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Re: 400 Folkspraak roots, and a contribution... Zee

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  • William W Patterson
    ... Agreed! Personally, I like the look of umlauts and graves and acutes, but they re such a pain every time I bump into a new context. Have to figure out all
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 9, 1999
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      Je jaudo, 09 Dec 1999 11:52:51 -0800, vi skribis:

      > By all means stick with the 26 letter alphabet, since Folkspraak will be
      > used, if at all, on the internet first and foremost.

      Agreed! Personally, I like the look of umlauts and graves and acutes,
      but they're such a pain every time I bump into a new context. Have to
      figure out all over again how to make a new proggie display properly
      (assuming, of course, that it's possible). At the same time (to
      contradict myself, sorta), I've also always felt that if the sound is
      different, there's no good reason to recycle an existing letter by
      adding a decoration to it. New sound... new letter. Which, of course,
      wouldn't help things as they are in the real world today. Anyway,
      realistically, everybody can do ASCII and always will (if they know
      what's good for them; there's *tons* of legacy files in the world), so
      lowestcommondenominatorwise, we oughtta stick with it. (I often use
      the -e- for umlauts in German, and use the -h- for Esperanto, but I
      don't really like those solutions.)

      > ...I would hate to see a minority language, like
      > one of the Scandanavian languages, dominate and complicate the language in
      > the view of most Germanic native speakers. As admirable as the
      > Scandanavians are, they simply are not the majority.

      Agreed again. I haven't really looked at Northern Germanic languages very
      much yet, but one thing I've noticed is that when their words disagree
      with the Western Germanic, they often disagree greatly, whilst pretty much
      agreeing amongst themselves. For example (hey, my first contribution!)...

      Folkspraak: Zee
      Danish: Hav
      Dutch: Zee
      English: Sea
      German: Meer, See
      Norwegian: Hav
      Swedish: Hav

      What to do with a word like this? Within the North, no problem at all.
      Within the West, not much trouble. I think I'd pick Zee, even though
      (within the West) an initial S is more common, because this way the
      Folkspraak is the same as the Dutch *and* does not conflict with any
      other English or German word (Mental block: which -nym would that be?
      Spelled the same, but different meaning. (And it would be a homonym
      too: sea/see.)) (Almost... almost... I'd almost pick Meer, for the
      tie into Romance languages! But let's stay Germanic.)

      > I have often thought that a form of international English would be better
      > accepted. I just came back from France and Germany and English is wide
      > spread in both countries. Curiously, if there is a public sign in either
      > France or Germany which has a nonnative language on it, it is almost always
      > English to the exclusion of either French in Germany, or German in France.

      That's been running through my mind a bit too. I did a lot of international
      travel this year (year 2000 upgrades for a major client). I noticed that
      same thing about Germany, and Luxembourg too. And to a lesser extent, Latin
      America, and to a still lesser extent (but still true!) southeast Asia.
      There's a strong bias against English in the auxlang community, and I kind
      of shy away from it *because* it's my native language, but one thing I
      learned this year is that if you don't know the national language, English
      *is* usually going to do you more good than any other national language.

      - Ailanto



      --
      William W. Patterson http://www.neosplice.com/~ailanto
      mailto:ailanto@... http://members.xoom.com/ailanto

      All good solutions are simple, but not all simple solutions are good.
    • BriBri56@xxx.xxx
      If we use the English word for terms that haven t yet been coined into Folkspraak, maybe Folkspraakifying them, we could start spraakingFolkspraak quicklik.
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 9, 1999
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        If we use the English word for terms that haven't yet been coined into
        Folkspraak, maybe Folkspraakifying them, we could start spraakingFolkspraak
        quicklik.
      • Dan Dawes
        Hey, es wuld bi ein Beginnung. ... From: BriBri56@aol.com [mailto:BriBri56@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 7:12 PM To: folkspraak@onelist.com
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 9, 1999
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          Hey, es wuld bi ein Beginnung.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: BriBri56@... [mailto:BriBri56@...]
          Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 7:12 PM
          To: folkspraak@onelist.com
          Subject: Re: [folkspraak] 400 Folkspraak roots, and a contribution...
          Zee


          From: BriBri56@...

          If we use the English word for terms that haven't yet been coined into
          Folkspraak, maybe Folkspraakifying them, we could start spraakingFolkspraak
          quicklik.

          Folkspraak Discussion List, http://www.langmaker.com/folksprk.htm
        • Dan Dawes
          Samstag Nacht Post deutsched Englisch vor viel Jahren. Es werken da. Warum nicht hier auch? ... From: BriBri56@aol.com [mailto:BriBri56@aol.com] Sent:
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 9, 1999
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            Samstag Nacht Post deutsched Englisch vor viel Jahren. Es werken da. Warum
            nicht hier auch?

            -----Original Message-----
            From: BriBri56@... [mailto:BriBri56@...]
            Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 7:12 PM
            To: folkspraak@onelist.com
            Subject: Re: [folkspraak] 400 Folkspraak roots, and a contribution...
            Zee


            From: BriBri56@...

            If we use the English word for terms that haven't yet been coined into
            Folkspraak, maybe Folkspraakifying them, we could start spraakingFolkspraak
            quicklik.

            Folkspraak Discussion List, http://www.langmaker.com/folksprk.htm
          • BriBri56@xxx.xxx
            In a message dated 12/9/99 7:37:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, dawes@mdalaw.com ... Der Samstag Naht Post deutched Englisk? Bin eksamplens in der Veb?
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 9, 1999
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              In a message dated 12/9/99 7:37:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, dawes@...
              writes:

              > Samstag Nacht Post deutsched Englisch vor viel Jahren. Es werken da. Warum
              > nicht hier auch?

