Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Fw: [folkspraak] Re: New Words

Expand Messages
  • Rob Boender
    (Just some remarks, that actually don t go anywhere :D ) I used the word rule in the previous message, but put it between apostrophes because I rather
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 3, 2010
      (Just some remarks, that actually don't go anywhere :D )

      I used the word "rule" in the previous message, but put it between apostrophes
      because I rather preferred to use the English word for Dutch "richtlijn" and I
      couldn't think of it. Now it pops in my mind that it prolly is "guide line".

      Almost literally the same, but not quite. "Richtlijn" would literally be "aim
      line" and "guide line" would literally be "gidslijn".

      And, with the pros and cons of 'medgefoel' and 'medliden' still in mind, I'm
      wondering how often there are literally 100% translation between the various
      languages, or rather 'near synonyms'... E.g. English "hate" is somewhat broader
      than Dutch 'haat', but also somewhat less intense in the sense that English
      speakers would use it in cases where Dutch speakers would use 'hekel hebben
      aan', more or less meaning 'to dislike'. (Btw this might be changing, because of
      the dominant role of English in pop culture which influences Dutch, especially
      in combination with large immigrant populations from the Dutch Caribe and
      Surinam, which are often inclined to anglify - except for a small segment of
      Surinam peoples who speak a very crystal clear, sometimes almost even a bit
      archaic kind of Dutch.)

      Of course, some things cannot even be translated... E.g. I wouldn't know how to
      convey the subtile difference in English between 'freedom' and 'liberty' to
      Dutch translations. We only have 'vrijheid'.

      Thinking over all of this, I realize there is more to the construction of
      language is more than simply thinking of new words.

       
      ----- Forwarded Message ----
      From: Rob Boender <robertpboender@...>
      To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 8:38:59 AM
      Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Re: New Words


      Andy, you sure have a point, and 'medgefoel' seems broader but also less intense
      than 'medliden'. As both words seem to be composites of roots that are already
      FS words, it can be argued that both words are already valid FS words, near
      synonyms with a slightly different meaning.

      There is no 'rule' for keeping the FS vocabulary limited, is there? That would
      seem dubbleplus ungood to me ;)

       



      ________________________________
      From: swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
      To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:10:55 AM
      Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words

       
      Well, I thought it was obvious that I meant <-gefoel> in <medgefoel> was not
      strong enough, as opposed to <-liden> in <*medliden> (medelijden), or maybe
      <-rewen> in <*medrewen> (= *mederouwen, if that could have existed in Dutch).
      "Together-feeling" or "together-emotion" does not sound as strong or as
      compassionate as "together-suffering", or maybe "together-mourning" (<*medrewen>
      as I suggested below). But if you all think it's appropriate and best, I'll
      definitely go along with it.

      andy

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
      >
      > No, "gefoel" isn't strong enough, that means just emotion, feeling, but
      >"medgefoel" is: "ikk willde ju anbyde min medgefoel gern" = I'd like to express
      >(offer) my condolences/my compassion to you
      >
      >
      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
      >
      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
      >
      > > > I agree with the conclusion that "medgefoel" is quite an obvious word - 
      >which
      >
      > > > seems an important Folkspraak criterium to me.
      > >
      >
      > > I just wonder whether <gefoel> = 'feeling' is a strong enough word to convey
      >the emotion one feels at another's loss of a person they loved. I prefer
      >medelijden's formation, as it is based on suffering, although the actual meaning
      >in Dutch is not quite right for 'condolences' (medelijden = pity, compassion
      >according to my dictionary). My Dutch-English dictionary says that Dutch also
      >has <rouwbeklag> for 'condolences'. Maybe something based on the Folksprak word
      >for 'mourn', such as *middruren (if *druren = German <trauern>; or possibly
      >*midrewen with *rewen = Dutch <rouwen> from Germanic *hrewwan (English <rue>)).
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > FS "Lunt" does sound like "lont" to me, which I would not immediately
      >associate
      >
      > > > with a match... In Dutch, a 'lont' is the string attached to a fire cracker
      >or a
      >
      > > > dynamite stave, that is lit up to explode the thing. So, it comes close but
      >it
      >
      > > > is not the same thing. Of course, my gut feeling should not at all
      >influence a
      >
      > > > decision; I'm just saying what I would think of, as an average native
      >speaker of
      >
      > > > Dutch.
      > >
      > > Yes, I don't think a word based on Dutch <lont> and German <Lunte> is right
      >for 'match'. I think a formation similar to Swedish <t�ndsticka> is better.
      >Note Swedish <sticka> = splinter, peg, little stick.
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > I must admit I don't exaclty know what a "fuse" is, though I guess it's
      >part of
      >
      > > > an engine or electronic apparatus. @ Chamavian: is a "fuse" a "zekering"?
      > >
      > > <Fuse>: a) a wick (piece of string, sometimes immersed in a combustible
      >liquid) or tube filled with combustible material, attached to an explosive,
      >which is lit at one end, then burns quickly down the length of the string or
      >tube until it hits the explosive and sets it off, causing an explosion. Thus
      >partly the same as Dutch <lont>.
      > > b) a safety device placed in an electrical circuit consisting of a repaceable
      >plug or tube containing wire or metal that will melt and break the circuit if
      >the current exeeds a specified amperage. Thus = Dutch <zekering>, <stop>.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > And I don't know the meaning of "wick"... Babelfish translates it intio
      >Dutch as
      >
      > > > "wiek", which is either one of the four arms of a windmill, or part of a
      >bird's
      >
      > > > wing... But in the context of fire I think of the cinematic "The
      >Wickerman"...
      > > >  
      > > >
      > >
      > > <Wick>: a piece of string running through and out of a candle, used to light
      >the candle and on which the flame burns, drawing up the wax for combustion; also
      >a similar piece of tightly woven cloth immersed in the oil of a lantern, used to
      >draw up the oil, and then lit so that a flame burns at the top of the wick and
      >oil continues to be drawn up the wick to feed the flame. Thus = Dutch <pit>,
      ><kousje>, <katoen>. My dictionary also gives <wiek> as the first translation of
      ><wick> but then translates <wiek> as "sail, vane; wing", so clearly dictionaries
      >can't always be trusted.
      > >
      > >
      > > Andy
      > >
      > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > >
      > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
      > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 1:02:19 PM
      > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
      > > >
      > > > Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me,
      > > > "me(d)egevoel" may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use it and one
      >of us
      >
      > > > even didn't know the word existed at all. Maybe it is just a translation of
      >the
      >
      > > > German word, but because Dutch already has "medelijden" and "medeleven", it
      >
      > > > never got into real use.
      > > >
      > > > That means it's quite obscure, isn't it?
      > > > So not every word that is found in the Dutch dictionary is used in real
      > > > language. I bet that goes for the other languages as well.
      > > >
      > > > But I'm not against a FS "medgefoel", because it's a pretty self obvious
      >word,
      >
      > > > more so than "medlid" or "medleven" orso.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > I've found "medegevoel" in several dictionaries.
      > > > > It's a similar construction to DE Mitgefühl and DA/NO medfølelse. I
      > > > > would have thought it makes a valid FS word -- unless it really is
      > > > > obscure in one or more languages.
      > > > > So i'd propose FS medgefoel.
      > > > >
      > > > > For a match stick, I'd proposed "lunt" -- based in NL lont, DE Lunte,
      > > > > DA/NO lunte. Scots English also has "lunt"
      > > > > This word might also mean a fuse or wick.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > On 30/10/2010 07:45, chamavian wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender
      > > > > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >"Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used

      > > > > > by social
      > > > > > > >workers or gurus...
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > :lol: Prolly gurus only. I'm kind of a social worker (psych. nurse)
      >
      > > > > > and I've
      > > > > > > never used that word, nor seen/heard it being used by others. Looks
      > > > > > like a
      > > > > > > neologism to me.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I myself work as a social worker as well, I'm a professional guardian
      > > > > > or "youth protection worker" for minors who have no parents or who
      > > > > > can't stay with them according to the judge... My elder sister is a
      > > > > > psychiatrical nurse just like you. She used to live and work in The
      > > > > > Hague, Leidschendam etc., do I remember correctly that you live there?
      > > > > > but she moved back to the East years ago.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I wouldn't use "meegevoel" myself either, but I think the best way to
      > > > > > pronounce it would be with a Brabantish or Limburgish accent, with a
      > > > > > very long monophthong EE, a "soft G", an unvoiced V and a thin L
      > > > > > ["me::G'@vul] ;-) vs Standard Dutch ["meIx@v'uL]
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I must admit I can easily imagine some of the 'group therapy
      > > > > > pluggers' using it,
      > > > > > > though.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
      > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 5:33:27 PM
      > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Â
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > On 28/10/2010 10:57, swartsaxon wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > A better arrangement of my last posting:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@>
      >wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > av ond to (adv) sounds like "to and fro"?
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > fram tid to tid (adv) = "from time to time"? What about
      > > > > > fan/af
      > > > > > > > > = from?
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > This is one area that I am unsure of how to do in
      > > > > > Folkspraak. We have
      > > > > > > > > > > certain meanings that we might want to distinguish with
      > > > > > different
      > > > > > > > > words.
      > > > > > > > > > > 1. from as in the original location of something.
      > > > > > > > > > > 2. of as in a possessed by or belonging to something or
      >someone.
      > > > > > > > > > > 3. by as in by means of, or caused by.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > German uses "aus" and "her" for 1. Maybe even "von". It uses

