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Folk songs

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  • Thomas
    Tach ok! Is here ne1 interested in some folk songs recorded in the former GDR? They are sung in Meckelnbörger Platt , an almost dead language. I personally
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 3, 1999
      Tach ok!
      Is here ne1 interested in some folk songs recorded in the former GDR? They are
      sung in "Meckelnb�rger Platt", an almost dead language. I personally don't speak
      this language, neither do I know ne1 who does.

      Dat wars ok schon.
      Tsch��
      Thomas
    • 'Elle Müller'
      ... GDR? ... Thomas, I realise this message you wrote was in 1999, but I don t see them anywhere on the list. I do not know whether or not you still have these
      Message 2 of 8 , May 27 5:32 PM
        --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <sloyment@... wrote:
        >
        > Tach ok!
        > Is here ne1 interested in some folk songs recorded in the former
        GDR?
        > They are sung in "Meckelnbörger Platt", an almost dead language.
        > I personally don't speak this language, neither do I know ne1 who
        > does.
        >
        > Dat wars ok schon.
        > Tschüß
        > Thomas

        Thomas, I realise this message you wrote was in 1999, but I don't see
        them anywhere on the list. I do not know whether or not you still
        have these things, but I am VERY interested. I 'snack' a form
        of 'platt' (in addition to my funny Hochd.), and am a Platt
        enthusiast. I versammele everything of a Platt nature, and analyse it
        to death... then I tuck it in beside me in bed, and let it whisper
        sweet things in my ears at night. :)

        Alles gute,
        -Elle
      • Andrew Jarrette
        ... GDR? ... Thomas, I realise this message you wrote was in 1999, but I don t see them anywhere on the list. I do not know whether or not you still have these
        Message 3 of 8 , May 27 6:08 PM
          'Elle Müller' <ellemueller_de@...> wrote: --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <sloyment@... wrote:
          >
          > Tach ok!
          > Is here ne1 interested in some folk songs recorded in the former
          GDR?
          > They are sung in "Meckelnbörger Platt", an almost dead language.
          > I personally don't speak this language, neither do I know ne1 who
          > does.
          >
          > Dat wars ok schon.
          > Tschüß
          > Thomas

          Thomas, I realise this message you wrote was in 1999, but I don't see
          them anywhere on the list. I do not know whether or not you still
          have these things, but I am VERY interested. I 'snack' a form
          of 'platt' (in addition to my funny Hochd.), and am a Platt
          enthusiast. I versammele everything of a Platt nature, and analyse it
          to death... then I tuck it in beside me in bed, and let it whisper
          sweet things in my ears at night. :)



          __________


          Elle, what is the name of the Platt dialect you speak? Is there a dictionary of it, or any other valuable information, available on the Internet? Although I am an English-speaking Canadian, I am also an enthusiast of the Germanic languages, particularly West Germanic, and any knowledge about any other dialect form that is not standard Hochdeutsch is of great interest to me. I'd also be interested in the Mecklenbörger Platt, if you can direct me to information about it. How many people speak your Platt dialect, and where is it found?



          Andrew





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • chamavian
          Moin Elle I suppose you already know the Lowlands ( Leegland ) site http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ Ingmar ... see ... it
          Message 4 of 8 , May 28 1:38 PM
            Moin Elle

            I suppose you already know the Lowlands ("Leegland") site

            http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/

            Ingmar



            --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, 'Elle Müller' <ellemueller_de@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas" <sloyment@...
            wrote:
            > >
            > > Tach ok!
            > > Is here ne1 interested in some folk songs recorded in the former
            > GDR?
            > > They are sung in "Meckelnbörger Platt", an almost dead language.
            > > I personally don't speak this language, neither do I know ne1 who
            > > does.
            > >
            > > Dat wars ok schon.
            > > Tschüß
            > > Thomas
            >
            > Thomas, I realise this message you wrote was in 1999, but I don't
            see
            > them anywhere on the list. I do not know whether or not you still
            > have these things, but I am VERY interested. I 'snack' a form
            > of 'platt' (in addition to my funny Hochd.), and am a Platt
            > enthusiast. I versammele everything of a Platt nature, and analyse
            it
            > to death... then I tuck it in beside me in bed, and let it whisper
            > sweet things in my ears at night. :)
            >
            > Alles gute,
            > -Elle
            >
          • 'Elle Müller'
            ... No idea if there s an official name for it. We call it user alde Sprak or user alde Dialekt , and Ald or De Aldsprak for short. ... On the internet?
            Message 5 of 8 , May 28 6:28 PM
              > Elle, what is the name of the Platt dialect you speak?

