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Re: New Words

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  • chamavian
    Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me, me(d)egevoel may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use it and one of us even didn t know
    Message 1 of 115 , Oct 31, 2010
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      Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me,
      "me(d)egevoel" may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use it and one of us even didn't know the word existed at all. Maybe it is just a translation of the German word, but because Dutch already has "medelijden" and "medeleven", it never got into real use.
      That means it's quite obscure, isn't it?
      So not every word that is found in the Dutch dictionary is used in real language. I bet that goes for the other languages as well.

      But I'm not against a FS "medgefoel", because it's a pretty self obvious word, more so than "medlid" or "medleven" orso.


      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I've found "medegevoel" in several dictionaries.
      > It's a similar construction to DE Mitgefühl and DA/NO medfølelse. I
      > would have thought it makes a valid FS word -- unless it really is
      > obscure in one or more languages.
      > So i'd propose FS medgefoel.
      >
      > For a match stick, I'd proposed "lunt" -- based in NL lont, DE Lunte,
      > DA/NO lunte. Scots English also has "lunt"
      > This word might also mean a fuse or wick.
      >
      >
      > On 30/10/2010 07:45, chamavian wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender
      > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >"Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used
      > > by social
      > > > >workers or gurus...
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > :lol: Prolly gurus only. I'm kind of a social worker (psych. nurse)
      > > and I've
      > > > never used that word, nor seen/heard it being used by others. Looks
      > > like a
      > > > neologism to me.
      > >
      > > I myself work as a social worker as well, I'm a professional guardian
      > > or "youth protection worker" for minors who have no parents or who
      > > can't stay with them according to the judge... My elder sister is a
      > > psychiatrical nurse just like you. She used to live and work in The
      > > Hague, Leidschendam etc., do I remember correctly that you live there?
      > > but she moved back to the East years ago.
      > >
      > > I wouldn't use "meegevoel" myself either, but I think the best way to
      > > pronounce it would be with a Brabantish or Limburgish accent, with a
      > > very long monophthong EE, a "soft G", an unvoiced V and a thin L
      > > ["me::G'@vul] ;-) vs Standard Dutch ["meIx@v'uL]
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > > I must admit I can easily imagine some of the 'group therapy
      > > pluggers' using it,
      > > > though.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
      > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 5:33:27 PM
      > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
      > > >
      > > > Â
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > On 28/10/2010 10:57, swartsaxon wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > A better arrangement of my last posting:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > av ond to (adv) sounds like "to and fro"?
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > fram tid to tid (adv) = "from time to time"? What about
      > > fan/af
      > > > > > = from?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > This is one area that I am unsure of how to do in
      > > Folkspraak. We have
      > > > > > > > certain meanings that we might want to distinguish with
      > > different
      > > > > > words.
      > > > > > > > 1. from as in the original location of something.
      > > > > > > > 2. of as in a possessed by or belonging to something or someone.
      > > > > > > > 3. by as in by means of, or caused by.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > German uses "aus" and "her" for 1. Maybe even "von". It uses
      > > "von"
      > > > > > 2 and
      > > > > > > > 3. It also uses "durch" for 3.
      > > > > > > > English uses 1. from, 2. of, 3 by. English "from" is
      > > unrelated to DE
      > > > > > > > von. EN of and off is related to DE ab. off and ab can have
      > > similar
      > > > > > > > usages but of and ab do not.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > BTW,"nu ond dann", "av ond to" and "av/fram tid to tid" are all
      > > > > > phrases
      > > > > > > > that I think mean "sometimes" or "occasionally"
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > So will Folksprak have av, fon, fram, and ut? av = off, fon = of,
      > > > > > fram = from, ut = out of? "By = by means of" perhaps turj (or
      > > mid for
      > > > > > vehicles, like German); = caused by perhaps fram or fon (cf. German
      > > > > > von, Dutch van in this use; Swedish av, I believe).
      > > > > >
      > > > > > kondolence (n) = condolence(s); perhaps midlid(en) or bilid(en)
      > > > > > better, cf. German Beileid
      > > > > >
      > > > > I think somethiing on the lines of medgefoel. med + gefoel. M
      > > >
      > > > In Dutch, "gecondoleerd" or "condoleances" is the usual formula
      > > expressed when
      > > > someone died meaning "sorry for your loss". Or when a football club
      > > lost a
      > > > match, supporters of the winning club will say that to the losers.
      > > >
      > > > "Met oprechte deelneming" is the expression used on post cards one
      > > sends to the
      > > > relatives of the deceased.
      > > >
      > > > "Medeleven" or, more often used "medelijden" means "compassion".
      > > > "Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy expression used
      > > by social
      > > > workers or gurus...
      > > >
      > > > For FS I think "kondoleances" to express condolences, and "medlid"
      > > > for "compassion" will do.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > innen (adv) = within, inside
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > folkenmord (n) = genocide
      > > > > > > > > > genocid (n) = genocide. I don't see why we need two
      > > words for
      > > > > > the same thing.
