > > > > <parked@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > On Sat 18/02/12 6:14 PM , "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Â
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Hei Stephanowitz!
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > OK it's Sprak... I guess I was confused because you had Spraek
                                                  > > > > > > > > > too, with
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > all those diacritics, accents, hacheks, umlauts etc.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > By the way: when would one use the gender neutral personal
                                                  > > > > > > > > > pronoun, and
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > when the male or female ones?
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "Stephan Schneider" wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Ingmar,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > It's just "Sprak", plain simple "Sprak". :)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > There are no more varieties of it, like western or northern
                                                  > > > > > > > > > dialects.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > ik mi min (I me mine)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > du di din (you you your)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > hi him his (he him his) (gender neutral)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > wi ons onser (we us our)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > ji ju jor (you you your)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > dej dem deer (they them their)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > hen hem hens (he him his)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > hun hum huns (she her her)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > it it its (it it its)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > So "hen" is gender specific for males and "hun" is gender
                                                  > > > > > > > > > specific for
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > females. The general "person" pronoun is "hi".
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > You can find this table on the 7th page (with prono
                                                  > > > > > > > indications)
                                                  > > > > > > > > > here:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Files >> Sprak (2012) (Esperanto) >> sprak 2012-0101 (esperanto
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > fajnigita).pdf
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[1]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, "Spraek" is not a language either. It's a way of
                                                  > > > > > > > writing
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > germanic words, which I used when I analysed english, dutch,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > german and
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > danish words before turning them into Sprak words.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm glad you remembered about the idea of a gender neutral
                                                  > > > > > > > > > pronoun in
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Sprak.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > Stephan
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" wrote:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think to remember that our recently for a while returned
                                                  > > > > > > > member
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Stephan Schneider's sprak/sprac/spraec or at least one of its
                                                  > > > > > > > > > varieties
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > also had a hen like genderless personal pronoun, next to he, she
                                                  > > > > > > > > > and it.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > Links:
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > ------
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > [1]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EBc-T7FgYcgwNDqE66V_JQIN-cYONag8zfWhK9psvqkpjA
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > mdvMcULr40ucoUmljWerQsyHR1dUbWDcXdw0WFNSaHhn48ZQ/Sprak%20%282012%29%20%28Es
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > peranto%29/sprak%202012-0101%20%28esperanto%20fajnigita%29.pdf[2]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwcWl0cWxrBF9TAzk3
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOTcEc2VjA2Z
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > 0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5?act=reply[3]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjQwYzU1BF9TAzk3
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwR
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > zdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[4]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/message/14385;_ylc=X3oDMTM1N2VidnF
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEbXNnSWQDMTQzOT
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > cEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5BHRwY0lkAzE0Mzg1[5]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak;_ylc=X3oDMTJkM2tqcDJhBF9TAzk3MzU5N
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > zE0BGdycElkAzIzMDc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGlt
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > > ZQMxMzI5NTQyMDY5[6]
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNTZ2ZnVxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIzM
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > Dc2MARncnBzcElkAzE3MDY2NjUwOTQEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk1NDIwNjk-[7]
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                  > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date:
                                                  > > > > > > > 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                                  > > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                                  > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                                                  > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4212 - Release Date: 02/15/12 19:34:00
                                                  > > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  > > > > > >
                                                  > > > > >
                                                  > > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • joshua.shafer19
                                                  ... I seriously doubt that gender specific pronouns have a serious impact on how we experience the world. If anything the affiliations of gender with inanimate
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Apr 3, 2012
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                                                    --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                                                    > >
                                                    >

                                                    I seriously doubt that gender specific pronouns have a serious impact on how we experience the world. If anything the affiliations of gender with inanimate objects have a negative impact on how important gender is to the native speaker, that is at least what I would expect. How important is gender when a turnip or toothbrush has it?

