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A New Kind of Christian

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  • tlittleton@snowhill.org
    Dear Brian, I was not disappointed with A New Kind of Christian. Having read Church on the Other Side , I looked forward to anything you tossed out to us. I
    Message 1 of 10 , May 10, 2001
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      Dear Brian,

      I was not disappointed with "A New Kind of Christian." Having
      read "Church on the Other Side", I looked forward to anything you
      tossed out to us. I am actually a latecomer to the "Finding Faith"
      group. I began receiving the responses to this book and
      dropped "Finding Faith" and picked up a copy of "A New Kind of
      Christian." (Now finished I am finishing Finding Faith)I will echo
      what has been written - you have put into words what I have been
      thinking and preaching for some time.

      I do have one question. Is it necessary to draw your conclusions only
      from an "Open Theism" worldview? A previous post seemed to draw that
      inference. I have been drawing these conclusions from a classical
      theistic worldview. This very issue kept me up for three nights
      wrestling. Just about to drop off, wearied from wrestling with such a
      great book, the thought came to me that if we are not careful in the
      postmodern transition we will indeed create a God in our image. The
      beauty of the ancient is a return to mystery. Our discomfort with
      suffering and evil and the doubt it brings forces us to consider some
      mystery. It seems to me that if not careful we make our experience
      the determinate factor in our understanding of God and thereby must
      lesson the role of Scripture reading us and incarnating in us.

      I look forward to spiritual conversations. Thank you for the
      opportunity.

      Todd Littleton
    • briancrcc@aol.com
      Hi, Todd -- Thanks for your encouraging words. Regarding Open Theism -- I agree with you ... I don t think it s the only way to go. Biblically speaking,
      Message 2 of 10 , May 10, 2001
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        Hi, Todd --

        Thanks for your encouraging words.  Regarding "Open Theism" -- I agree with
        you ... I don't think it's "the only way to go."  Biblically speaking, I read
        some passages that seem more in synch with the Open Theism approach, and
        others that seem more to emphasize God's complete knowledge of the future and
        more direct control of events.  Where I find two views in Scripture, I try to
        maintain an openness to both of them, maybe suspending judgment or proceeding
        with a sense of mystery.  Sometimes one view is a kind of corrective to
        possible excesses of the other.  Maybe it's a "paradoxy" thing.  When it
        comes to figuring out the way God relates with the universe, I think we can
        "get our heads into it," but I don't think we can "get it all into our
        heads," if you know what I mean.  Psalm 131 comes to mind.

        I am glad that the Open Theism approach helps deconstruct the "modern machine
        operator" model of God.  As Dan says in the book ... this may not be such a
        compliment to God after all, even though it was in a sense the highest
        compliment of high modernity.  Part of this whole postmodern transition
        involves, I think, a post-mechanistic view of the universe, and of God.  So,
        I think there may be other ways to show respect for God's sovereignty, power,
        knowledge, creation, etc., apart from a deterministic, "machine operator"
        view.  Again, I think of Psalm 131 ... sometimes our problem isn't that we
        know too little, but that we "know" too much, you know?

        HTH -- Brian
      • Pastor Todd
        Hello Brian, I am helped by your reply. I do like the two phrases you use - . . . but I don t think we can get it all into our heads. and . . . that we
        Message 3 of 10 , May 10, 2001
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          Hello Brian,
           
          I am helped by your reply. I do like the two phrases you use - ". . . but I don't think we can 'get it all into our heads.'" and " . . . that we can 'know' too much." (I realize that grammatically an English professor would definitely want to deconstruct that ugly complex sentence.) You raise likely the most complex part of the whole issue. I come from a tradition that is steeped in mechanistic everything. I love the challenge to "desconstruct" so that we can find the liveliness of following Jesus - the vivid interaction with the Creator - and at the same time the majestic awe of "I don't know. It's too wonderful for me." Reminds me of the fictional retelling of your true story about the young boy who wanted to follow Jesus but not be a "born-again." Let's find the adventure of following Jesus again and dispense with the mechanics - let's see God's Spirit lead the way!
           