      > > > > > "von"
      > > > > > > > > 2 and
      > > > > > > > > > > 3. It also uses "durch" for 3.
      > > > > > > > > > > English uses 1. from, 2. of, 3 by. English "from" is
      > > > > > unrelated to DE
      > > > > > > > > > > von. EN of and off is related to DE ab. off and ab can have
      > > > > > similar
      > > > > > > > > > > usages but of and ab do not.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > BTW,"nu ond dann", "av ond to" and "av/fram tid to tid" are
      >all
      > > > > > > > > phrases
      > > > > > > > > > > that I think mean "sometimes" or "occasionally"
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > So will Folksprak have av, fon, fram, and ut? av = off, fon =
      >of,
      > > > > > > > > fram = from, ut = out of? "By = by means of" perhaps turj (or
      > > > > > mid for
      > > > > > > > > vehicles, like German); = caused by perhaps fram or fon (cf.
      >German
      > > > > > > > > von, Dutch van in this use; Swedish av, I believe).
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > kondolence (n) = condolence(s); perhaps midlid(en) or bilid(en)
      > > > > > > > > better, cf. German Beileid
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I think somethiing on the lines of medgefoel. med + gefoel. M
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > In Dutch, "gecondoleerd" or "condoleances" is the usual formula
      > > > > > expressed when
      > > > > > > someone died meaning "sorry for your loss". Or when a football club
      > > > > > lost a
      > > > > > > match, supporters of the winning club will say that to the losers.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > "Met oprechte deelneming" is the expression used on post cards one
      > > > > > sends to the
      > > > > > > relatives of the deceased.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > "Medeleven" or, more often used "medelijden" means "compassion".
      > > > > > > "Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used
      > > > > > by social
      > > > > > > workers or gurus...
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > For FS I think "kondoleances" to express condolences, and "medlid"
      > > > > > > for "compassion" will do.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > innen (adv) = within, inside
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > folkenmord (n) = genocide
      > > > > > > > > > > > > genocid (n) = genocide. I don't see why we need two
      > > > > > words for
      > > > > > > > > the same thing.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I don't see what's wrong with 2 words for the same thing. For one
      > > > > > thing
      > > > > > > > having synonyms is of great help in improving style literature and
      > > > > > > > enabling rhymes in poetry. Not sure who will want to write poems
      > > > > > about
      > > > > > > > genocide though.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > In Dutch we have both Volkerenmoord and Genocide.
      > > > > > > Genocide is used more often: de Ruandese genocide, de Armeense
      > > > > > genocide, de
      > > > > > > genocide op de Bosnische moslims etc. but Volkerenmoord has a
      > > > > > stronger, more
      > > > > > > emotional connotation, and it's also more old-fashioned and used
      > > > > > sometimes to
      > > > > > > explain what the word Genocide means.
      > > > > > > FS could have both words as well: "genocide" and "folkenmord".
      > > > > > > Btw I think there are quite a lot of poems written about the
      > > > > > genocide on the
      > > > > > > Jews in WWII, and other genocides.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > tofridenstellend (a) = German zufriedenstellend
      > > > > > > > > 'satisfactory'. I don't like using a calque of the German
      because
      > > > > > > > > <tofriden> suggests to me putting someone at peace, pacifying or
      > > > > > > > > assuaging, rather than satisfying. I would suggest using a
      > > > > > derivative
      > > > > > > > > of genog, perhaps *fergnogen (unless that means "suffice") or
      > > > > > > > > *begnogen or *ergnogen or similar.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Well my FS vocabulary already has "tofridenstelle" as a verb.
      > > > > > (appease,
      > > > > > > > please, provide gratification, satisfy, suffice). So it follows
      > > > > > that the
      > > > > > > > present participle would make a word for satisfactory. And such
      > > > > > > > constructions are used in NL tevredenstellend; DE
      > > > > > zufriedenstellend; DA
      > > > > > > > tilfredsstillende; NO tilfredsstillende; SV tillfredsställande
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > ferwajte (v) = Dutch verwachten 'to expect'
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > In my FS I have "wajte" which is one of the few actual
      > > > > > "crosswords" in
      > > > > > > > the Ingmar Roerdinkholder usage. That is, it's made up of a mix of
      > > > > > > > similar-looking words that are mostly unrelated etymologically.
      >It's
      > > > > > > > based on EN wait, NL wachten, DE warten, DA/NO vente, SV vänta.
      >I
      >
      > > > > > don't
      > > > > > > > like crosswords because they ignore genuine etymological
      > > > > > relationships
      > > > > > > > such as DE warten is related to EN ward and guard.
      > > > > > > > But anyway, I've got wajte because I really can't find much else
      > > > > > better
      > > > > > > > as a FS word for "wait".
      > > > > > > > But in the continental Germlangs, it seems to be a common
      > > > > > construction
      > > > > > > > for a ver/for-/er- type of prefix to be added to the word for
      > > > > > "wait" to
      > > > > > > > make a word for "expect" or "anticipate". I would strongly suspect

      > > > > > that
      > > > > > > > these constructions are calques of one and other.
      > > > > > > > So FS ferwajte is fer- + wajte. Based on NL verwachten; DE
      > > > > > erwarten; DA
      > > > > > > > forvente; NO forvente; SV förvänta
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Yeah... those crosswords. Btw is English "wait" the same as Dutch
      > > > > > "wachten"? One
      > > > > > > would expect a more etymological spelling like "weight", but then
      > > > > > again, one can
      > > > > > > never rely on English orthography of course.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > It's kind of the same exception as "majd" instead of "*magd"
      > > > > > > But as far as I'm concerned, FS "wahte", "ferwahte" would be OK as
      > > > > > well in this
      > > > > > > case.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > transvestit (n) - self-explanatory
      > > > > > > > > > > > > transsexuelle (n) - self-explanatory
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > kure (v) = Dutch keuren 'test, sample, taste, inspect,
      > > > > > etc.';
      > > > > > > > > or = German küren 'choose, elect'? Possibly either 'test,
      > > > > > sample, try
      > > > > > > > > out' or 'elect'.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > FS's simple and conservative vowel phonology doesn't allow the
      > > > > > diphthong
      > > > > > > > that this has evolved into in German and English. But this word is

      > > > > > based
      > > > > > > > on EN cower, DE kauern and SV kura. All originally from Middle Low
      > > > > > > > German kûren. The meaning should be something like "crouch" or
      > > > > > "cringe".
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > garantere (v) = to guarantee
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > myler / mylener (n) = miller
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > It's from the word for "mill" and looking at the source languages,

      > > > > > it's
      > > > > > > > not obvious if there is a big majority one way or another if the
      >word
      > > > > > > > should end in -n. The Latin source "molinum" did end in -en.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > cf EN miller; NL molenaar; DE Müller; DA/NO møller; SV
      > > > > > mjölnare; FR meunier
      > > > > > > > cf EN mill; NL molen; DE Mühle; DA/NO mølle; SV mölla; FR
      >moulin
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Another interesting thing. Some etymologists consider that the
      > > > > > Germanic
      > > > > > > > -er ending, the agent suffix, may be a Latin borrowing, from L.
      > > > > > > > -arius.And the Dutch -aar ending and SV -are ending look more this

      > > > > > way.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Dutch does not have -er after other syllables with schwa such as
      > > > > > -en, -el, in
      > > > > > > that case it's -aar: -enaar, -elaar
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Molenaar (miller), gijzelaar (hostage), pleisteraar (plasterer)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Sometimes after -n: winnaar, minnaar, but: beginner
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > kancel (n) = German Kanzel 'pulpit; cockpit; turret' - I
      > > > > > > > > suggest choose one of those meanings, probably the
      > > > > > etymologically most
      > > > > > > > > correct one; are we still using <c> for /ts/?
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > It would perhaps have several meanings and derives from Latin
      > > > > > cancelli.
      > > > > > > > It's also a necessary root for word such as "kanceller"
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > hymne (n) = hymn
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > psalm (n) = psalm
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > lovgesang (n) = German Lobgesang 'hymn, song of praise,
      > > > > > eulogy'
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > geologi (n) = geology
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > instyrting (n) = German Einsturz (< einstürzen)
      >'collapse,
      > > > > > > > > fall-in'?
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > krah (n) = German Krach 'crack, crash' (the sound); note
      > > > > > > > > German Absturz '(airplane) crash' as well as 'fall, plunge';
      > > > > > abstürzen
      > > > > > > > > 'fall, plunge' as well as 'crash' of airplanes.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This is possibly an onomatopoeic word. But there are lots of words

      > > > > > like
      > > > > > > > this for a crash or crack in the source languages.
      > > > > > > > eg EN crash; NL krach; DE Krach; DA krak; NO krakk; FR krach; RU
      > > > > > ???? / krah
      > > > > > > > Actually onomatopoeia is one area where I like "crosswords". In
      >such
      > > > > > > > situations you have lots of similar words of often uncertain
      > > > > > etymology.
      > > > > > > > And they are similar because they are imitating the same sound,
      > > > > > rather
      > > > > > > > than because they evolved from a common source.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > tandpin (n) = toothpeg??
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Nope the i in pin is long. Try tooth pain!
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > kaotish (a) = chaotic; how about maybe
      > > > > > wirrish/werrish/warrish
      > > > > > > > > or ferwirrend or similar
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I have "ferwerre" meaning "unnerve, confuse, unsettle". So
      >ferwerrend
      > > > > > > > might or might not mean precisely the same as kaotish.
      > > > > > > > I also have "unordening" =disorder, mess, chaos. So something like
      > > > > > > > *unordeningsfull or *unordeningslik would have a similar meaning
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > strukturell (a) = structural; how about bulik or gebulik
      >or
      > > > > > > > > similar?
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > neurolog (n) = Dutch neuroloog 'neurologist'; how about
      > > > > > > > > *nervkenner or similar 'nerve-expert' or *nervwitenshapman or
      > > > > > something
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > antaste (v) = German antasten 'touch; attack (probably
      > > > > > e.g. of
      > > > > > > > > diseases etc.)'; Dutch aantasten 'affect, harm; attack'
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > molestere (v) = Dutch molesteren 'molest' (in non-sexual
      > > > > > > > > senses or no?) Are we keeping -eren- as the infinitive ending of
      > > > > > > > > romance roots?
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > hitsig (a) = German hitzig 'hot; heated, fierce
      >(argument,
      > > > > > > > > etc.)'. But shouldn't this be *hittig, after *hitt(e) 'heat'
      like
      > > > > > > > > Dutch hitte? I think Dutch hitsig is merely a direct borrowing
      of
      > > > > > > > > German hitzig.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Dutch "hitsig" mean horny, especially for women ;-)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Yes is unclear of the best way to do this. A schematic approach
      > > > > > would be
      > > > > > > > to make a calque/loan translation. -- take the word for "heat" and

      > > > > > add
      > > > > > > > -ig. The naturalistic approach would be to treat it like FS was
      > > > > > just one
      > > > > > > > of the many languages that have borrowed from German hitzig.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > brennend (a) = burning; ardent, fervent?
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > offering (n) = offering (Dutch has offer in this sense)
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > FS isn't just a relexification of English and it's cognates won't
      > > > > > always
      > > > > > > > carry the exact sense as English words (or German cognates, or
      >Dutch
      > > > > > > > etc) It seems to be quite a common construction, after the form
      > > > > > for the
      > > > > > > > French offrande, to have a word meaning sacrifice, of a similar
      > > > > > for to
      > > > > > > > this. eg
      > > > > > > > En offering; Nl offering, offerande; De Opferung; Da ofring; SV
      > > > > > > > offrande; Fr offrande
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > offerte (n) = Dutch offerte '(monetary)offer, tender,
      > > > > > quotation'
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This would be more like an English offer. -- not a sacrifice, but
      > > > > > a bid
      > > > > > > > or tender or quotation.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > anbod (n) = Dutch aanbod 'offer; supply'
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > illuminar (v) = illuminate? Shouldn't this be *erlyhte
      or
      > > > > > > > > similar, like German erleuchten? Unless 'illuminate' a book with

      > > > > > pictures?
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Sorry, I got the proposed form wrong -- this is the Interlingua
      >word.
      > > > > > > > should be *illuminere.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > civil (a) = German zivil, Dutch civiel, English
      > > > > > civil(ian). I
      > > > > > > > > think this should only = English civilian; for English civil
      >there
      > > > > > > > > should be a word derived from 'citizen' (like German
      > > > > > bürgerlich), and
      > > > > > > > > another word meaning 'polite'
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Andrew
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3221 - Release Date:
      > > > > > 10/26/10
      > > > > > > >18:34:00
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3225 - Release Date:
      >10/28/10
      >
      > > > >18:34:00
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      >








      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • swartsaxon
      ... They re all actually very interesting to me. By the way, I would try to write much of this in Folksprak but I find it difficult to write freely in
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 3, 2010
        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@...> wrote:
        >
        > (Just some remarks, that actually don't go anywhere :D )

        They're all actually very interesting to me. By the way, I would try to write much of this in Folksprak but I find it difficult to write freely in Folksprak because the dictionary is only from Folksprak to English, and not English to Folksprak. It means I already have to have an idea of what the Folksprak word might be before I can find it in the dictionary, and sometimes that's hard, if not impossible.


        >
        > I used the word "rule" in the previous message, but put it between apostrophes
        > because I rather preferred to use the English word for Dutch "richtlijn" and I
        > couldn't think of it. Now it pops in my mind that it prolly is "guide line".

        What is <prolly>? An error for <probably>? My dictionary translates <richtlijn> as 'guideline' but as 'directions' in the plural; but it also gives an example <iets volgens de richtlijnen uitvoeren> "do something in the prescribed way", so from this I would not think of <richtlijn> as 'guideline' (which is merely a suggestion, not a prescription) but rather as closer to a 'directive' (which my dictionary translates as <instructie, bevel>, but I believe a 'directive' in English is a little different in meaning than these Dutch words, not quite an 'instruction' or 'command', but merely directing someone aright).


