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Re: New Words

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  • chamavian
    hi you messed up the languages ;-) BOKHALDER n. = accountant, bookkeeper EN boekhouder, NL Buchhalter, DE bogholder, DA bokholder, NO bokh�llare, RU
    Message 1 of 115 , Jul 30, 2009
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      hi you messed up the languages ;-)

      BOKHALDER
      n. = accountant, bookkeeper
      EN boekhouder, NL Buchhalter, DE bogholder, DA bokholder, NO bokhållare, RU
      бухгалтер / buhgalter
      f. BOK + HALDE + -ER



      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
      >
      > TROFEE
      > n. = trophy
      > EN trophy, NL trofee, DE Trophäe, DA trofæ, NO trofé, SV trofé, FR trophée, RU трофей / trofej
      > f. Fr. trophée f. L trophaeum
      >
      >
      > SEGTEKEN
      > n. = trophy, victory sign
      > NL zegeteken, DE Siegeszeichen, DA sejrtegn, NO seiertegn, SV segertecken
      > f. SEG + TEKEN
      >
      >
      > BOKHALDER
      > n. = accountant, bookkeeper
      > EN boekhouder, NL Buchhalter, DE bogholder, DA bokholder, NO bokhållare, RU бухгалтер / buhgalter
      > f. BOK + HALDE + -ER
      >
      >
      > REVISOR
      > n. = auditor, accountant
      > EN revisor, NL revisor, DE Revisor, DA revisor, NO revisor, SV revisor, FR réviseur, RU ревизор / revizor
      >
      >
      >
      > ADMINISTRATOR
      > n. = administrator, manager, bookkeeper, accountant, director, trustee
      > EN administrator, NL administrateur, DE Administrator, DA administrator, SV administratör / administrator, FR administrateur, RU администратор / administrator
      > f. L. administrator
      >
      >
      > STRESS
      > n. = stress, pressure
      > EN stress, NL stress, DE Streß / Stress, DA stress, NO stress, SV stress, FR stress, RU стресс / stress
      > f. En. Stress
      >
      >
      > ARCHITEKT
      > n. = architect
      > EN architect, NL architect, DE Architekt, DA arkitekt, NO arkitekt, SV arkitekt, FR architecte, RU архитектор / arhitektor
      > f. L. architectus f. Gk arkhitekton
      >
      >
      > ARCHITEKTUR
      > n. = architecture
      > EN architecture, NL architectuur, DE Architektur, DA arkitektur, NO arkitektur, SV arkitektur, FR architecture, RU архитектура / arhitektura
      > f. L. architectura
      >
      >
      > ARCHITEKTONISCH
      > a. = architectonic, architectural
      > EN architectonic, NL architectonisch, DE architektonisch, DA arkitektonisk, NO arkitektonisk, SV arkitektonisk, FR architectonique
      > f. after L. architectonicus
      >
      >
      > INTERVIEW [Int@r"vju:]
      > n. = interview, meeting at which information is gathered by a reporter, press conference, meeting at which a person is evaluated through questioning (as for a job)
      > EN interview, NL interview, DE Interview, DA interview, NO intervju, SV intervju, FR entrevue, interview, RU интервью / interv'ju
      > f. Fr. entreveue (now entrevue)
      >
      >
      > KOMPLEKSITAET
      > n. = complexity, intricacy, complexness, involution
      > EN complexity, NL complexiteit, DE Komplexität, DA kompleksitet, NO kompleksitet, SV komplexitet, FR complexité
      > f. KOMPLEKS + -ITAET
      >
      >
      > WALROSS
      > n. = walrus, Odobenus rosmarus
      > EN walrus, NL walrus, DE Walross, DA hvalros, NO hvalross, SV valross
      > f. WAL + ROSS after Da hvalros
      >
      >
      > UNDERKOPP
      > n. = saucer
      > DE Untertasse, DA underkop, FR soucoupe, sous-tasse
      > f. UNDER + KOPP, self-explanitory compound / calque
      >
      >
      > SLYS
      > n. = sluice, lock, floodgate, penstock
      > EN sluice, NL sluis, DE Schleuse , DA sluse, NO sluse, SV sluss, FR écluse, RU шлюз / šljuz
      > f. O.Fr. escluse
      >
      >
      > KOFFER
      > n. = trunk, box, case, chest, portmanteau, coffer, suitcase, boot
      > EN coffer, NL koffer, DE Koffer, DA kuffert, NO kuffert, SV koffert, FR coffre
      > f. O.Fr. cofre
      >
      >
      > REPULSIV
      > n. = repulsive, disgusting, distasteful, driving away, tending to repel
      > EN repulsive, DE repulsiv, SV repulsiv, FR répulsif
      > f. Fr. Répulsif
      >
      >
      > APPETIT
      > n. = appetite, hunger, desire
      > EN appetite, NL appetijt, DE Appetit, DA appetit, NO appetitt, SV aptit, FR appétit, RU аппетит / appetit
      > f. L appetitus
      >
      >
      > APPETITLIK
      > a. = appetizing, appetising, delicious
