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Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season

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  • Jerry Lazarczyk
    I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least, some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
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      I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some
      hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least,
      some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
      out there. Does anyone know of any sections that are
      gun- and arrow-free? I think I'll go nuts if I can't
      hit the trails until spring!

      Gina Mushynsky
      Baldwinsville, NY

      Gina,

      By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.

      Jerry Lazarczyk
      Grand Island NY


      __________________________________
      Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
      http://mail.yahoo.com





      Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • slauffer@stny.rr.com
      Gina and all, One thing to consider during hunting season is hiking the road walks. It keeps you out of the woods and is a great time to get some of these out
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
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        Gina and all,
        One thing to consider during hunting season is hiking the road walks. It keeps you out of the woods and is a great time to get some of these out of the way if your intent is to go end-to-end.
        Scott Lauffer

        Elenderel <elenderel@...> wrote :

        > I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some
        > hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least,
        > some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
        > out there. Does anyone know of any sections that are
        > gun- and arrow-free? I think I'll go nuts if I can't
        > hit the trails until spring!
        >
        > Gina Mushynsky
        > Baldwinsville, NY
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fingerlakestrail/
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > fingerlakestrail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges
        For personal liability reasons, I am not writing to encourage any of you to do what I do, but.... Bow hunters need to be quite close to their targets before
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
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          For personal liability reasons, I am not writing to encourage any of you to do what I do, but....

          Bow hunters need to be quite close to their targets before shooting -- close enough to definitely tell that you are a person, not a deer. They will hear you coming, and if you wear bright orange -- "international orange" or "safety orange" -- they will see you, too, although you may never see them. Note that bow hunters are often in full camo with darkened faces -- I doubt they would do this if they had any reason to fear bow hunters. Our local hiking group seems to feel perfectly safe hiking during bow season, although I always wear bright orange....

          I confess to being a bit more cautious about going into the woods during big game gun season than bow season, mostly because there are just more hunters in the woods then -- and of course, we're in gun season now. However, big game gun hunters are very, very, very unlikely to shoot you, either, if you wear bright orange. (In New York, you can't hunt deer with a rifle -- you have to use a shot gun, muzzle loader, or pistol (I think), all of which require the hunter to be closer to the game than if he/she were using a powerful rifle with a big scope.) Cheap bright orange vests can be gotten at almost any hardware store or even (should you be brave enough to venture in) at Wal-Mart's. Wear a bright orange hat, too -- Dick's Sporting Goods sells an inexpensive bright orange GoreTex baseball cap that is plenty handsome for the guys and actually sort of flattering for us girls. If I take my dog into the woods during big game hunting season, I make sure he's wearing a reflective bright orange collar and "vest" (available from Gander Mountain or Cabella's or some similar place) and keep him on a bright orange leash (leash your dog, unless your dog stays right with you and never runs away). I have also sewn bright safety orange webbing (cut from a leash) onto my pack, and you can get reflective bright orange grosgrain tape from a mailorder fabric store (can't remember the name, so Google it). Lastly, you can also get reflective bright orange or yellow items from bicycle shops.

          During big game hunting season, the best time to hike is mid-day. Often hunters have returned to their cabins for a mid day nap, and the deer aren't usually moving much. If you do hike at night, hike in the early part of the evening and watch for the little reflective dots (thumb tacks, push pins or twisties) that hunters, usually bow hunters, put on trees and limbs to guide them along the trail or to their favorite spot in the dark hours right before dawn.

          Some of my best trailwork experiences have been during hunting season, when I've had a chance to meet and chat with hunters who are in the state forest and wonder what I'm doing clearing brush off the trail or scouting for a reroute. I grew up with hunters -- both my father and mother were avid hunters, my dad was twice the national president of the NRA (back in the days when the NRA was on the side of law enforcement), and I shot my one and only deer at the age of 10; so I am probably more comfortable around them than some of you. But most really are pretty nice and most don't hunt and drink. All have to pass a hunter safety course. As Jerry said (below), you really are in much more danger driving to and from the trail head than you are from being in the woods -- as long as you dress properly, with bright orange on your torso and head, so they can easily see you. And if you are on a defined trail, like the FLT, you are much safer than if you're plowing through a thicket of brush. Deer hole-up in thickets; and hunting lore says that the big white tail bucks won't go on defined trail because of our human scent being there....

          Regardless of how you feel about hunting, if you are respectful of the hunters being there, they should have no reason to bother you, even if you walk close to their "private" stand. I would recommend not going in to really popular hunting areas, just because there is likely to be a lot of folks around. And I would recommend not going into a state forest that's right next to one of our landowners who closes his/her property during hunting season, and of course, we cannot and should not go on closed trail. But that leaves a lot of trail on state forest or posted private land (i.e., it allows hiking -- it's posted but not closed to hiking) that could, I think, be quite safely hiked during big game hunting season, if you dress appropriately and stay on the trail.