        >
        > Almost literally the same, but not quite. "Richtlijn" would literally be "aim
        > line" and "guide line" would literally be "gidslijn".
        >
        > And, with the pros and cons of 'medgefoel' and 'medliden' still in mind, I'm
        > wondering how often there are literally 100% translation between the various
        > languages, or rather 'near synonyms'... E.g. English "hate" is somewhat broader
        > than Dutch 'haat', but also somewhat less intense in the sense that English
        > speakers would use it in cases where Dutch speakers would use 'hekel hebben
        > aan', more or less meaning 'to dislike'.

        Yes, I know. I have a theory that this arose from the usage of young girls, for whom something that older people and boys 'moderately dislike' is something that these young girls dislike so intensely, that they came to use the word 'hate' for it because that is normally a much stronger word than 'dislike' (and originally had connotations of persecution, strife, etc.). Then because of this 'hate' has become much weakened in colloquial English and is colloquially used as a synonym of '(strongly) dislike'.


        (Btw this might be changing, because of
        > the dominant role of English in pop culture which influences Dutch, especially
        > in combination with large immigrant populations from the Dutch Caribe and
        > Surinam, which are often inclined to anglify - except for a small segment of
        > Surinam peoples who speak a very crystal clear, sometimes almost even a bit
        > archaic kind of Dutch.)

        Why do some Surinam people speak this kind of Dutch? Just curious.

        >
        > Of course, some things cannot even be translated... E.g. I wouldn't know how to
        > convey the subtile difference in English between 'freedom' and 'liberty' to
        > Dutch translations. We only have 'vrijheid'.

        You know, I'm not entirely sure exactly what the difference between 'freedom' and 'liberty' is except that 'liberty' is often used in political contexts (but by the side of 'freedom'), and is used in the expression 'at liberty' (e.g. "You are at liberty to call her", essentially meaning she has allowed you to call her - 'freedom' is never used in this construction, though there is no logical reason why it must not). Also 'liberty' sounds a little more all-encompassing and broader than 'freedom', which is often a localized thing, such as "Being single gives me the freedom to do what I want" -- where "Being single gives me the liberty to do what I want" would sound far too official or monumental, 'liberty' is probably never used for a personal freedom.

        >
        > Thinking over all of this, I realize there is more to the construction of
        > language is more than simply thinking of new words.
        >

        You have to think of all the possible uses of the word, exactly what it means, difference in meaning and usage from similar words, its formation and etymological meaning, degree of familiarity, degree of formality, etc. etc. All of which adds to the joy of constructing languages.