              No idea if there's an official name for it.
              We call it 'user alde Sprak' or 'user alde Dialekt', and 'Ald' or 'De
              Aldsprak' for short.

              > Is there a dictionary of it, or any other valuable information,
              > available on the Internet?

              On the internet? No... not that I'm aware of.
              As for a dictionary, I'm writing one. It's currently a limited
              lexicon I've been making for a couple of years, but it's fast
              approaching dictionary form.

              > Although I am an English-speaking Canadian, I am also an
              > enthusiast of the Germanic languages, particularly West Germanic,
              > and any knowledge about any other dialect form that is not standard
              > Hochdeutsch is of great interest to me.

              I know what you mean. Hochdeutsch is very beautiful in and of itself,
              but it is a well documented language. I am working to retain fluency
              in our pidgin or whatever it is, and document it as much as possible
              before it dies. My cousin and I are the youngest ones using it in our
              family, and the only ones younger than forty.

              > I'd also be interested in the Mecklenbörger Platt, if you can
              > direct me to information about it.

              I've had good results on google by typing 'Mecklenburger Platt'
              and 'Mekelnborger Platt'

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-RN_Q2C3EI
              Here's a short story in M.P. - it sounds a lot like our dialect,
              except I think our grammar has been corrupted, because oru grammar is
              a little simpler, with all verbs being regular, and not changing
              stems for the most part.


              > How many people speak your Platt dialect, and where is it found?

              I don't know entirely where it's found, and certainly don't know
              where it's from.
              When I was in germany, and in the U.S., I bumped into some people who
              could 'snack' Platt, and tried our dialect out on them. I've only
              found a few who definitely understood me. One was frisian - but he
              used terms like 'fisk' where I would say 'fisch'... another was from
              Belgien, and one lived in Hamburg, but he is now dead. (God rest his
              soul.) I don't remember where the rest were from.

              My father has some family in St. Louis Missouri, and a handful of
              them speak it, but I've not seen them since I was a tot.
              In our family, my father is able to speak it, but won't. I knew the
              dialect from what he would tell me in whispers in public, and have
              fostered it with my cousin as a cyrpto-speech, so we could talk
              without others knowing what we were saying... but I didn't supply our
              own words, I foudn some journals dad wrote (with american
              orthography) in the dialect when he was a tenn, and freshly married.

              I've used those words, and others from memory to come up with a list
              of roughly 2,500 words, but I'm recompiling them all for better
              quality, to print, and have among family who wish to know it.


              (I forget whether or not I've said this, but M.Platt sounds a lot
              like our dialect, just different in grammar and a few words, it
              seems.)
            • Andrew Jarrette
              ... No idea if there s an official name for it. We call it user alde Sprak or user alde Dialekt , and Ald or De Aldsprak for short. ________________
              Message 6 of 8 , May 29 12:47 PM
                'Elle Müller' <ellemueller_de@...> wrote:
                > Elle, what is the name of the Platt dialect you speak?

                No idea if there's an official name for it.
                We call it 'user alde Sprak' or 'user alde Dialekt', and 'Ald' or 'De
                Aldsprak' for short.
                ________________

                From that little bit of De Aldsprak, it seems that it might be very closely related to dialects that are the outcome of Old Saxon. I just bought a dictionary of Old Saxon from a German antiquarian, so a modern dictionary of a descendant or related language such as yours would be prized by me. I'll be one of the first customers of your dictionary when it's finished and published (unless you will be distributing it another way).
                ____________

                I know what you mean. Hochdeutsch is very beautiful in and of itself,
                but it is a well documented language. I am working to retain fluency
                in our pidgin or whatever it is, and document it as much as possible
                before it dies. My cousin and I are the youngest ones using it in our
                family, and the only ones younger than forty.
                __________

                Gosh I hope it doesn't die soon, that would be sad.
                _____________


                > How many people speak your Platt dialect, and where is it found?

                I don't know entirely where it's found, and certainly don't know
                where it's from.
                When I was in germany, and in the U.S., I bumped into some people who
                could 'snack' Platt, and tried our dialect out on them. I've only
                found a few who definitely understood me. One was frisian - but he
                used terms like 'fisk' where I would say 'fisch'... another was from
                Belgien, and one lived in Hamburg, but he is now dead. (God rest his
                soul.) I don't remember where the rest were from.
                ______________
                So are you not in Germany? Is your father in Germany, or did he emigrate? I would guess that De Aldsprak would be (or would have been) spoken in the area where your father lived -- where's that? By your flawless English I would guess that you now live in an English-speaking country.
                Again, I will be very interested in your completed dictionary, so please think of me when it's finished, if you can. Maybe you can save my e-mail address in your "Favourites" or "Contacts" list with a note saying that I want to be your first customer.