          Lynda Rummel





          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Jerry Lazarczyk" <lazarcg1@...>
          To: <elenderel@...>
          Cc: <fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:15 PM
          Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


          >
          >
          > I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some
          > hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least,
          > some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
          > out there. Does anyone know of any sections that are
          > gun- and arrow-free? I think I'll go nuts if I can't
          > hit the trails until spring!
          >
          > Gina Mushynsky
          > Baldwinsville, NY
          >
          > Gina,
          >
          > By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
          >
          > Jerry Lazarczyk
          > Grand Island NY
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
          > http://mail.yahoo.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • EllenGT@aol.com
          Hi Concerned FLTers, My understanding is that rifles are now allowed in certain areas of the state. This is new. Everyone needs to know whether their
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
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            Hi Concerned FLTers,
            My understanding is that rifles are now allowed in certain areas of the
            state. This is new. Everyone needs to know whether "their" favorite place is a
            rifle place or not.
            Ellen Gibson


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kevin millar
            Rifle hunting has been allowed in Delaware County, NY and recently it was expanded to other counties, including Tioga County Kevin Millar .Lynda Rummel & Rolf
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Rifle hunting has been allowed in Delaware County, NY and recently it was expanded to other counties, including Tioga County Kevin Millar


              .Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges <ljrassoc@...> wrote:
              For personal liability reasons, I am not writing to encourage any of you to do what I do, but....

              Bow hunters need to be quite close to their targets before shooting -- close enough to definitely tell that you are a person, not a deer. They will hear you coming, and if you wear bright orange -- "international orange" or "safety orange" -- they will see you, too, although you may never see them. Note that bow hunters are often in full camo with darkened faces -- I doubt they would do this if they had any reason to fear bow hunters. Our local hiking group seems to feel perfectly safe hiking during bow season, although I always wear bright orange....

              I confess to being a bit more cautious about going into the woods during big game gun season than bow season, mostly because there are just more hunters in the woods then -- and of course, we're in gun season now. However, big game gun hunters are very, very, very unlikely to shoot you, either, if you wear bright orange. (In New York, you can't hunt deer with a rifle -- you have to use a shot gun, muzzle loader, or pistol (I think), all of which require the hunter to be closer to the game than if he/she were using a powerful rifle with a big scope.) Cheap bright orange vests can be gotten at almost any hardware store or even (should you be brave enough to venture in) at Wal-Mart's. Wear a bright orange hat, too -- Dick's Sporting Goods sells an inexpensive bright orange GoreTex baseball cap that is plenty handsome for the guys and actually sort of flattering for us girls. If I take my dog into the woods during big game hunting season, I make sure he's wearing a reflective
              bright orange collar and "vest" (available from Gander Mountain or Cabella's or some similar place) and keep him on a bright orange leash (leash your dog, unless your dog stays right with you and never runs away). I have also sewn bright safety orange webbing (cut from a leash) onto my pack, and you can get reflective bright orange grosgrain tape from a mailorder fabric store (can't remember the name, so Google it). Lastly, you can also get reflective bright orange or yellow items from bicycle shops.

              During big game hunting season, the best time to hike is mid-day. Often hunters have returned to their cabins for a mid day nap, and the deer aren't usually moving much. If you do hike at night, hike in the early part of the evening and watch for the little reflective dots (thumb tacks, push pins or twisties) that hunters, usually bow hunters, put on trees and limbs to guide them along the trail or to their favorite spot in the dark hours right before dawn.

              Some of my best trailwork experiences have been during hunting season, when I've had a chance to meet and chat with hunters who are in the state forest and wonder what I'm doing clearing brush off the trail or scouting for a reroute. I grew up with hunters -- both my father and mother were avid hunters, my dad was twice the national president of the NRA (back in the days when the NRA was on the side of law enforcement), and I shot my one and only deer at the age of 10; so I am probably more comfortable around them than some of you. But most really are pretty nice and most don't hunt and drink. All have to pass a hunter safety course. As Jerry said (below), you really are in much more danger driving to and from the trail head than you are from being in the woods -- as long as you dress properly, with bright orange on your torso and head, so they can easily see you. And if you are on a defined trail, like the FLT, you are much safer than if you're plowing through a thicket of
              brush. Deer hole-up in thickets; and hunting lore says that the big white tail bucks won't go on defined trail because of our human scent being there....

              Regardless of how you feel about hunting, if you are respectful of the hunters being there, they should have no reason to bother you, even if you walk close to their "private" stand. I would recommend not going in to really popular hunting areas, just because there is likely to be a lot of folks around. And I would recommend not going into a state forest that's right next to one of our landowners who closes his/her property during hunting season, and of course, we cannot and should not go on closed trail. But that leaves a lot of trail on state forest or posted private land (i.e., it allows hiking -- it's posted but not closed to hiking) that could, I think, be quite safely hiked during big game hunting season, if you dress appropriately and stay on the trail.

              Lynda Rummel





              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Jerry Lazarczyk" <lazarcg1@...>
              To: <elenderel@...>
              Cc: <fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:15 PM
              Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


              >
              >
              > I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some
              > hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least,
              > some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
              > out there. Does anyone know of any sections that are
              > gun- and arrow-free? I think I'll go nuts if I can't
              > hit the trails until spring!
              >
              > Gina Mushynsky
              > Baldwinsville, NY
              >
              > Gina,
              >
              > By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
              >
              > Jerry Lazarczyk
              > Grand Island NY
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...