          So, what's next? You tackle the church and postmodernity, those searching for faith in the midst of this transition and now following Jesus during the transition. Where will you take us on this continuing adventure? There are many of us out here who long for the kind of mindbending, soul searching challenge you offer. I must tell you I have not wrestled with a book as much with mabye the exception of Willard's, Divine Conspiracy. I do hope the gang at Youth Specialities invites you back next year for the National Pastor's Convention in San Diego.
           
          Have a great Sunday - Dan. Or is it Neo. Or maybe a little of both.
           
          A fellow adventurer.
           
          Todd Littleton
          -----Original Message-----
          From: briancrcc@... [mailto:briancrcc@...]
          Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 2:18 PM
          To: findingfaith@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: A New Kind of Christian

          Hi, Todd --

          Thanks for your encouraging words.  Regarding "Open Theism" -- I agree with
          you ... I don't think it's "the only way to go."  Biblically speaking, I read
          some passages that seem more in synch with the Open Theism approach, and
          others that seem more to emphasize God's complete knowledge of the future and
          more direct control of events.  Where I find two views in Scripture, I try to
          maintain an openness to both of them, maybe suspending judgment or proceeding
          with a sense of mystery.  Sometimes one view is a kind of corrective to
          possible excesses of the other.  Maybe it's a "paradoxy" thing.  When it
          comes to figuring out the way God relates with the universe, I think we can
          "get our heads into it," but I don't think we can "get it all into our
          heads," if you know what I mean.  Psalm 131 comes to mind.

          I am glad that the Open Theism approach helps deconstruct the "modern machine
          operator" model of God.  As Dan says in the book ... this may not be such a
          compliment to God after all, even though it was in a sense the highest
          compliment of high modernity.  Part of this whole postmodern transition
          involves, I think, a post-mechanistic view of the universe, and of God.  So,
          I think there may be other ways to show respect for God's sovereignty, power,
          knowledge, creation, etc., apart from a deterministic, "machine operator"
          view.  Again, I think of Psalm 131 ... sometimes our problem isn't that we
          know too little, but that we "know" too much, you know?

          HTH -- Brian


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        • briancrcc@aol.com
          Todd -- thanks again for your kind words. Regarding ... ... -- I just thought I should say, for the record (for this e-group archive) that both Dan and Neo
          Message 4 of 10 , May 11, 2001
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            Todd -- thanks again for your kind words.  Regarding ...

            Have a great Sunday - Dan. Or is it Neo. Or maybe a little of both.



            -- I just thought I should say, for the record (for this e-group archive)
            that both Dan and Neo reflect some of me that I'm "proud" of, some of me I'm
            not proud of, some of a lot of other people too, plus some made-up fiction.

            It's great to see conversation flowing here at the findingfaith group again.
            -- Brian
          • Dave Weber
            I just finished reading A New Kind of Christian. I am writing this note for a couple of reasons. First of all, I wanted to thank you, Bryan, for another
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 25, 2001
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              I just finished reading "A New Kind of Christian." I am
              writing this note for a couple of reasons. First of all, I
              wanted to thank you, Bryan, for another great book. I was so
              sorry for it to come to the end...I wanted it to keep going. I
              actually think that was your intent. It does keep going doesn't
              it?...each day that we live and interact with God and with each
              other.

              My second reason for writing it to encourage those who bought
              the book but for whatever reason haven't read it yet or
              completed it. After reading and loving "Finding Faith," I
              anxiously awaited the arrival of the new book. The Introduction
              chapter only added to my excitement. But for some reason I kind
              of stalled out by the end of chapter 4. It was clear to me that
              Dan was struggling with his faith...but it wasn't clear to me
              why or about what specifically. Not knowing anything about
              postmodernism, I couldn't understand how Neo was going to help
              Dan. I put the book down for about 3 weeks.