                                                    "In 2011, a young boy in Jönköping was attacked for wearing pink and nail polish, which are perceived as female attributes. "

                                                    It's funny that they give an example of a young boy being attacked for wearing nail polish which is a physical way of expressing gender in that culture, but assume that the event has some relation to pronoun gender. They make no logical connection. It is technically more accurate to have a gender neutral pronoun, but it doesn't make sense to assume that it has a biased impact on speakers.
                                                  • Will Beazley
                                                    While I don t know the impact of not having them, the gender specific pronouns are actually a manifestation of how we see the world, that is our minds apply
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Apr 3, 2012
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                                                      While I don't know the impact of not having them, the gender specific pronouns
                                                      are actually a manifestation of how we see the world, that is our minds apply
                                                      gender to thing subconsciously.


                                                      Hence, while you might confuse someone's name or which person it might have been
                                                      but you always get the gender correct, it is hard wired.



                                                      --




                                                      ________________________________
                                                      From: joshua.shafer19 <joshua.shafer19@...>
                                                      To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Sent: Tue, April 3, 2012 7:27:33 AM
                                                      Subject: [folkspraak] Re: The Swedes have gone mad




                                                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a
                                                      >new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                                                      > >
                                                      >

                                                      I seriously doubt that gender specific pronouns have a serious impact on how we
                                                      experience the world. If anything the affiliations of gender with inanimate
                                                      objects have a negative impact on how important gender is to the native speaker,
                                                      that is at least what I would expect. How important is gender when a turnip or
                                                      toothbrush has it?

                                                      "In 2011, a young boy in Jönköping was attacked for wearing pink and nail
                                                      polish, which are perceived as female attributes. "

                                                      It's funny that they give an example of a young boy being attacked for wearing
                                                      nail polish which is a physical way of expressing gender in that culture, but
                                                      assume that the event has some relation to pronoun gender. They make no logical
                                                      connection. It is technically more accurate to have a gender neutral pronoun,
                                                      but it doesn't make sense to assume that it has a biased impact on speakers.




                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • chamavian
                                                      In a few languages the pronouns for the seconds person(you) are gender specific. E.g. in Arabic enta = you (male), enti = you (female), singular. In plural
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , Apr 3, 2012
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        In a few languages the pronouns for the seconds person(you) are gender specific. E.g. in Arabic "enta" = you (male), "enti" = you (female), singular. In plural it's "entum" = you (male), "entuma" = you (female).
                                                        In more languages the third person plural is gender specific:
                                                        French ils (m) and elles (f), Arabic hum (m), humma (f), etc.

                                                        But there are also many languages where there's no diffence between he and she, such as Hungarian, Turkish, Chinese etc. Probably most languages in the world don't make that distinction.

                                                        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Will Beazley <willbeaz@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > While I don't know the impact of not having them, the gender specific pronouns
                                                        > are actually a manifestation of how we see the world, that is our minds apply
                                                        > gender to thing subconsciously.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Hence, while you might confuse someone's name or which person it might have been
                                                        > but you always get the gender correct, it is hard wired.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > ________________________________
                                                        > From: joshua.shafer19 <joshua.shafer19@...>
                                                        > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                        > Sent: Tue, April 3, 2012 7:27:33 AM
                                                        > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: The Swedes have gone mad
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a
                                                        > >new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > >
                                                        > > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                                                        > > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        > I seriously doubt that gender specific pronouns have a serious impact on how we
                                                        > experience the world. If anything the affiliations of gender with inanimate
                                                        > objects have a negative impact on how important gender is to the native speaker,
                                                        > that is at least what I would expect. How important is gender when a turnip or
                                                        > toothbrush has it?
                                                        >
                                                        > "In 2011, a young boy in Jönköping was attacked for wearing pink and nail
                                                        > polish, which are perceived as female attributes. "
                                                        >
                                                        > It's funny that they give an example of a young boy being attacked for wearing
                                                        > nail polish which is a physical way of expressing gender in that culture, but
                                                        > assume that the event has some relation to pronoun gender. They make no logical
                                                        > connection. It is technically more accurate to have a gender neutral pronoun,
                                                        > but it doesn't make sense to assume that it has a biased impact on speakers.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                      • David
                                                        If you speak a language that uses gendered 3rd person pronouns, it probably never occurs to you that it doesn t have to be this way. And perhaps the same
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , Apr 3, 2012
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                                                          If you speak a language that uses gendered 3rd person pronouns, it probably never occurs to you that it doesn't have to be this way.
                                                          And perhaps the same applies to languages where the 2nd or 1st person pronoun is gendered.
                                                          I think there may be other languages that have "genres" that are non-sexual, but do have multiple 3rd person pronouns. Perhaps they distinguish and use different pronouns depending on whether the object is animate or inanimate, concrete or abstract, long or short, flexible or hard.
                                                          In most cases, the use of gendered 3rd person pronouns is redundant. That is, I'm already aware that my brother has a penis -- do I really need to specify this every time I refer to him?

