Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Here you can hear the Old Saxon language spoken (Heliand)

Expand Messages
  • parked71
    With all those [T] and [w] and [hw] sounds, it s more like my idea of the proto-typing spraek than my idea of Folksprak.. To a English speaker, it sounds
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 1, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      With all those [T] and [w] and [hw] sounds, it's more like my idea of the proto-typing spraek than my idea of Folksprak.. To a English speaker, it sounds vaguely like I should understand it. Are there texts to accompany the sounds?

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here you can hear the Old Saxon language spoken (Heliand)
      >
      > http://sagemaere.libsyn.com/index.php?post_category=Heliand
      >
      >
      > Doesn't it just look like Folkspraak?
      >
      >
      > Ingmar
      >
    • anjarrette
      ... Can I ask, David, what media player or other hardware did you use to hear the reading of Heliand? I can t play them on mine, it always gives me an error
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@...> wrote:
        >
        > With all those [T] and [w] and [hw] sounds, it's more like my idea of the proto-typing spraek than my idea of Folksprak.. To a English speaker, it sounds vaguely like I should understand it. Are there texts to accompany the sounds?
        >

        Can I ask, David, what media player or other hardware did you use to hear the reading of Heliand? I can't play them on mine, it always gives me an error message (something like "the file is broken"). I need to know what player hardware I must get (or how to be able to play it on my Windows Media Player).

        Andrew


        > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Here you can hear the Old Saxon language spoken (Heliand)
        > >
        > > http://sagemaere.libsyn.com/index.php?post_category=Heliand
        > >
        > >
        > > Doesn't it just look like Folkspraak?
        > >
        > >
        > > Ingmar
        > >
        >
      • parked71
        Don t remember. I listened to just the first one last night. It was either WinAmp or VLC because I don t often use Windows Media Play. It s actually possible
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 1, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Don't remember. I listened to just the first one last night. It was either WinAmp or VLC because I don't often use Windows Media Play. It's actually possible to put the lyrics text into MP3s in the meta-data. I'd like to check if that has been done for these. (if not, would be a good idea).

          --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "anjarrette" <anjarrette@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@> wrote:
          > >
          > > With all those [T] and [w] and [hw] sounds, it's more like my idea of the proto-typing spraek than my idea of Folksprak.. To a English speaker, it sounds vaguely like I should understand it. Are there texts to accompany the sounds?
          > >
          >
          > Can I ask, David, what media player or other hardware did you use to hear the reading of Heliand? I can't play them on mine, it always gives me an error message (something like "the file is broken"). I need to know what player hardware I must get (or how to be able to play it on my Windows Media Player).
          >
          > Andrew
          >
          >
          > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Here you can hear the Old Saxon language spoken (Heliand)
          > > >
          > > > http://sagemaere.libsyn.com/index.php?post_category=Heliand
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Doesn't it just look like Folkspraak?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Ingmar
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • anjarrette
          ... Thanks, I downloaded Winamp and finally was able to listen to Heliand (not to mention many other files that have been unsuccessful with Media Player). I
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 1, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@...> wrote:
            >
            > Don't remember. I listened to just the first one last night. It was either WinAmp or VLC because I don't often use Windows Media Play. It's actually possible to put the lyrics text into MP3s in the meta-data. I'd like to check if that has been done for these. (if not, would be a good idea).


            Thanks, I downloaded Winamp and finally was able to listen to Heliand (not to mention many other files that have been unsuccessful with Media Player). I don't know why you don't care for Old Saxon or at least this reading of Old Saxon, I think it's great. Or maybe I am misreading, you just thought it doesn't sound like what Folkspraak should sound like. Well, of course not, Old Saxon was a real language of a thousand years ago whereas Folkspraak is an artificial language of now. All those [hw]'s and [w]'s and [T]'s are merely historical fact, not aesthetic choices. Of course Folkspraak should sound different. I think Ingmar was saying it LOOKS like Folkspraak, i.e. the written texts, not the sound. The written texts are available online, just google Heliand.

            The only complaints I have with the reading are:

            a) His pronunciation of geminated consonants before glide -i- (e.g. in words like <seggian>, <hebbian>, <wrekkio>, etc.). He pronounces the glide -i- as a vowel preceded by a long consonant. I think that the natural pronunciation, and the one which caused gemination, is for the -i- to be entirely consonantal, and the preceding consonants to be lengthened before it, as though "seg-gyan", "heb-byan", "wrek-kyo". I say this because similar gemination happened before consonantal *l and *r in words such as <akkar>, inflected <akkros> ("ak-kros")(cf. Gothic <akrs>, OE <æcer>) and probably <appul>, although I don't know whether it lost its <u> in inflection (historically, it should have). A similar process of gemination occurred in Italian in words like <acqua> from *aqua, <sabbia> from *sabula (<sabulum), <doppio> from *duplus, etc. In these Italian words the <i> or <u> is pronounced consonantally, not as a vowel (i.e. they do not form a syllable), and the preceding consonant is long (delayed explosion). I am aware that sometimes the -i- is written -e- in OS, which does suggest a vocalic pronunciation, but I suspect that may be due to scribal inconsistency, derived from familiarity with Latin words spelt with -e- such as <cuneus> or <habeo> (but pronounced in Vulgar Latin with consonantal [j], later evidence shows), and not due to phonetic accuracy. I believe it was a consonantal, non-syllabic glide in OS, unlike what the reader produces.

            b) His pronunciation of final -g in Old Saxon: since Old Saxon always distinguishes it from final -h, unlike Old English, this suggests to me that it might have been a voiced sound, whereas -h was unvoiced. Or is it merely consistently written -g rather than phonetically as -h because the scribes were thinking of the inflected forms which had a voiced consonant? Or is it even possible that Old Saxon <g> was always a plosive??? I guess the latter is probably not possible. But is pronouncing final -g as [x] or [ç] truly correct? If it is correct, I think that it would have been pronounced always [x], the [ç] pronunciation is a much later recent German phenomenon (also Middle English). I believe Yiddish only has [x], not [ç], and of course Dutch only has [x] (and its voiced equivalent in Belgium, I understand).

            Andrew
            >
            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "anjarrette" <anjarrette@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > With all those [T] and [w] and [hw] sounds, it's more like my idea of the proto-typing spraek than my idea of Folksprak.. To a English speaker, it sounds vaguely like I should understand it. Are there texts to accompany the sounds?
            > > >
            > >
            > > Can I ask, David, what media player or other hardware did you use to hear the reading of Heliand? I can't play them on mine, it always gives me an error message (something like "the file is broken"). I need to know what player hardware I must get (or how to be able to play it on my Windows Media Player).
            > >
            > > Andrew
            > >
            > >
            > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Here you can hear the Old Saxon language spoken (Heliand)
            > > > >
            > > > > http://sagemaere.libsyn.com/index.php?post_category=Heliand
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Doesn't it just look like Folkspraak?
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Ingmar
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • chamavian
            ... http://artsci.wustl.edu/~bkessler/OS-Heliand/
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 3, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "parked71" <parked@...> wrote:
              >
              > With all those [T] and [w] and [hw] sounds, it's more like my idea of the proto-typing spraek than my idea of Folksprak.. To a English speaker, it sounds vaguely like I should understand it. Are there texts to accompany the sounds?



              http://artsci.wustl.edu/~bkessler/OS-Heliand/



              >
              > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Here you can hear the Old Saxon language spoken (Heliand)
              > >
              > > http://sagemaere.libsyn.com/index.php?post_category=Heliand
              > >
              > >
              > > Doesn't it just look like Folkspraak?
              > >
              > >
              > > Ingmar
              > >
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.