        Andy


        >  
        > ----- Forwarded Message ----
        > From: Rob Boender <robertpboender@...>
        > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 8:38:59 AM
        > Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        >
        >
        > Andy, you sure have a point, and 'medgefoel' seems broader but also less intense
        > than 'medliden'. As both words seem to be composites of roots that are already
        > FS words, it can be argued that both words are already valid FS words, near
        > synonyms with a slightly different meaning.
        >
        > There is no 'rule' for keeping the FS vocabulary limited, is there? That would
        > seem dubbleplus ungood to me ;)
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
        > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:10:55 AM
        > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        >
        >  
        > Well, I thought it was obvious that I meant <-gefoel> in <medgefoel> was not
        > strong enough, as opposed to <-liden> in <*medliden> (medelijden), or maybe
        > <-rewen> in <*medrewen> (= *mederouwen, if that could have existed in Dutch).
        > "Together-feeling" or "together-emotion" does not sound as strong or as
        > compassionate as "together-suffering", or maybe "together-mourning" (<*medrewen>
        > as I suggested below). But if you all think it's appropriate and best, I'll
        > definitely go along with it.
        >
        > andy
        >
        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > >
        > > No, "gefoel" isn't strong enough, that means just emotion, feeling, but
        > >"medgefoel" is: "ikk willde ju anbyde min medgefoel gern" = I'd like to express
        > >(offer) my condolences/my compassion to you
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > > I agree with the conclusion that "medgefoel" is quite an obvious word - 
        > >which
        > >
        > > > > seems an important Folkspraak criterium to me.
        > > >
        > >
        > > > I just wonder whether <gefoel> = 'feeling' is a strong enough word to convey
        > >the emotion one feels at another's loss of a person they loved. I prefer
        > >medelijden's formation, as it is based on suffering, although the actual meaning
        > >in Dutch is not quite right for 'condolences' (medelijden = pity, compassion
        > >according to my dictionary). My Dutch-English dictionary says that Dutch also
        > >has <rouwbeklag> for 'condolences'. Maybe something based on the Folksprak word
        > >for 'mourn', such as *middruren (if *druren = German <trauern>; or possibly
        > >*midrewen with *rewen = Dutch <rouwen> from Germanic *hrewwan (English <rue>)).
        > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > FS "Lunt" does sound like "lont" to me, which I would not immediately
        > >associate
        > >
        > > > > with a match... In Dutch, a 'lont' is the string attached to a fire cracker
        > >or a
        > >
        > > > > dynamite stave, that is lit up to explode the thing. So, it comes close but
        > >it
        > >
        > > > > is not the same thing. Of course, my gut feeling should not at all
        > >influence a
        > >
        > > > > decision; I'm just saying what I would think of, as an average native
        > >speaker of
        > >
        > > > > Dutch.
        > > >
        > > > Yes, I don't think a word based on Dutch <lont> and German <Lunte> is right
        > >for 'match'. I think a formation similar to Swedish <t�ndsticka> is better.
        > >Note Swedish <sticka> = splinter, peg, little stick.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > I must admit I don't exaclty know what a "fuse" is, though I guess it's
        > >part of
        > >
        > > > > an engine or electronic apparatus. @ Chamavian: is a "fuse" a "zekering"?
        > > >
        > > > <Fuse>: a) a wick (piece of string, sometimes immersed in a combustible
        > >liquid) or tube filled with combustible material, attached to an explosive,
        > >which is lit at one end, then burns quickly down the length of the string or
        > >tube until it hits the explosive and sets it off, causing an explosion. Thus
        > >partly the same as Dutch <lont>.
        > > > b) a safety device placed in an electrical circuit consisting of a repaceable
        > >plug or tube containing wire or metal that will melt and break the circuit if
        > >the current exeeds a specified amperage. Thus = Dutch <zekering>, <stop>.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > And I don't know the meaning of "wick"... Babelfish translates it intio
        > >Dutch as
        > >
        > > > > "wiek", which is either one of the four arms of a windmill, or part of a
        > >bird's
        > >
        > > > > wing... But in the context of fire I think of the cinematic "The
        > >Wickerman"...
        > > > >  
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > <Wick>: a piece of string running through and out of a candle, used to light
        > >the candle and on which the flame burns, drawing up the wax for combustion; also
        > >a similar piece of tightly woven cloth immersed in the oil of a lantern, used to
        > >draw up the oil, and then lit so that a flame burns at the top of the wick and
        > >oil continues to be drawn up the wick to feed the flame. Thus = Dutch <pit>,
        > ><kousje>, <katoen>. My dictionary also gives <wiek> as the first translation of
        > ><wick> but then translates <wiek> as "sail, vane; wing", so clearly dictionaries
        > >can't always be trusted.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Andy
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > ________________________________
        > > > >
        > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
        > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 1:02:19 PM
        > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > >
        > > > > Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me,
        > > > > "me(d)egevoel" may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use it and one
        > >of us
        > >
        > > > > even didn't know the word existed at all. Maybe it is just a translation of
        > >the
        > >
        > > > > German word, but because Dutch already has "medelijden" and "medeleven", it
        > >
        > > > > never got into real use.
        > > > >
        > > > > That means it's quite obscure, isn't it?
        > > > > So not every word that is found in the Dutch dictionary is used in real
        > > > > language. I bet that goes for the other languages as well.
        > > > >
        > > > > But I'm not against a FS "medgefoel", because it's a pretty self obvious
        > >word,
        > >
        > > > > more so than "medlid" or "medleven" orso.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I've found "medegevoel" in several dictionaries.
        > > > > > It's a similar construction to DE Mitgefühl and DA/NO medfølelse. I
        > > > > > would have thought it makes a valid FS word -- unless it really is
        > > > > > obscure in one or more languages.
        > > > > > So i'd propose FS medgefoel.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > For a match stick, I'd proposed "lunt" -- based in NL lont, DE Lunte,
        > > > > > DA/NO lunte. Scots English also has "lunt"
        > > > > > This word might also mean a fuse or wick.
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > On 30/10/2010 07:45, chamavian wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender
        > > > > > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >"Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used
        >
        > > > > > > by social
        > > > > > > > >workers or gurus...
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > :lol: Prolly gurus only. I'm kind of a social worker (psych. nurse)
        > >
        > > > > > > and I've
        > > > > > > > never used that word, nor seen/heard it being used by others. Looks
        > > > > > > like a
        > > > > > > > neologism to me.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I myself work as a social worker as well, I'm a professional guardian
        > > > > > > or "youth protection worker" for minors who have no parents or who
        > > > > > > can't stay with them according to the judge... My elder sister is a
        > > > > > > psychiatrical nurse just like you. She used to live and work in The
        > > > > > > Hague, Leidschendam etc., do I remember correctly that you live there?
        > > > > > > but she moved back to the East years ago.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I wouldn't use "meegevoel" myself either, but I think the best way to
        > > > > > > pronounce it would be with a Brabantish or Limburgish accent, with a
        > > > > > > very long monophthong EE, a "soft G", an unvoiced V and a thin L
        > > > > > > ["me::G'@vul] ;-) vs Standard Dutch ["meIx@v'uL]
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I must admit I can easily imagine some of the 'group therapy
        > > > > > > pluggers' using it,
        > > > > > > > though.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
        > > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 5:33:27 PM
        > > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Â
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > On 28/10/2010 10:57, swartsaxon wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > A better arrangement of my last posting:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@>
        > >wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > av ond to (adv) sounds like "to and fro"?
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > fram tid to tid (adv) = "from time to time"? What about
        > > > > > > fan/af
        > > > > > > > > > = from?
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > This is one area that I am unsure of how to do in
        > > > > > > Folkspraak. We have
        > > > > > > > > > > > certain meanings that we might want to distinguish with
        > > > > > > different
        > > > > > > > > > words.
        > > > > > > > > > > > 1. from as in the original location of something.
        > > > > > > > > > > > 2. of as in a possessed by or belonging to something or
        > >someone.
        > > > > > > > > > > > 3. by as in by means of, or caused by.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > German uses "aus" and "her" for 1. Maybe even "von". It uses
        >
        > > > > > > "von"
        > > > > > > > > > 2 and
        > > > > > > > > > > > 3. It also uses "durch" for 3.
        > > > > > > > > > > > English uses 1. from, 2. of, 3 by. English "from" is
        > > > > > > unrelated to DE
        > > > > > > > > > > > von. EN of and off is related to DE ab. off and ab can have
        > > > > > > similar
        > > > > > > > > > > > usages but of and ab do not.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > BTW,"nu ond dann", "av ond to" and "av/fram tid to tid" are
        > >all
        > > > > > > > > > phrases
        > > > > > > > > > > > that I think mean "sometimes" or "occasionally"
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > So will Folksprak have av, fon, fram, and ut? av = off, fon =
        > >of,
        > > > > > > > > > fram = from, ut = out of? "By = by means of" perhaps turj (or
        > > > > > > mid for
        > > > > > > > > > vehicles, like German); = caused by perhaps fram or fon (cf.
        > >German
        > > > > > > > > > von, Dutch van in this use; Swedish av, I believe).
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > kondolence (n) = condolence(s); perhaps midlid(en) or bilid(en)
        > > > > > > > > > better, cf. German Beileid
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I think somethiing on the lines of medgefoel. med + gefoel. M
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > In Dutch, "gecondoleerd" or "condoleances" is the usual formula
        > > > > > > expressed when
        > > > > > > > someone died meaning "sorry for your loss". Or when a football club
        > > > > > > lost a
        > > > > > > > match, supporters of the winning club will say that to the losers.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > "Met oprechte deelneming" is the expression used on post cards one
        > > > > > > sends to the
        > > > > > > > relatives of the deceased.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > "Medeleven" or, more often used "medelijden" means "compassion".
        > > > > > > > "Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used
        > > > > > > by social
        > > > > > > > workers or gurus...
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > For FS I think "kondoleances" to express condolences, and "medlid"
        > > > > > > > for "compassion" will do.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > innen (adv) = within, inside
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > folkenmord (n) = genocide
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > genocid (n) = genocide. I don't see why we need two
        > > > > > > words for
        > > > > > > > > > the same thing.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I don't see what's wrong with 2 words for the same thing. For one
        > > > > > > thing
        > > > > > > > > having synonyms is of great help in improving style literature and
        > > > > > > > > enabling rhymes in poetry. Not sure who will want to write poems
        > > > > > > about
        > > > > > > > > genocide though.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > In Dutch we have both Volkerenmoord and Genocide.
        > > > > > > > Genocide is used more often: de Ruandese genocide, de Armeense
        > > > > > > genocide, de
        > > > > > > > genocide op de Bosnische moslims etc. but Volkerenmoord has a
        > > > > > > stronger, more
        > > > > > > > emotional connotation, and it's also more old-fashioned and used
        > > > > > > sometimes to
        > > > > > > > explain what the word Genocide means.
        > > > > > > > FS could have both words as well: "genocide" and "folkenmord".
        > > > > > > > Btw I think there are quite a lot of poems written about the
        > > > > > > genocide on the
        > > > > > > > Jews in WWII, and other genocides.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > tofridenstellend (a) = German zufriedenstellend
        > > > > > > > > > 'satisfactory'. I don't like using a calque of the German
        > because
        > > > > > > > > > <tofriden> suggests to me putting someone at peace, pacifying or
        > > > > > > > > > assuaging, rather than satisfying. I would suggest using a
        > > > > > > derivative
        > > > > > > > > > of genog, perhaps *fergnogen (unless that means "suffice") or
        > > > > > > > > > *begnogen or *ergnogen or similar.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Well my FS vocabulary already has "tofridenstelle" as a verb.
        > > > > > > (appease,
        > > > > > > > > please, provide gratification, satisfy, suffice). So it follows
        > > > > > > that the
        > > > > > > > > present participle would make a word for satisfactory. And such
        > > > > > > > > constructions are used in NL tevredenstellend; DE
        > > > > > > zufriedenstellend; DA
        > > > > > > > > tilfredsstillende; NO tilfredsstillende; SV tillfredsstÃÆ'¤llande
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > ferwajte (v) = Dutch verwachten 'to expect'
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > In my FS I have "wajte" which is one of the few actual
        > > > > > > "crosswords" in
        > > > > > > > > the Ingmar Roerdinkholder usage. That is, it's made up of a mix of
        > > > > > > > > similar-looking words that are mostly unrelated etymologically.
        > >It's
        > > > > > > > > based on EN wait, NL wachten, DE warten, DA/NO vente, SV vÃÆ'¤nta.
        > >I
        > >
        > > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > like crosswords because they ignore genuine etymological
        > > > > > > relationships
        > > > > > > > > such as DE warten is related to EN ward and guard.
        > > > > > > > > But anyway, I've got wajte because I really can't find much else
        > > > > > > better
        > > > > > > > > as a FS word for "wait".
        > > > > > > > > But in the continental Germlangs, it seems to be a common
        > > > > > > construction
        > > > > > > > > for a ver/for-/er- type of prefix to be added to the word for
        > > > > > > "wait" to
        > > > > > > > > make a word for "expect" or "anticipate". I would strongly suspect
        >
        > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > these constructions are calques of one and other.
        > > > > > > > > So FS ferwajte is fer- + wajte. Based on NL verwachten; DE
        > > > > > > erwarten; DA
        > > > > > > > > forvente; NO forvente; SV fÃÆ'¶rvÃÆ'¤nta
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Yeah... those crosswords. Btw is English "wait" the same as Dutch
        > > > > > > "wachten"? One
        > > > > > > > would expect a more etymological spelling like "weight", but then
        > > > > > > again, one can
        > > > > > > > never rely on English orthography of course.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > It's kind of the same exception as "majd" instead of "*magd"
        > > > > > > > But as far as I'm concerned, FS "wahte", "ferwahte" would be OK as
        > > > > > > well in this
        > > > > > > > case.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > transvestit (n) - self-explanatory
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > transsexuelle (n) - self-explanatory
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > kure (v) = Dutch keuren 'test, sample, taste, inspect,
        > > > > > > etc.';
        > > > > > > > > > or = German kÃÆ'¼ren 'choose, elect'? Possibly either 'test,
        > > > > > > sample, try
        > > > > > > > > > out' or 'elect'.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > FS's simple and conservative vowel phonology doesn't allow the
        > > > > > > diphthong
        > > > > > > > > that this has evolved into in German and English. But this word is
        >
        > > > > > > based
        > > > > > > > > on EN cower, DE kauern and SV kura. All originally from Middle Low
        > > > > > > > > German kÃÆ'»ren. The meaning should be something like "crouch" or
        > > > > > > "cringe".
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > garantere (v) = to guarantee
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > myler / mylener (n) = miller
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > It's from the word for "mill" and looking at the source languages,
        >
        > > > > > > it's
        > > > > > > > > not obvious if there is a big majority one way or another if the
        > >word
        > > > > > > > > should end in -n. The Latin source "molinum" did end in -en.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > cf EN miller; NL molenaar; DE MÃÆ'¼ller; DA/NO mÃÆ'¸ller; SV
        > > > > > > mjÃÆ'¶lnare; FR meunier
        > > > > > > > > cf EN mill; NL molen; DE MÃÆ'¼hle; DA/NO mÃÆ'¸lle; SV mÃÆ'¶lla; FR
        > >moulin
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing. Some etymologists consider that the
        > > > > > > Germanic
        > > > > > > > > -er ending, the agent suffix, may be a Latin borrowing, from L.
        > > > > > > > > -arius.And the Dutch -aar ending and SV -are ending look more this
        >
        > > > > > > way.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Dutch does not have -er after other syllables with schwa such as
        > > > > > > -en, -el, in
        > > > > > > > that case it's -aar: -enaar, -elaar
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Molenaar (miller), gijzelaar (hostage), pleisteraar (plasterer)
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Sometimes after -n: winnaar, minnaar, but: beginner
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > kancel (n) = German Kanzel 'pulpit; cockpit; turret' - I
        > > > > > > > > > suggest choose one of those meanings, probably the
        > > > > > > etymologically most
        > > > > > > > > > correct one; are we still using <c> for /ts/?
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > It would perhaps have several meanings and derives from Latin
        > > > > > > cancelli.
        > > > > > > > > It's also a necessary root for word such as "kanceller"
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > hymne (n) = hymn
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > psalm (n) = psalm
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovgesang (n) = German Lobgesang 'hymn, song of praise,
        > > > > > > eulogy'
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > geologi (n) = geology
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > instyrting (n) = German Einsturz (< einstÃÆ'¼rzen)
        > >'collapse,
        > > > > > > > > > fall-in'?
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > krah (n) = German Krach 'crack, crash' (the sound); note
        > > > > > > > > > German Absturz '(airplane) crash' as well as 'fall, plunge';
        > > > > > > abstÃÆ'¼rzen
        > > > > > > > > > 'fall, plunge' as well as 'crash' of airplanes.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > This is possibly an onomatopoeic word. But there are lots of words
        >
        > > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > this for a crash or crack in the source languages.
        > > > > > > > > eg EN crash; NL krach; DE Krach; DA krak; NO krakk; FR krach; RU
        > > > > > > ???? / krah
        > > > > > > > > Actually onomatopoeia is one area where I like "crosswords". In
        > >such
        > > > > > > > > situations you have lots of similar words of often uncertain
        > > > > > > etymology.
        > > > > > > > > And they are similar because they are imitating the same sound,
        > > > > > > rather
        > > > > > > > > than because they evolved from a common source.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > tandpin (n) = toothpeg??
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Nope the i in pin is long. Try tooth pain!
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > kaotish (a) = chaotic; how about maybe
        > > > > > > wirrish/werrish/warrish
        > > > > > > > > > or ferwirrend or similar
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I have "ferwerre" meaning "unnerve, confuse, unsettle". So
        > >ferwerrend
        > > > > > > > > might or might not mean precisely the same as kaotish.
        > > > > > > > > I also have "unordening" =disorder, mess, chaos. So something like
        > > > > > > > > *unordeningsfull or *unordeningslik would have a similar meaning
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > strukturell (a) = structural; how about bulik or gebulik
        > >or
        > > > > > > > > > similar?
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > neurolog (n) = Dutch neuroloog 'neurologist'; how about
        > > > > > > > > > *nervkenner or similar 'nerve-expert' or *nervwitenshapman or
        > > > > > > something
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > antaste (v) = German antasten 'touch; attack (probably
        > > > > > > e.g. of
        > > > > > > > > > diseases etc.)'; Dutch aantasten 'affect, harm; attack'
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > molestere (v) = Dutch molesteren 'molest' (in non-sexual
        > > > > > > > > > senses or no?) Are we keeping -eren- as the infinitive ending of
        > > > > > > > > > romance roots?
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > hitsig (a) = German hitzig 'hot; heated, fierce
        > >(argument,
        > > > > > > > > > etc.)'. But shouldn't this be *hittig, after *hitt(e) 'heat'
        > like
        > > > > > > > > > Dutch hitte? I think Dutch hitsig is merely a direct borrowing
        > of
        > > > > > > > > > German hitzig.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Dutch "hitsig" mean horny, especially for women ;-)
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Yes is unclear of the best way to do this. A schematic approach
        > > > > > > would be
        > > > > > > > > to make a calque/loan translation. -- take the word for "heat" and
        >
        > > > > > > add
        > > > > > > > > -ig. The naturalistic approach would be to treat it like FS was
        > > > > > > just one
        > > > > > > > > of the many languages that have borrowed from German hitzig.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > brennend (a) = burning; ardent, fervent?
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > offering (n) = offering (Dutch has offer in this sense)
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > FS isn't just a relexification of English and it's cognates won't
        > > > > > > always
        > > > > > > > > carry the exact sense as English words (or German cognates, or
        > >Dutch
        > > > > > > > > etc) It seems to be quite a common construction, after the form
        > > > > > > for the
        > > > > > > > > French offrande, to have a word meaning sacrifice, of a similar
        > > > > > > for to
        > > > > > > > > this. eg
        > > > > > > > > En offering; Nl offering, offerande; De Opferung; Da ofring; SV
        > > > > > > > > offrande; Fr offrande
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > offerte (n) = Dutch offerte '(monetary)offer, tender,
        > > > > > > quotation'
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > This would be more like an English offer. -- not a sacrifice, but
        > > > > > > a bid
        > > > > > > > > or tender or quotation.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > anbod (n) = Dutch aanbod 'offer; supply'
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > illuminar (v) = illuminate? Shouldn't this be *erlyhte
        > or
        > > > > > > > > > similar, like German erleuchten? Unless 'illuminate' a book with
        >
        > > > > > > pictures?
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Sorry, I got the proposed form wrong -- this is the Interlingua
        > >word.
        > > > > > > > > should be *illuminere.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > civil (a) = German zivil, Dutch civiel, English
        > > > > > > civil(ian). I
        > > > > > > > > > think this should only = English civilian; for English civil
        > >there
        > > > > > > > > > should be a word derived from 'citizen' (like German
        > > > > > > bÃÆ'¼rgerlich), and
        > > > > > > > > > another word meaning 'polite'
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Andrew
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3221 - Release Date:
        > > > > > > 10/26/10
        > > > > > > > >18:34:00
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3225 - Release Date:
        > >10/28/10
        > >
        > > > > >18:34:00
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Rob Boender
        ... I wouldn t even know where to find the dictionary. I did almost entirely understand the Ghost Story (some posts ago) so what has been established is
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 4, 2010
          >It means I already have to have an idea of what the Folksprak word might be
          >before I can find it in the dictionary

          I wouldn't even know where to find "the" dictionary. I did almost entirely
          understand the Ghost Story (some posts ago) so what has been established is
          quite succesful (assuming I'm an average testperson - which I guess I am: I have
          an above-average interest in languages, esp. the germanic langugaes, but I have
          no formal education in htis field, and besided Dutch only speak English.)
          Anyway, I guess I could indeed use FS quite easily, provided, as Andy suggests,
          there would be a En->FS dictionary (or Du/Nl->FS one).

