Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: New file uploaded to folkspraak

Expand Messages
  • chamavian
    ... Hopefully there are some other skilled volunteers to help us out here Everyone should realize that this could be finally the more or less definite version
    Message 1 of 755 , Aug 30, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David" <parked@...> wrote:
      >
      > Not by just a few clicks. That's a project for another weekend.

      Hopefully there are some other skilled volunteers to help us out here
      Everyone should realize that this could be finally the more or less definite version of Folksprak, for the first time in its existence!
      And with the Wordbok, everyone can look up FS words and use them.
      As so many people have asked where they can find that all the time, I expect that more members can be found now with renewed interest and energy in Folksprak, and some may be willing to contribute again...


      > In the meantime I would suggest that you use the FS-English dictionary and if you want to find an English word, do a search in the "English Translations" column.
      > eg if you want to find a FS word for "make", highlight the English translations column, type Ctrl-F to do a find, type "make" in the search box and click "find all"
      >
      > You will turn up (among others)
      > doe,
      > fabricere,
      > ferferdige,
      > forme,
      > kreere,
      > make,
      > shape
      >
      > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > >
      > > By the vay, do you have an English-Folkspraak version as well?
      > > I mean, only if you can just produce one by some simple clicks,
      > > I wouldn't let you work all night through again of course.
      > > If I were handy with computers I'd do it myself, but unfortunately I'm just a nerd in the useless sense...
      > >
      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have posted a new version of the dictionary on the Yahoo. Now with the
      > > > Ws restored. Don't let me catch you pronouncing them as [v]!
      > > >
      > > > chamavian wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > No, not only over, but also um, ut, under, in, an etc. can have the
      > > > > same two ways: seperable and non-seperable verbs:
      > > > >
      > > > > anbidde => wi anbidde worship
      > > > > an-byde => wi byde an offer
      > > > >
      > > > > umgeve => wi umgeve surround
      > > > > um-lede => wi lede um divert
      > > > > umfatte => wi umfatte contain, include
      > > > > um-bue => wi bue um covert
      > > > >
      > > > > underwise => wi underwise educate
      > > > > under-gae => wi gae under go under
      > > > > undertrykke, undersoeke, underhalde => same as underwise, non-sep.
      > > > >
      > > > > fullende => wi fullende fullfill, finish
      > > > > full-make => wi make full fill
      > > > >
      > > > > etc.
      > > > >
      > > > > So when we change the order of the seperable verb infinitives to the
      > > > > English way, you'll never have to think anymore how to do it again:
      > > > > byde an => hi byd an
      > > > > lede um => hi led um
      > > > > bue um => hi bu um
      > > > > gae under=> hi ga under
      > > > > make full=> hi mak full
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "David" <parked@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Just a quick 2 cents idea, since I'm too busy at work to follow this
      > > > > closely.
      > > > > > Separable verbs seem to be much more common than non-separable.
      > > > > > So if the non-separable verbs are the exception, then marking them
      > > > > might be more profitable.
      > > > > > Also it seems that it's mostly "over" that seems to have the issue
      > > > > -- it can be separable or not.
      > > > > > There are a number of non-separable prefixes such as be-. fer-, ge-,
      > > > > er-. Some of these are originally from independent words that have
      > > > > been reduced due to the unstressed position. eg be- was from same
      > > > > source as *b� (by/bij/bei), fer- is from same source as *fur
      > > > > (for/voor/vor/f�r).
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Maybe there is some way to contrive a special version of "over" to
      > > > > be used in non-separable verbs.
      > > > > > Eg as an independent, stand-alone preposition we have "over".
      > > > > > As a prefix in non-separable verbs, we have *yver or *oever or
      > > > > something.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "adam.skoog" <adam.skoog@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Both words have the same syntax. They are never split up.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Ok thanks, I was thinking of Dutch, of which I have the most
      > > > > knowledge of course...
      > > > > > > > But how do this kind of verbs go in Swedish, Danish, Norwegian etc.?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Something like:
      > > > > > > > �vergeva - jag gever �ver - jag skall geva �ver / skall �vergeva
      > > > > > > > �verleva - jag �verlever - jag skall �verleva ???
