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Enjoyed the Book enjoying the posts

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  • taxbill@wncol.net
    I finished reading the book about a week ago and enjoyed it very much. I have also read Finding Faith and got alot out of it too. I actually made quite a few
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 14, 2001
      I finished reading the book about a week ago and enjoyed it very
      much. I have also read Finding Faith and got alot out of it too.
      I actually made quite a few posts after reading it concerning that
      sense of losing faith or rebuilding it. When I read "finding faith"
      I was at a place where I would have loved to have found something
      that would spell it all out points A,B,C... Just tell me what to
      believe. But at the same time would have rejected anything that
      would have tried to nail faith to the wall in a neat modern box.
      Over all I have come to the conclusion that I am on a faith journey
      and rather than looking for that moment of arrival I'm going to enjoy
      the process of finding God. The big scary questions that your not
      even suppose to ask(for example the inerrancy of scripture)continue
      to be important to me but at the same time I find myself going ahead
      and being honest with at least myself and God that I do have the
      questions. I am working on finding a faith community where I have
      the freedom to ask the questions admit I struggle with the answers,
      yet still am accepted as a believer. (I was recently told by someone
      that they didn't think I could be a Christian if I didn't believe in
      the absolute inerrancy of scripture) One thing that I have been
      struck by is that the tendency to want to bag thoughts ideas or
      theologies. Tag them and call it done. Only prob is that you don't
      have to look far to find someone who will tell you that you have the
      wrong thing in the bag. The preacher A at 9:00 contradicting
      preacher B at 10:00 idea that was talked about in the book. I guess
      what this leads me to believe is that unless you shut your brain off
      there are no universally "bagged" answers. Does this mean the
      answers just are not really that important to me or lack meaning? No
      They are very important but until there is some kind of spiritual
      scientific method they won't be bagged.
      Recently I have been attending a church service that is liturgical
      and have found this to be very meaningful to me for several reasons.
      One because it goes to the basics of my faith. We are sinners we need
      Jesus, if we ask for forgiveness we get it. It keeps me focused on
      the important parts.

      I've enjoyed reading all of the more recent posts about labling and
      about post modern thought verses modern thought etc etc...
      I think we like to label because it makes us feel safe and because it
      helps us to know where a person is coming from in what they say.
      Unfortunately it causes us to dismiss what a person says or thinks
      before we have really fully heard it and thought it through.
      My head is put together in a way that well simply put I think ALOT
      like all the time. I'd love to figure it all out. That's not to say
      my thoughts are deep and complex. Sometimes I get on the net and surf
      sites on theology and philosophy and at times I think ok this has
      just surpassed my ability to easily track and understand. These
      people have really BIG brains. Wow! Then I am struck by the fact that
      even though I think alot and really enjoy thinking through what I
      believe and why I believe it; the Gospel was and is ment for EVERYONE
      for the illiterate, and nonreading for those who are not sceptics
      questioning everything that comes their way. If we must become like
      little children then it must have very little to do with my ability
      to figure it all out, and much more simple than we make it at times.
      I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though I at times feel
      like Jacob ( I think ) wrestling with God not willing to let go; it's
      because that is how I'm put together. I can't help it. Somtimes
      being a "modern" or a "postmodern" is as much an issue of personality
      as it is a cultural change. That is not to say that the modern does
      not wrestle with God but rather that some people just don't care
      (about the issues, the quetions, about whether or not they are modern
      or post modern) and that is ok. In fact it may be a blessing. I have
      lots of questions that I would love not to have just because it had
      not dawned on me to have those questions. Anyway enough rambling for
      now.
      Connie
    • Caroline Wong
      Dear Connie; That s so true that the gospel is meant for everybody. And I love the fact that it is both simple and complex. In fact, I love the fact that
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 14, 2001
        Dear Connie;

        That's so true that the gospel is meant for everybody. And I love the fact
        that it is both simple and complex. In fact, I love the fact that
        Christianity is full of paradoxes.

        Tonight, my friend was reading exerpts of a newspaper article to me about
        how this scholar believed the bible was basically a man-made book and not a
        revelation from God. I was thinking if I made up a religion, I'd make one
        up with a lot less contradictions and difficulties!

        Tertullian says I believe because it's absurd. So do I.

        Caroline

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <taxbill@...>
        To: <findingfaith@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: July 15, 2001 12:55 AM
        Subject: Enjoyed the Book enjoying the posts