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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Joe Dabes
              Indeed, this year using rifles during the gun deer season is now allowed in the southern tier and western NY, in other words the whole FLT system. As Lynda, I
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Indeed, this year using rifles during the gun deer season is now allowed in the southern tier and western NY, in other words the whole FLT system. As Lynda, I am not at all worried about running or hiking trails during archery deer season, as archery hunters must be very close to their prey. But I would stay out of out of hunting areas during the 3 or 4 weeks of gun deer season. Then, I have tended to do my running and hiking on trails in the extensive Cornell Plantations land near Ithaca, as hunting is not allowed, but even there I always wear orange.

                Java Joe
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: kevin millar<mailto:kjmilow@...>
                To: Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges<mailto:ljrassoc@...> ; elenderel@...<mailto:elenderel@...> ; Jerry Lazarczyk<mailto:lazarcg1@...>
                Cc: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com<mailto:fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 6:19 PM
                Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


                Rifle hunting has been allowed in Delaware County, NY and recently it was expanded to other counties, including Tioga County Kevin Millar


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jerry Lazarczyk
                Lynda, I pretty much agree with what you have said with a couple of exceptions. Huntinmg with rifles in parts of NY and certaily in WNY. Tou are very, very,
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Lynda,

                  I pretty much agree with what you have said with a couple of exceptions. Huntinmg with rifles in parts of NY and certaily in WNY. Tou are very, very, very unlikely to get shot in NY by hunters whether you wear bright colors or not but I like my chances better if I bright colors.

                  Thank you for a well written, well thought out message on a very difficult subject.

                  Jerry Lazarczyk
                  Grand Island NY


                  For personal liability reasons, I am not writing to encourage any of you to do what I do, but....

                  Bow hunters need to be quite close to their targets before shooting -- close enough to definitely tell that you are a person, not a deer. They will hear you coming, and if you wear bright orange -- "international orange" or "safety orange" -- they will see you, too, although you may never see them. Note that bow hunters are often in full camo with darkened faces -- I doubt they would do this if they had any reason to fear bow hunters. Our local hiking group seems to feel perfectly safe hiking during bow season, although I always wear bright orange....

                  I confess to being a bit more cautious about going into the woods during big game gun season than bow season, mostly because there are just more hunters in the woods then -- and of course, we're in gun season now. However, big game gun hunters are very, very, very unlikely to shoot you, either, if you wear bright orange. (In New York, you can't hunt deer with a rifle -- you have to use a shot gun, muzzle loader, or pistol (I think), all of which require the hunter to be closer to the game than if he/she were using a powerful rifle with a big scope.) Cheap bright orange vests can be gotten at almost any hardware store or even (should you be brave enough to venture in) at Wal-Mart's. Wear a bright orange hat, too -- Dick's Sporting Goods sells an inexpensive bright orange GoreTex baseball cap that is plenty handsome for the guys and actually sort of flattering for us girls. If I take my dog into the woods during big game hunting season, I make sure he's wearing a reflective bright orange collar and "vest" (available from Gander Mountain or Cabella's or some similar place) and keep him on a bright orange leash (leash your dog, unless your dog stays right with you and never runs away). I have also sewn bright safety orange webbing (cut from a leash) onto my pack, and you can get reflective bright orange grosgrain tape from a mailorder fabric store (can't remember the name, so Google it). Lastly, you can also get reflective bright orange or yellow items from bicycle shops.

                  During big game hunting season, the best time to hike is mid-day. Often hunters have returned to their cabins for a mid day nap, and the deer aren't usually moving much. If you do hike at night, hike in the early part of the evening and watch for the little reflective dots (thumb tacks, push pins or twisties) that hunters, usually bow hunters, put on trees and limbs to guide them along the trail or to their favorite spot in the dark hours right before dawn.

                  Some of my best trailwork experiences have been during hunting season, when I've had a chance to meet and chat with hunters who are in the state forest and wonder what I'm doing clearing brush off the trail or scouting for a reroute. I grew up with hunters -- both my father and mother were avid hunters, my dad was twice the national president of the NRA (back in the days when the NRA was on the side of law enforcement), and I shot my one and only deer at the age of 10; so I am probably more comfortable around them than some of you. But most really are pretty nice and most don't hunt and drink. All have to pass a hunter safety course. As Jerry said (below), you really are in much more danger driving to and from the trail head than you are from being in the woods -- as long as you dress properly, with bright orange on your torso and head, so they can easily see you. And if you are on a defined trail, like the FLT, you are much safer than if you're plowing through a thicket of brush. Deer hole-up in thickets; and hunting lore says that the big white tail bucks won't go on defined trail because of our human scent being there....

                  Regardless of how you feel about hunting, if you are respectful of the hunters being there, they should have no reason to bother you, even if you walk close to their "private" stand. I would recommend not going in to really popular hunting areas, just because there is likely to be a lot of folks around. And I would recommend not going into a state forest that's right next to one of our landowners who closes his/her property during hunting season, and of course, we cannot and should not go on closed trail. But that leaves a lot of trail on state forest or posted private land (i.e., it allows hiking -- it's posted but not closed to hiking) that could, I think, be quite safely hiked during big game hunting season, if you dress appropriately and stay on the trail.

