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Re: Vocabulary

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  • stefichjo
    I have added els and eller to my Wordschatt. :-) But I m not 100% sure about the meaning. Apparently els and eller are both derivations from an extinct
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 14, 2007
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      I have added "els" and "eller" to my Wordschatt. :-)

      But I'm not 100% sure about the meaning. Apparently "els" and "eller"
      are both derivations from an extinct word "ell", which doesn't mean
      "ell" like in "ellbow". :-)

      So "els" seems to be an adverb (ell + s), whereas "eller" could be a
      preposition. (?)

      The meaning seems to be "not this one", _not_ "not like this one",
      which seems to be rather like "ander".

      Just brainstorming. :-)

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@> wrote:
      > >
      > > > When making an FS cross word for "room", which words do I mix
      > > > together? Room and Zimmer producing "Zoomer" or "Rimmer"? Or
      Raum and
      > > > Chamber producing "Rumber"? Or perhaps Room and Chamber and
      Zimmer and
      > > > Raum and Kammer and Saal all together producing Ruzimberl?
      > >
      > > Hi David.
      > >
      > > That's my point, too. And that's why I don't crosswords either.
      > >
      > > Crosswording could end in forms like you have described. This way of
      > > forming words reminds me of a set of words in Esperanto. The stem of
      > > the verb meaning "to glide" (DE "schlittern") is "glit". I don't want
      > > to have this kind of words in Folksprak, simply because I think this
      > > is not neccessary.
      > Hi Stefan.
      > There is one place where cross-words may have their place, and that is
      > with onomatopoeic words. There are words that sound like what they
      > describe (such as EN "pop" or "woof"). Often with these words you find
      > a bunch of words in the germlangs with an obscure etymological
      > relationship that mostly resemble each other because they resemble the
      > same sound. In such cases, probably cross-wording would be OK.

      I don't know "woof" very well, I don't know a German cognate. EN "pop"
      is German "puff" ("puffen"). My naive approach is to have FS "poppe"
      for "to pop". Btw, German "poppen" means to have sex and is clearly
      related to "pop", "bang" and so on.

      > > > So when I "invent" words for FS, I look for groups of cognate words
      > > > that are shared across of a majority of the source languages. An
      > > > example would be EN room, NL ruim, DE Raum, SV rum. These are all
      > > > evolutions from Proto-Germanic *r�man. I then look for the meanings
      > > > that are shared across the group of shared words. If there is little
      > > > or no shared meaning, then a word based on that set of cognates
      > > > probably will not be suitable for FS.
      > >
      > > I think these words ("rum" and "timmer") should be Folksprak words. We
      > > need to define their meaning if neccessary. But we shouldn't drop
      > > those words.
      > "Rum" should definitely be in FS, but it might not mean exactly the
      > same as in English Room or German Raum (but probably similar to both).
      > FS timmer should probably mean something like "wood", but not like DE
      > Zimmer. (except in the sense of in Zimmermann)
      > "Timmer" would probably the best candidate of a FS word for "wood"
      > since the other alternatives are not as common among the germlangs.
      > Scand tre/tr�/trae is cognate to EN tree with a different (yet
      > overlapping meaning). DE Holz and NL hout are cognate. EN wood seems
      > to have no cognates in the other germlangs. So nothing is represented
      > in the majority. Timmer/Zimmer/Timber etc are represented in most of
      > the germlangs yet with differing meanings/contexts but the commonest
      > under-lying thread of meaning seems to be "wood".

      I'm in favour of taking the most original meaning of a FS word still
      present among the Germanlangs. So if "klen" originally means "little"
      and later "clean", then the meaning should be "little", like in German.

      So "timmer" should be, like in English, "wood" rather than "chamber".

      "rum" should be "vacant space" and "(chamber) room", I guess.

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "atamskuuk" <adam_skoog5@...> wrote:
      > I found "Dis is to dyr" in the wordlist before. I had a good laugh at
      > that, since it looks like a Swedish person joking with English, as it
      > looks like "This is too dyr", where "dyr" is the only Swedish word and
      > the rest are English. xD

      Yeah, I like this happening, too. :-)

      --- In folkspraak@yahoogroups.com, "David Parke" <parked@...> wrote:
      > If it's my dialect of FS (which it may be since those are all valid
      > words in my dialect), then it might look English but would be
      > pronounced somewhat differently:
      > [di:s Is to: dy:r].

      It could be my dialect, too, even though I prefer "er":

      Dis er to dyr.
      [DIs Is to: dy:r].

      As you can see, "dis" is short, like so many pronouns ("ik", "dat",
      "wan"). Have you considered this option, David?

      > Incidentally, "is" is also used in Dutch in almost the exact same way
      > as in English. And "dyr" is also used in Danish (but means both "dear"
      > and "animal", unlike in SV where they are two distinct words).

      The two respective FS words are "dyr" and "dir" ("dear" and "deer"),
      aren't they, David?

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