              Der Samstag Naht Post deutched Englisk? Bin eksamplens in der Veb?
            • Dan Dawes
              Samstag Nacht Post ist kaput, so der ist no examples an der Veb. But, wer bin reittin zu each uder in der Languich. Es war kind uf ein jok in der Magazin.
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 10, 1999
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                Samstag Nacht Post ist kaput, so der ist no examples an der Veb. But, wer
                bin reittin zu each uder in der Languich. Es war kind uf ein jok in der
                Magazin.

                While we are speaking of international English, imagine if we approximated
                English with the German-like vowels and consonants, one vowel group on
                syllable, no silent letters, no "th" and entirely phonetic. It would sound
                a little different when spoken, but it would be understandable.

                " Ar Fader, hu art in Hevan, hallod bie dei Nem. Giv us dis De, ar delie
                Bred, end forgiv us ar Dets az whie forgiv ar Dettors. Lied us nat intu
                Temptashun, but dilivar us from Ieval. For dein is da pawar, and da glorie
                forevar."

                -----Original Message-----
                From: BriBri56@... [mailto:BriBri56@...]
                Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 9:45 PM
                To: folkspraak@onelist.com
                Subject: Re: [folkspraak] 400 Folkspraak roots, and a contribution...
                Zee


                From: BriBri56@...

                In a message dated 12/9/99 7:37:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                dawes@...
                writes:

                > Samstag Nacht Post deutsched Englisch vor viel Jahren. Es werken da.
                Warum
                > nicht hier auch?

                Der Samstag Naht Post deutched Englisk? Bin eksamplens in der Veb?

                Folkspraak Discussion List, http://www.langmaker.com/folksprk.htm
              • TheJadeKnight@xxx.xxx
                In a message dated 12/9/1999 1:33:19 PM Pacific Standard Time, ailanto@neosplice.com writes:
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 10, 1999
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                  In a message dated 12/9/1999 1:33:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                  ailanto@... writes:

                  << Agreed! Personally, I like the look of umlauts and graves and acutes,
                  but they're such a pain every time I bump into a new context. Have to
                  figure out all over again how to make a new proggie display properly
                  (assuming, of course, that it's possible). At the same time (to
                  contradict myself, sorta), I've also always felt that if the sound is
                  different, there's no good reason to recycle an existing letter by
                  adding a decoration to it. New sound... new letter. Which, of course,
                  wouldn't help things as they are in the real world today. Anyway,
                  realistically, everybody can do ASCII and always will (if they know
                  what's good for them; there's *tons* of legacy files in the world), so
                  lowestcommondenominatorwise, we oughtta stick with it. (I often use
                  the -e- for umlauts in German, and use the -h- for Esperanto, but I
                  don't really like those solutions.) >>

                  I would prefer the ASCII letters . . . you see, I've got the ALT key
                  combinations for most of them memorized, and I look up the ones I don't. I
                  don't use programs. I also think they look better (at least in my opinion)
                  than most (but not all) double vowels.
                • TheJadeKnight@xxx.xxx
                  In a message dated 12/9/1999 7:37:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, dawes@mdalaw.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 10, 1999
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                    In a message dated 12/9/1999 7:37:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                    dawes@... writes:

                    << Samstag Nacht Post deutsched Englisch vor viel Jahren. Es werken da.
                    Warum
                    nicht hier auch? >>

                    Do we have a dictionary anywhere where the English speakers can look up words
                    they have no clue about (like most of 'em)?
                  • BriBri56@xxx.xxx
                    The most accessible set of on-line translating dictionaries is probably at Travlang.com. Also, bookmark Site O Joel - he s done a great job of collecting
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 11, 1999
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                      The most accessible set of on-line translating dictionaries is probably at
                      Travlang.com.

                      Also, bookmark Site O' Joel - he's done a great job of collecting translating
                      dictionaries at www.geocities.com/SoHo/8180/index.html.

                      If you want to type in or paste in a sentence or more in a foreign language,
                      then check out Babelfish's recommendations:

                      "Looking for Internet Translation Services?
                      These sites offer translation services:
                      Altavista site @ http://babelfish.altavista.com/
                      Systran Software @ http://www.systransoft.com
                      Infoseek @ http://translator.go.com
                      Dictionary.com @ http://www.dictionary.com/translate/ "

                      For about $30 you can get LanguageForce's "Standard Universal Translator"
                      CD-ROM software. It translates from English to any of 26 languages, and vice
                      versa. The databases for some languages are rather small, and it don't do no
                      grammar, but you can edit the word lists. I got it off an AOL banner ad, so I
                      can't tell you where else to hunt it down.
                    • Dan Dawes
                      This is really an Englishfied version of German, if the word does not trigger an English association, you could find it in a German dictionary. The real
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 13, 1999
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                        This is really an Englishfied version of German, if the word does not
                        trigger an English association, you could find it in a German dictionary.
                        The real Saturday Evening Post German was the opposite, a Germanified
                        version of English, i.e. really 100% English which was just twisted to make
                        it look as if it were German to English readers. Germans would have more of
                        a problem with Saturday Evening Post German.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: TheJadeKnight@... [mailto:TheJadeKnight@...]
                        Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 10:33 PM
                        To: folkspraak@onelist.com
                        Subject: Re: [folkspraak] 400 Folkspraak roots, and a contribution...
                        Zee


                        From: TheJadeKnight@...

                        In a message dated 12/9/1999 7:37:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                        dawes@... writes:

                        << Samstag Nacht Post deutsched Englisch vor viel Jahren. Es werken da.
                        Warum
                        nicht hier auch? >>

                        Do we have a dictionary anywhere where the English speakers can look up
                        words
                        they have no clue about (like most of 'em)?

                        Folkspraak Discussion List, http://www.langmaker.com/folksprk.htm
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