      > > > > >
      > > > > I don't see what's wrong with 2 words for the same thing. For one
      > > thing
      > > > > having synonyms is of great help in improving style literature and
      > > > > enabling rhymes in poetry. Not sure who will want to write poems
      > > about
      > > > > genocide though.
      > > >
      > > > In Dutch we have both Volkerenmoord and Genocide.
      > > > Genocide is used more often: de Ruandese genocide, de Armeense
      > > genocide, de
      > > > genocide op de Bosnische moslims etc. but Volkerenmoord has a
      > > stronger, more
      > > > emotional connotation, and it's also more old-fashioned and used
      > > sometimes to
      > > > explain what the word Genocide means.
      > > > FS could have both words as well: "genocide" and "folkenmord".
      > > > Btw I think there are quite a lot of poems written about the
      > > genocide on the
      > > > Jews in WWII, and other genocides.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > tofridenstellend (a) = German zufriedenstellend
      > > > > > 'satisfactory'. I don't like using a calque of the German because
      > > > > > <tofriden> suggests to me putting someone at peace, pacifying or
      > > > > > assuaging, rather than satisfying. I would suggest using a
      > > derivative
      > > > > > of genog, perhaps *fergnogen (unless that means "suffice") or
      > > > > > *begnogen or *ergnogen or similar.
      > > > > >
      > > > > Well my FS vocabulary already has "tofridenstelle" as a verb.
      > > (appease,
      > > > > please, provide gratification, satisfy, suffice). So it follows
      > > that the
      > > > > present participle would make a word for satisfactory. And such
      > > > > constructions are used in NL tevredenstellend; DE
      > > zufriedenstellend; DA
      > > > > tilfredsstillende; NO tilfredsstillende; SV tillfredsställande
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > ferwajte (v) = Dutch verwachten 'to expect'
      > > > > >
      > > > > In my FS I have "wajte" which is one of the few actual
      > > "crosswords" in
      > > > > the Ingmar Roerdinkholder usage. That is, it's made up of a mix of
      > > > > similar-looking words that are mostly unrelated etymologically. It's
      > > > > based on EN wait, NL wachten, DE warten, DA/NO vente, SV vänta. I
      > > don't
      > > > > like crosswords because they ignore genuine etymological
      > > relationships
      > > > > such as DE warten is related to EN ward and guard.
      > > > > But anyway, I've got wajte because I really can't find much else
      > > better
      > > > > as a FS word for "wait".
      > > > > But in the continental Germlangs, it seems to be a common
      > > construction
      > > > > for a ver/for-/er- type of prefix to be added to the word for
      > > "wait" to
      > > > > make a word for "expect" or "anticipate". I would strongly suspect
      > > that
      > > > > these constructions are calques of one and other.
      > > > > So FS ferwajte is fer- + wajte. Based on NL verwachten; DE
      > > erwarten; DA
      > > > > forvente; NO forvente; SV förvänta
      > > >
      > > > Yeah... those crosswords. Btw is English "wait" the same as Dutch
      > > "wachten"? One
      > > > would expect a more etymological spelling like "weight", but then
      > > again, one can
      > > > never rely on English orthography of course.
      > > >
      > > > It's kind of the same exception as "majd" instead of "*magd"
      > > > But as far as I'm concerned, FS "wahte", "ferwahte" would be OK as
      > > well in this
      > > > case.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > transvestit (n) - self-explanatory
      > > > > > > > > > transsexuelle (n) - self-explanatory
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > kure (v) = Dutch keuren 'test, sample, taste, inspect,
      > > etc.';
      > > > > > or = German küren 'choose, elect'? Possibly either 'test,
      > > sample, try
      > > > > > out' or 'elect'.
      > > > > >
      > > > > FS's simple and conservative vowel phonology doesn't allow the
      > > diphthong
      > > > > that this has evolved into in German and English. But this word is
      > > based
      > > > > on EN cower, DE kauern and SV kura. All originally from Middle Low
      > > > > German kûren. The meaning should be something like "crouch" or
      > > "cringe".
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > garantere (v) = to guarantee
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > myler / mylener (n) = miller
      > > > > >
      > > > > It's from the word for "mill" and looking at the source languages,
      > > it's
      > > > > not obvious if there is a big majority one way or another if the word
      > > > > should end in -n. The Latin source "molinum" did end in -en.
      > > > >
      > > > > cf EN miller; NL molenaar; DE Müller; DA/NO møller; SV
      > > mjölnare; FR meunier
      > > > > cf EN mill; NL molen; DE Mühle; DA/NO mølle; SV mölla; FR moulin
      > > > >
      > > > > Another interesting thing. Some etymologists consider that the
      > > Germanic
      > > > > -er ending, the agent suffix, may be a Latin borrowing, from L.
      > > > > -arius.And the Dutch -aar ending and SV -are ending look more this
      > > way.
      > > >
      > > > Dutch does not have -er after other syllables with schwa such as
      > > -en, -el, in
      > > > that case it's -aar: -enaar, -elaar
      > > >
      > > > Molenaar (miller), gijzelaar (hostage), pleisteraar (plasterer)
      > > >
      > > > Sometimes after -n: winnaar, minnaar, but: beginner
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > kancel (n) = German Kanzel 'pulpit; cockpit; turret' - I
      > > > > > suggest choose one of those meanings, probably the
      > > etymologically most
      > > > > > correct one; are we still using <c> for /ts/?