                  Lynda Rummel





                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Jerry Lazarczyk" <lazarcg1@...>
                  To: <elenderel@...>
                  Cc: <fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:15 PM
                  Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


                  >
                  >
                  > I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some
                  > hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least,
                  > some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
                  > out there. Does anyone know of any sections that are
                  > gun- and arrow-free? I think I'll go nuts if I can't
                  > hit the trails until spring!
                  >
                  > Gina Mushynsky
                  > Baldwinsville, NY
                  >
                  > Gina,
                  >
                  > By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                  >
                  > Jerry Lazarczyk
                  > Grand Island NY
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
                  > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                • Jon A Kapecki
                  I don t want to be negative about this, and I certainly have nothing whatsoever against either hunters or hunting (surplus venison gladly accepted), but I once
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I don't want to be negative about this, and I certainly have nothing
                    whatsoever against either hunters or hunting (surplus venison gladly
                    accepted), but I once had a bullet spang into a tree no more than a foot
                    from my head. No, this was not on the Finger Lakes trail, but on our
                    neighbor, the Long Trail in Vermont. I yelled, the bushes rustled, but
                    nobody appeared.

                    On another occassion, I found a youngster who had become separated from
                    his father or older brother (never got that straight) who had gone to
                    "flush game" so the kid could shoot something. The youngster became
                    frightened and fired several shots skyward to attract attention (us,
                    eventually). The thought of an excited kid hunkered down in the bushes
                    waiting for game to appear did not reassure me.

                    On that same trip (on the Black Forest Trail in PA), we met a grizzled
                    ranger on our way out. "You boys leavin' today?" he drawled. Yes, we
                    replied. "That's good," he said. "Tomorrow's gun season." I could imagine
                    him mulling over the unpleasant paperwork that would accrue to him with
                    one or two wounded (or worse) backpackers to explain.

                    With those memories still in mind and with stories in our local paper
                    about wounded hunters (three this week) to keep me paranoid, I've been
                    fairly cautious about wandering out during gun season on to the hunters'
                    turf. For the most part, I've stuck to places like those run by the
                    Nature Conservancy, the canal towpath, state and county parks, and the
                    like. There was a section of the FLT in the Italy Hill area where the
                    landowner had posted against hunting, but open to hikers. Haven't been on
                    the section for a while.

                    Like others I've had no problems anywhere during bow season, though I do
                    take the precaution of wearing a blaze orange plastic vest and hat.

                    JonK
                  • Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges
                    Thanks to those of you who have identified where rifle hunting is allowed. So far, here in Yates Co., we are still restricted (thank heavens). I did want to
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks to those of you who have identified where rifle hunting is allowed. So far, here in Yates Co., we are still restricted (thank heavens). I did want to mention that some of the state parks either prohibit hunting or restrict it to just bow or muzzleloading, or some such combination, so the trails in many state parks can be hiked during big game hunting season without too much difficulty -- check the rules for your particular local state park (Keuka Lake State Park is restricted to bow and muzzleloaders, for example, and has many nice [but short] trails).

                      Lynda Rummel
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: kevin millar
                      To: Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges ; elenderel@... ; Jerry Lazarczyk
                      Cc: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 6:19 PM
                      Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


                      Rifle hunting has been allowed in Delaware County, NY and recently it was expanded to other counties, including Tioga County Kevin Millar


                      .Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges <ljrassoc@...> wrote:
                      For personal liability reasons, I am not writing to encourage any of you to do what I do, but....

                      Bow hunters need to be quite close to their targets before shooting -- close enough to definitely tell that you are a person, not a deer. They will hear you coming, and if you wear bright orange -- "international orange" or "safety orange" -- they will see you, too, although you may never see them. Note that bow hunters are often in full camo with darkened faces -- I doubt they would do this if they had any reason to fear bow hunters. Our local hiking group seems to feel perfectly safe hiking during bow season, although I always wear bright orange....

                      I confess to being a bit more cautious about going into the woods during big game gun season than bow season, mostly because there are just more hunters in the woods then -- and of course, we're in gun season now. However, big game gun hunters are very, very, very unlikely to shoot you, either, if you wear bright orange. (In New York, you can't hunt deer with a rifle -- you have to use a shot gun, muzzle loader, or pistol (I think), all of which require the hunter to be closer to the game than if he/she were using a powerful rifle with a big scope.) Cheap bright orange vests can be gotten at almost any hardware store or even (should you be brave enough to venture in) at Wal-Mart's. Wear a bright orange hat, too -- Dick's Sporting Goods sells an inexpensive bright orange GoreTex baseball cap that is plenty handsome for the guys and actually sort o f flattering for us girls. If I take my dog into the woods during big game hunting season, I make sure he's wearing a reflective bright orange collar and "vest" (available from Gander Mountain or Cabella's or some similar place) and keep him on a bright orange leash (leash your dog, unless your dog stays right with you and never runs away). I have also sewn bright safety orange webbing (cut from a leash) onto my pack, and you can get reflective bright orange grosgrain tape from a mailorder fabric store (can't remember the name, so Google it). Lastly, you can also get reflective bright orange or yellow items from bicycle shops.

                      During big game hunting season, the best time to hike is mid-day. Often hunters have returned to their cabins for a mid day nap, and the deer aren't usually moving much. If you do hike at night, hike in the early part of the evening and watch for the little reflective dots (thumb tacks, push pins or twist ies) that hunters, usually bow hunters, put on trees and limbs to guide them along the trail or to their favorite spot in the dark hours right before dawn.