                Andrew Jarrette




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • 'Elle Müller'
                Andrew Jarrette schrieb: From that little bit of De Aldsprak, it seems that it might be very closely related to dialects that are the outcome of Old Saxon. I
                Message 7 of 8 , May 29 4:13 PM
                  Andrew Jarrette schrieb:
                  From that little bit of De Aldsprak, it seems that it might be
                  very closely related to dialects that are the outcome of Old Saxon.
                  I just bought a dictionary of Old Saxon from a German antiquarian, so
                  a modern dictionary of a descendant or related language such as yours
                  would be prized by me. I'll be one of the first customers of your
                  dictionary when it's finished and published (unless you will be
                  distributing it another way).

                  Re:
                  Well, I've been examining old Saxon and really old Frisian for a long
                  time, and it definitely seems related to the two somehow - like
                  frisian, most words and such have lost all inflection.
                  Only in my speech, and that of my father have we anything like a
                  distinction between one object or more with the definite article.
                  'De Appel, 'Die Appelen'... the other side of the family is more
                  likely to say 'De Appel', 'De Appel(e)n'.
                  I have been heavily documenting the usage, and have noticed a few
                  differences between those who use 'de/die', and 'de/de'. Two
                  variations in dialect, in fact.

                  To preserve our dialect, I'm noting both variations, and promoting a
                  middle-ground between the two as standard. So far, both understand
                  the middle-ground perfectly, but do NOT understand the opposing
                  dialect fully, as there are some basic differences. (We are = 'Wie
                  aren' (northern dia.) and 'Wier sen/sin/been' (southern dia.))

                  N.dia. : Wie wille(n) som Appel(e)n ette(n), und Watter drenke(n).
                  S.dia. : Wier willen anigen Appelen etten, und Watter drenken.
                  Standard: Wier willen som Appelen etten, und Watter drenken.

                  Just a fun little example, there. ^_^

                  > My cousin and I are the youngest ones using it in our
                  > family, and the only ones younger than forty.
                  > __________
                  >> Gosh I hope it doesn't die soon, that would be sad.

                  Me too, that's why I'm working to promote it being used among
                  ourselves, and the youngest of us. My older sister is just now giving
                  birth, and that baby will be the first in the new generation of our
                  family. I suspect the child will only know german and english, but I
                  am doing what I can to make some children books for him. I fear they
                  will not be recieved well, because my sister's husband (from Hessen)
                  has a very low opinion of any dialects.

                  Never the less, I shall try to do that for him, and the others of his
                  generation are forthcoming. I do not know what will come of our
                  family speech, but it is beautiful to me, and has a lovelier rhythm
                  than other dialects and hochdeutsch, to me.

                  Leider bin ich unfruchtbar, und wir werden keine Kinder. :(
                  I'm the one who is most passionate about the preservation of the
                  dialect in the family, and there's not much I can do to foster it,
                  because it comes down to the choices others will make in thier own
                  families.

                  >So are you not in Germany? Is your father in Germany, or did he
                  >emigrate? I would guess that De Aldsprak would be (or would have
                  >been) spoken in the area where your father lived -- where's that?
                  >By your flawless English I would guess that you now live in an
                  >English-speaking country.

                  I speak english well? Wonderful!
                  My grandparents were all born in the U.S.A., and so were my parents
                  and uncles/aunts.
                  I, however, was born in the US, and never lived where I was born, but
                  have lived around the world from just shortly after birth until my
                  early teens. We emigrated from europe lastly. (Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
                  was NO fun! Ask the Alqaeda prisoners there now.)

                  >Again, I will be very interested in your completed dictionary,
                  >so please think of me when it's finished, if you can. Maybe you
                  >can save my e-mail address in your "Favourites" or "Contacts" list
                  >with a note saying that I want to be your first customer.

                  I'll not be publishing it, because no one will take it seriously at a
                  publishing house. (Especially since I can't jet pinpoint any exact
                  points of origin.)
                  So, I shall be completing my work on it, then making the books by my
                  own hand. (Hardback, since those last longer.)
                  I intend the book to be used well (though not thrown about) and still
                  outlast my lifespan, so I'm going to aim to make it a hardback.