      > > > > >
      > > > > It would perhaps have several meanings and derives from Latin
      > > cancelli.
      > > > > It's also a necessary root for word such as "kanceller"
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > hymne (n) = hymn
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > psalm (n) = psalm
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > lovgesang (n) = German Lobgesang 'hymn, song of praise,
      > > eulogy'
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > geologi (n) = geology
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > instyrting (n) = German Einsturz (< einstürzen) 'collapse,
      > > > > > fall-in'?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > krah (n) = German Krach 'crack, crash' (the sound); note
      > > > > > German Absturz '(airplane) crash' as well as 'fall, plunge';
      > > abstürzen
      > > > > > 'fall, plunge' as well as 'crash' of airplanes.
      > > > > >
      > > > > This is possibly an onomatopoeic word. But there are lots of words
      > > like
      > > > > this for a crash or crack in the source languages.
      > > > > eg EN crash; NL krach; DE Krach; DA krak; NO krakk; FR krach; RU
      > > ???? / krah
      > > > > Actually onomatopoeia is one area where I like "crosswords". In such
      > > > > situations you have lots of similar words of often uncertain
      > > etymology.
      > > > > And they are similar because they are imitating the same sound,
      > > rather
      > > > > than because they evolved from a common source.
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > tandpin (n) = toothpeg??
      > > > > >
      > > > > Nope the i in pin is long. Try tooth pain!
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > kaotish (a) = chaotic; how about maybe
      > > wirrish/werrish/warrish
      > > > > > or ferwirrend or similar
      > > > > >
      > > > > I have "ferwerre" meaning "unnerve, confuse, unsettle". So ferwerrend
      > > > > might or might not mean precisely the same as kaotish.
      > > > > I also have "unordening" =disorder, mess, chaos. So something like
      > > > > *unordeningsfull or *unordeningslik would have a similar meaning
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > strukturell (a) = structural; how about bulik or gebulik or
      > > > > > similar?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > neurolog (n) = Dutch neuroloog 'neurologist'; how about
      > > > > > *nervkenner or similar 'nerve-expert' or *nervwitenshapman or
      > > something
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > antaste (v) = German antasten 'touch; attack (probably
      > > e.g. of
      > > > > > diseases etc.)'; Dutch aantasten 'affect, harm; attack'
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > molestere (v) = Dutch molesteren 'molest' (in non-sexual
      > > > > > senses or no?) Are we keeping -eren- as the infinitive ending of
      > > > > > romance roots?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > hitsig (a) = German hitzig 'hot; heated, fierce (argument,
      > > > > > etc.)'. But shouldn't this be *hittig, after *hitt(e) 'heat' like
      > > > > > Dutch hitte? I think Dutch hitsig is merely a direct borrowing of
      > > > > > German hitzig.
      > > >
      > > > Dutch "hitsig" mean horny, especially for women ;-)
      > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > Yes is unclear of the best way to do this. A schematic approach
      > > would be
      > > > > to make a calque/loan translation. -- take the word for "heat" and
      > > add
      > > > > -ig. The naturalistic approach would be to treat it like FS was
      > > just one
      > > > > of the many languages that have borrowed from German hitzig.
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > brennend (a) = burning; ardent, fervent?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > offering (n) = offering (Dutch has offer in this sense)
      > > > > >
      > > > > FS isn't just a relexification of English and it's cognates won't
      > > always
      > > > > carry the exact sense as English words (or German cognates, or Dutch
      > > > > etc) It seems to be quite a common construction, after the form
      > > for the
      > > > > French offrande, to have a word meaning sacrifice, of a similar
      > > for to
      > > > > this. eg
      > > > > En offering; Nl offering, offerande; De Opferung; Da ofring; SV
      > > > > offrande; Fr offrande
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > offerte (n) = Dutch offerte '(monetary)offer, tender,
      > > quotation'
      > > > > >
      > > > > This would be more like an English offer. -- not a sacrifice, but
      > > a bid
      > > > > or tender or quotation.
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > anbod (n) = Dutch aanbod 'offer; supply'
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > illuminar (v) = illuminate? Shouldn't this be *erlyhte or
      > > > > > similar, like German erleuchten? Unless 'illuminate' a book with
      > > pictures?
      > > > > >
      > > > > Sorry, I got the proposed form wrong -- this is the Interlingua word.
      > > > > should be *illuminere.
      > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > civil (a) = German zivil, Dutch civiel, English
      > > civil(ian). I
      > > > > > think this should only = English civilian; for English civil there
      > > > > > should be a word derived from 'citizen' (like German
      > > bürgerlich), and
      > > > > > another word meaning 'polite'
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Andrew
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3221 - Release Date:
      > > 10/26/10
      > > > >18:34:00
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3225 - Release Date: 10/28/10 18:34:00
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • chamavian
      Great, Jesper, thanks for your reaction! Let s hope it will be an inspiration as well for other members with native or near native knowledge of German, Danish,
      Message 115 of 115 , Nov 4, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Great, Jesper, thanks for your reaction! Let's hope it will be an inspiration as well for other members with native or near native knowledge of German, Danish, Norwegian etc

        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jesper Engelbrektsson <jesper.engelbrektsson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well, maybe I could contribute, then. Hello to you all! I joined a while
        > back but didn't know if actually could be of that much help. My name is
        > Jesper and I'm a native Swedish speaker, I live in Gothenburg since a few
        > years back but originally come from Uddevalla further up the coast. I'm very
        > interested in languages in general but the germanic languages in particular.
        > I've studied a little bit of Dutch and German in the past.
        >
        > Anyway, I guess the easiest thing to help out with is to tell you when a
        > certain word may be in the dictionary but not necessarily in active use in
        > the language people speak. For example the most common word for the noun
        > "mill" is not "mölla". Most people will probably never even have heard that
        > one. The standard word is "kvarn".
        >
        > Also, the Swedish for "feeling" is "känsla", although a fair few people will
        > probably passively know that in Norwegian it's "fölelse" (I use the ö
        > because it's on my keyboard). Helpfully though, the word "medkänsla" means
        > sympathy.
        >
        > (Lastly, the present tense of the verb "hålla" is "håller").
        >
        >
        > God natt!
        >
        >
        >
        > 2010/11/4 swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > It is "medgefoel" not *midgefoel, we recently agreed to have "med"
        > > instead of * mid, *medd etc.
        > > >
        > > > Btw I was thinking that it would be very nice if we'd have some more
        > > German, Danish, Swedish language examples here.
        > > > Now Rob and I often give examples of Dutch words and their usage, but for
        > > this site, we should have at least someone who could do the same for German.
        > > And for Scandinavian as well.
        > >
        > > Ja, jag hållar med dig!
        > >
        > > Andreas (Andy)
        > >
        > >
        > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Yes, you're right, we should have many words to express the different
        > > shades of meaning of similar words. Keep <medgefoel> (or <midgefoel>: David
        > > will settle this) and something like <medliden> or <midliden>, and look at
        > > other possible formations too to express subtle differences of meaning
        > > and/or usage.
        > > > >
        > > > > Andy
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob
        > > Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Andy, you sure have a point, and 'medgefoel' seems broader but
        > > also less intense
        > > > > > than 'medliden'. As both words seem to be composites of roots that
        > > are already
        > > > > > FS words, it can be argued that both words are already valid FS
        > > words, near
        > > > > > synonyms with a slightly different meaning.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > There is no 'rule' for keeping the FS vocabulary limited, is there?
        > > That would
        > > > > > seem dubbleplus ungood to me ;)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Â
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > From: swartsaxon <anjarrette@>
        > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:10:55 AM
        > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Â
        > > > > > Well, I thought it was obvious that I meant <-gefoel> in <medgefoel>
        > > was not
        > > > > > strong enough, as opposed to <-liden> in <*medliden> (medelijden), or
        > > maybe
        > > > > > <-rewen> in <*medrewen> (= *mederouwen, if that could have existed in
        > > Dutch).
        > > > > > "Together-feeling" or "together-emotion" does not sound as strong or
        > > as
        > > > > > compassionate as "together-suffering", or maybe "together-mourning"
        > > (<*medrewen>
        > > > > > as I suggested below). But if you all think it's appropriate and
        > > best, I'll
        > > > > > definitely go along with it.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > andy
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > No, "gefoel" isn't strong enough, that means just emotion, feeling,
        > > but
        > > > > > >"medgefoel" is: "ikk willde ju anbyde min medgefoel gern" = I'd like
        > > to express
        > > > > > >(offer) my condolences/my compassion to you
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I agree with the conclusion that "medgefoel" is quite an
        > > obvious word -ÂÂ
        > > > > > >which
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > seems an important Folkspraak criterium to me.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I just wonder whether <gefoel> = 'feeling' is a strong enough
        > > word to convey
        > > > > > >the emotion one feels at another's loss of a person they loved. I
        > > prefer
        > > > > > >medelijden's formation, as it is based on suffering, although the
        > > actual meaning
        > > > > > >in Dutch is not quite right for 'condolences' (medelijden = pity,
        > > compassion
        > > > > > >according to my dictionary). My Dutch-English dictionary says that
        > > Dutch also
        > > > > > >has <rouwbeklag> for 'condolences'. Maybe something based on the
        > > Folksprak word
        > > > > > >for 'mourn', such as *middruren (if *druren = German <trauern>; or
        > > possibly
        > > > > > >*midrewen with *rewen = Dutch <rouwen> from Germanic *hrewwan
        > > (English <rue>)).
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > FS "Lunt" does sound like "lont" to me, which I would not
        > > immediately
        > > > > > >associate
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > with a match... In Dutch, a 'lont' is the string attached to a
        > > fire cracker
        > > > > > >or a
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > dynamite stave, that is lit up to explode the thing. So, it
        > > comes close but
        > > > > > >it
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > is not the same thing. Of course, my gut feeling should not at
        > > all
        > > > > > >influence a
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > decision; I'm just saying what I would think of, as an
        > > average native
        > > > > > >speaker of
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Dutch.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Yes, I don't think a word based on Dutch <lont> and German
        > > <Lunte> is right
        > > > > > >for 'match'. I think a formation similar to Swedish
        > > <t�ndsticka> is better.