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "adam.skoog" <adam.skoog@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > The stress in the Northern Germanic counterparts of OVERLEVEND
      > > > > and OVERLEVER is not at the third syllable, no. It's initial.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Maybe for Folkspraak the English-like verbs work better
      > > > > too, so
      > > > > > > > > > > GEVE OVER instead of OVER-GEVE:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > GEVE OVER
      > > > > > > > > > > wi geve over
      > > > > > > > > > > wi wille geve over
      > > > > > > > > > > wi have geved over
      > > > > > > > > > > etc.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Because
      > > > > > > > > > > WI WILLE OVER-GEVE against WI WILLE OVERLEVE
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > may be too hard and complicated to learn for non-Germanic
      > > > > speakers, including English speakers.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > With an infinitive GEVE OVER it's easy to see that it will be
      > > > > > > > > > > WI GEVE OVER and WI WILLE GEVE OVER.
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > With an infinitive OVER-GEVE that is much more difficult,
      > > > > because it has to be compared with OVERLEVE, which has
      > > > > > > > > > > WI OVERLEVE and WI WILLE OVERLEVE
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > and many people will make the mistake to say
      > > > > > > > > > > WI OVER-GEVE instead of WI GEVE OVER
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > With adjectives/adverbs, FS could do it like English,
      > > > > which has
      > > > > > > > > > > adjectives an adverbs such as upgiving from the verb
      > > > > giving up,
      > > > > > > > > > > incoming from coming in, etc. Only in FS with a hyphen:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > EN OVER-GEVEND MANN ISS EN MANN DATT SHALL GEV OVER
      > > > > > > > > > > a surrendering man is a man that will surrender
      > > > > > > > > > > versus
      > > > > > > > > > > EN OVERLEVEND MANN ISS EN MANN DATT SHALL OVERLEVE
      > > > > > > > > > > a surviving man is a man that will survive
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > DE INN-KOMMEND POST ISS DE POST DATT KOMM INN
      > > > > > > > > > > The incoming mail is the mail that's coming in
      > > > > > > > > > > DE UT-GAEND POST ISS DE POST DATT SCHALL GA UT (FOR SENDE WEG)
      > > > > > > > > > > The outgoing mail is the mail that will go out (to send away)
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > etc.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > Also with nouns:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > EN OVER-GEVEND MANN ISS EN OVER-GEVER, EN MANN DATT GEV OVER
      > > > > > > > > > EN OVERLEVEND MANN ISS EN OVERLEVER, EN MANN DATT OVERLEV
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > The stress in OVER-GEVEND and OVER-GEVER will be on Over
      > > > > > > > > > The stress in OVERLEVEND and OVERLEVER is on LEvend/LEver
      > > > > > > > > > as in the living Germanic languages.
      > > > > > > > > > So the spelling with a hyphen is also easy here to point out
      > > > > the pronunciation, because when one reads OVER-GEVER one knows the stress
      > > > > > > > > > must be at the first syllable, but with OVERLEVER at LEVER
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > ["o:v@rge:v@nd] ["o:v@rge:v@r] �ver-gevend �vergever
      > > > > > > > > > [o:v@r"le:v@nd] [o:v@r"le:v@r] overl�vend overl�ver
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke <parked@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > Yes agreed. I've never given really enought thought to
      > > > > separable versus
      > > > > > > > > > > > non-separable verbs. But working which is which could be
      > > > > a mammoth task.
      > > > > > > > > > > > Especially when some languages might use a separable but
      > > > > others not. And
      > > > > > > > > > > > the English verbs don't even follow this way of working
      > > > > -- they are
      > > > > > > > > > > > often always separated even in infinitive or past
      > > > > participle forms. Eg
      > > > > > > > > > > > the English verb "give up", means something like FS
      > > > > overgeve. But it
      > > > > > > > > > > > declines something like:
      > > > > > > > > > > > I want to give up. I am giving up. I gave up. I have
      > > > > given up.
      > > > > > > > > > > > Whereas a German verb will be combined prep+verb in the
      > > > > infinitive, but
      > > > > > > > > > > > separate when it used in a finite way.