      > NL appetijtelijk, DE appetitlich, DA appetitlig, NO appetittlig, SV aptitlig
      > f. APPETIT + -LIK
      >
      >
      > FUL
      > a. = foul, nasty, bad, putrid, rotten, filthy, vile, gross, dirty
      > EN foul, NL vuil, DE faul, NO full, SV ful
      > f. PG *fūlaz
      >
      >
      > SMUTTIG
      > a. = smutty, dirty, filthy, foul, grimy, nasty, soiled, unclean, grubby, impure, obscene, turbid
      > EN smutty, DE schmutzig, DA smudsig, SV smutsig
      > f. SMUTT + -IG
      >
      >
      > ETIOPIE
      > n. = Ethiopia
      > EN Ethiopia, NL Ethiopië, DE Äthiopien, DA Etiopien, NO Etiopia, SV Etiopien, FR Ethiopie, RU Эфиопия / Efiopija
      > f. L. Aethiops
      >
      >
      > SOT
      > n. = soot, grime
      > EN soot, DA sod, NO sot, SV sot, RU сажа / saža
      > f. PG *sōtam f. PIE *sodo-
      >
      >
      > ETIOPISCH
      > a. = Ethiopian
      > EN Ethiopic, NL Ethiopisch, DE äthiopisch, DA etiopisk, SV etiopisk, RU эфиопский / efiopskij
      > f. ETIOPIE + -ISCH
      >
      >
      > ORAKEL
      > n. = oracle
      > EN oracle, NL orakel, DE Orakel, DA orakel, SV orakel, FR oracle, RU оракул / orakul
      > f. IL oraculo
      >
      >
      > MYNT
      > n. = money, mint, coins, coin, specie, piece, currency, coinage
      > EN money, mint, NL munt, DE Münze, DA mønt, NO mynt, SV mynt, FR monnaie, RU монета / moneta
      > f. L. moneta
      >
      >
      > KONTROVERSE
      > n. = controversy, dispute, argument, disagreement, debate, disputation
      > EN controversy, NL controverse, DE Kontroverse, DA kontrovers, NO kontrovers, SV kontrovers, FR controverse
      > f. L. controversia
      >
      >
      > POLEMIK
      > n. = polemic, polemics, controversy, dispute, argument
      > EN polemic, polemics, NL polemiek, DE Polemik, DA polemik, SV polemik, FR polémique, RU полемика / polemika
      > f. med.L polemicus f. Gk polemikos
      >
      >
      > DISKUSSION
      > n. = discussion, debate, conversation, talk
      > EN discussion, NL discussie, DE Diskussion, DA diskussion, SV diskussion, FR discussion, RU дискуссия / diskussija
      > f. L discussio(n-)
      >
      >
      > WILD
      > a. = wild, savage, feral, fierce, untamed, violent, barbarian, ferocious, furious, rampant, tempestuous, truculent, unruly
      > EN wild, NL wild, DE wild, DA vild, NO vill, SV vild
      > f. PG *wilþijaz
      >
      >
      > ASPEKT
      > n. = aspect, facet, view, appearance, look, outlook, point of view, side, direction
      > EN aspect, NL aspect, DE Aspekt, DA aspekt, NO aspekt, SV aspekt, FR aspect, RU аспект / aspekt
      > f. L. aspectus
      >
      >
      > FACETT
      > n. = facet, side (i.e. of a situation), aspect, one of the cut and polished surfaces of a gemstone, bevel, sloped edge
      > EN facet, NL facet, DE Fassette / Facette, DA facet, NO fasett, SV fasett / facett, FR facette, RU фасетка / fasetka, фацет / facet
      > f. Fr. Facette
      >
      >
      > SIDE
      > n. = side, flank, hand, facet, quarter, wing, aspect, beam, edge, party
      > EN side, NL zijde, zij, DE Seite, DA side, NO side, SV sida
      > f. PG *sīðo, *sīðaz
      >
      >
      > RESPIT
      > n. = respite, grace, reprieve
      > EN respite, NL respijt, DA respit, SV respit, FR répit
      > f. OFr. Respit f. L respectus
      >
      >
      > UPPHALDE
      > v. = detain, delay, stop, hold up
      > EN hold up, uphold, NL ophouden, DE aufhalten, DA opholde, NO oppholde, SV uppehålla
      > f. UPP + HALDE
      >
    • chamavian
      Great, Jesper, thanks for your reaction! Let s hope it will be an inspiration as well for other members with native or near native knowledge of German, Danish,
      Message 115 of 115 , Nov 4, 2010
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        Great, Jesper, thanks for your reaction! Let's hope it will be an inspiration as well for other members with native or near native knowledge of German, Danish, Norwegian etc

        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, Jesper Engelbrektsson <jesper.engelbrektsson@...> wrote:
        >
        > Well, maybe I could contribute, then. Hello to you all! I joined a while
        > back but didn't know if actually could be of that much help. My name is
        > Jesper and I'm a native Swedish speaker, I live in Gothenburg since a few
        > years back but originally come from Uddevalla further up the coast. I'm very
        > interested in languages in general but the germanic languages in particular.