        > > > > > >Note Swedish <sticka> = splinter, peg, little stick.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I must admit I don't exaclty know what a "fuse" is, though I
        > > guess it's
        > > > > > >part of
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > an engine or electronic apparatus. @ Chamavian: is a "fuse" a
        > > "zekering"?
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > <Fuse>: a) a wick (piece of string, sometimes immersed in a
        > > combustible
        > > > > > >liquid) or tube filled with combustible material, attached to an
        > > explosive,
        > > > > > >which is lit at one end, then burns quickly down the length of the
        > > string or
        > > > > > >tube until it hits the explosive and sets it off, causing an
        > > explosion. Thus
        > > > > > >partly the same as Dutch <lont>.
        > > > > > > > b) a safety device placed in an electrical circuit consisting of
        > > a repaceable
        > > > > > >plug or tube containing wire or metal that will melt and break the
        > > circuit if
        > > > > > >the current exeeds a specified amperage. Thus = Dutch <zekering>,
        > > <stop>.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > And I don't know the meaning of "wick"... Babelfish
        > > translates it intio
        > > > > > >Dutch as
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > "wiek", which is either one of the four arms of a windmill, or
        > > part of a
        > > > > > >bird's
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > wing... But in the context of fire I think of the cinematic
        > > "The
        > > > > > >Wickerman"...
        > > > > > > > > ÂÂ
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > <Wick>: a piece of string running through and out of a candle,
        > > used to light
        > > > > > >the candle and on which the flame burns, drawing up the wax for
        > > combustion; also
        > > > > > >a similar piece of tightly woven cloth immersed in the oil of a
        > > lantern, used to
        > > > > > >draw up the oil, and then lit so that a flame burns at the top of
        > > the wick and
        > > > > > >oil continues to be drawn up the wick to feed the flame. Thus =
        > > Dutch <pit>,
        > > > > > ><kousje>, <katoen>. My dictionary also gives <wiek> as the first
        > > translation of
        > > > > > ><wick> but then translates <wiek> as "sail, vane; wing", so clearly
        > > dictionaries
        > > > > > >can't always be trusted.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Andy
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
        > > > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 1:02:19 PM
        > > > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me,
        > > > > > > > > "me(d)egevoel" may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use
        > > it and one
        > > > > > >of us
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > even didn't know the word existed at all. Maybe it is just a
        > > translation of
        > > > > > >the
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > German word, but because Dutch already has "medelijden" and
        > > "medeleven", it
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > never got into real use.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > That means it's quite obscure, isn't it?
        > > > > > > > > So not every word that is found in the Dutch dictionary is used
        > > in real
        > > > > > > > > language. I bet that goes for the other languages as well.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > But I'm not against a FS "medgefoel", because it's a pretty
        > > self obvious
        > > > > > >word,
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > more so than "medlid" or "medleven" orso.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > David Parke <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I've found "medegevoel" in several dictionaries.
        > > > > > > > > > It's a similar construction to DE MitgefÃÆ'¼hl and DA/NO
        > > medfÃÆ'¸lelse. I
        > > > > > > > > > would have thought it makes a valid FS word -- unless it
        > > really is
        > > > > > > > > > obscure in one or more languages.
        > > > > > > > > > So i'd propose FS medgefoel.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > For a match stick, I'd proposed "lunt" -- based in NL lont,
        > > DE Lunte,
        > > > > > > > > > DA/NO lunte. Scots English also has "lunt"
        > > > > > > > > > This word might also mean a fuse or wick.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > On 30/10/2010 07:45, chamavian wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
        > > Rob Boender
        > > > > > > > > > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >"Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy
        > > expression used
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > by social
        > > > > > > > > > > > >workers or gurus...
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > :lol: Prolly gurus only. I'm kind ofÃÆ'‚ a social worker
        > > (psych. nurse)
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > and I've
        > > > > > > > > > > > never used that word, nor seen/heard it being used by
        > > others. Looks
        > > > > > > > > > > like a
        > > > > > > > > > > > neologism to me.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I myself work as a social worker as well, I'm a
        > > professional guardian
        > > > > > > > > > > or "youth protection worker" for minors who have no parents
        > > or who
        > > > > > > > > > > can't stay with them according to the judge... My elder
        > > sister is a
        > > > > > > > > > > psychiatrical nurse just like you. She used to live and
        > > work in The
        > > > > > > > > > > Hague, Leidschendam etc., do I remember correctly that you
        > > live there?