                  I'll not forget your offer/request, either.
                  It is going to cost 15-20$; not counting the labour-time I'll spend
                  putting it together.
                  Because of the cost of materials, I don't plan to make a large number
                  of them unless of course more people commit their interest, because
                  there are only -10 speakers I've met in our family tree who know it,
                  so I've only been planning on making one for every houshold among
                  them, and a couple for archival in my house, should other children or
                  speakers come along. Therefore, definitely no more than 20 are within
                  my reach right now.

                  No one around here knows how to bind a book, nor even make a
                  paperback, so I'll be doing all of it on my own. My cousin will be
                  acting with me to organise the work, and help with all of the editing
                  and layout, but the actual linguistics, paper, sewing, glue, and
                  binding are all on me. :/

                  Oh well.
                  Do people ever talk about FS on this list? If so, which one? LOL
                • Andrew Jarrette
                  Elle Müller wrote: Elle Müller wrote: To preserve our dialect, I m noting both variations, and
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 29 8:20 PM
                    'Elle Müller' <ellemueller_de@...> wrote:


                    'Elle Müller' <ellemueller_de@...> wrote:
                    To preserve our dialect, I'm noting both variations, and promoting a
                    middle-ground between the two as standard. So far, both understand
                    the middle-ground perfectly, but do NOT understand the opposing
                    dialect fully, as there are some basic differences. (We are = 'Wie
                    aren' (northern dia.) and 'Wier sen/sin/been' (southern dia.))

                    N.dia. : Wie wille(n) som Appel(e)n ette(n), und Watter drenke(n).
                    S.dia. : Wier willen anigen Appelen etten, und Watter drenken.
                    Standard: Wier willen som Appelen etten, und Watter drenken.

                    Just a fun little example, there. ^_^
                    _____________________

                    Andrew:

                    As an English speaker, it's very interesting to see how similar to English simple sentences such as this are.
                    _____________________

                    Elle:


                    Me too, that's why I'm working to promote it being used among
                    ourselves, and the youngest of us. My older sister is just now giving
                    birth, and that baby will be the first in the new generation of our
                    family. I suspect the child will only know german and english, but I
                    am doing what I can to make some children books for him. I fear they
                    will not be recieved well, because my sister's husband (from Hessen)
                    has a very low opinion of any dialects.
                    _____________

                    Andrew:


                    Most unfortunate. Also unfortunate, in my opinion, that the entire Plattdeutsch area never became its own country with Plattdeutsch as its national language (presumably standardized out of all the regional variants).



                    >So are you not in Germany? Is your father in Germany, or did he
                    >emigrate? I would guess that De Aldsprak would be (or would have
                    >been) spoken in the area where your father lived -- where's that?
                    >By your flawless English I would guess that you now live in an
                    >English-speaking country.
                    Elle:

                    I speak english well? Wonderful!
                    My grandparents were all born in the U.S.A., and so were my parents
                    and uncles/aunts.
                    I, however, was born in the US, and never lived where I was born, but
                    have lived around the world from just shortly after birth until my
                    early teens. We emigrated from europe lastly. (Guantanamo Bay, Cuba
                    was NO fun! Ask the Alqaeda prisoners there now.)
                    _______________

                    Andrew:


                    So I'm guessing your parents must be diplomats or international journalists or something. But you and your ancestors have spoken De Aldsprak even though you all have been far outside of Germany for many years - how does that happen? One would think that by living away from your language's homeland, you would eventually lose it, especially from one generation to the next. Nevertheless, I am glad that your family has maintained it, otherwise you would not be making a dictionary of it, which I hope to obtain. Too bad you don't know where in Germany De Aldsprak is spoken. But I also notice you do not want to give away your current place of residence. OK, although I have no idea why. It would give me an idea of the international spread of De Aldsprak.
                    ________________

                    Elle:


                    I'll not be publishing it, because no one will take it seriously at a
                    publishing house. (Especially since I can't jet pinpoint any exact
                    points of origin.)
                    So, I shall be completing my work on it, then making the books by my
                    own hand. (Hardback, since those last longer.)
                    I intend the book to be used well (though not thrown about) and still
                    outlast my lifespan, so I'm going to aim to make it a hardback.

                    I'll not forget your offer/request, either.
                    It is going to cost 15-20$; not counting the labour-time I'll spend
                    putting it together.
                    ______________

                    Andrew:


                    I will be waiting patiently for your dictionary once it becomes available. As the Simple Minds song goes, "Don't you forget about me"!

                    People do talk in and about Folksprak, but I think what prevents more communication is the fact that it's not standardized and each individual writes in his own version of Folksprak. I myself don't know whether I should make it similar to Dutch, or to Swedish or Danish, or to German, or ? So I end up just reading postings rather than submitting any. But that could change.



                    Andrew Jarrette



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