          >What is <prolly>? An error for <probably>?

          I though this was an established colloquial word for "probably". Maybe nor
          suitable within this discussion griup. I picked it up from a friend who
          comes from California. Who, btw, doesn't care much about spelling.

          > I have a theory that this arose from the usage of young girls

          I like your theory, partly because it's a bit politically unocrrect. Not sure
          yet to what degree I find i tlikely though... Have to let it sink in for some
          time...

          > Why do some Surinam people speak this kind of Dutch? Just curious.

          I guess this is largely due to a form of eurocentric supriority enforced in the
          colonial days, which, I think, the creole people of Surinam (creole means a lot
          of slightly different things, but in this context of Surinam it refers to an
          ethnic group: people of mixed, mostly black, partly white/dutch ancestry)*
          probably have internalized this idea. It's the upper class of these people
          whom referred to.

          Btw it's not just the language: these people are also very polite and
          well-mannered, while Dutch society (in Europe I mean) has become more informal,
          to the point where social interactions often borders with being rude. So these
          people deviate in a positive way by reflecting an era where social manners were
          more formal. Ironically, there was a racial / racist hierarchy. So it's not like
          these old days were better in every way.

          *(Surinam knows several ethnic groups: there a a few tribes of so-called
          <bosnegers>, litt. "bush negroes": the offspring of runaway slaves who settled
          in the inlands, to a degree mixed with natives (btw afaik the word
          'bosneger' does not seem to carry any negative or pejorative connotations), a
          few tribes of <indianen>: natives who lived in this region before the Europeans
          came, <hindoestanen> orginating from India, <Javanen> originating from Java,
          Indonesia, and Chinese. And probably some <bakra's>: white/Dutch, but afaik
          these are so few they do not really form an ethnic group. Afaik the Creoles is
          the dominant group, closely followed by the Hindoestani. Although someone
          belongs to one group or anther, there is more intermarriage going on then this
          overview would suggest. Interesting fact: although the most used langues is
          <sranantongo> (litt. "the tongue of Sranan", Sranan being Surinam) this language
          is associated with the creoles, and therefor the Surinam parliament speak
          Dutch.)

          I've read your comments with interest, and don't have anything to add at this
          moment.

          -- Rob



          ________________________________
          From: swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
          To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 11:58:37 PM
          Subject: Fw: [folkspraak] Re: New Words

           


          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@...> wrote:
          >
          > (Just some remarks, that actually don't go anywhere :D )

          They're all actually very interesting to me. By the way, I would try to write
          much of this in Folksprak but I find it difficult to write freely in Folksprak
          because the dictionary is only from Folksprak to English, and not English to
          Folksprak. It means I already have to have an idea of what the Folksprak word
          might be before I can find it in the dictionary, and sometimes that's hard, if
          not impossible.

          >
          > I used the word "rule" in the previous message, but put it between apostrophes
          >
          > because I rather preferred to use the English word for Dutch "richtlijn" and I
          >
          > couldn't think of it. Now it pops in my mind that it prolly is "guide line".

          What is <prolly>? An error for <probably>? My dictionary translates <richtlijn>
          as 'guideline' but as 'directions' in the plural; but it also gives an example
          <iets volgens de richtlijnen uitvoeren> "do something in the prescribed way", so
          from this I would not think of <richtlijn> as 'guideline' (which is merely a
          suggestion, not a prescription) but rather as closer to a 'directive' (which my
          dictionary translates as <instructie, bevel>, but I believe a 'directive' in
          English is a little different in meaning than these Dutch words, not quite an
          'instruction' or 'command', but merely directing someone aright).

          >
          > Almost literally the same, but not quite. "Richtlijn" would literally be "aim
          > line" and "guide line" would literally be "gidslijn".
          >
          > And, with the pros and cons of 'medgefoel' and 'medliden' still in mind, I'm
          > wondering how often there are literally 100% translation between the various
          > languages, or rather 'near synonyms'... E.g. English "hate" is somewhat broader
          >
          > than Dutch 'haat', but also somewhat less intense in the sense that English
          > speakers would use it in cases where Dutch speakers would use 'hekel hebben
          > aan', more or less meaning 'to dislike'.

          Yes, I know. I have a theory that this arose from the usage of young girls, for
          whom something that older people and boys 'moderately dislike' is something that
          these young girls dislike so intensely, that they came to use the word 'hate'
          for it because that is normally a much stronger word than 'dislike' (and
          originally had connotations of persecution, strife, etc.). Then because of this
          'hate' has become much weakened in colloquial English and is colloquially used
          as a synonym of '(strongly) dislike'.

          (Btw this might be changing, because of
          > the dominant role of English in pop culture which influences Dutch, especially

          > in combination with large immigrant populations from the Dutch Caribe and
          > Surinam, which are often inclined to anglify - except for a small segment of
          > Surinam peoples who speak a very crystal clear, sometimes almost even a bit
          > archaic kind of Dutch.)

          Why do some Surinam people speak this kind of Dutch? Just curious.

          >
          > Of course, some things cannot even be translated... E.g. I wouldn't know how
          >to
          >
          > convey the subtile difference in English between 'freedom' and 'liberty' to
          > Dutch translations. We only have 'vrijheid'.

          You know, I'm not entirely sure exactly what the difference between 'freedom'
          and 'liberty' is except that 'liberty' is often used in political contexts (but
          by the side of 'freedom'), and is used in the expression 'at liberty' (e.g. "You
          are at liberty to call her", essentially meaning she has allowed you to call her
          - 'freedom' is never used in this construction, though there is no logical
          reason why it must not). Also 'liberty' sounds a little more all-encompassing
          and broader than 'freedom', which is often a localized thing, such as "Being
          single gives me the freedom to do what I want" -- where "Being single gives me
          the liberty to do what I want" would sound far too official or monumental,
          'liberty' is probably never used for a personal freedom.

          >
          > Thinking over all of this, I realize there is more to the construction of
          > language is more than simply thinking of new words.
          >

          You have to think of all the possible uses of the word, exactly what it means,
          difference in meaning and usage from similar words, its formation and
          etymological meaning, degree of familiarity, degree of formality, etc. etc. All
          of which adds to the joy of constructing languages.

          Andy

          >  
          > ----- Forwarded Message ----
          > From: Rob Boender <robertpboender@...>
          > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 8:38:59 AM
          > Subject: Re: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
          >
          >
          > Andy, you sure have a point, and 'medgefoel' seems broader but also less
          >intense
          >
          > than 'medliden'. As both words seem to be composites of roots that are already

          > FS words, it can be argued that both words are already valid FS words, near
          > synonyms with a slightly different meaning.
          >
          > There is no 'rule' for keeping the FS vocabulary limited, is there? That would

          > seem dubbleplus ungood to me ;)
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
          > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:10:55 AM
          > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
          >
          >  
          > Well, I thought it was obvious that I meant <-gefoel> in <medgefoel> was not
          > strong enough, as opposed to <-liden> in <*medliden> (medelijden), or maybe
          > <-rewen> in <*medrewen> (= *mederouwen, if that could have existed in Dutch).
          > "Together-feeling" or "together-emotion" does not sound as strong or as
          > compassionate as "together-suffering", or maybe "together-mourning"
          >(<*medrewen>
          >
          > as I suggested below). But if you all think it's appropriate and best, I'll
          > definitely go along with it.
          >
          > andy
          >
          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
          > >
          > > No, "gefoel" isn't strong enough, that means just emotion, feeling, but
          > >"medgefoel" is: "ikk willde ju anbyde min medgefoel gern" = I'd like to
          >express
          >
          > >(offer) my condolences/my compassion to you
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
          > >
          > > > > I agree with the conclusion that "medgefoel" is quite an obvious word
          >- 
          >
          > >which
          > >
          > > > > seems an important Folkspraak criterium to me.
          > > >
          > >
          > > > I just wonder whether <gefoel> = 'feeling' is a strong enough word to
          >convey
          >
          > >the emotion one feels at another's loss of a person they loved. I prefer
          > >medelijden's formation, as it is based on suffering, although the actual
          >meaning
          >
          > >in Dutch is not quite right for 'condolences' (medelijden = pity, compassion
          > >according to my dictionary). My Dutch-English dictionary says that Dutch also

          > >has <rouwbeklag> for 'condolences'. Maybe something based on the Folksprak
          >word
          >
          > >for 'mourn', such as *middruren (if *druren = German <trauern>; or possibly
          > >*midrewen with *rewen = Dutch <rouwen> from Germanic *hrewwan (English
          ><rue>)).
          >
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > FS "Lunt" does sound like "lont" to me, which I would not immediately
          > >associate
          > >
          > > > > with a match... In Dutch, a 'lont' is the string attached to a fire
          >cracker
          >
          > >or a
          > >
          > > > > dynamite stave, that is lit up to explode the thing. So, it comes close
          >but
          >
          > >it
          > >
          > > > > is not the same thing. Of course, my gut feeling should not at all
          > >influence a
          > >
          > > > > decision; I'm just saying what I would think of, as an average
          >native
          >
          > >speaker of
          > >
          > > > > Dutch.
          > > >
          > > > Yes, I don't think a word based on Dutch <lont> and German <Lunte> is right
          >
          > >for 'match'. I think a formation similar to Swedish <t�ndsticka> is
          >better.
          >
          > >Note Swedish <sticka> = splinter, peg, little stick.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > I must admit I don't exaclty know what a "fuse" is, though I guess
          >it's
          >
          > >part of
          > >
          > > > > an engine or electronic apparatus. @ Chamavian: is a "fuse" a
          "zekering"?
          > > >
          > > > <Fuse>: a) a wick (piece of string, sometimes immersed in a combustible
          > >liquid) or tube filled with combustible material, attached to an explosive,
          > >which is lit at one end, then burns quickly down the length of the string or
          > >tube until it hits the explosive and sets it off, causing an explosion. Thus
          > >partly the same as Dutch <lont>.
          > > > b) a safety device placed in an electrical circuit consisting of a
          >repaceable
          >
          > >plug or tube containing wire or metal that will melt and break the circuit if

          > >the current exeeds a specified amperage. Thus = Dutch <zekering>, <stop>.
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > And I don't know the meaning of "wick"... Babelfish translates it
          >intio
          >
          > >Dutch as
          > >
          > > > > "wiek", which is either one of the four arms of a windmill, or part of a

