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Re: [flapdoodle_dinghy] Re: Thinking out loud index

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  • Bob Slimak
    Bill, Oops, forgot to mention that it is 5mm five Baltic Birch ply, exterior glued, no voids. I bought a sheet of that Luann ply from Menard s, the stuff with
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 30, 2007
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      Bill,
      Oops, forgot to mention that it is 5mm five Baltic Birch ply, exterior glued, no voids. I bought a sheet of that Luann ply from Menard's, the stuff with the white wood center plys and about a 1/64 veneer of Luann on the two faces and found I could break a corner off with my hands!  The Luann they used to carry was much better. I have a solo canoe built out of that stuff that is 11 years old and still going strong.  The new stuff is junk. Anyway, when folded the stitching is fairly loose, tightens after unfolding.  This was two weeks ago and nothing else has happened since.  I have folded and unfolded it half a dozen time since. It is currently upside down so I can do the fabric ends.  I am not doubling the fabric there since it is not under any stress.  As I said, the doubled Dacron polyester fabric on all four hinged seams should hold the boat together. If the need arises I can always bolt on some metal hinges without having to take off the fabric covers.  As I said, It will get a lot of testing January through mid April and I will let you know how things work out.  I hope to get the fabric ends on by the end of the weekend.  I have to cut out the plywood clamps for the ends first.  The big problem with finishing that by the weekend is that I will probably have to waste a lot of time shoveling snow as we are supposed to get up to a foot by Sunday!
      Bob

      Bill <flapdoodle_dinghy@...> wrote:
      WOW. I'm not sure what to think.
      You do not say what type of wood the plywood is made of. Is it 5 ply
      luan? What thickness? I had some 5mm 5 ply luan that was much more
      flexible than the cheaper ply. Wish I had a truckload of it.

      You say the stitching is under tension. How? When you stitched, it
      should have very little tension, just to make sure the slack is taken
      up. When closed, there is a little tension, but no real load as there
      would be in a fully loaded boat on the water.

      I am assuming that you glued the holes after stitching as in the
      instructions. To have the stitch pull through the fiberglass, the 5
      ply wood I expect would take an incredible amount of force. I had
      tested it with crummy wood, and it took a LOT of weight before that
      happened and that was only because the weight was concentrated on a 1"
      wood dowel. What was going on when this happened? On the water? How
      much load, and where was it?

      If the stitches pulled through the wood, the screws on metal hinges
      would be even more likely to do that, since they are fewer in number
      making the force concentrated.

      More details, please.
      Bill

      --- In flapdoodle_dinghy@ yahoogroups. com, Bob Slimak <otter55806@ ...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi Bill,
      > Here is something to muse on. I used good 5 ply instead of the
      cheap Luann. Since the Dacron cloth applied with diluted pro bond,
      tite bond is still unproven I glassed the outside of the panel with
      3.5 oz glass and epoxy. The reason for this is that I will be using
      the dinghy as a ship supply boat for my 22' Bolger Folding houseboat.
      I figured a folding houseboat had to have a folding dinghy, right?
      Anyway, since I spend three months of winter out cruising, if things
      started delaminating I can't go back to my shop to take care of any
      problem. The problem (possible) is that my panels are apparently a
      lot stiffer than the norm. I say this because even though I used 50
      lb test braided fishing line instead of the 20 lb you said you used,
      the sewn hinges are under so much tension that a couple of the ones on
      the end snapped, and one even pulled right through the 3/16" of ply
      between the hole and the side! Unwilling to cut it all off and start
      over with something else, I
      > tied off the snapped ends, did triple loops at the ends where is
      snapped, then when I put on the fabric hinge covers I double them. I
      also used polyurethane adhesive caulk instead of siliconized acrylic.
      So my cover are polyurethane, fabric, polyurethane, fabric,
      polyurethane, plywood clamps screwed down. I'm thinking that if the
      braided line ends up snapping, two layers of the fabric will be strong
      enough to keep things together. I changed nothing on the inside,
      putting the Gorilla brand duct tape on as shown.
      > So, what I am saying is that if others are using stiffer 5 ply
      plywood, glassed or not, be careful! A possible better thread for the
      sewn seams would be to go to a tennis shop and buy the stuff with
      which they string tennis rackets. They take a whole lot of high
      tension, but I'm sure cost a lot more. Still, better than having the
      hinges snap! Also, drill the holes back further, say 1/4 or 5/16
      instead of 3/16. I'll let the group know how things last after three
      months on the gulf next spring. With temps 11 below last night, and
      25 below the night before, I wish I could get out of here NOW instead
      of waiting until January!
      > Bob
      >
      > Bill <flapdoodle_ dinghy@.. .> wrote:
      > As threatened, I started a page with links to things we
      have discussed
      > in the group. Probably have missed some, but I am on it.
      >
      > In the future, I will date the pages and make reference to the group
      > posting number(s).
      >
      > http://flapdoodledi nghy.com/ tol.html
      >
      > If you have anything you would like added, please let me know.
      >
      > Bill
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
      > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your
      homepage.
      >



      Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage.

    • Bill
      I am still confused as to how you constructed it, and where/how the stitches failed, and where/how the stitches ripped through the plywood, fiberglass AND
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 1, 2007
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        I am still confused as to how you constructed it, and where/how the
        stitches failed, and where/how the stitches ripped through the
        plywood, fiberglass AND Dacron when the stitches and Dacron were glued
        to the panel then fiberglass over that.

        From your letter is sounds like you cut the panels, and laminated the
        Dacron to it (outside). Right so far?

        Then as an extra precaution you added 3.5oz fiberglass cloth to the
        (outside) with epoxy resin. OK so far?

        You sanded the edges to a smooth radius, then drilled the holes for
        the stitches.

        Now, you did the stitches in the open position of course. There should
        be only enough tension on the line the hold it snug.

        The holes were glued to keep the line from slipping, and allowed to dry.

        At what point did the stitches rip through the plywood, Dacron, and
        fiberglass?
        At what point did the stitches break? Where did they break?

        I can't see how the line can be tight in one position, and loose in
        another, since the line rolls off one edge and onto the other with the
        other side doing the exact opposite, all very smoothly. It seems
        physically impossible.

        Can you supply us with photos? Sketches?

        Bill


        --- In flapdoodle_dinghy@yahoogroups.com, Bob Slimak <otter55806@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Bill,
        > Oops, forgot to mention that it is 5mm five Baltic Birch ply,
        exterior glued, no voids. I bought a sheet of that Luann ply from
        Menard's, the stuff with the white wood center plys and about a 1/64
        veneer of Luann on the two faces and found I could break a corner off
        with my hands! The Luann they used to carry was much better. I have a
        solo canoe built out of that stuff that is 11 years old and still
        going strong. The new stuff is junk. Anyway, when folded the
        stitching is fairly loose, tightens after unfolding. This was two
        weeks ago and nothing else has happened since. I have folded and
        unfolded it half a dozen time since. It is currently upside down so I
        can do the fabric ends. I am not doubling the fabric there since it
        is not under any stress. As I said, the doubled Dacron polyester
        fabric on all four hinged seams should hold the boat together. If the
        need arises I can always bolt on some metal hinges without having to
        take off the fabric covers. As I said, It
        > will get a lot of testing January through mid April and I will let
        you know how things work out. I hope to get the fabric ends on by the
        end of the weekend. I have to cut out the plywood clamps for the ends
        first. The big problem with finishing that by the weekend is that I
        will probably have to waste a lot of time shoveling snow as we are
        supposed to get up to a foot by Sunday!
        > Bob
        >
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