                      Some of my best trailwork experiences have been during hunting season, when I've had a chance to meet and chat with hunters who are in the state forest and wonder what I'm doing clearing brush off the trail or scouting for a reroute. I grew up with hunters -- both my father and mother were avid hunters, my dad was twice the national president of the NRA (back in the days when the NRA was on the side of law enforcement), and I shot my one and only deer at the age of 10; so I am probably more comfortable around them than some of you. But most really are pretty nice and most don't hunt and drink. All have to pass a hunter safety course. As Jerry said (below), you really are in much more danger driving to and from the trail head than you are from being in the woods -- as long as you dress properly, with bright orange on your torso and head, so they can easily see you. And if you are on a defined trail, like the FLT, you are much safer than if you're plowing through a thicket of brush. Deer hole-up in thickets; and hunting lore says that the big white tail bucks won't go on defined trail because of our human scent being there....

                      Regardless of how you feel about hunting, if you are respectful of the hunters being there, they should have no reason to bother you, even if you walk close to their "private" stand. I would recommend not going in to really popular hunting areas, just because there is likely to be a lot of folks around. And I would recommend not going into a state forest that's right next to one of our landowners who closes his/her property during hunting season, and of course, we cannot and should not go on closed trail. But that leaves a lot of trail on state forest or posted private land (i.e., it allows hiking -- it's posted but not closed to hiking) that could, I think, be quite safely hiked during big game hunting season, if you dress appropriately and stay on the trail.

                      Lynda Rummel





                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Jerry Lazarczyk" <lazarcg1@...>
                      To: <elenderel@...>
                      Cc: <fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:15 PM
                      Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


                      >
                      >
                      > I, too, would like some ideas on where to go for some
                      > hiking on the FLT during hunting season. Or at least,
                      > some things I can do to be a little safer when I go
                      > out there. Does anyone know of any sections that are
                      > gun- and arrow-free? I think I'll go nuts if I can't
                      > hit the trails until spring!
                      >
                      > Gina Mushynsky
                      > Baldwinsville, NY
                      >
                      > Gina,
                      >
                      > By far the most dangerous parts of any huntin g or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                      >
                      > Jerry Lazarczyk
                      > Grand Island NY
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges
                      Thanks, Jon -- there s nothing like personal experience to make the point. There are wayward bullets, and there are probably errant arrows, though
                      Message 10 of 20 , Nov 21, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks, Jon -- there's nothing like personal experience to make the point.
                        There are "wayward bullets," and there are probably "errant arrows," though
                        undoubtedly fewer arrows wandering through the woods than bullets. The
                        general consensus seems to be, being out in the woods during bow season, if
                        you're dressed properly, isn't too dangerous; being out in the woods during
                        gun season is, however, possibly a little more dangerous, not only because
                        there are more hunters in the woods, but also because they are hunting
                        differently and bullets tend to fly further afield than arrows. Whether
                        either of these situations approaches the danger of being on a highway is a
                        whole 'nother question. Whatever, I am hoping this discussion helps alert
                        people to the real dangers and helps them figure out how to travel a little
                        more safely in the woods. I am also hoping that it doesn't encourage hikers
                        to put away their hiking boots for the hunting season....I'm still going out
                        there (dumb as I may be), but I'll be dressed in a bright orange vest and
                        hat, and I'll carry an orange pack decked with bright orange patches, and my
                        pooch will be dressed in a bright orange vest and on a bright orange leash,
                        and I plan on making lots of shuffling noises as I walk the trail. Just
                        remember -- don't wear a smallish amount of white (like the size of a deer's
                        tail), and don't also wear tan/beige.

                        Lynda Rummel


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Jon A Kapecki" <kapecki@...>
                        To: <EllenGT@...>
                        Cc: <ljrassoc@...>; <elenderel@...>; <lazarcg1@...>;
                        <fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 8:52 PM
                        Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


                        > I don't want to be negative about this, and I certainly have nothing
                        > whatsoever against either hunters or hunting (surplus venison gladly
                        > accepted), but I once had a bullet spang into a tree no more than a foot
                        > from my head. No, this was not on the Finger Lakes trail, but on our
                        > neighbor, the Long Trail in Vermont. I yelled, the bushes rustled, but
                        > nobody appeared.
                        >
                        > On another occassion, I found a youngster who had become separated from
                        > his father or older brother (never got that straight) who had gone to
                        > "flush game" so the kid could shoot something. The youngster became
                        > frightened and fired several shots skyward to attract attention (us,
                        > eventually). The thought of an excited kid hunkered down in the bushes
                        > waiting for game to appear did not reassure me.
                        >
                        > On that same trip (on the Black Forest Trail in PA), we met a grizzled
                        > ranger on our way out. "You boys leavin' today?" he drawled. Yes, we
                        > replied. "That's good," he said. "Tomorrow's gun season." I could imagine
                        > him mulling over the unpleasant paperwork that would accrue to him with
                        > one or two wounded (or worse) backpackers to explain.
                        >
                        > With those memories still in mind and with stories in our local paper
                        > about wounded hunters (three this week) to keep me paranoid, I've been
                        > fairly cautious about wandering out during gun season on to the hunters'
                        > turf. For the most part, I've stuck to places like those run by the
                        > Nature Conservancy, the canal towpath, state and county parks, and the
                        > like. There was a section of the FLT in the Italy Hill area where the
                        > landowner had posted against hunting, but open to hikers. Haven't been on
                        > the section for a while.
                        >
                        > Like others I've had no problems anywhere during bow season, though I do
                        > take the precaution of wearing a blaze orange plastic vest and hat.
                        >
                        > JonK
                      • Tony Preus
                        One of the points that no one has made in this exchange is that some bits of the trail are CLOSED during hunting season, because the people who own that land
                        Message 11 of 20 , Nov 22, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          One of the points that no one has made in this exchange is that some bits
                          of the trail are CLOSED during hunting season, because the people who own
                          that land don't want hikers on those trails. In some cases, they simply
                          don't want anyone there except themselves and their close personal friends
                          to minimize a) spooking the deer unexpectedly, b) hitting someone they
                          didn't know was there with a slug. We need to respect those closures for
                          the good (and future) of the trail.