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > As far as hyphenation goes, you are opening up a whole
      > > > > can of worms
      > > > > > > > > > > > though. There are lots of compound nouns, verbs,
      > > > > adjectives etc, where
      > > > > > > > > > > > they would be much clearer if they where split by a
      > > > > hyphen or similar.
      > > > > > > > > > > > benzin is in the dictionary
      > > > > > > > > > > > stacion is in the dictionary
      > > > > > > > > > > > brennstoff is in the dictionary
      > > > > > > > > > > > pump is in the dictionary
      > > > > > > > > > > > arbede is in the dictionary
      > > > > > > > > > > > -er is in the dictionary
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > But *benzinstacionbrennstoffpumparbeder, may not be in
      > > > > the dictionary,
      > > > > > > > > > > > yet it is a word that is likely to be made up on the
      > > > > fly, when needed.
      > > > > > > > > > > > It would be easier for beginners to break the word into
      > > > > its component
      > > > > > > > > > > > parts if it's *benzin-stacion-brennstoff-pump-arbeder.
      > > > > Someone who
      > > > > > > > > > > > operates a fuel pump at a petrol station.
      > > > > > > > > > > > Also it makes it easier for a computer dictionary
      > > > > software to look up
      > > > > > > > > > > > the component words, even if it can't identify the
      > > > > entire compound word.
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > chamavian wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Compare the following verbs:
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Overdrage => wi drage over transfer
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Overdrive => wi overdrive exaggerate
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Overgeve => wi geve over surrender
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Overleve => wi overleve survive
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first and third examples, I propose to use a
      > > > > hyphen so
      > > > > > > > > > > > > one can tell that the verb will be split and the order
      > > > > changed
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > over-drage => wi drage over
      > > > > > > > > > > > > over-geve => wi geve over
      > > > > > > > > > > > > but
      > > > > > > > > > > > > overdrive => wi overdrive
      > > > > > > > > > > > > overleve => wi overleve
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, David Parke
      > > > > <parked@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > A lot of what you describe are my mistakes. It's big
      > > > > dictionary and it
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > took me a while to FSize. I was up most of the night.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most or all of the final c as [ts] should be gone.
      > > > > Either replaced with
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > -ce, if of Romance origin or -s.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > "c" is meant to be pronounced as [ts]. which is the
      > > > > only way to justify
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > keeping it, is to make it distinct from "s" in prono.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > But then all those -tion words have the same [ts]
      > > > > sound, so the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > spelling
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > has be merged. eg -tion [tsjo:n] becomes -cion.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > glecjer shouldn't be pronounced with as ["glEtS@r]
      > > > > but as ["glEtsj@r].
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I need to re-spell it as "glecier".
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jargon and Job(b) perhaps should be re-spelled as
      > > > > gjargon and gjobb. Or
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > re-pronounced as [jar"go:n] and [jOb]
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > My apologies that "gj" isn't the most attractive
      > > > > solution. "g" in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > originally French words is so often pronounced in an
      > > > > irregular way --
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > not [g] but [Z] or [dZ] or [S] depending on language.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the case in En, Nl. De. Da. Sv. I think
      > > > > Norwegian normally
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > re-spells them with "sj". Furthermore, they
      > > > > individual languages don't
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > always agree. eg for "regji" (direction), I think
      > > > > the majority would be
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > using a french-like prono of the "g". For others
      > > > > there may be no clear
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > majority.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reader of FS probably wants to know whether a
      > > > > "g" is meant to be
      > > > > > > > > > > > > [g]
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > or [Z], so some way of marking would be good.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJAL should be SHAL
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > SKOL has k because it's from a greek "sch" and not a
      > > > > Germanic *sk. Also
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > .In this proposed version, greek ch becomes k. Like
      > > > > scandinavian.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > German
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > *h becomes h
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've not in fact found many uses for "ae" except in
      > > > > French/Romance
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > borrowings. It appears mostly in words like
      > > > > "affaere", detael, retraet,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > universitaet.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where should it be used for Germanic words? I think
      > > > > I've only really
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > used it in ungenaim (enjoyable). The Frenkisch
      > > > > equivalent (ai) has a
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > clear role to play, because it represents the normal
      > > > > evolution from
      > > > > > > > > > > > > PG *ae.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > eg En thread = NL draad = De Draht = Scandy tr�d =
      > > > > Fk traid. But in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > UFS,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > PG *ae has become long a. eg trad (thread), sad
      > > > > (seed), strat (street)
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe "ae" could be for i-mutated *ae or something?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > For those for final "j" words -- there is a reason:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > You will note this language has practically no
      > > > > diphthongs. And in
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > hopefully every case where I have used a final "j",
      > > > > it represents a
      > > > > > > > > > > > > lost
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > consonant. Typically this is PG *hw, *j. or *w, or
      > > > > *h, when the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > consonant has been lost in the majority of the
      > > > > languages.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is the case for tejn, tej, tajr. Also majd,
      > > > > mejster (from Latin
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > magister).