        > > > > > > > > > > but she moved back to the East years ago.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't use "meegevoel" myself either, but I think the
        > > best way to
        > > > > > > > > > > pronounce it would be with a Brabantish or Limburgish
        > > accent, with a
        > > > > > > > > > > very long monophthong EE, a "soft G", an unvoiced V and a
        > > thin L
        > > > > > > > > > > ["me::G'@vul] ;-) vs Standard Dutch ["meIx@v'uL]
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I must admit I can easily imagine some of the 'group
        > > therapy
        > > > > > > > > > > pluggers' using it,
        > > > > > > > > > > > though.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
        > > > > > > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
        > > folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>
        > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 5:33:27 PM
        > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
        > > David Parke <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28/10/2010 10:57, swartsaxon wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better arrangement of my last posting:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
        > > David Parke <parked@>
        > > > > > >wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > av ond to (adv) sounds like "to and fro"?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fram tid to tid (adv) = "from time to time"?
        > > What about
        > > > > > > > > > > fan/af
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > = from?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is one area that I am unsure of how to do in
        > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Folkspraak. We have
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certain meanings that we might want to
        > > distinguish with
        > > > > > > > > > > different
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > words.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. from as in the original location of something.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. of as in a possessed by or belonging to
        > > something or
        > > > > > >someone.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. by as in by means of, or caused by.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > German uses "aus" and "her" for 1. Maybe even
        > > "von". It uses
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > "von"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. It also uses "durch" for 3.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > English uses 1. from, 2. of, 3 by. English "from"
        > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > unrelated to DE
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > von. EN of and off is related to DE ab. off and
        > > ab can have
        > > > > > > > > > > similar
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > usages but of and ab do not.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW,"nu ond dann", "av ond to" and "av/fram tid
        > > to tid" are
        > > > > > >all
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > phrases
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that I think mean "sometimes" or "occasionally"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So will Folksprak have av, fon, fram, and ut? av =
        > > off, fon =
        > > > > > >of,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > fram = from, ut = out of? "By = by means of" perhaps
        > > turj (or
        > > > > > > > > > > mid for
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > vehicles, like German); = caused by perhaps fram or
        > > fon (cf.
        > > > > > >German
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > von, Dutch van in this use; Swedish av, I believe).
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > kondolence (n) = condolence(s); perhaps midlid(en) or
        > > bilid(en)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > better, cf. German Beileid
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I think somethiing on the lines of medgefoel. med +
        > > gefoel. M
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > In Dutch, "gecondoleerd" or "condoleances" is the usual
        > > formula
        > > > > > > > > > > expressed when
        > > > > > > > > > > > someone died meaning "sorry for your loss". Or when a
        > > football club
        > > > > > > > > > > lost a
        > > > > > > > > > > > match, supporters of the winning club will say that to
        > > the losers.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Met oprechte deelneming" is the expression used on post
        > > cards one
        > > > > > > > > > > sends to the
        > > > > > > > > > > > relatives of the deceased.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Medeleven" or, more often used "medelijden" means
        > > "compassion".
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy
        > > expression used
        > > > > > > > > > > by social
        > > > > > > > > > > > workers or gurus...
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > For FS I think "kondoleances" to express condolences, and
        > > "medlid"
        > > > > > > > > > > > for "compassion" will do.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > innen (adv) = within, inside
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > folkenmord (n) = genocide
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genocid (n) = genocide. I don't see why we
        > > need two
        > > > > > > > > > > words for
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same thing.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see what's wrong with 2 words for the same
        > > thing. For one
        > > > > > > > > > > thing
        > > > > > > > > > > > > having synonyms is of great help in improving style
        > > literature and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > enabling rhymes in poetry. Not sure who will want to
        > > write poems
        > > > > > > > > > > about
        > > > > > > > > > > > > genocide though.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > In Dutch we have both Volkerenmoord and Genocide.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Genocide is used more often: de Ruandese genocide, de
        > > Armeense
        > > > > > > > > > > genocide, de
        > > > > > > > > > > > genocide op de Bosnische moslims etc. but Volkerenmoord
        > > has a
        > > > > > > > > > > stronger, more
        > > > > > > > > > > > emotional connotation, and it's also more old-fashioned
        > > and used
        > > > > > > > > > > sometimes to
        > > > > > > > > > > > explain what the word Genocide means.
        > > > > > > > > > > > FS could have both words as well: "genocide" and
        > > "folkenmord".
        > > > > > > > > > > > Btw I think there are quite a lot of poems written about
        > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > genocide on the
        > > > > > > > > > > > Jews in WWII, and other genocides.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tofridenstellend (a) = German
        > > zufriedenstellend
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'satisfactory'. I don't like using a calque of the
        > > German
        > > > > > because
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > <tofriden> suggests to me putting someone at peace,
        > > pacifying or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > assuaging, rather than satisfying. I would suggest
        > > using a
        > > > > > > > > > > derivative
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > of genog, perhaps *fergnogen (unless that means
        > > "suffice") or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > *begnogen or *ergnogen or similar.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my FS vocabulary already has "tofridenstelle" as a
        > > verb.
        > > > > > > > > > > (appease,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > please, provide gratification, satisfy, suffice). So it
        > > follows
        > > > > > > > > > > that the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > present participle would make a word for satisfactory.