        > I finished reading the book about a week ago and enjoyed it very
        > much. I have also read Finding Faith and got alot out of it too.
        > I actually made quite a few posts after reading it concerning that
        > sense of losing faith or rebuilding it. When I read "finding faith"
        > I was at a place where I would have loved to have found something
        > that would spell it all out points A,B,C... Just tell me what to
        > believe. But at the same time would have rejected anything that
        > would have tried to nail faith to the wall in a neat modern box.
        > Over all I have come to the conclusion that I am on a faith journey
        > and rather than looking for that moment of arrival I'm going to enjoy
        > the process of finding God. The big scary questions that your not
        > even suppose to ask(for example the inerrancy of scripture)continue
        > to be important to me but at the same time I find myself going ahead
        > and being honest with at least myself and God that I do have the
        > questions. I am working on finding a faith community where I have
        > the freedom to ask the questions admit I struggle with the answers,
        > yet still am accepted as a believer. (I was recently told by someone
        > that they didn't think I could be a Christian if I didn't believe in
        > the absolute inerrancy of scripture) One thing that I have been
        > struck by is that the tendency to want to bag thoughts ideas or
        > theologies. Tag them and call it done. Only prob is that you don't
        > have to look far to find someone who will tell you that you have the
        > wrong thing in the bag. The preacher A at 9:00 contradicting
        > preacher B at 10:00 idea that was talked about in the book. I guess
        > what this leads me to believe is that unless you shut your brain off
        > there are no universally "bagged" answers. Does this mean the
        > answers just are not really that important to me or lack meaning? No
        > They are very important but until there is some kind of spiritual
        > scientific method they won't be bagged.
        > Recently I have been attending a church service that is liturgical
        > and have found this to be very meaningful to me for several reasons.
        > One because it goes to the basics of my faith. We are sinners we need
        > Jesus, if we ask for forgiveness we get it. It keeps me focused on
        > the important parts.
        >
        > I've enjoyed reading all of the more recent posts about labling and
        > about post modern thought verses modern thought etc etc...
        > I think we like to label because it makes us feel safe and because it
        > helps us to know where a person is coming from in what they say.
        > Unfortunately it causes us to dismiss what a person says or thinks
        > before we have really fully heard it and thought it through.
        > My head is put together in a way that well simply put I think ALOT
        > like all the time. I'd love to figure it all out. That's not to say
        > my thoughts are deep and complex. Sometimes I get on the net and surf
        > sites on theology and philosophy and at times I think ok this has
        > just surpassed my ability to easily track and understand. These
        > people have really BIG brains. Wow! Then I am struck by the fact that
        > even though I think alot and really enjoy thinking through what I
        > believe and why I believe it; the Gospel was and is ment for EVERYONE
        > for the illiterate, and nonreading for those who are not sceptics
        > questioning everything that comes their way. If we must become like
        > little children then it must have very little to do with my ability
        > to figure it all out, and much more simple than we make it at times.
        > I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though I at times feel
        > like Jacob ( I think ) wrestling with God not willing to let go; it's
        > because that is how I'm put together. I can't help it. Somtimes
        > being a "modern" or a "postmodern" is as much an issue of personality
        > as it is a cultural change. That is not to say that the modern does
        > not wrestle with God but rather that some people just don't care
        > (about the issues, the quetions, about whether or not they are modern
        > or post modern) and that is ok. In fact it may be a blessing. I have
        > lots of questions that I would love not to have just because it had
        > not dawned on me to have those questions. Anyway enough rambling for
        > now.
        > Connie
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • Chris G Criminger
        Good post Connie :-) I would like to ask your friend, read the very technical and long Chicago declaration article on Innerancy and then tell me where does
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 15, 2001
          Good post Connie :-) I would like to ask your friend, read the very
          technical and long Chicago declaration article on Innerancy and then tell
          me where does it say in the Bible that you have to believe that and If
          you don't you are not a Christian??? (I like turning questions back on
          people-----------I know, I am such a stinker :-)

          Grace and Peace - Chris Criminger
          Vallonia Indiana



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        • Bill Hutchins
          Chris, I doubt that my friend has read the Chicago statement on Innerrancy, but I have and found it to be (no disrespect intended) a very humorous experience.
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 18, 2001
            Chris,
            I doubt that my friend has read the Chicago statement on Innerrancy, but I
            have and found it to be (no disrespect intended) a very humorous experience.
            First off your right it claims not need to believe in innerancy for
            salvation but really pushes the importance of it, but then makes it clear
            that belief in innerancy does not necessarily mean your life will look any
            more together than those who don't believe. Secondly it seemed to only hold
            to inerrancy only to the extent that the translation held to the original
            text. That's great now all I have to do is get my hands on an original text
            learn a few dead languages really well and compare it to the translation.
            Or I could just trust the translators who probably disagree with each other
            on 100 subtle points. Thirdly the copy of the Chicago statement that I found
            on the Internet was well, I think, errant, so I'm not entirely sure of
            exactly what they meant one place said "rather that" and I think they meant
            "rather than" another place said "of" and I think that they meant "for" .
            Maybe I could find an original text = )
            I recently read a quote that went something like this " The biggest problem
            I have with communication is over comming the illusion that it has occured"
            Connie
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Chris G Criminger" <cccriminger@...>
            To: <findingfaith@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 10:43 AM
            Subject: Re: Enjoyed the Book enjoying the posts


            > Good post Connie :-) I would like to ask your friend, read the very
            > technical and long Chicago declaration article on Innerancy and then tell
            > me where does it say in the Bible that you have to believe that and If
            > you don't you are not a Christian??? (I like turning questions back on
            > people-----------I know, I am such a stinker :-)
            >
            > Grace and Peace - Chris Criminger
            > Vallonia Indiana
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________________________________________
            > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
            > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
            > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
            > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
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