          > >bird's
          > >
          > > > > wing... But in the context of fire I think of the cinematic "The
          > >Wickerman"...
          > > > >  
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > <Wick>: a piece of string running through and out of a candle, used to
          >light
          >
          > >the candle and on which the flame burns, drawing up the wax for combustion;
          >also
          >
          > >a similar piece of tightly woven cloth immersed in the oil of a lantern, used
          >to
          >
          > >draw up the oil, and then lit so that a flame burns at the top of the wick and
          >
          > >oil continues to be drawn up the wick to feed the flame. Thus = Dutch <pit>,
          > ><kousje>, <katoen>. My dictionary also gives <wiek> as the first translation
          >of
          >
          > ><wick> but then translates <wiek> as "sail, vane; wing", so clearly
          >dictionaries
          >
          > >can't always be trusted.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Andy
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > > ________________________________
          > > > >
          > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
          > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 1:02:19 PM
          > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
          > > > >
          > > > > Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me,
          > > > > "me(d)egevoel" may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use it and
          >one
          >
          > >of us
          > >
          > > > > even didn't know the word existed at all. Maybe it is just a translation
          >of
          >
          > >the
          > >
          > > > > German word, but because Dutch already has "medelijden" and "medeleven",
          >it
          >
          > >
          > > > > never got into real use.
          > > > >
          > > > > That means it's quite obscure, isn't it?
          > > > > So not every word that is found in the Dutch dictionary is used in real
          > > > > language. I bet that goes for the other languages as well.
          > > > >
          > > > > But I'm not against a FS "medgefoel", because it's a pretty self obvious

          > >word,
          > >
          > > > > more so than "medlid" or "medleven" orso.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I've found "medegevoel" in several dictionaries.
          > > > > > It's a similar construction to DE Mitgefühl and DA/NO medfølelse.
          >I
          >
          > > > > > would have thought it makes a valid FS word -- unless it really is
          > > > > > obscure in one or more languages.
          > > > > > So i'd propose FS medgefoel.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > For a match stick, I'd proposed "lunt" -- based in NL lont, DE Lunte,
          > > > > > DA/NO lunte. Scots English also has "lunt"
          > > > > > This word might also mean a fuse or wick.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > On 30/10/2010 07:45, chamavian wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender
          > > > > > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >"Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression
          >used
          >
          >
          > > > > > > by social
          > > > > > > > >workers or gurus...
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > :lol: Prolly gurus only. I'm kind of a social worker (psych.
          >nurse)
          >
          > >
          > > > > > > and I've
          > > > > > > > never used that word, nor seen/heard it being used by others. Looks
          >
          > > > > > > like a
          > > > > > > > neologism to me.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I myself work as a social worker as well, I'm a professional guardian
          >
          > > > > > > or "youth protection worker" for minors who have no parents or who
          > > > > > > can't stay with them according to the judge... My elder sister is a
          > > > > > > psychiatrical nurse just like you. She used to live and work in The
          > > > > > > Hague, Leidschendam etc., do I remember correctly that you live
          >there?
          > > > > > > but she moved back to the East years ago.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I wouldn't use "meegevoel" myself either, but I think the best way to
          >
          > > > > > > pronounce it would be with a Brabantish or Limburgish accent, with a

          > > > > > > very long monophthong EE, a "soft G", an unvoiced V and a thin L
          > > > > > > ["me::G'@vul] ;-) vs Standard Dutch ["meIx@v'uL]
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > I must admit I can easily imagine some of the 'group therapy
          > > > > > > pluggers' using it,
          > > > > > > > though.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > ________________________________
          > > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
          > > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          ><mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > > > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 5:33:27 PM
          > > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Â
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > On 28/10/2010 10:57, swartsaxon wrote:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > A better arrangement of my last posting:
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > --- > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@>
          > >wrote:
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > > av ond to (adv) sounds like "to and fro"?
          > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > fram tid to tid (adv) = "from time to time"? What about
          >
          > > > > > > fan/af
          > > > > > > > > > = from?
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > This is one area that I am unsure of how to do in
          > > > > > > Folkspraak. We have
          > > > > > > > > > > > certain meanings that we might want to distinguish with
          > > > > > > different
          > > > > > > > > > words.
          > > > > > > > > > > > 1. from as in the original location of something.
          > > > > > > > > > > > 2. of as in a possessed by or belonging to something or
          > >someone.
          > > > > > > > > > > > 3. by as in by means of, or caused by.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > German uses "aus" and "her" for 1. Maybe even "von". It
          >uses
          >
          >
          > > > > > > "von"
          > > > > > > > > > 2 and
          > > > > > > > > > > > 3. It also uses "durch" for 3.
          > > > > > > > > > > > English uses 1. from, 2. of, 3 by. English "from" is
          > > > > > > unrelated to DE
          > > > > > > > > > > > von. EN of and off is related to DE ab. off and ab can have
          >
          > > > > > > similar
          > > > > > > > > > > > usages but of and ab do not.
          > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > BTW,"nu ond dann", "av ond to" and "av/fram tid to tid" are
          >
          > >all
          > > > > > > > > > phrases
          > > > > > > > > > > > that I think mean "sometimes" or "occasionally"
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > So will Folksprak have av, fon, fram, and ut? av = off, fon =
          >
          > >of,
          > > > > > > > > > fram = from, ut = out of? "By = by means of" perhaps turj (or
          > > > > > > mid for
          > > > > > > > > > vehicles, like German); = caused by perhaps fram or fon (cf.
          > >German
          > > > > > > > > > von, Dutch van in this use; Swedish av, I believe).
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > kondolence (n) = condolence(s); perhaps midlid(en) or
          bilid(en)
          > > > > > > > > > better, cf. German Beileid
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I think somethiing on the lines of medgefoel. med + gefoel. M
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > In Dutch, "gecondoleerd" or "condoleances" is the usual formula
          > > > > > > expressed when
          > > > > > > > someone died meaning "sorry for your loss". Or when a football club
          >
          > > > > > > lost a
          > > > > > > > match, supporters of the winning club will say that to the losers.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > "Met oprechte deelneming" is the expression used on post cards one

          > > > > > > sends to the
          > > > > > > > relatives of the deceased.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > "Medeleven" or, more often used "medelijden" means "compassion".
          > > > > > > > "Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used
          >
          > > > > > > by social
          > > > > > > > workers or gurus...
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > For FS I think "kondoleances" to express condolences, and "medlid"
          > > > > > > > for "compassion" will do.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > innen (adv) = within, inside
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > folkenmord (n) = genocide
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > genocid (n) = genocide. I don't see why we need two
          > > > > > > words for
          > > > > > > > > > the same thing.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I don't see what's wrong with 2 words for the same thing. For one
          >
          > > > > > > thing
          > > > > > > > > having synonyms is of great help in improving style literature
          >and
          > > > > > > > > enabling rhymes in poetry. Not sure who will want to write poems

          > > > > > > about
          > > > > > > > > genocide though.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > In Dutch we have both Volkerenmoord and Genocide.
          > > > > > > > Genocide is used more often: de Ruandese genocide, de Armeense
          > > > > > > genocide, de
          > > > > > > > genocide op de Bosnische moslims etc. but Volkerenmoord has a
          > > > > > > stronger, more
          > > > > > > > emotional connotation, and it's also more old-fashioned and used
          > > > > > > sometimes to
          > > > > > > > explain what the word Genocide means.
          > > > > > > > FS could have both words as well: "genocide" and "folkenmord".
          > > > > > > > Btw I think there are quite a lot of poems written about the
          > > > > > > genocide on the
          > > > > > > > Jews in WWII, and other genocides.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > tofridenstellend (a) = German zufriedenstellend
          > > > > > > > > > 'satisfactory'. I don't like using a calque of the German
          > because
          > > > > > > > > > <tofriden> suggests to me putting someone at peace, pacifying
          >or
          > > > > > > > > > assuaging, rather than satisfying. I would suggest using a
          > > > > > > derivative
          > > > > > > > > > of genog, perhaps *fergnogen (unless that means "suffice") or
          > > > > > > > > > *begnogen or *ergnogen or similar.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Well my FS vocabulary already has "tofridenstelle" as a verb.
          > > > > > > (appease,
          > > > > > > > > please, provide gratification, satisfy, suffice). So it follows
          > > > > > > that the
          > > > > > > > > present participle would make a word for satisfactory. And such
          > > > > > > > > constructions are used in NL tevredenstellend; DE
          > > > > > > zufriedenstellend; DA
          > > > > > > > > tilfredsstillende; NO tilfredsstillende; SV
          >tillfredsstÃÆ'¤llande
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > ferwajte (v) = Dutch verwachten 'to expect'
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > In my FS I have "wajte" which is one of the few actual
          > > > > > > "crosswords" in
          > > > > > > > > the Ingmar Roerdinkholder usage. That is, it's made up of a mix
          >of
          > > > > > > > > similar-looking words that are mostly unrelated etymologically.
          > >It's
          > > > > > > > > based on EN wait, NL wachten, DE warten, DA/NO vente, SV
          >vÃÆ'¤nta.
          >
          > >I
          > >
          > > > > > > don't
          > > > > > > > > like crosswords because they ignore genuine etymological
          > > > > > > relationships
          > > > > > > > > such as DE warten is related to EN ward and guard.
          > > > > > > > > But anyway, I've got wajte because I really can't find much else

          > > > > > > better
          > > > > > > > > as a FS word for "wait".
          > > > > > > > > But in the continental Germlangs, it seems to be a common
          > > > > > > construction
          > > > > > > > > for a ver/for-/er- type of prefix to be added to the word for
          > > > > > > "wait" to
          > > > > > > > > make a word for "expect" or "anticipate". I would strongly
          >suspect
          >
          >
          > > > > > > that
          > > > > > > > > these constructions are calques of one and other.
          > > > > > > > > So FS ferwajte is fer- + wajte. Based on NL verwachten; DE
          > > > > > > erwarten; DA
          > > > > > > > > forvente; NO forvente; SV fÃÆ'¶rvÃÆ'¤nta
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Yeah... those crosswords. Btw is English "wait" the same as Dutch
          > > > > > > "wachten"? One
          > > > > > > > would expect a more etymological spelling like "weight", but then
          > > > > > > again, one can
          > > > > > > > never rely on English orthography of course.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > It's kind of the same exception as "majd" instead of "*magd"
          > > > > > > > But as far as I'm concerned, FS "wahte", "ferwahte" would be OK as

          > > > > > > well in this
          > > > > > > > case.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > transvestit (n) - self-explanatory
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > transsexuelle (n) - self-explanatory
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > kure (v) = Dutch keuren 'test, sample, taste, inspect,

          > > > > > > etc.';
          > > > > > > > > > or = German kÃÆ'¼ren 'choose, elect'? Possibly either
          >'test,
          >
          > > > > > > sample, try
          > > > > > > > > > out' or 'elect'.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > FS's simple and conservative vowel phonology doesn't allow the
          > > > > > > diphthong
          > > > > > > > > that this has evolved into in German and English. But this word
          >is
          >
          >
          > > > > > > based
          > > > > > > > > on EN cower, DE kauern and SV kura. All originally from Middle
          >Low
          > > > > > > > > German kÃÆ'»ren. The meaning should be something like
          >"crouch" or
          >
          > > > > > > "cringe".
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > garantere (v) = to guarantee
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > myler / mylener (n) = miller
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > It's from the word for "mill" and looking at the source
          >languages,
          >
          >
          > > > > > > it's
          > > > > > > > > not obvious if there is a big majority one way or another if the