        > > And such
        > > > > > > > > > > > > constructions are used in NL tevredenstellend; DE
        > > > > > > > > > > zufriedenstellend; DA
        > > > > > > > > > > > > tilfredsstillende; NO tilfredsstillende; SV
        > > tillfredsstÃÆ'�'¤llande
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ferwajte (v) = Dutch verwachten 'to expect'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > In my FS I have "wajte" which is one of the few actual
        > > > > > > > > > > "crosswords" in
        > > > > > > > > > > > > the Ingmar Roerdinkholder usage. That is, it's made up
        > > of a mix of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > similar-looking words that are mostly unrelated
        > > etymologically.
        > > > > > >It's
        > > > > > > > > > > > > based on EN wait, NL wachten, DE warten, DA/NO vente,
        > > SV vÃÆ'�'¤nta.
        > > > > > >I
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > > > > > like crosswords because they ignore genuine
        > > etymological
        > > > > > > > > > > relationships
        > > > > > > > > > > > > such as DE warten is related to EN ward and guard.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > But anyway, I've got wajte because I really can't find
        > > much else
        > > > > > > > > > > better
        > > > > > > > > > > > > as a FS word for "wait".
        > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the continental Germlangs, it seems to be a
        > > common
        > > > > > > > > > > construction
        > > > > > > > > > > > > for a ver/for-/er- type of prefix to be added to the
        > > word for
        > > > > > > > > > > "wait" to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > make a word for "expect" or "anticipate". I would
        > > strongly suspect
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > > > these constructions are calques of one and other.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > So FS ferwajte is fer- + wajte. Based on NL verwachten;
        > > DE
        > > > > > > > > > > erwarten; DA
        > > > > > > > > > > > > forvente; NO forvente; SV fÃÆ'�'¶rvÃÆ'�'¤nta
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah... those crosswords. Btw is English "wait" the same
        > > as Dutch
        > > > > > > > > > > "wachten"? One
        > > > > > > > > > > > would expect a more etymological spelling like "weight",
        > > but then
        > > > > > > > > > > again, one can
        > > > > > > > > > > > never rely on English orthography of course.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > It's kind of the same exception as "majd" instead of
        > > "*magd"
        > > > > > > > > > > > But as far as I'm concerned, FS "wahte", "ferwahte" would
        > > be OK as
        > > > > > > > > > > well in this
        > > > > > > > > > > > case.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > transvestit (n) - self-explanatory
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > transsexuelle (n) - self-explanatory
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kure (v) = Dutch keuren 'test, sample, taste,
        > > inspect,
        > > > > > > > > > > etc.';
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > or = German kÃÆ'�'¼ren 'choose, elect'? Possibly
        > > either 'test,
        > > > > > > > > > > sample, try
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > out' or 'elect'.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > FS's simple and conservative vowel phonology doesn't
        > > allow the
        > > > > > > > > > > diphthong
        > > > > > > > > > > > > that this has evolved into in German and English. But
        > > this word is
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > based
        > > > > > > > > > > > > on EN cower, DE kauern and SV kura. All originally from
        > > Middle Low
        > > > > > > > > > > > > German kÃÆ'�'»ren. The meaning should be something
        > > like "crouch" or
        > > > > > > > > > > "cringe".
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > garantere (v) = to guarantee
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > myler / mylener (n) = miller
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > It's from the word for "mill" and looking at the source
        > > languages,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > it's
        > > > > > > > > > > > > not obvious if there is a big majority one way or
        > > another if the
        > > > > > >word
        > > > > > > > > > > > > should end in -n. The Latin source "molinum" did end in
        > > -en.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cf EN miller; NL molenaar; DE MÃÆ'�'¼ller; DA/NO
        > > mÃÆ'�'¸ller; SV
        > > > > > > > > > > mjÃÆ'�'¶lnare; FR meunier
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cf EN mill; NL molen; DE MÃÆ'�'¼hle; DA/NO
        > > mÃÆ'�'¸lle; SV mÃÆ'�'¶lla; FR
        > > > > > >moulin
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing. Some etymologists consider
        > > that the
        > > > > > > > > > > Germanic
        > > > > > > > > > > > > -er ending, the agent suffix, may be a Latin borrowing,
        > > from L.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > -arius.And the Dutch -aar ending and SV -are ending
        > > look more this
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > way.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch does not have -er after other syllables with schwa
        > > such as
        > > > > > > > > > > -en, -el, in
        > > > > > > > > > > > that case it's -aar: -enaar, -elaar
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Molenaar (miller), gijzelaar (hostage), pleisteraar
        > > (plasterer)
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes after -n: winnaar, minnaar, but: beginner
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kancel (n) = German Kanzel 'pulpit; cockpit;
        > > turret' - I
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest choose one of those meanings, probably the
        > > > > > > > > > > etymologically most
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > correct one; are we still using <c> for /ts/?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > It would perhaps have several meanings and derives from
        > > Latin
        > > > > > > > > > > cancelli.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > It's also a necessary root for word such as "kanceller"
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hymne (n) = hymn
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > psalm (n) = psalm
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovgesang (n) = German Lobgesang 'hymn, song
        > > of praise,
        > > > > > > > > > > eulogy'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geologi (n) = geology
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instyrting (n) = German Einsturz (<
        > > einstÃÆ'�'¼rzen)
        > > > > > >'collapse,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > fall-in'?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > krah (n) = German Krach 'crack, crash' (the
        > > sound); note
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > German Absturz '(airplane) crash' as well as 'fall,
        > > plunge';
        > > > > > > > > > > abstÃÆ'�'¼rzen
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'fall, plunge' as well as 'crash' of airplanes.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > This is possibly an onomatopoeic word. But there are
        > > lots of words
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > > > > > this for a crash or crack in the source languages.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > eg EN crash; NL krach; DE Krach; DA krak; NO krakk; FR
        > > krach; RU
        > > > > > > > > > > ???? / krah
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually onomatopoeia is one area where I like
        > > "crosswords". In
        > > > > > >such
        > > > > > > > > > > > > situations you have lots of similar words of often
        > > uncertain
        > > > > > > > > > > etymology.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > And they are similar because they are imitating the
        > > same sound,
        > > > > > > > > > > rather
        > > > > > > > > > > > > than because they evolved from a common source.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tandpin (n) = toothpeg??