                          Coming from a hunting family, and having spent a certain amount of time
                          actually hunting when i was much younger, I can assure you that there is a
                          HUGE difference between arrows and bullets. It's next to impossible to get
                          hit accidentally by an arrow because the people who are using them NEVER
                          shoot until they have a very good look at what they are shooting, and
                          arrows are quickly slowed down and stopped even by tiny twigs. People who
                          shoot bullets, however, are sometimes a little careless about what they
                          are shooting at, and bullets (especially as distinguished from shotgun
                          slugs) can carry quite a long way beyond the field of vision of the
                          shooter, even through brush.

                          tony
                          > Thanks, Jon -- there's nothing like personal experience to make the point.
                          > There are "wayward bullets," and there are probably "errant arrows,"
                          > though
                          > undoubtedly fewer arrows wandering through the woods than bullets. .

                          Tony Preus
                          Professor of Philosophy
                          Faculty Master, College-in-the-Woods
                          Secretary, Society for Ancient Greek Philosophy
                          Binghamton University, Binghamton NY 13902-6000
                        • Gerry Rising
                          ... Like Jon, I had a similar near miss some years ago while hiking along the Erie Canal. A deer slug slammed into a tree a few yards from me. Who in heaven s
                          Message 12 of 20 , Nov 22, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Jon A Kapecki wrote:

                            > I don't want to be negative about this, and I certainly have nothing
                            > whatsoever against either hunters or hunting (surplus venison gladly
                            > accepted), but I once had a bullet spang into a tree no more than a foot
                            > from my head. No, this was not on the Finger Lakes trail, but on our
                            > neighbor, the Long Trail in Vermont. I yelled, the bushes rustled, but
                            > nobody appeared.

                            Like Jon, I had a similar near miss some years ago while hiking along
                            the Erie Canal. A deer slug slammed into a tree a few yards from me.

                            Who in heaven's name allowed this rifle season? Like arrows, shotguns
                            have a limited range whereas rifle bullets go great distances. At least
                            that is what I was taught in a high school assembly eons ago in which a
                            man and woman demonstrated remarkable marksmanship and then discussed
                            the dangers of rifle shooting. They told of several very long distant
                            "accidents" with stray rifle bullets.

                            And I can tell of one other. I am from Rochester and we used to climb
                            the sand banks of Pinnacle Hills in the southeast corner of Rochester.
                            One day a friend of my brother was hit there by a rifle bullet. It
                            passed right through his hand, remarkably not hitting any bones or major
                            blood vessels. The boy was afraid to show the injury to his parents and
                            covered both sides of his hand with Band-Aids. The wound healed without
                            incident. As I think back I wonder if he wasn't fortunate not to get
                            lockjaw.--Gerry
                          • Frederick J. Carranti, P.E.
                            Rifle hunting is not new. It has been the norm in the Northern Zone (north of route 49) and in the Catskills for many years. Also permitted in Pa. fjc
                            Message 13 of 20 , Nov 22, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Rifle hunting is not new. It has been the norm in the Northern Zone (north
                              of route 49) and in the Catskills for many years. Also permitted in Pa.
                              fjc

                              Frederick J. Carranti, P.E.
                              carranti@...
                              Director, DOE-Industrial Assessment Center
                              Instructor, Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
                              Program Director, Engineering Management
                              151 Link Hall
                              Syracuse University
                              Syracuse NY 13244


                              On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 EllenGT@... wrote:

                              > Hi Concerned FLTers,
                              > My understanding is that rifles are now allowed in certain areas of the
                              > state. This is new. Everyone needs to know whether "their" favorite place is a
                              > rifle place or not.
                              > Ellen Gibson
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • David Coleman
                              Hi: Several people have mentioned that driving to/from a hike is more dangerous than being in the woods during big game hunting season. I am curious just what
                              Message 14 of 20 , Nov 22, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi:

                                Several people have mentioned that driving to/from a hike is more
                                dangerous than being in the woods during big game hunting season. I am
                                curious just what makes this more dangerous. Is it just the usual danger
                                of driving, hunting season or otherwise? Or are we talking about
                                something inherent to hunting season (and what might that be)?

                                For my two cents on where to hike, I generally stay in the county/state
                                parks or other areas off limits to hunting. But I have, on occasion,
                                gone in to hunting areas (wearing blaze orange).