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other dipthongs end in -u and are mostly final PG
      > > > > *u. eg seu (see),
      > > > > > > > > > > > > blau
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > (blue).
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ujel: there is no of-course about it, it's a bit
      > > > > unclear what form
      > > > > > > > > > > > > to take.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > "tiene" should maybe be "tyne" or "tjene". Not 100%
      > > > > sure here of form.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > is from PG *eu, which in UFS is normally y.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't agree 100% about words like *aktuael etc.
      > > > > There is frequently a
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > mixture among the source languages. Sometime the -al
      > > > > word is a noun and
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > the -ell word is adjective. But often there are
      > > > > cases where a very
      > > > > > > > > > > > > clear
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > majority are using -ell. -el. -eel and not -al.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > chamavian wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > David, I went through the Vordbok File and I must
      > > > > say: it looks
      > > > > > > > > > > > > pretty
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > okay to me. Except for a few minor things that I'd
      > > > > like to see
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > changed, and which I'll explain below.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And only one big thing:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vhen I came to the V part, vell, I actually didn't
      > > > > understand the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > meaning of many vords that vere vritten vith the
      > > > > nev spelling you
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vant: V instead of W vord-initially. Really hurts
      > > > > the eyes, you knov
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about the "luxury" C? As in Albrikoc, Absenc,
      > > > > Akcion, why not
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Albrikots, Absens, Aksion? Well, especially
      > > > > word-final -C which is
      > > > > > > > > > > > > not
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pronounced [k], seems too odd... Who will accept
      > > > > that MARC is
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pronounced [marts] instead of [mark]? MARTS or
      > > > > even MARS is just fine.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you have already TROTS with TS...
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And PITSH [pItS] with TSH, but GLECJER with CJ?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GJELATIN and VOLTAGJE with GJ [Z] but JARGON and
      > > > > JOB with J [Z]?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And why Ikk with double k to indicate vowel
      > > > > shortness, but In with a
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > single N? Or has In a long [i:]?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sege, segge, sagge, sage... You forgot SAEGE
      > > > > ["sE:g@] which would be
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the perfect intermediate form.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think AE could be used more often anyway, also
      > > > > in words with the
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suffix -AL/-ELL.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AKTUAEL instead of AKTUELL, and MATERIAEL instead
      > > > > of both MATERIELL
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and MATERIAL.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To have both -ELL and -AL is too difficult anyway,
      > > > > since in English
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's all -AL, and in the other languages not every
      > > > > -AL and -EL are
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > used the same.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SJAL with SJ instead of SH? Is there a difference
      > > > > in pronunciation
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with SHAL?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SKOL with SK instead of SHOL?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TEJN, TAJR etc why not TEIN, TAIR?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Btw TAJR/TAR can become TAER
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > UJEL should be UL of course
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is TIENE pronounced?
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When those things were changed, and maybe some
      > > > > more that I may find
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when I study the Wordbok more thoroughly, I would
      > > > > be prepared to use
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this as a beginning of a Standard for Folkspraak
      > > > > for the time being,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in other words: we would have our United
      > > > > Folkspraak, ready to use
      > > > > > > > > > > > > here...
