Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Fw: Somebody I used to know

Expand Messages
  • Andrew Jarrette
    ... From: adam.skoog To: swartsaxon Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:22:08 PM Subject: Re: Somebody I used to
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 31, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      ----- Forwarded Message -----
      From: adam.skoog <adam.skoog@...>
      To: swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
      Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:22:08 PM
      Subject: Re: Somebody I used to know

      I think the approximant sounds awful in Dutch, and I can't say it's that pretty in English either, but I'm at least more used to it there. In Stockholm Swedish, it makes me want to punch someone. For some reason, though, I'm perfectly fine with it in Faroese.

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@...> wrote:
      >
      > In the Yahoo Group "Foreign Languages", the subject at one time was the pronunciation of <r> in the Netherlands.  One of our members from the Netherlands wrote about how she could not stand the so-called "Gooise r" that Sacha de Boer uses on her newscasts, she found that it is an artificial affectation that has been spreading in popularity in the Netherlands, especially among young women.  She hates that pronunciation, which is the pronunciation of <r> finally or before a consonant as an approximant without trilling or tapping, very much like English <r> (however among the Dutch it does not occur before a vowel, unlike in English).  I have noticed that this pronunciation of <r> is quite common in the Netherlands (your singer Theaumes for example having it), and even Queen Beatrix seems to use a form of this <r>.  I don't find it all that ugly (but then again I am an English speaker so I might be biased), but what do you think?  Is the tongue-tip
      trilled <r> your favourite?  Or do you find the Brabants uvular <r> sexier?  Do you think the Gooise <r> is an affectation, not natural?  It seems natural to me.  I also found that, at least as it appears from one website, in Leiden people use this <r> even before vowels:
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmieJ7EkVI
      >
      >
      > Andrew
      >
      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Btw the Brabant accent (like Henny Vrienten's) is chosen to be the most sexy Dutch accent (of the Netherlands) :
      > > http://www.onzetaal.nl/nieuws/brabants-meest-sexy-accent-van-nederland
      > >
      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Good ears, Swaxon! To me it sounds as somethin glike "zusteu-a". This is the singer's (Henny Vrienten's) Southern accent. He also has a "zachte G" = palatal g [G] and ch [C], instead of Standard Dutch [x], and a strongly uvular/guttural r [R].
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Ernst Janz, Doe Maar's other, Austronesian singer, has a more Standard Randstad / slightly Amsterdam accent.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > See/listen whether you can hear the difference:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > To me it sounds like they are singing "Nachtzuste" instead of "Nachtzuster".  Is it common practice to drop final -r in song in Dutch?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Andrew
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > This one is also funny : Nachtzuster (Night Nurse) by Doe Maar
      > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig9eMJv6Ngg
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Btw "Bang" (scared) is also one of Doe Maar's good ones
      > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y_6CJb6gAw
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > If you're interested, I like Bløf's "Oktober" the most out of all the songs you presented here.  That's my kind of music.  I liked other Bløf songs as well, and also Doe Maar's "Is Dit Alles?".  What does "Doe Maar" mean?  How about "Bløf" -- where does this name come from?
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > I was going to write in Folkspraak but I could not find a word that means "to like", so I switched to English.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > I keep tiring y'all with music:
      > > > > > > > > > > > DOE MAAR is propably the most succesful Dutchophone band, for me it's real teen nostalgia from the 80s:
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLzLwSghfNQ
      > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9I9kiaPRI
      > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCkJe1iurjI
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Bløf is a successful band here known for its poetic songtexts in Dutch
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=blof+songtext&oq=blof+songtext&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3926l20850l0l24676l13l13l0l7l7l0l450l2472l3-1.5l6l0
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that song is on high-rotate on the radio over here at the moment. It's not bad for pop music. I didn't know he has a Belgier. He looks quite creepish in that video -- blrrrgh! :-)
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only recently heard of Kimbra -- after she won some Australian music award. I think she was never at all popular until she left for Australia. But that's quite typical for NZ talent -- they never make it big until they leave for Australia. Then the Ozzies claim them for their own. Well guess what Australia -- you're welcome to Russel Crowe!
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a pity there aren't more Dutch language musicians that get international airplay. It would definitely help me learn Dutch if I had some good songs to sing along to. It would be great if there were a Dutch equivalent of Rammstein.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice song.  Why did he record it in English?  Is it because he wants it to be an international hit, in North America too?  So far I haven't heard it over here.  Are a significant number of pop songs in the Netherlands or Belgium recorded in English, or is that rare?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got a major hit here now called Somebody I used to know, by Gotye("Gauthier", French for English Walter for Wouter, his real Dutch name).
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our Flemish brethren are so fucking proud that the guy was born in Bruges (Brugge), "as proud as a dog with seven dicks" (zo trots als een hond met zeven lullen) as the expression goes.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just learned that Kimbra is from NZ, finally good news from the Kiwi front (Kiwi-bra, huh-huh-huh). Must be big Down Under too I guess.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I really love the song
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fyrst en erdbeving, dan Happy Feet, ond nu slekke: Ny-Zeland bliv in de nues hir  ;-)
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • swartsaxon
      I think one s opinion of the r-sounds is coloured by one s own native tongue and the habits one learns from one s native tongue. For this reason I have no
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 31, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I think one's opinion of the r-sounds is coloured by one's own native tongue and the habits one learns from one's native tongue. For this reason I have no problem with the approximant r, and actually like it, since my native tongue has the approximant r. On the other hand, I find the uvular r of many European languages very ugly, it sounds like you're coughing up phlegm and choking on it. But I'm sure if my native tongue had the uvular r, I would quite like it and probably be proud of it. I do like the tongue-tip trilled r of e.g. Spanish, I find it sounds pretty. I would like to hear the Faroese r.