        > I've studied a little bit of Dutch and German in the past.
        >
        > Anyway, I guess the easiest thing to help out with is to tell you when a
        > certain word may be in the dictionary but not necessarily in active use in
        > the language people speak. For example the most common word for the noun
        > "mill" is not "mölla". Most people will probably never even have heard that
        > one. The standard word is "kvarn".
        >
        > Also, the Swedish for "feeling" is "känsla", although a fair few people will
        > probably passively know that in Norwegian it's "fölelse" (I use the ö
        > because it's on my keyboard). Helpfully though, the word "medkänsla" means
        > sympathy.
        >
        > (Lastly, the present tense of the verb "hålla" is "håller").
        >
        >
        > God natt!
        >
        >
        >
        > 2010/11/4 swartsaxon <anjarrette@...>
        >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > It is "medgefoel" not *midgefoel, we recently agreed to have "med"
        > > instead of * mid, *medd etc.
        > > >
        > > > Btw I was thinking that it would be very nice if we'd have some more
        > > German, Danish, Swedish language examples here.
        > > > Now Rob and I often give examples of Dutch words and their usage, but for
        > > this site, we should have at least someone who could do the same for German.
        > > And for Scandinavian as well.
        > >
        > > Ja, jag hållar med dig!
        > >
        > > Andreas (Andy)
        > >
        > >
        > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Yes, you're right, we should have many words to express the different
        > > shades of meaning of similar words. Keep <medgefoel> (or <midgefoel>: David
        > > will settle this) and something like <medliden> or <midliden>, and look at
        > > other possible formations too to express subtle differences of meaning
        > > and/or usage.
        > > > >
        > > > > Andy
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>, Rob
        > > Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Andy, you sure have a point, and 'medgefoel' seems broader but
        > > also less intense
        > > > > > than 'medliden'. As both words seem to be composites of roots that
        > > are already
        > > > > > FS words, it can be argued that both words are already valid FS
        > > words, near
        > > > > > synonyms with a slightly different meaning.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > There is no 'rule' for keeping the FS vocabulary limited, is there?
        > > That would
        > > > > > seem dubbleplus ungood to me ;)
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Â
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > From: swartsaxon <anjarrette@>
        > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 5:10:55 AM
        > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Â
        > > > > > Well, I thought it was obvious that I meant <-gefoel> in <medgefoel>
        > > was not
        > > > > > strong enough, as opposed to <-liden> in <*medliden> (medelijden), or
        > > maybe
        > > > > > <-rewen> in <*medrewen> (= *mederouwen, if that could have existed in
        > > Dutch).