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
      > > > > folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This email message is a notification to let you
      > > > > know that
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of
      > > > > the folkspraak
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > group.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > File : /Vordboken/Folksprak to english.html
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uploaded by : parked71 <parked@>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Description : Folksprak To English dictionary in
      > > > > HTML format. Using
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Experimental super-stripped down orthography. Uses
      > > > > no more letters
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > than strictly necessary. Gone are "luxuries" such
      > > > > as ck, qu, ph,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > th, ch.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can access this file at the URL:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/files/Vordboken/Folksprak%20to%20english.html
      > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group,
      > > > > please visit:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parked71 <parked@>
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3098 -
      > > > > Release Date:
      > > > > > > > > > > > > 08/27/10 18:34:00
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3099 -
      > > > > Release Date: 08/28/10 06:34:00
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > > Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3099 - Release Date: 08/28/10 06:34:00
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Andrew Jarrette
      Oh, I get it, bernstone = amber , and therefore relates to electricity (the original meaning of Greek _elektron_, and like Icelandic
      Message 755 of 755 , Dec 22, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        Oh, I get it, "bernstone" = "amber", and therefore relates to electricity (the original meaning of Greek _elektron_, and like Icelandic <rafmagn> "electricity", literally "amber-power"), so "bernstonebit" is an electron.  Is "bern-" from Middle English _bernen_ "to burn"? Or something else? [oh, actually I looked up "Bernstein" in Kluge and found that "Bern-" is from Low German _bernen_ "brennen" and "Bernstein" refers to "Brennbares Baumharz"]



        ________________________________
        From: Erik <ditassp2@...>
        To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:50:31 PM
        Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New file uploaded to folkspraak



        > This is hilarious!  I can actually understand much of it, and I must say I like it!  But what is a "bernstone"?

        Sounds like German "Bernstein", English "amber"(?)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber

        rgds, Erik

        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@...> wrote:
        >
        > This is hilarious!  I can actually understand much of it, and I must say I like it!  But what is a "bernstone"?
        >  
        > I'm still laughing and laughing.

        >
        > ________________________________
        >  From: chamavian <roerd096@...>
        > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 2:29:47 AM
        > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New file uploaded to folkspraak

        > And take a look at this text !
        >
        >
        > For most of its being, mankind did not know what things are made
        > of, but could only guess. With the growth of worldken, we began
        > to learn, and today we have a beholding of stuff and work that
        > watching bears out, both in the workstead and in daily life.
        >
        > The underlying kinds of stuff are the *firststuffs*, which link
        > together in sundry ways to give rise to the rest. Formerly we
        > knew of ninety-two firststuffs, from waterstuff, the lightest and
        > barest, to ymirstuff, the heaviest. Now we have made more, such
        > as aegirstuff and helstuff.
        >
        >
        >
        > The firststuffs have their being as motes called *unclefts*.
        > These are mightly small; one seedweight of waterstuff holds a
        > tale of them like unto two followed by twenty-two naughts. Most
        > unclefts link together to make what are called *bulkbits*. Thus,
        > the waterstuff bulkbit bestands of two waterstuff unclefts, the
        > sourstuff bulkbit of two sourstuff unclefts, and so on. (Some
        > kinds, such as sunstuff, keep alone; others, such as iron, cling
        > together in ices when in the fast standing; and there are yet
        > more yokeways.) When unlike clefts link in a bulkbit, they make
        > *bindings*. Thus, water is a binding of two waterstuff unclefts
        > with one sourstuff uncleft, while a bulkbit of one of the
        > forestuffs making up flesh may have a thousand thousand or more
        > unclefts of these two firststuffs together with coalstuff and
        >
        > chokestuff.
        >
        >
        >
        > At first is was thought that the uncleft was a hard thing that
        > could be split no further; hence the name. Now we know it is made
        > up of lesser motes. There is a heavy *kernel* with a forward
        > bernstonish lading, and around it one or more light motes with
        > backward ladings. The least uncleft is that of ordinary
        > waterstuff. Its kernel is a lone forwardladen mote called a
        > *firstbit*. Outside it is a backwardladen mote called a
        > *bernstonebit*. The firstbit has a heaviness about 1840-fold that
        > of the bernstonebit. Early worldken folk thought bernstonebits
        > swing around the kernel like the earth around the sun, but now we
        > understand they are more like waves or clouds.