                                David

                                >By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • stephanie.spittal@oprhp.state.ny.us
                                Driving is more dangerous than usual during hunting season because of all those lust-crazy deer running in front of cars. ... From:
                                Message 15 of 20 , Nov 22, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Driving is more dangerous than usual during hunting season because of
                                  all those lust-crazy deer running in front of cars.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  [mailto:fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Coleman
                                  Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:47 AM
                                  To: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season

                                  Hi:

                                  Several people have mentioned that driving to/from a hike is more
                                  dangerous than being in the woods during big game hunting season. I am
                                  curious just what makes this more dangerous. Is it just the usual danger

                                  of driving, hunting season or otherwise? Or are we talking about
                                  something inherent to hunting season (and what might that be)?

                                  For my two cents on where to hike, I generally stay in the county/state
                                  parks or other areas off limits to hunting. But I have, on occasion,
                                  gone in to hunting areas (wearing blaze orange).

                                  David

                                  >By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the
                                  drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out.
                                  Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >







                                  Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at
                                  fltc@...
                                  Yahoo! Groups Links
                                • Jerry Lazarczyk
                                  David, This phenomena had been reported in The Buffalo News and in several magazine articles. I was incredulous and saved the articles but now I cannot put my
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Nov 22, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    David,

                                    This phenomena had been reported in The Buffalo News and in several magazine articles. I was incredulous and saved the articles but now I cannot put my finger on them. The gist was the danger of teenage drivers but driving would still be one the most dangerous activities even if teenagers were banned from driving. Certainly more dangerous than being in the woods during hunting season. Incidently, most of the wounding (maiming included) and killing is within the group that is hunting (shooting each other). The problem is that the media focuses on the shootings as newsworthy but ignores the far more frequent injury accidents by automobile that occur daily.

                                    Jerry Lazarczyk
                                    Grand Island NY


                                    Hi:

                                    Several people have mentioned that driving to/from a hike is more
                                    dangerous than being in the woods during big game hunting season. I am
                                    curious just what makes this more dangerous. Is it just the usual danger
                                    of driving, hunting season or otherwise? Or are we talking about
                                    something inherent to hunting season (and what might that be)?

                                    For my two cents on where to hike, I generally stay in the county/state
                                    parks or other areas off limits to hunting. But I have, on occasion,
                                    gone in to hunting areas (wearing blaze orange).

                                    David

                                    >By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out. Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >







                                    Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  • stephanie.spittal@oprhp.state.ny.us
                                    It s all statistics. Driving is more dangerous because there are millions driving as opposed to a few hundred in he woods. Naturally there are more accidents.
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Nov 23, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      It's all statistics. Driving is more dangerous because there are
                                      millions driving as opposed to a few hundred in he woods. Naturally
                                      there are more accidents. Driving in hunting season, especially in rural
                                      areas heading for a hike, is more dangerous than other times of year
                                      because deer in rut forget any caution they may have had about crossing
                                      roads in front of cars and, driven by lust or pushed by hunters, they
                                      are on the move. Consequently, deer / car collisions are more numerous
                                      during this time period.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      [mailto:fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Lazarczyk
                                      Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:09 PM
                                      To: dcoleman@...
                                      Cc: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season



                                      David,

                                      This phenomena had been reported in The Buffalo News and in several
                                      magazine articles. I was incredulous and saved the articles but now I
                                      cannot put my finger on them. The gist was the danger of teenage
                                      drivers but driving would still be one the most dangerous activities
                                      even if teenagers were banned from driving. Certainly more dangerous
                                      than being in the woods during hunting season. Incidently, most of the
                                      wounding (maiming included) and killing is within the group that is
                                      hunting (shooting each other). The problem is that the media focuses on
                                      the shootings as newsworthy but ignores the far more frequent injury
                                      accidents by automobile that occur daily.

                                      Jerry Lazarczyk
                                      Grand Island NY


                                      Hi:

                                      Several people have mentioned that driving to/from a hike is more
                                      dangerous than being in the woods during big game hunting season. I am
                                      curious just what makes this more dangerous. Is it just the usual danger

                                      of driving, hunting season or otherwise? Or are we talking about
                                      something inherent to hunting season (and what might that be)?

                                      For my two cents on where to hike, I generally stay in the county/state
                                      parks or other areas off limits to hunting. But I have, on occasion,
                                      gone in to hunting areas (wearing blaze orange).

                                      David

                                      >By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the
                                      drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out.
                                      Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >







                                      Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at
                                      fltc@...
                                      Yahoo! Groups Links











                                      Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at
                                      fltc@...
                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Jerry Lazarczyk
                                      Stephanie, You are right it is statistics. It is not the number of accidents but the number of accidents per unit of time of everybody doing the activity. In
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Nov 23, 2005
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Stephanie,

                                        You are right it is statistics. It is not the number of accidents but the number of accidents per unit of time of everybody doing the activity. In other words, if a low participation sport like hunting is measured against a higher participation sport such as skiing, it is a fair indication of safety rather than popularity.