              I'd like to thank several of you who wrote to this group and
              expressed how much the book meant to you. This was a reminder
              to me to pick it back up. I'm happy to say that did just
              that...and once I got into chapter 5 and beyond, it was hard to
              put down.

              I plan to write at another time about some of the specific
              things that spoke to me in the book. But I gotta ask: was I
              not paying attention in 1998 when DC United won the World Cup?
              I must have missed that one. :-)

              Thanks again, Bryan!

              Dave Weber




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              mailto:davideweber@...
              http://www.mp3.com/DaveWeber

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            • Matt Lilly
              I am also on the last pages of New Kind of Christian. Maybe I am stalling finishing because I too am not wanting to end that which has brought so much pleasure
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 26, 2001
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                I am also on the last pages of New Kind of Christian. Maybe I am stalling
                finishing because I too am not wanting to end that which has brought so much
                pleasure and challenge.

                As an evangelical of 18 years, I feel like I need to take a 3 month break to
                re-examine my theology. What Brian said made a lot of sense, but with
                anything that is of real significance in life (i.e. my faith), it deserves
                study and reflection. I feel like I'm Dan at about chapter 8.

                Matt

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Dave Weber [mailto:davideweber@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2001 15:18
                To: findingfaith@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: A New Kind of Christian


                I just finished reading "A New Kind of Christian." I am
                writing this note for a couple of reasons. First of all, I
                wanted to thank you, Bryan, for another great book. I was so
                sorry for it to come to the end...I wanted it to keep going. I
                actually think that was your intent. It does keep going doesn't
                it?...each day that we live and interact with God and with each
                other.

                My second reason for writing it to encourage those who bought
                the book but for whatever reason haven't read it yet or
                completed it. After reading and loving "Finding Faith," I
                anxiously awaited the arrival of the new book. The Introduction
                chapter only added to my excitement. But for some reason I kind
                of stalled out by the end of chapter 4. It was clear to me that
                Dan was struggling with his faith...but it wasn't clear to me
                why or about what specifically. Not knowing anything about
                postmodernism, I couldn't understand how Neo was going to help
                Dan. I put the book down for about 3 weeks.

                I'd like to thank several of you who wrote to this group and
                expressed how much the book meant to you. This was a reminder
                to me to pick it back up. I'm happy to say that did just
                that...and once I got into chapter 5 and beyond, it was hard to
                put down.

                I plan to write at another time about some of the specific
                things that spoke to me in the book. But I gotta ask: was I
                not paying attention in 1998 when DC United won the World Cup?
                I must have missed that one. :-)

                Thanks again, Bryan!

                Dave Weber




                =====
                Dave Weber
                mailto:davideweber@...
                http://www.mp3.com/DaveWeber

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
                http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/



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              • briancrcc@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/26/01 2:08:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... That was wishful thinking. After all, this is fiction!!! I figured I could indulge my
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 26, 2001
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                  In a message dated 6/26/01 2:08:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  davideweber@... writes:


                  But I gotta ask:  was I
                  not paying attention in 1998 when DC United won the World Cup?
                  I must have missed that one. :-)



                  That was wishful thinking.  After all, this is fiction!!!  I figured I could
                  indulge my wishes....  Thanks for your kind words, everyone.  -- Brian
                • Stephen Shields
                  Hi all, I ve posted a number of book reviews and articles related to Brian s A New Kind of Christian under McLaren s A New Kind of Christian which is under
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 12, 2002
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                    Hi all,

                    I've posted a number of book reviews and articles related to Brian's A New
                    Kind of Christian under

                    McLaren's A New Kind of Christian

                    which is under

                    Postmodernism and its Impact on Evangelicalism

                    @

                    http://www.faithmaps.org/pomophilarticles.htm

                    I'm cross-posting this note to Finding Faith, faithmaps, and NKOC, so some
                    of you will not doubt get it more than once!


                    Stephen Shields
                    sshields@...
                    http://www.faithmaps.org
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps/
                    "tools for navigating theology,
                    leadership, discipleship and
                    church life in postmodernity"
                    over 500 links and articles




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