        > > > > > "Together-feeling" or "together-emotion" does not sound as strong or
        > > as
        > > > > > compassionate as "together-suffering", or maybe "together-mourning"
        > > (<*medrewen>
        > > > > > as I suggested below). But if you all think it's appropriate and
        > > best, I'll
        > > > > > definitely go along with it.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > andy
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "chamavian" <roerd096@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > No, "gefoel" isn't strong enough, that means just emotion, feeling,
        > > but
        > > > > > >"medgefoel" is: "ikk willde ju anbyde min medgefoel gern" = I'd like
        > > to express
        > > > > > >(offer) my condolences/my compassion to you
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "swartsaxon" <anjarrette@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > Rob Boender <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I agree with the conclusion that "medgefoel" is quite an
        > > obvious word -ÂÂ
        > > > > > >which
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > seems an important Folkspraak criterium to me.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I just wonder whether <gefoel> = 'feeling' is a strong enough
        > > word to convey
        > > > > > >the emotion one feels at another's loss of a person they loved. I
        > > prefer
        > > > > > >medelijden's formation, as it is based on suffering, although the
        > > actual meaning
        > > > > > >in Dutch is not quite right for 'condolences' (medelijden = pity,
        > > compassion
        > > > > > >according to my dictionary). My Dutch-English dictionary says that
        > > Dutch also
        > > > > > >has <rouwbeklag> for 'condolences'. Maybe something based on the
        > > Folksprak word
        > > > > > >for 'mourn', such as *middruren (if *druren = German <trauern>; or
        > > possibly
        > > > > > >*midrewen with *rewen = Dutch <rouwen> from Germanic *hrewwan
        > > (English <rue>)).
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > FS "Lunt" does sound like "lont" to me, which I would not
        > > immediately
        > > > > > >associate
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > with a match... In Dutch, a 'lont' is the string attached to a
        > > fire cracker
        > > > > > >or a
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > dynamite stave, that is lit up to explode the thing. So, it
        > > comes close but
        > > > > > >it
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > is not the same thing. Of course, my gut feeling should not at
        > > all
        > > > > > >influence a
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > decision; I'm just saying what I would think of, as an
        > > average native
        > > > > > >speaker of
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Dutch.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Yes, I don't think a word based on Dutch <lont> and German
        > > <Lunte> is right
        > > > > > >for 'match'. I think a formation similar to Swedish
        > > <t�ndsticka> is better.
        > > > > > >Note Swedish <sticka> = splinter, peg, little stick.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I must admit I don't exaclty know what a "fuse" is, though I
        > > guess it's
        > > > > > >part of
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > an engine or electronic apparatus. @ Chamavian: is a "fuse" a
        > > "zekering"?
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > <Fuse>: a) a wick (piece of string, sometimes immersed in a
        > > combustible
        > > > > > >liquid) or tube filled with combustible material, attached to an
        > > explosive,
        > > > > > >which is lit at one end, then burns quickly down the length of the
        > > string or
        > > > > > >tube until it hits the explosive and sets it off, causing an
        > > explosion. Thus
        > > > > > >partly the same as Dutch <lont>.
        > > > > > > > b) a safety device placed in an electrical circuit consisting of
        > > a repaceable
        > > > > > >plug or tube containing wire or metal that will melt and break the
        > > circuit if
        > > > > > >the current exeeds a specified amperage. Thus = Dutch <zekering>,
        > > <stop>.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > And I don't know the meaning of "wick"... Babelfish
        > > translates it intio
        > > > > > >Dutch as
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > "wiek", which is either one of the four arms of a windmill, or
        > > part of a
        > > > > > >bird's
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > wing... But in the context of fire I think of the cinematic
        > > "The
        > > > > > >Wickerman"...
        > > > > > > > > ÂÂ
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > <Wick>: a piece of string running through and out of a candle,
        > > used to light
        > > > > > >the candle and on which the flame burns, drawing up the wax for
        > > combustion; also
        > > > > > >a similar piece of tightly woven cloth immersed in the oil of a
        > > lantern, used to
        > > > > > >draw up the oil, and then lit so that a flame burns at the top of
        > > the wick and
        > > > > > >oil continues to be drawn up the wick to feed the flame. Thus =
        > > Dutch <pit>,
        > > > > > ><kousje>, <katoen>. My dictionary also gives <wiek> as the first
        > > translation of
        > > > > > ><wick> but then translates <wiek> as "sail, vane; wing", so clearly
        > > dictionaries
        > > > > > >can't always be trusted.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Andy
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
        > > > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, October 31, 2010 1:02:19 PM
        > > > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Well, as we can see from the discussion between Rob and me,
        > > > > > > > > "me(d)egevoel" may be in the Dutch dictionary, but we never use
        > > it and one
        > > > > > >of us
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > even didn't know the word existed at all. Maybe it is just a
        > > translation of
        > > > > > >the
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > German word, but because Dutch already has "medelijden" and
        > > "medeleven", it
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > never got into real use.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > That means it's quite obscure, isn't it?
        > > > > > > > > So not every word that is found in the Dutch dictionary is used
        > > in real
        > > > > > > > > language. I bet that goes for the other languages as well.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > But I'm not against a FS "medgefoel", because it's a pretty
        > > self obvious
        > > > > > >word,
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > more so than "medlid" or "medleven" orso.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > David Parke <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I've found "medegevoel" in several dictionaries.
