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Re: introduction

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  • chamavian
    Actually, the second line of Vader Jacob is slaapt GIJ nog? , instead of slaap je nog = dormez-vous. But it s true that Francophone Belgians usually speak
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 30, 2010
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      Actually, the second line of "Vader Jacob" is "slaapt GIJ nog?", instead of "slaap je nog" = dormez-vous.
      But it's true that Francophone Belgians usually speak (Belgian) Standard Dutch rather than a so-called Flemish dialect - in Belgium, dialect use among the Dutch speaking community (i.e.: the Flemish people)is still very wide-spread.

      Intervocally -d- often is deleted or becomes -i- [j] in colloquial Dutch, whereas the written Standard maintains it.

      We always say goeie ["xuj@], dooie ["do:j@], rooie ["ro:j@] instead of goede, dode, rode (good, red, dead); la (drawer) instead of lade, mee for mede etc.
      In dialects in toponyms, especially in the South: Nisselrooi for Nistelrode, Kirchraoi for Kerkrade.

      I myself think intervocal -d- in older Dutch was pronounced [D] as English voiced -th-.

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "anjarrette" <anjarrette@...> wrote:
      >
      > Older Dutch had <vlieden> "flee" similar in sound-development to <geschieden>, OLF *fliehan, *flien, OS fliohan (now <(ont)vluchten>).
      >
      > In childhood my mother's best friend's daughter (my mother's best friend was from the French-speaking part of Belgium) decided to teach me "Frère Jacques" in Flemish (I later realized it was merely normal Dutch, since she used <je> and not <gij>). The line "Alle klokken luiden" I swear sounded like "Alle klokken luien", as though the <d> was not pronounced. Since <lui> "people" is missing its *d from OLF *liudi, is it possible that <luiden> also lost its /d/ in some regions' pronunciation?
      >
      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I'm pretty sure that the "schien" in misschien is a remnant of how
      > > "geschieden" was once. The original word, (looking at German and Scandy
      > > cognates, the strong verb paradigm of the German word, and such words as
      > > Geschichte), was a word of the same general shape as see/zien/sehen/se.
      > > In Dutch it seems to have acquired a "d" for no good reason at all. Or
      > > as Grimms Wörterbuch says "mit eingeschobenem d" (with intrusive d).
      > > There are a lot of NL words with variations with d and without (such as
      > > broeder/broer, neder/neer). Given that in a lot of NL words, they loose
      > > the medial -d-, perhaps the -d- in geschieden is an example of
      > > hyper-correctism.
      > >
      > > I have based FS magshej on a collection of similar constructions such as
      > > En maybe; Nl misschien; Da måske, kanske; No kanskje; Sv kanske,
      > > måhända, kanhända
      > >
      > > On 29/09/2010 22:45, chamavian wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Or maybe Dutch "misschien" = mag + schijn, then -sch- would make more
      > > > sense
      > > >
      > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender
      > > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > >Hi Rob and welcome
      > > > >
      > > > > Thanks :)
      > > > > Â
      > > > > >The mag part is related to En may/might, De mögen etc.
      > > > > Â
      > > > > That was the part I got :)
      > > > >
      > > > > >The shej part is related to Nl, schieden, De schehen, Da/No/Sv ske.
      > > > > >"sheje" means to happen.
      > > > > Â
      > > > > O now I see. In Dutch we have the word "misschien", which I always
      > > > interpreted as some weird mixed-up combination (possibly an early
      > > > loanword out of old high german) of "mag" (may) + "zijn" (to be). But
      > > > now it makes sense. "Magshej" is quite literally "misschien".
      > > > > Â
      > > > > The word looks like a yiddish meal though :)
      > > > > Â
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- On Wed, 9/29/10, David <parked@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > From: David <parked@>
      > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: introduction
      > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 3:53 AM
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Â
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi Rob and welcome
      > > > >
      > > > > The mag part is related to En may/might, De mögen etc.
      > > > > The shej part is related to Nl, schieden, De schehen, Da/No/Sv ske.
      > > > > "sheje" means to happen.
      > > > >
      > > > > So magshej of course means "maybe" or "possibly".
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender <robertpboender@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >Welkommen (torygg) Rob Ratatoskr !
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > Thanks!
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > >Men datt nam magshej "rat's tusk" ?
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > According to wikipedia, itÃ, is mostly assumed to
      > > > meanÃ, "drill-tooth" or "bore-tooth", although there are some
      > > > scholars who indeed explain it as "rat-tooth".Ã, It's the name from a
      > > > squirrel that run back and forth between the eagle on top of the World
      > > > Tree of the Norse religion, and the serpent at its roots.Ã, I'm not
      > > > sure whether it was part of the ancient Norse traditions or
      > > > aÃ, literary invention of Snorri Sturluson (the guy through which we
      > > > know most of the ancient saga's). Btw I don't use that handle (and
      > > > never much did - I think I thought it up for the occasion).
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > Din landmann
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > Actually I had guessed you were flemish (maybe you are - then
      > > > 'landman' should be interpreted slightly different then I guess).
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > It's a bit ironic I talk in English, as I assume english might be
      > > > the germanic language tht differs most from Folkspraak, at least
      > > > pronunciation-wise. Is my assumption correct?
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > Btw what's the 'etymology' for the Folkspraak-word "magshej" -
      > > > which can hardly mean anything other thanÃ, "maybe" ?Ã, The
      > > > "shej"-part puzzles me.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- On Tue, 9/28/10, chamavian <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
      > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: introduction
      > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 6:45 PM
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Welkommen (torygg) Rob Ratatoskr !
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Men datt nam magshej "rat's tusk" ?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Din landmann
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Ingmar / Chamavian
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob Boender <robertpboender@>
      > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Hello all,
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > I don't know if it's appropriate (and if not, I apologize right
      > > > away!) but I just signed up for this Yahoo group and I'd like to
      > > > introduce myself.
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > My name is Rob, native (speaker of) Dutch. I am interested in
      > > > language in general and the germanic languages in particular, although
      > > > this is only a (side) hobby and I am only fluent in English (and Dutch
      > > > of course). I can read and understand other germanic languagesÃ, to a
      > > > limited (and varying) degreeÃ, though.
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > I have quite a wide interest in things both cultural and
      > > > natural. I learned most things autodidactically, with all the
      > > > advantages and disadvantaged that come with that.
      > > > > > > Professionally I am a psychiatric nurse, a subject which is of
      > > > limited interest to me.
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > Enough about me. Let's talk about the Folkspraak project.
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > Is there any reading up you people advise? About the history of
      > > > the project, what has been established sofar etc.?
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > And is there a reference page for this discussiongroup with
      > > > rules, often used abbreviations etc. and of course used phonemes? I
      > > > found the one on Langmaker - do the phonemes you people use (like [x],
      > > > [G] etc. correspond to those listed there?
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > In general, is there some info on discussion lists? And would a
      > > > web forum not be more convenient? (I don't mean that as a criticism,
      > > > just curious why you people choose to use this format)
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > Btw I did participate a little bit in the Folkspraak project
      > > > over 10 years ago: I am 99.9% sure I am the "Rob Ratatoskr" referred
      > > > to on the Omniglot entry. Actually I had forgotten about it, and it
      > > > took a while before I realized I made the comment about the Dutch word
      > > > "spraak" when I accidentally found it on my websurfing way.
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > > Cheers to all of you!
      > > > > > > Rob
      > > > > > > Ã,Â
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
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      > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3163 - Release Date: 09/27/10 17:56:00
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