          > >word
          > > > > > > > > should end in -n. The Latin source "molinum" did end in -en.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > cf EN miller; NL molenaar; DE MÃÆ'¼ller; DA/NO mÃÆ'¸ller;
          >SV
          >
          > > > > > > mjÃÆ'¶lnare; FR meunier
          > > > > > > > > cf EN mill; NL molen; DE MÃÆ'¼hle; DA/NO mÃÆ'¸lle; SV
          >mÃÆ'¶lla; FR
          >
          > >moulin
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing. Some etymologists consider that the
          > > > > > > Germanic
          > > > > > > > > -er ending, the agent suffix, may be a Latin borrowing, from L.
          > > > > > > > > -arius.And the Dutch -aar ending and SV -are ending look more
          >this
          >
          >
          > > > > > > way.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Dutch does not have -er after other syllables with schwa such as
          > > > > > > -en, -el, in
          > > > > > > > that case it's -aar: -enaar, -elaar
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Molenaar (miller), gijzelaar (hostage), pleisteraar (plasterer)
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Sometimes after -n: winnaar, minnaar, but: beginner
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > kancel (n) = German Kanzel 'pulpit; cockpit; turret' -
          >I
          > > > > > > > > > suggest choose one of those meanings, probably the
          > > > > > > etymologically most
          > > > > > > > > > correct one; are we still using <c> for /ts/?
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > It would perhaps have several meanings and derives from Latin
          > > > > > > cancelli.
          > > > > > > > > It's also a necessary root for word such as "kanceller"
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > hymne (n) = hymn
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > psalm (n) = psalm
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovgesang (n) = German Lobgesang 'hymn, song of praise,
          >
          > > > > > > eulogy'
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > geologi (n) = geology
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > instyrting (n) = German Einsturz (< einstÃÆ'¼rzen)

          > >'collapse,
          > > > > > > > > > fall-in'?
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > krah (n) = German Krach 'crack, crash' (the sound);
          >note
          > > > > > > > > > German Absturz '(airplane) crash' as well as 'fall, plunge';
          > > > > > > abstÃÆ'¼rzen
          > > > > > > > > > 'fall, plunge' as well as 'crash' of airplanes.
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > This is possibly an onomatopoeic word. But there are lots of
          >words
          >
          >
          > > > > > > like
          > > > > > > > > this for a crash or crack in the source languages.
          > > > > > > > > eg EN crash; NL krach; DE Krach; DA krak; NO krakk; FR krach; RU

          > > > > > > ???? / krah
          > > > > > > > > Actually onomatopoeia is one area where I like "crosswords". In
          > >such
          > > > > > > > > situations you have lots of similar words of often uncertain
          > > > > > > etymology.
          > > > > > > > > And they are similar because they are imitating the same sound,
          > > > > > > rather
          > > > > > > > > than because they evolved from a common source.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > tandpin (n) = toothpeg??
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Nope the i in pin is long. Try tooth pain!
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > kaotish (a) = chaotic; how about maybe
          > > > > > > wirrish/werrish/warrish
          > > > > > > > > > or ferwirrend or similar
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > I have "ferwerre" meaning "unnerve, confuse, unsettle". So
          > >ferwerrend
          > > > > > > > > might or might not mean precisely the same as kaotish.
          > > > > > > > > I also have "unordening" =disorder, mess, chaos. So something
          >like
          > > > > > > > > *unordeningsfull or *unordeningslik would have a similar meaning
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > strukturell (a) = structural; how about bulik or
          >gebulik
          >
          > >or
          > > > > > > > > > similar?
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > neurolog (n) = Dutch neuroloog 'neurologist'; how
          about
          > > > > > > > > > *nervkenner or similar 'nerve-expert' or *nervwitenshapman or
          > > > > > > something
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > antaste (v) = German antasten 'touch; attack (probably

          > > > > > > e.g. of
          > > > > > > > > > diseases etc.)'; Dutch aantasten 'affect, harm; attack'
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > molestere (v) = Dutch molesteren 'molest' (in
          >non-sexual
          > > > > > > > > > senses or no?) Are we keeping -eren- as the infinitive ending
          >of
          > > > > > > > > > romance roots?
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > hitsig (a) = German hitzig 'hot; heated, fierce
          > >(argument,
          > > > > > > > > > etc.)'. But shouldn't this be *hittig, after *hitt(e) 'heat'
          > like
          > > > > > > > > > Dutch hitte? I think Dutch hitsig is merely a direct borrowing

          > of
          > > > > > > > > > German hitzig.
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > Dutch "hitsig" mean horny, especially for women ;-)
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Yes is unclear of the best way to do this. A schematic approach
          > > > > > > would be
          > > > > > > > > to make a calque/loan translation. -- take the word for "heat"
          >and
          >
          >
          > > > > > > add
          > > > > > > > > -ig. The naturalistic approach would be to treat it like FS was
          > > > > > > just one
          > > > > > > > > of the many languages that have borrowed from German hitzig.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > brennend (a) = burning; ardent, fervent?
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > offering (n) = offering (Dutch has offer in this
          sense)
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > FS isn't just a relexification of English and it's cognates won't
          >
          > > > > > > always
          > > > > > > > > carry the exact sense as English words (or German cognates, or
          > >Dutch
          > > > > > > > > etc) It seems to be quite a common construction, after the form
          > > > > > > for the
          > > > > > > > > French offrande, to have a word meaning sacrifice, of a similar
          > > > > > > for to
          > > > > > > > > this. eg
          > > > > > > > > En offering; Nl offering, offerande; De Opferung; Da ofring; SV
          > > > > > > > > offrande; Fr offrande
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > offerte (n) = Dutch offerte '(monetary)offer, tender,
          > > > > > > quotation'
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > This would be more like an English offer. -- not a sacrifice, but
          >
          > > > > > > a bid
          > > > > > > > > or tender or quotation.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > anbod (n) = Dutch aanbod 'offer; supply'
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > illuminar (v) = illuminate? Shouldn't this be *erlyhte

          > or
          > > > > > > > > > similar, like German erleuchten? Unless 'illuminate' a book
          >with
          >
          >
          > > > > > > pictures?
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > Sorry, I got the proposed form wrong -- this is the Interlingua
          > >word.
          > > > > > > > > should be *illuminere.
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > > civil (a) = German zivil, Dutch civiel, English
          > > > > > > civil(ian). I
          > > > > > > > > > think this should only = English civilian; for English civil
          > >there
          > > > > > > > > > should be a word derived from 'citizen' (like German
          > > > > > > bÃÆ'¼rgerlich), and
          > > > > > > > > > another word meaning 'polite'
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > Andrew
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3221 - Release Date:
          >
          > > > > > > 10/26/10
          > > > > > > > >18:34:00
          > > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3225 - Release Date:
          > >10/28/10
          > >
          > > > > >18:34:00
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rob Boender
          I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my previous posts. Shouldn t be happening on a discussion list like this one.   The
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 4, 2010
            I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my
            previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like this one.
             
            The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being typing.
             
            -- Rob




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • chamavian
            I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch and German members do
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 8, 2010
              I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch and German members do pretty alright here.
              But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak

              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@...> wrote:
              >
              > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my
              > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like this one.
              >  
              > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being typing.
              >  
              > -- Rob
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • swartsaxon
              ... Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have, is en
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 9, 2010
                --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                >
                > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch and German members do pretty alright here.
                > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak


                Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have, is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis shrive. Ikk have tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid noedig.

                Andy


                >
                > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my
                > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like this one.
                > >  
                > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being typing.
                > >  
                > > -- Rob
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • David Parke
                Andrew ond Folkspraklik frynden, Fyrst ontshyldings for min aktual avwesendhed. To mannig stressfull affaeres inn min real liv. Jobproblemen, fruproblemen,
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 10, 2010
                  Andrew ond Folkspraklik frynden,
                  Fyrst ontshyldings for min aktual avwesendhed. To mannig stressfull
                  affaeres inn min "real" liv. Jobproblemen, fruproblemen, myntproblemen,
                  gesundhedproblemen.

                  Du kann benytte de Excel wordbok, som hete "uberlist5930.xls". Um finde
                  en english word, soeke in de "English Translations" kolonne.

                  Per exempel, um finde de english word "use", du shuld soeke inn dis
                  spreadsheet. Fyrst kyse/bestemme de "English Translations" kolonne".
                  Dann type ctrl-F um doe en soek. Du shuld type " use," als de soek-text.
                  Infall du type bar "use" -- datt finde to mannig worden!
                  Dann clicke upp "find all". Per exemple, dis soek shall finde:

                  ANWENDE v. = avail oneself of, engage, make use of, administer, use,
                  enforce, apply, employ, implement, take, practise, adopt, utilize/utilise
                  ANWENDING n. = application, employment, exertion, usage, use,
                  practice, utilization
                  BENYTTE v. = avail oneself of, engage, make use of, administer, use,
                  enforce, apply, employ, implement, take, practise, adopt, utilize/utilise
                  BENYTTING n. = use, utilization, usage
                  FERBRUKE v. = consume, spend, use, use up
                  GEBRUK n. = application, custom, habit, practice, usage, use, way
                  GEBRUKE v. = utilize, employ, use, take, apply, make use of
                  HANDBOK n. = handbook, manual, guide, instructions for use,
                  guidebook, textbook, reference book on a particular subject, vade-mecum
                  NYTT n. = advantage, avail, benefit, profit, use, usefulness
                  TABU a. = taboo, banned, forbidden to say, forbidden to use,
                  prohibited

                  Du kann benytte en gelikardig metode med de HTML-fil, som hete
                  "Folksprak to english.html". Opene dis fil. Dann type ctrl-F um to soeke
                  de fil. Soeke torj de fil antill du finde de word datt du wille.

                  Innfall du will make selv en English-Folksprak wordbok, du mag kunne
                  umbue de English-Frenkisch wordbok.

                  Per exemple, de EN-FK wordbok ha:
                  BAG n. = sack, tasche

                  Datt umbue sikk to EN-FS:
                  BAG n. = sakk, tashe

                  Ek will geve di de EN-FK filen innfall du will umbue ett. Mest av de
                  differences twishen Folksprak ond Frenkisch aere gansh regelmatig. (ck =
                  kk, qu = kw, x = ks , ch = h etc)

                  --David

                  On 10/11/2010 09:52, swartsaxon wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of
                  > English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch
                  > and German members do pretty alright here.
                  > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                  >
                  > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde
                  > beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have,
                  > is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis shrive. Ikk have
                  > tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid noedig.
                  >
                  > Andy
                  >
                  > >
                  > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender <robertpboender@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling &
                  > grammar) in my
                  > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like
                  > this one.
                  > > >
                  > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being
                  > typing.
                  > > >
                  > > > -- Rob
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3245 - Release Date: 11/08/10 19:34:00
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • chamavian
                  Mmm, ikk ha all des problemen oek, uter de gesundhedproblemen ;-) Doch serioes: datt iss nicht god to hoere datt du ha so maenig stress, ikk wynshd datt wi
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 10, 2010
                    Mmm, ikk ha all des problemen oek, uter de gesundhedproblemen ;-)
                    Doch serioes: datt iss nicht god to hoere datt du ha so maenig stress, ikk wynshd datt wi kann do enig ting to helpe di (uter de myntproblemen, helas, for datt ikk ha nicht de moeglikhed).