        > > > > > > > > > It's a similar construction to DE MitgefÃÆ'¼hl and DA/NO
        > > medfÃÆ'¸lelse. I
        > > > > > > > > > would have thought it makes a valid FS word -- unless it
        > > really is
        > > > > > > > > > obscure in one or more languages.
        > > > > > > > > > So i'd propose FS medgefoel.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > For a match stick, I'd proposed "lunt" -- based in NL lont,
        > > DE Lunte,
        > > > > > > > > > DA/NO lunte. Scots English also has "lunt"
        > > > > > > > > > This word might also mean a fuse or wick.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > On 30/10/2010 07:45, chamavian wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
        > > Rob Boender
        > > > > > > > > > > <robertpboender@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >"Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy
        > > expression used
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > by social
        > > > > > > > > > > > >workers or gurus...
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > :lol: Prolly gurus only. I'm kind ofÃÆ'‚ a social worker
        > > (psych. nurse)
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > and I've
        > > > > > > > > > > > never used that word, nor seen/heard it being used by
        > > others. Looks
        > > > > > > > > > > like a
        > > > > > > > > > > > neologism to me.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I myself work as a social worker as well, I'm a
        > > professional guardian
        > > > > > > > > > > or "youth protection worker" for minors who have no parents
        > > or who
        > > > > > > > > > > can't stay with them according to the judge... My elder
        > > sister is a
        > > > > > > > > > > psychiatrical nurse just like you. She used to live and
        > > work in The
        > > > > > > > > > > Hague, Leidschendam etc., do I remember correctly that you
        > > live there?
        > > > > > > > > > > but she moved back to the East years ago.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't use "meegevoel" myself either, but I think the
        > > best way to
        > > > > > > > > > > pronounce it would be with a Brabantish or Limburgish
        > > accent, with a
        > > > > > > > > > > very long monophthong EE, a "soft G", an unvoiced V and a
        > > thin L
        > > > > > > > > > > ["me::G'@vul] ;-) vs Standard Dutch ["meIx@v'uL]
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I must admit I can easily imagine some of the 'group
        > > therapy
        > > > > > > > > > > pluggers' using it,
        > > > > > > > > > > > though.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > > > > > From: chamavian <roerd096@>
        > > > > > > > > > > > To: folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:
        > > folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com <folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>
        > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 5:33:27 PM
        > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [folkspraak] Re: New Words
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
        > > David Parke <parked@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28/10/2010 10:57, swartsaxon wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > A better arrangement of my last posting:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com>
        > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>
        > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:folkspraak%40yahoogroups.com<folkspraak%2540yahoogroups.com>>,
        > > David Parke <parked@>
        > > > > > >wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > av ond to (adv) sounds like "to and fro"?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fram tid to tid (adv) = "from time to time"?
        > > What about
        > > > > > > > > > > fan/af
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > = from?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is one area that I am unsure of how to do in
        > >
        > > > > > > > > > > Folkspraak. We have
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certain meanings that we might want to
        > > distinguish with
        > > > > > > > > > > different
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > words.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. from as in the original location of something.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. of as in a possessed by or belonging to
        > > something or
        > > > > > >someone.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. by as in by means of, or caused by.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > German uses "aus" and "her" for 1. Maybe even
        > > "von". It uses
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > "von"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. It also uses "durch" for 3.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > English uses 1. from, 2. of, 3 by. English "from"
        > > is
        > > > > > > > > > > unrelated to DE
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > von. EN of and off is related to DE ab. off and
        > > ab can have
        > > > > > > > > > > similar
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > usages but of and ab do not.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW,"nu ond dann", "av ond to" and "av/fram tid
        > > to tid" are
        > > > > > >all
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > phrases
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that I think mean "sometimes" or "occasionally"
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So will Folksprak have av, fon, fram, and ut? av =
        > > off, fon =
        > > > > > >of,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > fram = from, ut = out of? "By = by means of" perhaps
        > > turj (or
        > > > > > > > > > > mid for
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > vehicles, like German); = caused by perhaps fram or
        > > fon (cf.
        > > > > > >German
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > von, Dutch van in this use; Swedish av, I believe).