        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Forwarded Message -----
        > From: adam.skoog <adam.skoog@...>
        > To: swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
        > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 12:22:08 PM
        > Subject: Re: Somebody I used to know
        >
        > I think the approximant sounds awful in Dutch, and I can't say it's that pretty in English either, but I'm at least more used to it there. In Stockholm Swedish, it makes me want to punch someone. For some reason, though, I'm perfectly fine with it in Faroese.
        >
        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > >
        > > In the Yahoo Group "Foreign Languages", the subject at one time was the pronunciation of <r> in the Netherlands.  One of our members from the Netherlands wrote about how she could not stand the so-called "Gooise r" that Sacha de Boer uses on her newscasts, she found that it is an artificial affectation that has been spreading in popularity in the Netherlands, especially among young women.  She hates that pronunciation, which is the pronunciation of <r> finally or before a consonant as an approximant without trilling or tapping, very much like English <r> (however among the Dutch it does not occur before a vowel, unlike in English).  I have noticed that this pronunciation of <r> is quite common in the Netherlands (your singer Theaumes for example having it), and even Queen Beatrix seems to use a form of this <r>.  I don't find it all that ugly (but then again I am an English speaker so I might be biased), but what do you think?  Is the tongue-tip
        > trilled <r> your favourite?  Or do you find the Brabants uvular <r> sexier?  Do you think the Gooise <r> is an affectation, not natural?  It seems natural to me.  I also found that, at least as it appears from one website, in Leiden people use this <r> even before vowels:
        > >
        > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmieJ7EkVI
        > >
        > >
        > > Andrew
        > >
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Btw the Brabant accent (like Henny Vrienten's) is chosen to be the most sexy Dutch accent (of the Netherlands) :
        > > > http://www.onzetaal.nl/nieuws/brabants-meest-sexy-accent-van-nederland
        > > >
        > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Good ears, Swaxon! To me it sounds as somethin glike "zusteu-a". This is the singer's (Henny Vrienten's) Southern accent. He also has a "zachte G" = palatal g [G] and ch [C], instead of Standard Dutch [x], and a strongly uvular/guttural r [R].
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Ernst Janz, Doe Maar's other, Austronesian singer, has a more Standard Randstad / slightly Amsterdam accent.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > See/listen whether you can hear the difference:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > To me it sounds like they are singing "Nachtzuste" instead of "Nachtzuster".  Is it common practice to drop final -r in song in Dutch?
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Andrew
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > This one is also funny : Nachtzuster (Night Nurse) by Doe Maar
        > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig9eMJv6Ngg
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Btw "Bang" (scared) is also one of Doe Maar's good ones
        > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y_6CJb6gAw
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > If you're interested, I like Bløf's "Oktober" the most out of all the songs you presented here.  That's my kind of music.  I liked other Bløf songs as well, and also Doe Maar's "Is Dit Alles?".  What does "Doe Maar" mean?  How about "Bløf" -- where does this name come from?
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I was going to write in Folkspraak but I could not find a word that means "to like", so I switched to English.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I keep tiring y'all with music:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > DOE MAAR is propably the most succesful Dutchophone band, for me it's real teen nostalgia from the 80s:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLzLwSghfNQ
        > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9I9kiaPRI
        > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCkJe1iurjI
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bløf is a successful band here known for its poetic songtexts in Dutch
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=blof+songtext&oq=blof+songtext&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3926l20850l0l24676l13l13l0l7l7l0l450l2472l3-1.5l6l0
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, that song is on high-rotate on the radio over here at the moment. It's not bad for pop music. I didn't know he has a Belgier. He looks quite creepish in that video -- blrrrgh! :-)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I only recently heard of Kimbra -- after she won some Australian music award. I think she was never at all popular until she left for Australia. But that's quite typical for NZ talent -- they never make it big until they leave for Australia. Then the Ozzies claim them for their own. Well guess what Australia -- you're welcome to Russel Crowe!
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a pity there aren't more Dutch language musicians that get international airplay. It would definitely help me learn Dutch if I had some good songs to sing along to. It would be great if there were a Dutch equivalent of Rammstein.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice song.  Why did he record it in English?  Is it because he wants it to be an international hit, in North America too?  So far I haven't heard it over here.  Are a significant number of pop songs in the Netherlands or Belgium recorded in English, or is that rare?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We got a major hit here now called Somebody I used to know, by Gotye("Gauthier", French for English Walter for Wouter, his real Dutch name).
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Our Flemish brethren are so fucking proud that the guy was born in Bruges (Brugge), "as proud as a dog with seven dicks" (zo trots als een hond met zeven lullen) as the expression goes.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just learned that Kimbra is from NZ, finally good news from the Kiwi front (Kiwi-bra, huh-huh-huh). Must be big Down Under too I guess.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway I really love the song
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVNT4wvIGY
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fyrst en erdbeving, dan Happy Feet, ond nu slekke: Ny-Zeland bliv in de nues hir  ;-)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.