        >
        >
        >
        > In all other unclefts are found other motes as well, about as
        > heavy as the firstbit but with no lading, known as *neitherbits*.
        >
        > We know a kind of waterstuff with one neitherbit in the kernel
        > along with the firstbit; another kind has two neitherbits. Both
        > kinds are seldom.
        >
        >
        >
        > The next greatest firststuff is sunstuff, which has two firstbits
        > and two bernstonebits. The everyday sort also has two neitherbits
        > in the kernel. If there are more or less, the uncleft will soon
        > break asunder. More about this later.
        >
        >
        >
        > The third firststuff is stonestuff, with three firstbits, three
        > bernstonebits, and its own share of neitherbits. And so it goes,
        > on through such everyday stuffs as coalstuff (six firstbits) or
        > iron (26) to ones more lately found. Ymirstuff (92) was the last
        > until men began to make some higher still.
        >
        >
        >
        > It is the bernstonebits that link, and so their tale fastsets how
        > a firststuff behaves and what kinds of bulkbits it can help make.
        > The worldken of this behaving, in all its manifold ways, is
        > called *minglingken*. Minglingers have found that as the
        > uncleftish tale of the firststuffs (that is, the tale of
        > firststuffs in their kernels) waxes, after a while they begin to
        > show ownships not unlike those of others that went before them.
        > So, for a showdeal, stonestuff (3), glasswortstuff (11),
        > potashstuff (19), redstuff (37), and bluegraystuff (55) can each
        > link with only one uncleft of waterstuff, while coalstuff (6),
        > flintstuff (14), germanstuff (22), tin (50), and lead (82) can
        > each link with four. This is readily seen when all are set forth
        > in what is called the *roundaround board of the firststuffs*.
        >
        > When an uncleft or a bulkbit wins one or more bernstonebits above
        > its own, it takes on a backward lading. When it loses one or
        > more, it takes on a forward lading. Such a mote is called a
        > *farer*, for that the drag between unlike ladings flits it. When
        > bernstonebits flit by themselves, it may be as a bolt of
        > lightning, a spark off some faststanding chunk, or the everyday
        >
        > flow of bernstoneness through wires.
        >
        >
        >
        > Coming back to the uncleft itself, the heavier it is, the more
        > neitherbits as well as firstbits in its kernel. Indeed, soon the
        > tale of neitherbits is the greater. Unclefts with the same tale
        > of firstbits but unlike tales of neitherbits are called
        > *samesteads*. Thus, everyday sourstuff has eight neitherbits with
        > its eight firstbits, but there are also kinds with five, six,
        > seven, nine, ten, and eleven neitherbits. A samestead is known by
        > the tale of both kernel motes, so that we have sourstuff-13,
        > sourstuff-14, and so on, with sourstuff-16 being by far the most
        > found. Having the same number of bernstonebits, the samesteads of
        > a firststuff behave almost alike minglingly. They do show some
        > unlikenesses, outstandingly among the heavier ones, and these can
        > be worked to sunder samesteads from each other.
        >
        >
        >
        > Most samesteads of every firststuff are unabiding. Their kernels
        > break up, each at its own speed. This speed is written as the
        > *half-life*, which is how long it takes half of any deal of the
        > samestead thus to shift itself. The doing is known as
        > *lightrotting*. It may happen fast or slowly, and in any of
        > sundry ways, offhanging on the makeup of the kernel. A kernel may
        > spit out two firstbits with two neitherbits, that is, a sunstuff
        > kernel, thus leaping two steads back in the roundaround board and
        > four weights back in heaviness. It may give off a bernstonebit
        > from a neitherbit, which thereby becomes a firstbit and thrusts
        > the uncleft one stead up in the board while keeping the same
        > weight. It may give off a *forwardbit*, which is a mote with the
        > same weight as a bernstonebit but a forward lading, and thereby
        > spring one stead down in the board while keeping the same weight.