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > kondolence (n) = condolence(s); perhaps midlid(en) or
        > > bilid(en)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > better, cf. German Beileid
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I think somethiing on the lines of medgefoel. med +
        > > gefoel. M
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > In Dutch, "gecondoleerd" or "condoleances" is the usual
        > > formula
        > > > > > > > > > > expressed when
        > > > > > > > > > > > someone died meaning "sorry for your loss". Or when a
        > > football club
        > > > > > > > > > > lost a
        > > > > > > > > > > > match, supporters of the winning club will say that to
        > > the losers.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Met oprechte deelneming" is the expression used on post
        > > cards one
        > > > > > > > > > > sends to the
        > > > > > > > > > > > relatives of the deceased.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Medeleven" or, more often used "medelijden" means
        > > "compassion".
        > > > > > > > > > > > "Meegevoel" also exists, but that's a kind of softy
        > > expression used
        > > > > > > > > > > by social
        > > > > > > > > > > > workers or gurus...
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > For FS I think "kondoleances" to express condolences, and
        > > "medlid"
        > > > > > > > > > > > for "compassion" will do.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > innen (adv) = within, inside
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > folkenmord (n) = genocide
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > genocid (n) = genocide. I don't see why we
        > > need two
        > > > > > > > > > > words for
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same thing.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see what's wrong with 2 words for the same
        > > thing. For one
        > > > > > > > > > > thing
        > > > > > > > > > > > > having synonyms is of great help in improving style
        > > literature and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > enabling rhymes in poetry. Not sure who will want to
        > > write poems
        > > > > > > > > > > about
        > > > > > > > > > > > > genocide though.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > In Dutch we have both Volkerenmoord and Genocide.
        > > > > > > > > > > > Genocide is used more often: de Ruandese genocide, de
        > > Armeense
        > > > > > > > > > > genocide, de
        > > > > > > > > > > > genocide op de Bosnische moslims etc. but Volkerenmoord
        > > has a
        > > > > > > > > > > stronger, more
        > > > > > > > > > > > emotional connotation, and it's also more old-fashioned
        > > and used
        > > > > > > > > > > sometimes to
        > > > > > > > > > > > explain what the word Genocide means.
        > > > > > > > > > > > FS could have both words as well: "genocide" and
        > > "folkenmord".
        > > > > > > > > > > > Btw I think there are quite a lot of poems written about
        > > the
        > > > > > > > > > > genocide on the
        > > > > > > > > > > > Jews in WWII, and other genocides.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tofridenstellend (a) = German
        > > zufriedenstellend
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'satisfactory'. I don't like using a calque of the
        > > German
        > > > > > because
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > <tofriden> suggests to me putting someone at peace,
        > > pacifying or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > assuaging, rather than satisfying. I would suggest
        > > using a
        > > > > > > > > > > derivative
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > of genog, perhaps *fergnogen (unless that means
        > > "suffice") or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > *begnogen or *ergnogen or similar.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my FS vocabulary already has "tofridenstelle" as a
        > > verb.
        > > > > > > > > > > (appease,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > please, provide gratification, satisfy, suffice). So it
        > > follows
        > > > > > > > > > > that the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > present participle would make a word for satisfactory.
        > > And such
        > > > > > > > > > > > > constructions are used in NL tevredenstellend; DE
        > > > > > > > > > > zufriedenstellend; DA
        > > > > > > > > > > > > tilfredsstillende; NO tilfredsstillende; SV
        > > tillfredsstÃÆ'�'¤llande
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ferwajte (v) = Dutch verwachten 'to expect'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > In my FS I have "wajte" which is one of the few actual
        > > > > > > > > > > "crosswords" in
        > > > > > > > > > > > > the Ingmar Roerdinkholder usage. That is, it's made up
        > > of a mix of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > similar-looking words that are mostly unrelated
        > > etymologically.
        > > > > > >It's
        > > > > > > > > > > > > based on EN wait, NL wachten, DE warten, DA/NO vente,
        > > SV vÃÆ'�'¤nta.
        > > > > > >I
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > don't
        > > > > > > > > > > > > like crosswords because they ignore genuine
        > > etymological
        > > > > > > > > > > relationships
        > > > > > > > > > > > > such as DE warten is related to EN ward and guard.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > But anyway, I've got wajte because I really can't find
        > > much else
        > > > > > > > > > > better
        > > > > > > > > > > > > as a FS word for "wait".