                                        Jerry Lazarczyk
                                        Grand Island NY



                                        It's all statistics. Driving is more dangerous because there are
                                        millions driving as opposed to a few hundred in he woods. Naturally
                                        there are more accidents. Driving in hunting season, especially in rural
                                        areas heading for a hike, is more dangerous than other times of year
                                        because deer in rut forget any caution they may have had about crossing
                                        roads in front of cars and, driven by lust or pushed by hunters, they
                                        are on the move. Consequently, deer / car collisions are more numerous
                                        during this time period.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        [mailto:fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Lazarczyk
                                        Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:09 PM
                                        To: dcoleman@...
                                        Cc: fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season



                                        David,

                                        This phenomena had been reported in The Buffalo News and in several
                                        magazine articles. I was incredulous and saved the articles but now I
                                        cannot put my finger on them. The gist was the danger of teenage
                                        drivers but driving would still be one the most dangerous activities
                                        even if teenagers were banned from driving. Certainly more dangerous
                                        than being in the woods during hunting season. Incidently, most of the
                                        wounding (maiming included) and killing is within the group that is
                                        hunting (shooting each other). The problem is that the media focuses on
                                        the shootings as newsworthy but ignores the far more frequent injury
                                        accidents by automobile that occur daily.

                                        Jerry Lazarczyk
                                        Grand Island NY


                                        Hi:

                                        Several people have mentioned that driving to/from a hike is more
                                        dangerous than being in the woods during big game hunting season. I am
                                        curious just what makes this more dangerous. Is it just the usual danger

                                        of driving, hunting season or otherwise? Or are we talking about
                                        something inherent to hunting season (and what might that be)?

                                        For my two cents on where to hike, I generally stay in the county/state
                                        parks or other areas off limits to hunting. But I have, on occasion,
                                        gone in to hunting areas (wearing blaze orange).

                                        David

                                        >By far the most dangerous parts of any hunting or hiking choice is the
                                        drive to and from. There are many, many statistics that bear this out.
                                        Just go out and enjoy your hike, you would be much safer than traveling.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >







                                        Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at
                                        fltc@...
                                        Yahoo! Groups Links











                                        Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at
                                        fltc@...
                                        Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      • Lynda Rummel & Rolf Zerges
                                        Okay, a little more flogging (sorry, Irene). This is to clarify where rifles are allowed and where they aren t: The map on p. 23 of the DEC s Hunting &
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Nov 24, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Okay, a little more flogging (sorry, Irene). This is to clarify where rifles are allowed and where they aren't:

                                          The map on p. 23 of the DEC's "Hunting & Trapping Regulations Guide 2005-2006" shows where rifles are allowed and where they aren't, for Regular Deer Season and Early and Regular Bear Season. This guide is available, free, from your friendly clerk's office, in most towns and counties. This guide also includes the dates for the various seasons in the various regions. I suspect this information is also up on the DEC website, but I haven't looked.

                                          Anyway... it is still true that for most of the FLT and our branch trails, the only hunting "implements" that are allowed are bow, muzzleloader, handgun & shotgun. Rifles are (and have been) allowed in what's called the Northern Zone -- i.e., the Adirondacks and the state's northern "hump" (the exact area is very specifically defined on p. 23). Rifles are also allowed in eastern Broome, the SE tip of Chenango, a small portion of the eastern edge of Otsego, a small portion of the western and southern edge of Schoharie, all of Delaware and all of Greene, Columbia, Rensselaer, Ulster, Sullivan, and Orange; Fulton, Saratoga, and Washington.

                                          This leaves a lot of trail where rifles are not allowed. In my opinion, hiking during bow season, if you're properly attired in safety orange on your torso and head, isn't particularly dangerous; and I will continue to hike in regular deer season, which I also personally don't think is particularly dangerous -- but I probably won't hike in areas where rifles are allowed.

                                          Also, as I did mention earlier, we all must not hike on trails that are closed during hunting season; but there are many properties where hunting is prohibited but the trail can be hiked during hunting season -- just don't hike it with a gun, as you would then be assumed to be hunting -- and be sure to check your FLT map and the FLT website Trail Conditions to see whether properties once open are now closed, or vice versa. Irene has mentioned several places where you can hike without worrying about hunters; and I would say, again, that some of the state parks have areas where hunting is not allowed or hunting is restricted -- check the particular state park regs on the OPRHP website. For example, I happen to live within walking distance of Keuka Lake State Park; hunting is prohibited entirely in some areas of the park, while bow and muzzleloader hunting are allowed elsewhere in the park. The various areas are pretty well posted, and there are explanatory signs at the entrance ways. Other parks probably operate in a similar fashion.

                                          Lynda Rummel







                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Frederick J. Carranti, P.E." <carranti@...>
                                          To: <EllenGT@...>
                                          Cc: <ljrassoc@...>; <elenderel@...>; <lazarcg1@...>; <fingerlakestrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:00 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [fingerlakestrail] hiking during hunting season


                                          > Rifle hunting is not new. It has been the norm in the Northern Zone (north
                                          > of route 49) and in the Catskills for many years. Also permitted in Pa.
                                          > fjc
                                          >
                                          > Frederick J. Carranti, P.E.
                                          > carranti@...
                                          > Director, DOE-Industrial Assessment Center
                                          > Instructor, Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
                                          > Program Director, Engineering Management
                                          > 151 Link Hall
                                          > Syracuse University
                                          > Syracuse NY 13244
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 EllenGT@... wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Hi Concerned FLTers,
                                          > > My understanding is that rifles are now allowed in certain areas of the
                                          > > state. This is new. Everyone needs to know whether "their" favorite place is a
                                          > > rifle place or not.
                                          > > Ellen Gibson
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Please report any trail condition issue directly to Howard Beye at fltc@...
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                          > >
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