                    --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Andrew ond Folkspraklik frynden,
                    > Fyrst ontshyldings for min aktual avwesendhed. To mannig stressfull
                    > affaeres inn min "real" liv. Jobproblemen, fruproblemen, myntproblemen,
                    > gesundhedproblemen.
                    >
                    > Du kann benytte de Excel wordbok, som hete "uberlist5930.xls". Um finde
                    > en english word, soeke in de "English Translations" kolonne.
                    >
                    > Per exempel, um finde de english word "use", du shuld soeke inn dis
                    > spreadsheet. Fyrst kyse/bestemme de "English Translations" kolonne".
                    > Dann type ctrl-F um doe en soek. Du shuld type " use," als de soek-text.
                    > Infall du type bar "use" -- datt finde to mannig worden!
                    > Dann clicke upp "find all". Per exemple, dis soek shall finde:
                    >
                    > ANWENDE v. = avail oneself of, engage, make use of, administer, use,
                    > enforce, apply, employ, implement, take, practise, adopt, utilize/utilise
                    > ANWENDING n. = application, employment, exertion, usage, use,
                    > practice, utilization
                    > BENYTTE v. = avail oneself of, engage, make use of, administer, use,
                    > enforce, apply, employ, implement, take, practise, adopt, utilize/utilise
                    > BENYTTING n. = use, utilization, usage
                    > FERBRUKE v. = consume, spend, use, use up
                    > GEBRUK n. = application, custom, habit, practice, usage, use, way
                    > GEBRUKE v. = utilize, employ, use, take, apply, make use of
                    > HANDBOK n. = handbook, manual, guide, instructions for use,
                    > guidebook, textbook, reference book on a particular subject, vade-mecum
                    > NYTT n. = advantage, avail, benefit, profit, use, usefulness
                    > TABU a. = taboo, banned, forbidden to say, forbidden to use,
                    > prohibited
                    >
                    > Du kann benytte en gelikardig metode med de HTML-fil, som hete
                    > "Folksprak to english.html". Opene dis fil. Dann type ctrl-F um to soeke
                    > de fil. Soeke torj de fil antill du finde de word datt du wille.
                    >
                    > Innfall du will make selv en English-Folksprak wordbok, du mag kunne
                    > umbue de English-Frenkisch wordbok.
                    >
                    > Per exemple, de EN-FK wordbok ha:
                    > BAG n. = sack, tasche
                    >
                    > Datt umbue sikk to EN-FS:
                    > BAG n. = sakk, tashe
                    >
                    > Ek will geve di de EN-FK filen innfall du will umbue ett. Mest av de
                    > differences twishen Folksprak ond Frenkisch aere gansh regelmatig. (ck =
                    > kk, qu = kw, x = ks , ch = h etc)
                    >
                    > --David
                    >
                    > On 10/11/2010 09:52, swartsaxon wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of
                    > > English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch
                    > > and German members do pretty alright here.
                    > > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                    > >
                    > > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde
                    > > beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have,
                    > > is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis shrive. Ikk have
                    > > tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid noedig.
                    > >
                    > > Andy
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                    > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender <robertpboender@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling &
                    > > grammar) in my
                    > > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like
                    > > this one.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being
                    > > typing.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > -- Rob
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                    > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3245 - Release Date: 11/08/10 19:34:00
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • chamavian
                    Cool Andy that you re writing in FS! A few remarks (please don t take it as criticism) It is mi not mikk and the word order is: doch watt wi have noedig
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 11, 2010
                      Cool Andy that you're writing in FS!
                      A few remarks (please don't take it as criticism)
                      It is "mi" not "mikk"
                      and the word order is:
                      doch watt wi have noedig
                      magshej ikk kann don ett
                      En av uns mot shrive des
                      etc

                      So don't take this as criticism and don't let you (or anyone) stop
                      this from trying!

                      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have, is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis shrive. Ikk have tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid noedig.
                      >
                      > Andy
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch and German members do pretty alright here.
                      > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                      >

                      >
                      > >
                      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my
                      > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like this one.
                      > > >  
                      > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being typing.
                      > > >  
                      > > > -- Rob
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • swartsaxon
                      ... Ikk nem ett niht als kritik, doh als help, tank di. Wi werklik have noedig en English-Folksprak wordbok, doh ett is en groet arbed! Ikk shall med David
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 12, 2010
                        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Cool Andy that you're writing in FS!
                        > A few remarks (please don't take it as criticism)
                        > It is "mi" not "mikk"
                        > and the word order is:
                        > doch watt wi have noedig
                        > magshej ikk kann don ett
                        > En av uns mot shrive des
                        > etc
                        >
                        > So don't take this as criticism and don't let you (or anyone) stop
                        > this from trying!

                        Ikk nem ett niht als kritik, doh als help, tank di. Wi werklik have noedig en English-Folksprak wordbok, doh ett is en groet arbed! Ikk shall med David spreke. Ikk is niht seker, datt ikk will ett don!


                        Andy








                        >
                        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have, is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis shrive. Ikk have tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid noedig.
                        > >
                        > > Andy
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch and German members do pretty alright here.
                        > > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                        > >
                        >
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my
                        > > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like this one.
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being typing.
                        > > > >  
                        > > > > -- Rob
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • chamavian
                        Maybe it s already a good start to reverse the FS to English wordbook
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 12, 2010
                          Maybe it's already a good start to reverse the FS to English wordbook

                          http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cDfeTJUuJznYG5D0CP4s6ERN8sQ3TasllqqVt42EGR3s31jGx2-_DX9QndZQ14SkdPuGO4ejxORPctWt200/Vordboken/Folksprak%20to%20english.html

                          but I myself, I wouldn't know how to do that


                          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Cool Andy that you're writing in FS!
                          > > A few remarks (please don't take it as criticism)
                          > > It is "mi" not "mikk"
                          > > and the word order is:
                          > > doch watt wi have noedig
                          > > magshej ikk kann don ett
                          > > En av uns mot shrive des
                          > > etc
                          > >
                          > > So don't take this as criticism and don't let you (or anyone) stop
                          > > this from trying!
                          >
                          > Ikk nem ett niht als kritik, doh als help, tank di. Wi werklik have noedig en English-Folksprak wordbok, doh ett is en groet arbed! Ikk shall med David spreke. Ikk is niht seker, datt ikk will ett don!
                          >
                          >
                          > Andy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi noedig have, is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis shrive. Ikk have tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid noedig.
                          > > >
                          > > > Andy
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch and German members do pretty alright here.
                          > > > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling & grammar) in my
                          > > > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list like this one.
                          > > > > >  
                          > > > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them being typing.
                          > > > > >  
                          > > > > > -- Rob
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • David Parke
                          Ek men datt en god beginning mag wese umrekkene de English-Frenkisch wordbok. Ek ha beginned datt ond ha ferrehted A-C. Ek ferandered de Frenkisch worden to
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 13, 2010
                            Ek men datt en god beginning mag wese umrekkene de English-Frenkisch
                            wordbok. Ek ha beginned datt ond ha ferrehted A-C.
                            Ek ferandered de Frenkisch worden to der Folksprak kognaten. Per
                            eksempel Frenkisch schreck to Folksprak shrekk.

                            Magshej somme ander medliden moege kunne umrekkene de rest av dis EN-FK
                            wordbok. Ek ha to mannig affaeres nu. Ek kann fershaffe ju med de
                            datafilen for dis. Ett iss ser leht to redigere, fordatt ett is bloet en
                            .txt fil.

                            On 13/11/2010 20:21, chamavian wrote:
                            >
                            > Maybe it's already a good start to reverse the FS to English wordbook
                            >
                            > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cDfeTJUuJznYG5D0CP4s6ERN8sQ3TasllqqVt42EGR3s31jGx2-_DX9QndZQ14SkdPuGO4ejxORPctWt200/Vordboken/Folksprak%20to%20english.html
                            >
                            > but I myself, I wouldn't know how to do that
                            >
                            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Cool Andy that you're writing in FS!
                            > > > A few remarks (please don't take it as criticism)
                            > > > It is "mi" not "mikk"
                            > > > and the word order is:
                            > > > doch watt wi have noedig
                            > > > magshej ikk kann don ett
                            > > > En av uns mot shrive des
                            > > > etc
                            > > >
                            > > > So don't take this as criticism and don't let you (or anyone) stop
                            > > > this from trying!
                            > >
                            > > Ikk nem ett niht als kritik, doh als help, tank di. Wi werklik have
                            > noedig en English-Folksprak wordbok, doh ett is en groet arbed! Ikk
                            > shall med David spreke. Ikk is niht seker, datt ikk will ett don!
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Andy
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > >
                            > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak
                            > shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi
                            > noedig have, is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis
                            > shrive. Ikk have tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid
                            > noedig.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Andy
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of
                            > English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch
                            > and German members do pretty alright here.
                            > > > > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender <robertpboender@>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling &
                            > grammar) in my
                            > > > > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list
                            > like this one.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them
                            > being typing.
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > -- Rob
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > > > > > >
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3253 - Release Date: 11/12/10 10:40:00
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • chamavian
                            That would help a lot. But we have to keep in mind that Folksprak is not Frenkish, of course, so it is not just a matter of changing vowels and spelling. The
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 13, 2010
                              That would help a lot. But we have to keep in mind that Folksprak is not Frenkish, of course, so it is not just a matter of changing vowels and spelling. The established form of Folksprak is to be found in the file Folksprak to English dictionary the link is referring to.

                              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Ek men datt en god beginning mag wese umrekkene de English-Frenkisch
                              > wordbok. Ek ha beginned datt ond ha ferrehted A-C.
                              > Ek ferandered de Frenkisch worden to der Folksprak kognaten. Per
                              > eksempel Frenkisch schreck to Folksprak shrekk.
                              >
                              > Magshej somme ander medliden moege kunne umrekkene de rest av dis EN-FK
                              > wordbok. Ek ha to mannig affaeres nu. Ek kann fershaffe ju med de
                              > datafilen for dis. Ett iss ser leht to redigere, fordatt ett is bloet en
                              > .txt fil.
                              >
                              > On 13/11/2010 20:21, chamavian wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Maybe it's already a good start to reverse the FS to English wordbook
                              > >
                              > > http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cDfeTJUuJznYG5D0CP4s6ERN8sQ3TasllqqVt42EGR3s31jGx2-_DX9QndZQ14SkdPuGO4ejxORPctWt200/Vordboken/Folksprak%20to%20english.html
                              > >
                              > > but I myself, I wouldn't know how to do that
                              > >
                              > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Cool Andy that you're writing in FS!
                              > > > > A few remarks (please don't take it as criticism)
                              > > > > It is "mi" not "mikk"
                              > > > > and the word order is:
                              > > > > doch watt wi have noedig
                              > > > > magshej ikk kann don ett
                              > > > > En av uns mot shrive des
                              > > > > etc
                              > > > >
                              > > > > So don't take this as criticism and don't let you (or anyone) stop
                              > > > > this from trying!
                              > > >
                              > > > Ikk nem ett niht als kritik, doh als help, tank di. Wi werklik have
                              > > noedig en English-Folksprak wordbok, doh ett is en groet arbed! Ikk
                              > > shall med David spreke. Ikk is niht seker, datt ikk will ett don!
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Andy
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Ja, ji shrive ser god English. Ond ja, de shrive upp Folksprak
                              > > shulde beter wese (ikk ontshuldige mikk for de fele). Doh wat wi
                              > > noedig have, is en English-Folksprak wordbok. En fon uns mot dis
                              > > shrive. Ikk have tid, magshej kann ikk it don. Doh have ikk fel tid
                              > > noedig.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Andy
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I make them all the time, too. And for non native speakers of
                              > > English, not living in an anglophone country, us Swedes, Danes, Dutch
                              > > and German members do pretty alright here.
                              > > > > > > But of course even better would be: writing in Folksprak
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender <robertpboender@>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > I apologize for the multitude of errors (typos, spelling &
                              > > grammar) in my
                              > > > > > > > previous posts. Shouldn't be happening on a discussion list
                              > > like this one.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > The reason: I was doing too many things at once, one of them
                              > > being typing.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > -- Rob
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                              > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3253 - Release Date: 11/12/10 10:40:00
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.