        > > > > > > > > > > > > But in the continental Germlangs, it seems to be a
        > > common
        > > > > > > > > > > construction
        > > > > > > > > > > > > for a ver/for-/er- type of prefix to be added to the
        > > word for
        > > > > > > > > > > "wait" to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > make a word for "expect" or "anticipate". I would
        > > strongly suspect
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > that
        > > > > > > > > > > > > these constructions are calques of one and other.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > So FS ferwajte is fer- + wajte. Based on NL verwachten;
        > > DE
        > > > > > > > > > > erwarten; DA
        > > > > > > > > > > > > forvente; NO forvente; SV fÃÆ'�'¶rvÃÆ'�'¤nta
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah... those crosswords. Btw is English "wait" the same
        > > as Dutch
        > > > > > > > > > > "wachten"? One
        > > > > > > > > > > > would expect a more etymological spelling like "weight",
        > > but then
        > > > > > > > > > > again, one can
        > > > > > > > > > > > never rely on English orthography of course.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > It's kind of the same exception as "majd" instead of
        > > "*magd"
        > > > > > > > > > > > But as far as I'm concerned, FS "wahte", "ferwahte" would
        > > be OK as
        > > > > > > > > > > well in this
        > > > > > > > > > > > case.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > transvestit (n) - self-explanatory
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > transsexuelle (n) - self-explanatory
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kure (v) = Dutch keuren 'test, sample, taste,
        > > inspect,
        > > > > > > > > > > etc.';
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > or = German kÃÆ'�'¼ren 'choose, elect'? Possibly
        > > either 'test,
        > > > > > > > > > > sample, try
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > out' or 'elect'.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > FS's simple and conservative vowel phonology doesn't
        > > allow the
        > > > > > > > > > > diphthong
        > > > > > > > > > > > > that this has evolved into in German and English. But
        > > this word is
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > based
        > > > > > > > > > > > > on EN cower, DE kauern and SV kura. All originally from
        > > Middle Low
        > > > > > > > > > > > > German kÃÆ'�'»ren. The meaning should be something
        > > like "crouch" or
        > > > > > > > > > > "cringe".
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > garantere (v) = to guarantee
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > myler / mylener (n) = miller
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > It's from the word for "mill" and looking at the source
        > > languages,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > it's
        > > > > > > > > > > > > not obvious if there is a big majority one way or
        > > another if the
        > > > > > >word
        > > > > > > > > > > > > should end in -n. The Latin source "molinum" did end in
        > > -en.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cf EN miller; NL molenaar; DE MÃÆ'�'¼ller; DA/NO
        > > mÃÆ'�'¸ller; SV
        > > > > > > > > > > mjÃÆ'�'¶lnare; FR meunier
        > > > > > > > > > > > > cf EN mill; NL molen; DE MÃÆ'�'¼hle; DA/NO
        > > mÃÆ'�'¸lle; SV mÃÆ'�'¶lla; FR
        > > > > > >moulin
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Another interesting thing. Some etymologists consider
        > > that the
        > > > > > > > > > > Germanic
        > > > > > > > > > > > > -er ending, the agent suffix, may be a Latin borrowing,
        > > from L.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > -arius.And the Dutch -aar ending and SV -are ending
        > > look more this
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > way.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch does not have -er after other syllables with schwa
        > > such as
        > > > > > > > > > > -en, -el, in
        > > > > > > > > > > > that case it's -aar: -enaar, -elaar
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Molenaar (miller), gijzelaar (hostage), pleisteraar
        > > (plasterer)
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes after -n: winnaar, minnaar, but: beginner
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kancel (n) = German Kanzel 'pulpit; cockpit;
        > > turret' - I
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest choose one of those meanings, probably the
        > > > > > > > > > > etymologically most
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > correct one; are we still using <c> for /ts/?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > It would perhaps have several meanings and derives from
        > > Latin
        > > > > > > > > > > cancelli.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > It's also a necessary root for word such as "kanceller"
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hymne (n) = hymn
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > psalm (n) = psalm
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lovgesang (n) = German Lobgesang 'hymn, song
        > > of praise,
        > > > > > > > > > > eulogy'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > geologi (n) = geology
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instyrting (n) = German Einsturz (<
        > > einstÃÆ'�'¼rzen)
        > > > > > >'collapse,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > fall-in'?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > krah (n) = German Krach 'crack, crash' (the
        > > sound); note
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > German Absturz '(airplane) crash' as well as 'fall,
        > > plunge';
        > > > > > > > > > > abstÃÆ'�'¼rzen
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'fall, plunge' as well as 'crash' of airplanes.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > This is possibly an onomatopoeic word. But there are
        > > lots of words
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > > > > > this for a crash or crack in the source languages.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > eg EN crash; NL krach; DE Krach; DA krak; NO krakk; FR
        > > krach; RU
        > > > > > > > > > > ???? / krah
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually onomatopoeia is one area where I like
        > > "crosswords". In
        > > > > > >such
        > > > > > > > > > > > > situations you have lots of similar words of often
        > > uncertain
        > > > > > > > > > > etymology.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > And they are similar because they are imitating the
        > > same sound,
        > > > > > > > > > > rather
        > > > > > > > > > > > > than because they evolved from a common source.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tandpin (n) = toothpeg??