                                                          But having multiple pronouns can be a useful part of the linguistic tool box -- giving variety and redundancy. In my opinion, the purpose of pronouns -- especially 3rd person, is as a short-cut to refer back to something that is already mentioned.
                                                          For example I might say "I was attacked by a Bulgarian secret service agent. He was silent and deadly. He wore a tightly tailored silk suit. I never saw him coming. He struck from behind. His weapon of choice was a poisoned umbrella."
                                                          I use "he", "him" and "his" as a short cut, so I don't need to say "Bulgarian secret service agent" over and over again.

                                                          Perhaps I say something like "Yesterday I saw my Janet and John. She was wearing very tight pants". Who is "she"? It's Janet of course, the only female character who I've previously referenced. It's obvious that is Janet because my choice of pronoun says that I am talking about a female. Of course, it wouldn't work if I am talk about Peter and John -- both males.
                                                          If you speak a language with only one 3rd person pronoun, you'd need other options to specify who is who.


                                                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                                                          >
                                                          > In a few languages the pronouns for the seconds person(you) are gender specific. E.g. in Arabic "enta" = you (male), "enti" = you (female), singular. In plural it's "entum" = you (male), "entuma" = you (female).
                                                          > In more languages the third person plural is gender specific:
                                                          > French ils (m) and elles (f), Arabic hum (m), humma (f), etc.
                                                          >
                                                          > But there are also many languages where there's no diffence between he and she, such as Hungarian, Turkish, Chinese etc. Probably most languages in the world don't make that distinction.
                                                          >
                                                          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Will Beazley <willbeaz@> wrote:
                                                          > >
                                                          > > While I don't know the impact of not having them, the gender specific pronouns
                                                          > > are actually a manifestation of how we see the world, that is our minds apply
                                                          > > gender to thing subconsciously.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > Hence, while you might confuse someone's name or which person it might have been
                                                          > > but you always get the gender correct, it is hard wired.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > ________________________________
                                                          > > From: joshua.shafer19 <joshua.shafer19@>
                                                          > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                                                          > > Sent: Tue, April 3, 2012 7:27:33 AM
                                                          > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: The Swedes have gone mad
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > Voici an article about a Swedish childrens' book writer who wants to promote a
                                                          > > >new gender neutral personal pronoun, next to he and she.
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > > > http://www.thelocal.se/38992/20120208/
                                                          > > > >
                                                          > > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > I seriously doubt that gender specific pronouns have a serious impact on how we
                                                          > > experience the world. If anything the affiliations of gender with inanimate
                                                          > > objects have a negative impact on how important gender is to the native speaker,
                                                          > > that is at least what I would expect. How important is gender when a turnip or
                                                          > > toothbrush has it?
                                                          > >
                                                          > > "In 2011, a young boy in Jönköping was attacked for wearing pink and nail
                                                          > > polish, which are perceived as female attributes. "
                                                          > >
                                                          > > It's funny that they give an example of a young boy being attacked for wearing
                                                          > > nail polish which is a physical way of expressing gender in that culture, but
                                                          > > assume that the event has some relation to pronoun gender. They make no logical
                                                          > > connection. It is technically more accurate to have a gender neutral pronoun,
                                                          > > but it doesn't make sense to assume that it has a biased impact on speakers.
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > >
                                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                          > >
                                                          >
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