        > Often, too, a mote is given off with neither lading nor
        > heaviness, called the *weeneitherbit*. In much lightrotting, a
        > mote of light with most short wavelength comes out as well.
        >
        >
        >
        > For although light oftenest behaves as a wave, it can be looked
        > on as a mote, the *lightbit*. We have already said by the way
        > that a mote of stuff can behave not only as a chunk, but as a
        > wave. Down among the unclefts, things do not happen in steady
        > flowings, but in leaps between bestandings that are forbidden.
        > The knowledge-hunt of this is called *lump beholding*.
        >
        >
        >
        > Nor are stuff and work unakin. Rather, they are groundwise the
        > same, and one can be shifted into the other. The kinship between
        > them is that work is like unto weight manifolded by the fourside
        > of the haste of light.
        >
        >
        >
        > By shooting motes into kernels, worldken folk have shifted
        > samesteads of one firststuff into samesteads of another. Thus did
        > they make ymirstuff into aegirstuff and helstuff, and they have
        > afterward gone beyond these. The heavier firststuffs are all
        > highly lightrottish and therefore are not found in the
        > greenworld.
        >
        >
        >
        > Some of the higher samesteads are *splitly*. That is, when a
        > neitherbit strikes the kernel of one, as for a showdeal
        > ymirstuff-235, it bursts into lesser kernels and free
        > neitherbits; the latter can then split more ymirstuff-235. When
        > this happens, weight shifts into work. It is not much of the
        > whole, but nevertheless it is awesome.
        >
        >
        >
        > With enough strength, lightweight unclefts can be made to
        > togethermelt. In the sun, through a row of strikings and
        > lightrottings, four unclefts of waterstuff in this wise become
        > one of sunstuff. Again some weight is lost as work, and again
        > this is greatly big when set beside the work gotten from a
        > minglingish doing such as fire.
        >
        >
        > Today we wield both kind of uncleftish doings in weapons, and
        > kernelish splitting gives us heat and bernstoneness. We hope to
        > do likewise with togethermelting, which would yield an unhemmed
        > wellspring of work for mankindish goodgain.
        >
        >
        > Soothly we live in mighty years!
        >
        > http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=90977
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Nice work, Andrew, looks neat.
        > >
        > > I've been 'fantasizing' about a more Germanic as well once and a while, but the outcome in my version wasn't as archaic as your Englisc
        > > in pronunciation and grammar, but more like present day English without the enormous load of Romance loanwords. And probably also less Old Norse in it. I think the grammar should maybe be a little more complicated than in modern English, e.g. verb conjugation, two genders/articles etc.
        > >
        > > Something like this:
        > >
        > > Folkspraak is being made up as a mean Germanish tongue (a "Twixgermanish", if thou willst). Once ready, Folkspraak should be quickly to learn by any born speaker of a Germanish tongue, a group telling over 465 million born speakers (with an onfilling 300 to 900 million speaking English as a twaid tongue). After many individual forshed Folksprak varieties for over ten years, since the end of 2010 there is a kind of Standard Folksprak, withleads are ony about. Until now there are already English to Folksprak and Folksprak to English wordbooks to get. Folkspraak is not meant to be made up by any one alone, but is a samely work shapen by all interested parties, following to the charter guidelines. Thou canst draw by a word to the tongue merely by sending an e-mail listing thy word, its meaning and its shape in three other Germanish tongues (in onfilling to English). Thou canst give feedback and help shape the tongue as well.
        > >
        > > Ingmar
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, folkspraak@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hello,
        > > >
        > > > This email message is a notification to let you know that
        > > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the folkspraak
        > > > group.
        > > >
        > > >   File        : /GRAMMAR OF ALTERNATE ENGLISC.docx
        > > >   Uploaded by : swartsaxon <anjarrette@>
        > > >   Description : Grammar of my alternate evolution of English (based on Anglian and West Saxon hybrid)
        > > >
        > > > You can access this file at the URL:
        > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/folkspraak/files/GRAMMAR%20OF%20ALTERNATE%20ENGLISC.docx
        > > >
        > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
        > > > http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
        > > > Regards,
        > > >
        > > > swartsaxon <anjarrette@>
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >




        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.