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope the i in pin is long. Try tooth pain!
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kaotish (a) = chaotic; how about maybe
        > > > > > > > > > > wirrish/werrish/warrish
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > or ferwirrend or similar
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I have "ferwerre" meaning "unnerve, confuse, unsettle".
        > > So
        > > > > > >ferwerrend
        > > > > > > > > > > > > might or might not mean precisely the same as kaotish.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have "unordening" =disorder, mess, chaos. So
        > > something like
        > > > > > > > > > > > > *unordeningsfull or *unordeningslik would have a
        > > similar meaning
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strukturell (a) = structural; how about bulik
        > > or gebulik
        > > > > > >or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neurolog (n) = Dutch neuroloog 'neurologist';
        > > how about
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > *nervkenner or similar 'nerve-expert' or
        > > *nervwitenshapman or
        > > > > > > > > > > something
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > antaste (v) = German antasten 'touch; attack
        > > (probably
        > > > > > > > > > > e.g. of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > diseases etc.)'; Dutch aantasten 'affect, harm;
        > > attack'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > molestere (v) = Dutch molesteren 'molest' (in
        > > non-sexual
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > senses or no?) Are we keeping -eren- as the
        > > infinitive ending of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > romance roots?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hitsig (a) = German hitzig 'hot; heated,
        > > fierce
        > > > > > >(argument,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.)'. But shouldn't this be *hittig, after *hitt(e)
        > > 'heat'
        > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch hitte? I think Dutch hitsig is merely a direct
        > > borrowing
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > German hitzig.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch "hitsig" mean horny, especially for women ;-)
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes is unclear of the best way to do this. A schematic
        > > approach
        > > > > > > > > > > would be
        > > > > > > > > > > > > to make a calque/loan translation. -- take the word for
        > > "heat" and
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > add
        > > > > > > > > > > > > -ig. The naturalistic approach would be to treat it
        > > like FS was
        > > > > > > > > > > just one
        > > > > > > > > > > > > of the many languages that have borrowed from German
        > > hitzig.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brennend (a) = burning; ardent, fervent?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > offering (n) = offering (Dutch has offer in
        > > this sense)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > FS isn't just a relexification of English and it's
        > > cognates won't
        > > > > > > > > > > always
        > > > > > > > > > > > > carry the exact sense as English words (or German
        > > cognates, or
        > > > > > >Dutch
        > > > > > > > > > > > > etc) It seems to be quite a common construction, after
        > > the form
        > > > > > > > > > > for the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > French offrande, to have a word meaning sacrifice, of a
        > > similar
        > > > > > > > > > > for to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > this. eg
        > > > > > > > > > > > > En offering; Nl offering, offerande; De Opferung; Da
        > > ofring; SV
        > > > > > > > > > > > > offrande; Fr offrande
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > offerte (n) = Dutch offerte '(monetary)offer,
        > > tender,
        > > > > > > > > > > quotation'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be more like an English offer. -- not a
        > > sacrifice, but
        > > > > > > > > > > a bid
        > > > > > > > > > > > > or tender or quotation.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anbod (n) = Dutch aanbod 'offer; supply'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > illuminar (v) = illuminate? Shouldn't this be
        > > *erlyhte
        > > > > > or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar, like German erleuchten? Unless 'illuminate'
        > > a book with
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > pictures?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I got the proposed form wrong -- this is the
        > > Interlingua
        > > > > > >word.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > should be *illuminere.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > civil (a) = German zivil, Dutch civiel,
        > > English
        > > > > > > > > > > civil(ian). I
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > think this should only = English civilian; for
        > > English civil
        > > > > > >there
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be a word derived from 'citizen' (like German
        > > > > > > > > > > bÃÆ'�'¼rgerlich), and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > another word meaning 'polite'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3221 -
        > > Release Date:
        > > > > > > > > > > 10/26/10
        > > > > > > > > > > > >18:34:00
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3225 - Release
        > > Date:
        > > > > > >10/28/10
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >18:34:00
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
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        > > > > >
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        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
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        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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