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope the i in pin is long. Try tooth pain!
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kaotish (a) = chaotic; how about maybe
        > > > > > > > > > > wirrish/werrish/warrish
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > or ferwirrend or similar
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I have "ferwerre" meaning "unnerve, confuse, unsettle".
        > > So
        > > > > > >ferwerrend
        > > > > > > > > > > > > might or might not mean precisely the same as kaotish.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have "unordening" =disorder, mess, chaos. So
        > > something like
        > > > > > > > > > > > > *unordeningsfull or *unordeningslik would have a
        > > similar meaning
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strukturell (a) = structural; how about bulik
        > > or gebulik
        > > > > > >or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > neurolog (n) = Dutch neuroloog 'neurologist';
        > > how about
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > *nervkenner or similar 'nerve-expert' or
        > > *nervwitenshapman or
        > > > > > > > > > > something
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > antaste (v) = German antasten 'touch; attack
        > > (probably
        > > > > > > > > > > e.g. of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > diseases etc.)'; Dutch aantasten 'affect, harm;
        > > attack'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > molestere (v) = Dutch molesteren 'molest' (in
        > > non-sexual
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > senses or no?) Are we keeping -eren- as the
        > > infinitive ending of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > romance roots?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hitsig (a) = German hitzig 'hot; heated,
        > > fierce
        > > > > > >(argument,
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.)'. But shouldn't this be *hittig, after *hitt(e)
        > > 'heat'
        > > > > > like
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch hitte? I think Dutch hitsig is merely a direct
        > > borrowing
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > German hitzig.
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Dutch "hitsig" mean horny, especially for women ;-)
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes is unclear of the best way to do this. A schematic
        > > approach
        > > > > > > > > > > would be
        > > > > > > > > > > > > to make a calque/loan translation. -- take the word for
        > > "heat" and
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > add
        > > > > > > > > > > > > -ig. The naturalistic approach would be to treat it
        > > like FS was
        > > > > > > > > > > just one
        > > > > > > > > > > > > of the many languages that have borrowed from German
        > > hitzig.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brennend (a) = burning; ardent, fervent?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > offering (n) = offering (Dutch has offer in
        > > this sense)
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > FS isn't just a relexification of English and it's
        > > cognates won't
        > > > > > > > > > > always
        > > > > > > > > > > > > carry the exact sense as English words (or German
        > > cognates, or
        > > > > > >Dutch
        > > > > > > > > > > > > etc) It seems to be quite a common construction, after
        > > the form
        > > > > > > > > > > for the
        > > > > > > > > > > > > French offrande, to have a word meaning sacrifice, of a
        > > similar
        > > > > > > > > > > for to
        > > > > > > > > > > > > this. eg
        > > > > > > > > > > > > En offering; Nl offering, offerande; De Opferung; Da
        > > ofring; SV
        > > > > > > > > > > > > offrande; Fr offrande
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > offerte (n) = Dutch offerte '(monetary)offer,
        > > tender,
        > > > > > > > > > > quotation'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > This would be more like an English offer. -- not a
        > > sacrifice, but
        > > > > > > > > > > a bid
        > > > > > > > > > > > > or tender or quotation.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anbod (n) = Dutch aanbod 'offer; supply'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > illuminar (v) = illuminate? Shouldn't this be
        > > *erlyhte
        > > > > > or
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > similar, like German erleuchten? Unless 'illuminate'
        > > a book with
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > pictures?
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I got the proposed form wrong -- this is the
        > > Interlingua
        > > > > > >word.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > should be *illuminere.
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > civil (a) = German zivil, Dutch civiel,
        > > English
        > > > > > > > > > > civil(ian). I
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > think this should only = English civilian; for
        > > English civil
        > > > > > >there
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be a word derived from 'citizen' (like German
        > > > > > > > > > > bÃÆ'�'¼rgerlich), and
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > another word meaning 'polite'
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3221 -
        > > Release Date:
        > > > > > > > > > > 10/26/10
        > > > > > > > > > > > >18:34:00
        > > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > > > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3225 - Release
        > > Date:
        > > > > > >10/28/10
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >18:34:00
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
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        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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